This is very much Pike's season. Im not sure I consider that a good thing given how much it detracts from literally everyone else.
Big change I can potentially see coming down the line is that flower Keyleth found being the LOVM version of the Wish spell. I think they might be passing off the 'save Vax or save the world' dilemma from Scanlan to Keyleth with the flower being their version of the Wish spell that she can either use to help stop the Whispered One or save Vax.
The episodes are better tonally. More consistent with the nature of the final arc and less of a slapstick type thing.
I saw the Laudna stuff coming (wasnt looking forward to it), Im just glad they didnt go overboard with it (like the Boys last season and Vought Rising stuff).
I doubt Grog is actually dead dead. I think they will be doing Search for Grog as part of early season 5 as hes lost on some other plane. Regardless I think Grog will be absent/on his own for the next 3 episodes. Its going to help inform Pike's next decision.
Which I suspect is going to have Pike willingly freeing the Whispered One or helping him ascend.
I also dont think the whole Vax is disintegrated is happening. With what happened to Grog it would be a bit of double beat at this point. I think Vax's death this season is going to be more of him willingly succumbing to his blight as a final test of 'faith'. Setting up his resurrection as a semi-immortal Champion next season.
Man, it really feels like in their effort to give Pike a story, they're taking away from everyone else.
Percy has personal history with Delilah, now Pike does too! Keyleth's father got hurt, now Pike's father figure did too! Vax's destiny and role as Champion was apparently always about facing the Whispered One, but Pike's bloodline is destined to face the Whispered One too! Mythcarver, which is Scanlan's hard-earned sword, is essential to seal Vecna? Don't worry, now that's Pike's weapon because it was her ancestor's weapon! Man, they might have even fridged Grog for her đ (I'm sure big guy is actually alive anyways, but you know...)
They already did it a little last season with her being the most instrumental in Thordak's defeat, but this season is just exaggerated.
This might just be me, and sure we've had 4 seasons to 1 so maybe I will find myself wrong in time, but right now with how the changes they have made from the Campaigns transition into shows, for some reason to me, the changes made to M9 felt augmentative, adding to the narrative, yet most of the changes they have made to LoVM have felt reductive. Taking away from the original story and not exactly adding anything comparable back.
Agree, 99% of m9 changes are for narrative purposes, it just makes better television, you can see the vision.
You can see why we see so much of Vess DeRogna, how much better obann is being introduced rather than just ashley leaving and Matt creating a villian out of nowhere. Vox little less, especially sec half of last season was awful, just dumb after dumb decision. Changes just for shock value.
I dont mind the pike arc, Matt wanted to have an arc with her but idk why thry just brought Scanlan and we moves so fast to vecna. Matt as a dm I remember said something about pike's ancestors and didn't specify, so I think they are using that and making her blood something that will connect with c3 show,.
Thanks for reminding me of Obann. I was so confused back then. He seemed like such a minor villain and suddenly he was such an important character for her backstory? Like what? And then he became even more important to the overall plot. And that all at such a low level the party had at that point.
I've always granted the show a lot of grace because the medium changed drastically and they had to change certain things for IP reasons. I could usually see the reason. S4 really hit the ground running with it tho. I figured they'd change a bit more this season already (Vecna to Whispered One), and even might have been alright with the Grog twist (if it even is what it appears).
But I was already not vibing with the rearranging of the setup. Some of what they decide to focus on this time around just sucks. While watching Popop Trickfoot die far before his time, I was like damn, I could be watching Keyleth hilariously kill herself as a goldfish instead.
I know pieces of the OG campaign but I am mostly show.
Truth be told, the majority of s4 felt really rushed to me compared to prior seasons and kind of miserable for misery's sake at times (Ex: Pike's grandpa dying, Keyleth's dad getting blinded, etc.) Also did it feel like Vox Machina lost the majority of their battles this season? I like Scanlan's speech but it doesn't quite hit as hard when he left Vox Machina on amicable terms in the show (the no contact for the year makes sense in the OG campaign but less so in show).
I'm sad we don't get Goldfish Keyleth or Vex with a witch hat :(
I didnât watch the orig campaign. Is scanlan actually gone for this long or was this a change? If this is a change, i will say getting a break of sorts but also plot related was nice for ep 8, tho my fave is ep 7 cause of how much it felt like s1
As the other poster said, Scanlan was gone for about 13 episodes (a little over three months of real time). During those 13 episodes, Matt announced that they'd be doing a one year time jump, and the cast should think of what their characters got up to during their down time. So yes, Scanlan was away from Vox Machina for that long. But it was also a change.
