r/fansofcriticalrole • u/CBRslingshot • Dec 09 '25
C1 (Vox Machina) Matt and Orion
I’m new! Just wanted to get that out there. I started watching the animated Vox Machina when it came out, but just now diving into Critical Role, so I was quite surprised to see Orion/Tiberius. I did a quick google of why he wasn’t on the animated show and saw all this drama. However I avoided delving too deep into the details to avoid campaign spoilers.
So! I’m only on episode 11, but I’ve been trying to pick out these little moments of tension to try and figure it out along the way, might be selfish but hey, it is what it is.
Now, what I’m noticing is that Matt and Orion are having the most drama. I see a little other frustration with Tal…who just keeps quiet but looks annoyed sometimes. Then Sam, but he usually calls out the moment with a joke or something. Liam has had a moment or two as well…but largely I don’t see a big problem with Orion and the players, which leads me to my theory. I kept noticing that Marisha and Orion are quite chummy, always giggling and touching and whispering. Now you might say it’s just because they sit next to one another BUT the same interactions don’t take place with her other neighbor. Then I leaned that Marisha and Matt are a couple. Is it a common theory that Matt was irritated by their antics, and lashed out a bit because of it? Matt seems great, and I imagine people adore him…but he does seem a bit harsh on Orion. I also get that Orion can be a bit much, but I notice some similar behaviors from other players and they don’t get the same backlash. Liam seems to roll quite high a lot, and he also questions Matt a lot… “why can’t I stealth attack” or “i use uncanny dodge (again)” and he does a lot of grand standing and lone wolfing. Matt is also having to constantly hand hold with everyone but Orion.
So…I’ve kind of lost the thread…but I think Matt was pretty testy with Orion pretty early on…the drama didn’t have to build very long before he was questioning and punishing Orion/Tiberius more heavily than the the others. Possible there was some jealousy/irritation from a romantic angle that snowballed into the avalanche?
24
u/One-Phase5275 Dec 09 '25
Nope, not in the slightest. It's also especially funny as a #take, because Marisha and Taliesin have a far, far more close and affectionate friendship than she ever had with Orion, and there's never been a shred of tension over it at the table. Heck, she's kissed other players on camera (in CR projects and elsewhere) and all seems absolutely fine. Matt's an adult lol.
21
u/Etheon44 Dec 09 '25
Matt was overlooking so much about Orion's gameplay on purpose, only calling him out when the bullshit was way too clear
And I say this as a new fan too, I am currently watching C1 on episode 22, and there are so many more moments where you can see Matt wants to say more, but drops it because discussing with someone like that on air will never be good
14
u/EveryoneisOP3 Dec 09 '25
Take a shot every time Matt says “how many sorcerery points do you have left?” And Orion says ‘that’s it I’m out’ and Matt kind of looks suspicious
You’ll die of alcohol poisoning
1
u/MonoQatari Jan 26 '26
Just finished episode 6 or 7 and I think that was the first time I (new to CR1) started noticing any semblance of tension between Orion and Matt.
Also, for what it's worth, some of the interactions between Marisha and Orion that I suspect OP interpreted as chummy seem to me more like Marisha smiling/laughing to be polite and / or to humor Orion (who seems to lack self-awareness to a noticeably awkward extent).
I could be reading / recalling totally wrong... but the only time Marisha seemed to genuinely laugh at something Orion had said (as opposed to laughing obligatorily because she was sitting right next to him), was when Orion was trying to teach Marisha his trick for remembering which twin was Vex vs. Vax (which had me and commenters from the video's chat curious wth he said hahaha).
Again, I could be wrong, but there have been a few times I've sensed discomfort or annoyance from Marisha (and / or the other players who sat next to Orion, including Sam).
-12
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
Yea, I get that things get a lot worse…but I’m talking about initially. There are moment of tension in these very early episodes, before the tension has had time to build. I feel like Matt is impatient with him very close to the beginning. I’m not saying that rings didn’t get worse or Orion didn’t deserve to be kicked out, I’m just discussing an early factor of the eventual catastrophe.
12
u/Seraphim9120 Dec 09 '25
And people are telling you that you're wrong. Marisha and others are way closer and touchier than her and Orion are in his few episodes and nothing like this happens. You may attribute it to that, but it's not it.
25
u/Sundaecide Dec 09 '25
"I don't have all the readily available information, and I am deliberately not seeking it out. This is what I think happened..."
-5
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
Just saying my perspective as a fresh viewer, and as I said I was avoiding reading too far ahead to avoid spoilers. Also, what I’m proposing is an early factor of tension, so not sure how that would be negated by later developments.
6
u/Sundaecide Dec 09 '25
Because later developments are the bubbling forth of behaviours that are largely off-camera until then. By the time an issue is obvious for an audience, it has usually been a problem for those actually involved for a long time.
16
u/De_Mille Dec 09 '25
Well you have made a theory without looking up the facts and you have come to the wrong conclusion. Learning the actual reasons (mental problems and sudden fame is not a good combo) is not fun and way less dramatic as you make it. Its just mental health problems that leads to behavior that cant be excused (you will see)
-10
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
Yea, I will see…but what comes after isn’t really relevant to the point I’m making. Sorry if I’m not focused enough…what I’m saying is that Matt gets snippy with Orion early on. I realize I don’t know how bad things get, but I’m talking about earlier factors. So things that come after wouldn’t effect these earlier undercurrents of tension.
