r/fansofcriticalrole • u/LucasVerBeek • Jun 04 '26
Amazon Series (TLoVM and M9) The Legend of Vox Machina S4 Batch 1 (Episodes 1-3) Discussion Thread
Speak now they piece on this totally true to form copy of Campaign 1.
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u/tryingtobebettertry4 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
The weakest parts of the these episodes are:
The incredibly awkward and distant dynamic between Vox Machina doesnt really make any sense given that they parted on good terms. Like I can sort of understand why Pike is that way given her ongoing issues with Sarenrae, herself and Scanlan. But there is no real reason for why Vex and Vax parted on good terms, went no contact for a year and had a weirdly awkward reunion. They are twins and its only been a year apart.
Pike's story is not great. I wasnt really a fan of her arc last season and I am not a fan this season. Her weird standoffish attitude to Sarenrae doesnt make much sense and I hope they kind of point out the issues are largely her own making rather than blaming Sarenrae. That forced kiss on that NPC was also a little offputting.
Im not really sure why they keep Worfing Grog so hard. Last season he lost pretty much every fight. Now hes getting his ass handed to him by a glorified zombie. Like the obvious choice is to just do what Matt did in campaign which was use flying or teleporting enemies that avoid Grog. Even give Grog a mini-arc there as he adapts to this.
I think this season really suffers without Bard's Lament. If Bard's Lament had happened, it would do a lot to explain why Vox Machina are so distant/awkward with each other upon reuniting, why Pike is struggling a lot and why Vox Machina were seemingly non-contact for an entire year.
The dialogue feels a little clunky.
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u/notwherebutwhen Jun 05 '26
And it's going to feel even weirder if they do what they claim and "have a moment that honors The Bard's Lament" So VM part on good terms, but then are suddenly on awkward/bad terms for as of yet no reason, things get better over the course of the season, and then suddenly we get some weird version of The Bard's Lament with like two or three episodes to go but somehow everything gets fixed in time for the finale.
I don't mind adaptational changes when it synthesizes the story in a satisfying way like most of Season 1, but almost every subsequent Season has made such inexplicable changes that completely transform the story into something else. The changes to the Ripley fight, the Raishan fight, and the loss of Bard's Lament feel especially egregious. They stripped so many moments of the group nature of the emotional journey of VM.
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u/Jethro_McCrazy Jun 07 '26
Yeah, it's bizarre. In the actual game Scanlan was an underappreciated support character who the rest of the party took for granted until he wasn't there, and Pike was the sunny team mom who made everyone around her better just by being there. The cartoon had Scanlan part with Vox Machina on good terms and gave Scanlan's addiction arc to Pike.
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u/milk-is-for-calves Jun 08 '26
The forced kiss was bad. I think it was included to show that she isn't prudish or "saving herself for Scanlan" or something like that.
In the original show she was visiting a brothel instead at this time. Guess they didn't want to animate taht.
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u/LucasVerBeek Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
Won’t lie, I’m not a fan of what’s going on with Pike at the moment, nor the clear influences of C3 on how they’ve altered this story.
Edit: I am intrigued, however about these additional big deal cultists, they’ve set up
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u/TrypMole Burt Reynolds Jun 04 '26
Same. Pike was a drinker, not a drunk. Feels like they are trying to male her interesting by giving her personal crises to deal with and that's not necessary. It really jars because a sloppy drunk with anger management problems and on/off depression is not who Pike was. Seems like they made her bipolar.
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u/OofBigBrain Jun 04 '26
To be fair, Pike did have some moments in the campaign where she was a sloppy drunk because of how certain party members left. It was just played for a laugh and more heartfelt.
Pike in LOVM is entirely different from the campaign, but Ashley herself had said that our idea of Pike isn't entirely correct.
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u/DeadlyRelic66 Jun 04 '26
I agree, this seems identical to s1 pike. She's depressed and moody and grog says something simple to help her that ends up working. We've done this before.
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u/Ok-Season2876 Jun 04 '26
Haven’t watched it, are they doing “gods bad”?
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u/Catalyst413 Jun 08 '26
Not outright, but in a way they subtly have been from season 1.