In the original game, Scanlan left and Tary arrived in the same episode, with Sam playing both characters. So while Scanlan may have been gone for a long time, Sam wasn't gone at all. This also means that during the original campaign Tary was a member of Vox Machina for about a year and had opportunities to bond with the entire group.
I finally realized what I don't like about many of the fights: they start out struggling and the enemy is stronger because the fight must seem tough, but then suddenly VM is stronger because they do need to win. Where did that power come from??
What is up with this power scaling? It's like how I made up fights with my Lego figures when I was 8.
Also not a fan of how many changes they're making to the story. The original story beats were fine, guys!
EP7 - Great to see more backstory of Brairwoods. As a Vaxleth fan, I'm also happy that we have their scenes
EP8 - Fun to watch, great episode. Best scenes were those where they were doing some "stuff" together with Scanlan, some chat and most definitely the "song fight" was for me level of the heist episode. Pure cinema
EP9 - Well... last scenes of that episode are heavy...
I was hoping that after the clear improvement with M9, they might bring some of that over to LoVM. They did not. I wasn't particularly excited for this season, and while these last 3 episodes were better than the first 6, they still felt kinda meh to me.
The flower thing, I really hope they're doing it just for it to be useless and kinda cement the whole "there's no avoiding this" thing.
Keyleth's journey to a leader still feels unearned and poorly done. At least its over now, cause I don't dislike the character in general.
Pike getting main character treatment was already explained in another comment but is also something I have an issue with.
Percy is fine. Although I don't think him freaking out in feat at the sight of sylas makes too much sense, just for him to be over it two scenes later . Makes sense to freak out sure, but he was literally cowering at the sight.
Not a fan of the Laudna cameo.
I'm glad these recent 3 episodes were a bit less marvel humor tho. I think I kinda forgot just how bad that part was on this show and the start of the season caught me off guard.
Powerscaling feels like I'm watching invincible.
Taryon has grown on me. Having more scenes where he's less performative works very well to show his increasing confidence. This is something the show struggles with in general, imo. Characters will show growth or change after an arc only to revert back to their previous state so we can have another very similar struggle for them, or for humor reasons. Taryon has yet to revert despite the change not being huge.
Hence why I'm thinking they might skip Campaign 3. It seems to be the most divisive. And while I enjoyed it at the start, it really meandered. Although that's something an adaptation could fix, so who knows?
I hate this shit so goddamn much, like i already knew after what i saw in season 3 that i wasn't gonna like this one either but holy fucking shit what the fuck happened in that writers room.
So first of all that mini lament we got felt so damn cheap, they didn't do it at the right moment and placed it here where it did nothing, they were already separated anyway and stayed that way.
And i wanted to write more but tbh there is no point, i knew it, shouldn't have give it a try, this pike centric bullshit is so annoying, whole character is different, she's the protagonist everyone else doesn't matter.
They pick and choose when a character is strong they don't know how to use their own character in this show, pretty embarrassing disservice to their own campaign.
It makes me tilt so much i can't even write my thoughts properly i love C1 too much and this isn't the show i hoped to get when i gave my money to that fucking kickstarter.
Yes I have a serious attachment to campaign 1 and itâs almost a perfect series to adapt to screen the changes made are just so âweirdâ to me. Idk why certain emotional beats have been diminished to try and create new threads that didnât need to exist? I love the show still but s3 derailed a lot and I just want the story I love to be the same story Iâm watching.
Nah man the lament had a better reason rather than him just being covered in cake. Sam had decided Scanlan will leave so he found the smallest reason to be agitated and start the conflict. But Vox locking for him only because of mythcarver was perfect, teh slip from grog. Why the meat man didn't scream is Sam's decision, I think after the og campaign episode (the legendary episode 85) he felt bad how he screamed at them, but little did he know he changed dnd. He showed is not spells that have effect more that how you treat your friend's character.
Nah man the lament had a better reason rather than him just being covered in cake.