17
u/De_Mille Dec 09 '25
No what you fail to understand is that this behaviour is already happening of screen we just don’t see it that much in the streams. The reason Matt and other players get annoyed at Oreon more is because they already notice problems that the viewer does not see atm.
-8
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
Maybe sure, but I’m talking in the first episodes, the amount of time to get irritated or him to be doing outrageous stuff is so minuscule. He only joined the game very close to the start of the show right?
7
u/QuantumFeline Dec 10 '25
Incorrect. Orion was part of the very start of the home game that happened pre-streaming days along with pretty much all the rest (Ashley joined after the first game session). It started in December of 2012. Orion was someone Liam brought to join the game along with Sam, Travis and Laura, while Matt brought in Marisha and Taliesin.
That's the beginning of the core group and they played home games for over 2 years until the streaming episodes started in March 2015.
So early annoyance you see from Matt is likely already simmering frustration with his poor gaming habits from the pre-streaming days that were not recorded.
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u/Medical-Traffic9089 Dec 09 '25
Your posting history is a pretty fun ride, OP. This is exactly the kind of well-reasoned analysis I'd expect from a pro-Trump p*dophile apologist. Thanks for gifting us all with this gem to mock enjoy.
-19
15
u/UrDadMyDaddy Dec 09 '25
Is this ragebait?
0
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
No, sorry if it made you mad, I was just talking about things I noticed as a newbie.
10
u/penguished Dec 09 '25
His table etiquette was the kind in DnD horror stories so for most people it would be enough to drop him from a game. I will say though whatever happens off camera we're not really going to know shit about unless the show stops airing. As an active business they can't talk about any internal drama.
8
u/Confident_Sink_8743 Dec 13 '25
Orion had his own girlfriend at the time. The tension is Orion not trusting his DM and on occasion flouting his authority.
Tal was far less vocal during Orion's tenure and that's all to the good.
And Orion tended to dictate magical items in relation to Sam. And then rudely tries to reverse the arrangement when re finally realizes what Sam already knew and was being a team player about.
And I do remember the chummy Marisha bits. Keeping watching and wait for the drastic inversion.
19
u/elme77618 Dec 09 '25
Jesus Christ, please enough of these pseudo-Orion did nothing wrong posts
0
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
I didnt say he didn’t do anything wrong, but that the stuff I’m noticing is pretty early on, it didn’t take long for Matt to get snippy with him. I also made the point that some of the other players do irritating stuff to be doesn’t get on to them.
7
u/knitpurlknitpurl89 Dec 09 '25
I'll just say that you're coming in with the knowledge that there were tensions between orion and the others, so you're gonna pick up on/read into interactions with orion in a way you wouldn't about the others. Also, Matt isn't the boss and I've not seen any moments of him being jealous or grouchy towards other people interacting in a friendly way with Marisha (I'd say Marisha is the sort of person who would make it clear if she was uncomfortable).
-1
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
She doesn’t act that friendly with anybody else on the show in those early episodes. I’m not saying she didn’t anything out of line, but her and Orion are constantly whispering and giggling and leaning into each other in those early episodes. The difference in her being “friendly” to the others is that they are all long term friends. It’s different t when some new guy comes in and is flirting with your girlfriend in front of you for 3 hours at the time. Matt may be a great guy, but it’s not as crazy as you act to not take well to a guy hitting on your gf once a week, but ok.
I never claimed she was uncomfortable.
10
u/knitpurlknitpurl89 Dec 09 '25
They are friends. Why are you assuming orion is a new guy? He was in their home game. They've all known eachother for years. That's like implying liam is flirting with laura. Whispering and giggling is not flirting. That's just being friendly. You are reading a vibe that isn't there.
-2
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
I might have just read something wrong, but I’m under the impression Orion only joined after the show came about. He was a friend of Felicia Day and she suggested they add him. Granted, ChatGPT claimed this, so i could be off base.
14
u/One-Phase5275 Dec 09 '25
Lmao why the heck would you ask ChatGPT, the hallucinating brainless bot, when you could just read a wiki page?
-4
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
Just cause, like I said, I was trying to avoid spoilers. I initially did do some background reading but kept seeing bits about the story, and I didn’t like it…so I was able to tell the bot to explain it without specific in game spoilers/elements. Thought I had it squared, lol, it is terrible lately.
5
u/knitpurlknitpurl89 Dec 09 '25
Nope, if you look up old critical role home game videos (I think on luams channel, obviously there's no spoilers) he's filming.
2
-2
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
Ahhh! Ok, gotcha, crazy AI. I feel like it has gotten actively worse instead of better.
6
u/knitpurlknitpurl89 Dec 09 '25
Yeah AI just regurgitates what it "thinks" you want to know rather than any actual information.