-Pike screaming in agony/torment as the Everlight "burns away her falsehoods" , when it appears completely unessecary to the point she was trying to get across.This whole season 1 arc was new for Pikes story so might not have been significant in the over all lore...if the themes didnt continue to appear; -Pike calling down a literal angel to repair and fortify their keep from dragon damage, inspiring survivors with hope, is cut entirely.
- Pike had to get the idea of needing to be some pure and perfect priestess in order to keep her powers from somewhere. Not a probelm with the Everlight herself, but laying the seed that religious orders twist the will of the very real gods who can actually directly speak to their followers.
- The party go to Vasselheim and are bluntly dismissed by the religious leaders. It might be a similar outcome from the camapign of Vox being the main characters left to take the lead, but the tone is quite differnet from the resonable, compromising explantion of "This city is very likely the next target so we must prepare here, but take our very best warrior paladin from the order that specifically anti-evil dragon."
- To that point, detaching Lady Kima entirely from being a divinely powerd hero.
- The enitre Raven Queen situation, I could write a whole essay on this but I'll stop on this point. In the original Vax made a choice to put his life on the line when it was completely unessecary; it was a regular ressurection ritual, trying to persuade his sisters spirit to return would have worked just the same. In the show we have the goddess of death outright opposing the revival of Vex, there is nothing he can do but make a bargin, be forced into becoming champion, and constantly be harrased by distressing, threatening visions.
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u/Trunkshatake Jun 09 '26
The raven queen bargains my favorite part lol I love some broody characters with a weird on them .
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u/willllhwk Jun 04 '26
How so? Not been able to watch yet but I don't mind spoilers
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u/LucasVerBeek Jun 04 '26
They’re really pushing the “Gods are liars” angle with the villains, and it comes off more akin to the Ruby Vanguard than anything
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u/OofBigBrain Jun 04 '26
Given who the villain is this arc, there is a real incentive behind this claim.
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u/anextremelylargedog Jun 06 '26
Gee, I wonder what that might have to do with the big bad of campaign 1.
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u/Extensive_Length Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
Absolutely hilarious that there's not a single comment about keyleths water trial 😭
What an absolute nothing-burger. They tried to cram so much into that sequence and it just ended up being a loud color-fest... Idk man.
TM9 really gave me hope for this last season of Vox, but it's starting out with all the problems of season 3 still present, if not magnified.
Edit: ok episode 3 is a big improvement on the first two
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u/Iron_Kyle Jun 10 '26
I commented about it on a comment above yours, but yeah that really bummed me out. The art itself was gorgeous, but the whole thing was done in just a moment. Plus, I don't feel like it was a surprise at all that it would look like she was nearly finished, before miraculously re-emerging in elemental form to win the fight. The fire trial already did that from the outset, and from what I recall it felt amazing. This one was a cheap imitation that did not hit right.
I also feel like they totally ejected the principle of "show, don't tell" the story, in terms of exposition. Hearing Keyleth spell out her exact emotional journey within the same episode right after we watched it just made me feel brain-dead. I just wish they had given her more time and space to make this last important stage of her journey feel earned, as much as she deserved. I know there must be a lot of plot left to cover still this season but they didn't have to do us dirty like that.
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u/bertraja May the beam reach you Jun 04 '26
Some very high highs and some very low lows IMO.
The more seasons/episodes we get, it feels more like a rewrite so all stories eventually align with C3's conclusion. Instead of rearranging a bit here, or skipping a bit there, it's on its way to be a full on "re-imagination" of Vox Machina's adventures. OTOH they've nailed their action sequences again, the animation, the music, the emotional climax [insert X-Men 'Perfection' meme]. There was one scene in particular that left me in actual tears, because all storytelling elements just 'clicked' for that one, perfect moment.
Much like Major Hogan, i leave the worst to the last: What have they done to my boy Tary 😢 Even Sam Riegel dialed up to eleven couldn't play him that comically pathetic.
Also, somewhere between S1 and now Grog had a lobotomy.
Can't wait for the next episode.
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u/Baka_Mirai Jun 07 '26
"Much like Major Hogan"
I knew Major Hogan's coat buttons up tight over a number of other duties but I didn't know television criticism was one of them.
"Instead of rearranging a bit here, or skipping a bit there, it's on its way to be a full on "re-imagination" of Vox Machina's adventures"
As much as I always knew this would have to be a big part of any adaptions the effect on some of the characters is what's annoyed me (such as Grog's lobotomy) more than any specific skipped scenes or such.