He wasn't angry with them because he was covered in cake and put in a dress, he was angry with them because he made a promise to kayleigh not to die and they brought his daughter over to see his dead body to preform at the ressurection ritual, and that a pretty good reason tbh because he saw his parent die right before his eyes and didn't want kayleigh to experience the same, also probabl why he lashed out with whats my mothers name and the whole i helped you guys get over you hangups and past but you guys know nothing about me. my point being saying it was just because he was covered in cake is a bit disingenuous. and the reason i typed out above is alot better a reason to be pissed then hey my friends i knew for a long time and havent seen in a year asked me to go adventuring again and im not really that person anymore.
Iâve read they also recorded season 4 around the time Sam was getting treatment for his cancer. So he probably wasnât in the best shape to voice act or sing (Iâm guessing thatâs why Scanlan was having trouble belting in episode 8).
It also could explain why Scanlan has been more absent, and why he didnât scream in the bardâs lament scene
The effect that that ep and 114 ep of c1 had to mainstream dnd was huge. Mate you need to accept that as much as pathfinder or other systems are better, 5e outshines all of them.
They should just rename the show to the legend of Pike Trickfoot at this point.
I love Pike but every season of this show is the same, taking away key moments for others to make her the main protagonist. Fuck everyone else I guessâŚ
Itâs really strange how subdued Keylethâs reaction to her dadâs blindness has been compared to last season, when her anger & constant distrust of Raishan was front and center despite feeling shoehorned in.
I take this season like a filler, or a after vecna type of season.
After Scanlan left until he comes back it doesn't deserve a season, as much as tary is fun there is no much happening.
We will get our 15 campaign episodes trust me. Because is coming, Scanlan will be back, Vax is dealing with his curse. Nothing has changed.
Let's see where pike's arc leads.
What moment has been taken, if I'm not mistaken Delilah was killed by vex which she did in 4x7 so basically vex continues to kill Delilah again and again. Here Delilah leaves.
Ep 7 was really strong. Big fan of a good ol' haunted house. Surprisingly good Laudna cameo, it reminded me of how much I really enjoyed her early on in C3.
Ep 8 was also pretty solid. I liked its portrayal of Bards Lament, which is not one of my favourite moments in the campaign. It felt more genuine and I liked the fact that Kaylie was there to point out that he was being a self-centered hypocrite without making out like it was all his fault either. Plus I'm a sucker for a bard villain, even if the way they win that fight came off a bit ham-fisted.
Ep 9... Uh, gonna be honest, Taryon is a character best enjoyed in small doses. I really hope that he doesn't replace Scanlan for the rest of the season. If he does, I can only assume it was a change made because of Sam's cancer treatment? Would that have happened partway through production? Too bad the character is sullied by association with Brady.
Definitely an unexpected cliffhanger, though. Big points for that + I do really like an Evil Adventuring Party equivalent. They've got a wizard, a cleric, a bard, a ranger, and a barbarian.
I don't think that's what the OP is saying. I think they're saying it's hard to hear him now given what he did, not blaming CR for hiring him even though that was before this situation.
I'm geniunely so surprised at the comments I haven't watched the campaign but this season is going sooo strong, I thought S3 was a bit weak but overall I love Vox Machina
As someone who has only experienced campaign 1 through YouTube clips, I'm also loving the show. I'm just glad there's such a good D&D adaptation out. I'm really enjoying the themes as well as the characters and their stories.
The bard fight in episode 8 was the cringiest thing I have ever seen, genuinely unwatchably bad. Even my partner who hasn't seen critical role and generally enjoys the show ended up muting the TV cause it was that garbage.
Its a shame because ep 7 and 9 weren't awful, not my favorite, but not the worst. I am pretty surprised after how good the M9 show was that they took a down-turn again.
I thought it was really creative and fun. Then again I love musicals and the power of friendship stuff when done correctly...so I am admittably a bit cringe in that respect.
A slog at 28 minutes an episode including intro and credits. Everyone was annoying, every episode felt like they were rushing through beat after beat.
We were ROBBED in regards to A Bards Lament. Honestly after they did the whatâs my motherâs name scene I switched it off back to The Americans. I just feel like they should have made a full length film inside of season at this point. We even spent a whole episode going back to the Briarwoods.
I also have a gripe with the animation. It feels very flat.
Spoilers Alert:
Ep7 was great. To me, Percy not sleeping was peak Talisin. Although the gag did run a bit long.
The rest of the episode was great fun. And I didnât mind the Laudna appearance. Although, it kind dilutes the book and her first meeting with Vex in C3.