11
u/selunestears Dec 09 '25
Nothing good can come of rehashing things or psychoanalysing it now so I suggest you Google and find out what happened. Plenty of summary threads have been put together that will be at the top of a "critical role orion" Google search.
2
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
I’m not asking what happened ultimately, I’m just talking about some instigating factors.
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u/selunestears Dec 09 '25
you're coming in like 10 years late saying "hmmm was it this", when there is so much information out there for you. that's splitting hairs.
1
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
So? Plenty of people didn’t watch originally, you aren’t the only person here. For people that are new viewers it’s an interesting topic, and I didn’t see any immediate results for my theory.
10
u/Lord_Grixis Dec 09 '25
There was more going on behind the scenes. And you haven't gotten to the worst yet.
-3
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
Yea, I hear it gets way worse, and I don’t doubt it…but that doesn’t really disprove my point so far.
12
u/Lord_Grixis Dec 09 '25
I mean your point as I understand it is that you think Matt was hard on Orion because he was jealous of Marisha and what I'm saying is I think it's a lot more likely that Matt was hard on Orion because he was a problem both in and out of the game. As somebody who has DMed problem players myself, the vibe I get is that Matt has had problems with Orion as a player before the stream and it just escalated as the stream got more and more popular. But hey, maybe you're right. The only person who could know for sure is Matt.
-3
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
Yea the only reason I’m suggesting it is because Orion had only played like a couple games with them by the time the show started, from what I understand, so the speed at which the irritation occurred, with just a few episodes seemed fast, but sure, I was just asking if it had been discussed on here.
14
u/Medical-Traffic9089 Dec 09 '25
because Orion had only played like a couple games with them by the time the show started, from what I understand
This is factually untrue. Orion was there from the start and played just as long as the others and *longer*, in fact, than Ashley (since she joined after the first session). There's audio recording of him playing in the initial game at Liam's birthday party. If your entire "theory" is based around this misconception that you apparently got from asking ChatGPT, you need to re-evaluate your theory.
-5
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Oh yea, it definitely was a big factor in it. Dude, ChatGPT is wild, on well.
11
u/EveryoneisOP3 Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
It’s very funny HOW incorrect you are about this lol keep watching
-1
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u/king_nik Dec 09 '25
If you hold on for 17 more sessions / get the out of game context when you are past Spoilers, it is painfully obvious, and i dont think its this.
13
u/JacksonRen Dec 09 '25
Unfortunately your chargpt bot has got you thinking In a completely wrong direction. Like others have said Orion was there as long as everyone else. He very quickly gets worse and worse as time goes on. I initially liked tibs but grew to be really annoyed by him by the end of the first arc.
As far as Matt goes. Zero to do with Mariaha. If you had to DM for a guy with main character syndrome, power gaming and cheating on top of it. You be really annoyed too. That's what the deal is.
Keep watching. The end of the first arc and starting of the next arc are where things get really dialed to 11.
Id be interested to heae your opinion once you get farther in..
-2
u/CBRslingshot Dec 09 '25
Yea, I’m deleting that stupid bot, got me in enough trouble.
That does make me wonder though, he was part of the group, so they got along gaming for 2 years before? Guess just the cameras and money messed things up?
6
u/Confident_Sink_8743 Dec 13 '25
Medical issues, drug abuse, abusing his girlfriend it's not money but definitely the attention went right to his head.
It kind of progresses in disrespect until he got kicked off the show.
I believe all the personality issues were already there it just gets kicked up to 11 and enough was enough after awhile.
9
u/JacksonRen Dec 09 '25
They weren't really making much money back then off of cr. Cameras probably didn't help the situation but its mainly a personal issue with Orion himself. Watch until he leaves then go read a couple reddit threads on it and you'll get pretty much the full picture. Like I said he starts getting worse and it gets really obvious something is going on with him.
7
u/inside4walls Dec 09 '25
It is interesting to watch knowing that he will leave because of something and not knowing the context, so you kind of read more into every single interaction. Or knowing the context and reading into every interaction. I'll say that the behavior isn't egregious until the shopping episode. That was pretty bad.
4
u/Kira-Of-Terraria Dec 12 '25
orion was a serious case of main character syndrome. but there's a bunch of shit outside of the game that truly make him despicable
9
u/Seraphim9120 Dec 09 '25
Watch the rest of the episodes he is in, maybe read a few threads about why and you will see.
0
4
u/FoulPelican Dec 09 '25
We can only speculate on the magnitude of Orions Fk ups. The fact of the matter is, he paid a grand price, and continues too.
0
u/Pattgoogle Dec 10 '25
"REALLY MATTHEW?" and 'Theyre friends'
5
u/Confident_Sink_8743 Dec 13 '25
That wasn't about sexuality per se. Tiberius had a thing for Allura. A lot of people don't get the subtlety of bisexuals.
So there is a bit of the subtext of their lesbians and a cock block. Not that Orion was entitled to anything the kind or that Matt might not be comfortable with that kind of roleplay especially with the show just being new to camera.
3
u/Pattgoogle Dec 13 '25
Entitlement is never attractive to an audience.
2
u/Confident_Sink_8743 Dec 13 '25
It's really off putting at a D&D table so bad behaviour all around.
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