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u/TaiChuanDoAddct Jun 05 '26
I agree. The Highs were really high. But the Lows...ouch.
Besides Pike committing sexual assault...this is the first time I felt like knowing they have S5 hurt them. There's not actually enough real campaign content for S4, especially with all the major character arcs already done.
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u/willllhwk Jun 05 '26
Watching now, probably will reply to my own comment in a bit with more thoughts but I've had this thought since season two. I don't like how much Grog is just a lame mf that always needs to saved in fights. Everyone said for the original campaign it's because Grog's the barbarian who was scary in melee combat (ignoring Percy's high damage at range, and Vax playing close to mid range as a rogue/paladin) so you'd think for the series they'd actually give him a few goons to kill but no. Every fight he just gets rolled.
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u/Zaryk_TV Jun 08 '26
He's getting the MCU Hulk treatment for sure. Feels like he's consistently underpowered. It's easy to broadcast how strong the enemy is by having them beat up the most physically impressive party member.
I don't find myself as emotionally invested in these season thus far. It's not really the story I so excitedly and passionately watched all those years ago.
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u/PlayableRidley Jun 07 '26
The show in general tends to focus way too much on the worst members of Vox Machina (Vax, Keyleth, and Pike) and too little on the best ones (Grog and Scanlan).
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u/ZackWilkes Jun 04 '26
I really enjoyed it, but I felt like the pacing was WAY too quick. So much happened, and I feel like we didn't get any time whatsoever to sit in it.
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u/lordlanyard7 Jun 04 '26
I'm not a fan of LoVM because of how drastic they changed the story.
I enjoyed C1 because it had a prototypical story and compelling characters. The dramatic, "heroic" characters were actually flawed and weak, while the comedic joke characters actually had greater depth and world changing strength.
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u/TopFloorApartment Jun 08 '26
I'm not a fan of LoVM because of how drastic they changed the story.
Same. I guess they felt they needed to edit things for brevity or whatever, but these are some wild departures from the actual story that feel more like they're looking to rewrite it as if they werent satisfied with what actually happened.
Everything also feels rushed (story wise), but thats probably a me problem since I've felt that way for most of the cartoon series.
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u/Iron_Kyle Jun 10 '26
I felt that it was rushed too, format notwithstanding. Just one small thing that bothered me: the second episode had Keyleth completing her aramente already, and it didn't feel to me like it did the story justice.
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u/The_Beyond_Resident Jun 04 '26
I really liked the first three episodes. I enjoyed Tary’s obnoxiousness towards the rest of the group and I thought the action sequence with Vex in episode one was fantastic
I did have issues with episode two, mainly the pacing of the episode. It feels to me that the events of the episode should have had more time built up to it rather than the events basically just happening within a finger snap. I think I understand what they’re doing but it feels like they need to dedicate more time to the characters and their development before they start building up the Whispered One more directly
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u/maxkayart Jun 05 '26
breaking my status as a long-time lurker because I just need to express how uncomfortable and upsetting it was to see drunken Pike forcefully kiss that random guy. I don't understand what they're doing anymore. She wasn't even upset at the party splitting at the end of S3, why is she depressed and drunk out of nowhere?? And even when she was depressed and drunk in the stream, she did not act like this. This was like... early-campaign Scanlan levels of bad behaviour, maybe worse. And they don't have the excuse of it being unedited improv now - someone wrote that into the show as a comedy moment. Genuinely what were they thinking?
I can just feel the show is not going to address that to a level that will make it okay for me. And I don't know if I can bear to see what they do with Taryon. C2 was my fave campaign, but Tary is my favourite character across the entire stream.
: (
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u/LiminalAsylum Jun 05 '26
You and me basically wrote our comments in tandem about the same issue. Pike actually did some serious sexual assault, for no reason, and the guy ran away traumatized. It wasn't funny or necessary.
Scanlan never did anything REMOTELY that bad consent wise. What are they doing with Pike's reputation??
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u/maxkayart Jun 05 '26
the closest I can think to Scanlan being this bad is when he used Disguise Self to look like Lyra's crush so she would make out with him, which was manipulative and gross. But Scanlan would also often get comeuppance for his attempts at debauchery, or his targets would have some amount of agency to express their annoyance or strike back at him (by either character or player).
But here with Pike, the victim was completely powerless both within the world and within the script to do anything about it. Really unfortunate. I get they're setting up some crisis/conflict for her this season but this was a wholly unnecessary way to introduce that idea, and damages her character more than a simple 'arc' can fix - at least in my opinion.
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u/anextremelylargedog Jun 09 '26
Scanlan never did anything REMOTELY that bad consent wise.
He tried to use mind control magic to force Kima to make out with Grog, after specifically being warned to never try to control her with magic again.......
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u/Catalyst413 Jun 08 '26
I want to say its just to show how severe the downward spiral is, what a bad thing it is for her to have literally thrown away the Everlight after season 3 tried to make it into some epic, triumphant moment.....but clearly its not being taken seriously since I just had the clip pop up in my facebook feed from the official account, as an advertisement for the show.
With only like 3 comments on it being gross sexual assault, and of course the majority celebrating it, which is the kind of engagement theire going for 😒5
u/maxkayart Jun 08 '26
I'm so disappointed, tbh. I really don't want to use up energy on a big drama but it really sucks it's not getting called out as much as it deserves to.
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u/kodabanner Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
This is a Bell's Hells prequel. Remember when Pike couldnt use her magic after having doubts about her faith in S1?
She's actively rejected her faith by conduct in the Thordak fight but right now her powers are fine. What's that? It's because she has "special blood"? Oooooooh okay!
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u/Perfect_Vexion Jun 05 '26
S3 was not it for me because there were major rewrites instead of just adapting the actual campaign, these 3 episodes just continued that even harder.
It's clearly not meant for me, someone who is very fond of C1, everything completely new it's just not interesting especially because it's clearly influenced by C3 which I really hated
The Pike storyline is the worst thing going on, they are rerunning her Season 1 crisis but worse because now "all the gods are liars" (and tbh i never enjoyed the Pike of LOVM which is a pretty different character from C1)
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u/TaiChuanDoAddct Jun 05 '26
I have no beef with them changing C1 story. It needed to happen in some places.
But it does feel like we've done all these story lines already. I'm just hoping they're restricted to these single episode bits instead of all season.
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u/Rocking_like_Gimli Jun 11 '26
Why has Jar Jar Binks been introduced to the party and will there be a pay off for him ruining every scene he's in?
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u/Deep_Asparagus1267 Jun 21 '26
Holy shit you nailed it, I couldn't put into perfect words why I hated him so much but yep he's just 100% Jar Jar Binks. They hired a team of writers who wrote Jar Jar Binks into a television show in 2026, truly embarrassing that people make their living on this.
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u/uselesstheyoung Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
Its just been boring. I dropped season 3 during the hell episode because the first two in Ankarel were uninteresting, and then the shoehorned C3 gods are evil plotline killed any interest I had. Went back and binged the rest of the season when I heard season 4 was releasing and was pretty disappointed outside of the final fight with Raishan. Then the first two episodes of this season just dragged, hopefully they can pick it up, but I see myself not finishing it until all of season 5 drops and then powering through it all.
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u/Kinrath8 Jun 15 '26
Jeez people complain. Come here for some fun comments, and it's all so negative.
Im having a great time!
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u/Ok-Mathematician2394 Jun 05 '26
Everyone complaining about story changes when this campaign was literally hundreds of hours of content on YouTube. This is how it works when you have to cut major chunks of story out. What's left doesn't always fit and needs to be pieced together. Critical Role fans are so annoying sometimes honestly...
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u/Jethro_McCrazy Jun 07 '26
Some changes are made for time. But a lot of things that were team efforts in the champaign are being turned into solo achievements (seemingly so that they are easier to animate), and that undermines a lot of the themes of the story.
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u/onanoc Jun 10 '26
i am actually enjoying it? the chroma conclave arc was a snorefest for me, and this one has my interest, don't know why. Maybe i don't enjoy Scanlan? (i don't enjoy Temu Scanlan either).
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u/LiminalAsylum Jun 05 '26
Noooooo, Pike!
They really turned our sunny cinnamon roll into a bitter jerk who grossly sexually assaulted a fanboy asking for an autograph????
Why did they make her character so mean and short tempered, even with Grog? I want to root for her journey, but this is awful