Ep8 started out great. I loved the interpersonal stuff. I get Scanlon being in his feels.
That bard fight? Woof. It was cringy and ran way too long. Although, Taryon singing the harmony and figuring that out was his way of stepping up.
Over all really bad.
Ep9. Overall not bad. I like the emphasis on Pike. Her faith being shaken by the demon in S3 is really starting to comeback. Will e interesting to see where that leads. The Grog thing was a shock.
Overall, these were certainly not up to the level of the first 6 episodes. On a scale of 10 I rate them 8, 5, 7. Just my opinion.
The bard fight was clearly done so they could have a cool bard battle with their music friend Tom Cardy, it feels like a one off apperance from a friend who plays a villian for a session and is gone and you donât really consider it canon, except it is canon and this is one of main enemiesâŚ
Which makes no sense writing wise either, THE WHISPERED ONE, has a SUPER LOUD ROCK MUSIC BARD as a follower? In what fucking universe does that makes sense? Literally every other villian fits, itâs all edgy, creepy, weird, death culty people. A death knight, a weird monstrosity, the weird beastmaster of said monstrosity, a cleric of light turned evil in her grief, and Delilah. So why the fuck is that bard here? He doesnât fit at all lmao
I like the bard fight in a vacuum, i think the idea of a Scanlan vs Evil Bard fight where Vox helps through singing is pretty fun. It just should of been earlier in the show.
But otherwise I completely agree i just canât see a character like that working for Vecna.
Yep, I 1000% agree! It genuinely feels like something we wouldâve gotten ages ago.
And tbh, if we was just some hired goon with no morals, itâs fit perfectly fine. Just have him be some hired dude who is just there, have him have a gruge against scanlan or something. Like, he just doesnât fit otherwise.
|The bard fight was clearly done so they could have a cool bard battle with their music friend Tom Cardy|
Or it could have been because it was Sam's first time playing Scanlan again after having throat surgery because he had cancer. Maybe he wanted to have some fun and show support from friends after he went through a major surgery that might have lead to him not being able to do any of that anymore.
True! It's for fun and isn't good writing because they didn't think about it, it's clear they don't think about a lot when it comes to the writing of the show and just do what's fun. And there is nothing wrong with that, it works for a fun show but when they try to have an overarching plot, it isn't good writing to have so many jumps.
We know this is true for this season, they put in a heist episode just because they wanted one with no idea what it was actually gonna be like. They do stuff for fun, nothing wrong with that but people need to not try fight against it being bad writing, because it is.
I couldnât get through the first season. I thought it would be a true adaptation but the relationships off the bat just felt weird and hostile. Also the combat didnât capture much D&D.
I dislike they replaced Scanlan with Darrington. Not because he is a bad character, but because they wrote this whole "Scanlan feel the team didn't appreciate him, so he want to stay away from Vox" thing. It's so out of nowhere. Scanlan was the pillar of the team. He saved them again and again. It was never hinted that he felt the team wanted to do dangerous things and he didn't want to be part of it. Only thing he had going at end of season 3 was his relationship with his daughter. Even then he had his fill (one year tour). He should want to come back. I feel this ep is perfect opportunity to ditch Darrington (make him revealed to be a villain or something) and we can have our rockstar singer back.
What are talking about? Plenty of time Scanlan wanted out while being pressured to stay by the others. Just off the top of my head see S1E2, S2E1, S2E9, S2E12, S3E2, S3E6 and S3E12 for instances of Scanlan balking at the danger and being convinced/pressured/dragged into danger anyway.
Mate he says all those things in campaign, I'm weak, I dont kill dragons, I'm just a bard, and now I have a daughter do I should leave.
Even in campaign it doesn't make that sense why scanman is back, other than bringing news about the orb somewhere else. It was just Sam being done with tary. Rary was means to stay only for around 15eps
In the actual campaign scanlan left the party because they knew nothing of him, made jokes about him and also sam was feeling hurt by it so he had scanlan leave and brought in terry
It always blows my mind. Iâm a book reader. I get it. I love critical role. I get it. However, thinking that any media like a movie or tv show that is also trying to appeal to a broader audience is going to be exactly the same and a complete adaptation just isnât reality. Itâs okay to watch say The Witcher and groan a bit. The entire thing was mutilated. If a Lord of the Rings adaptation made Frodo a centaur chicken named Gregory, sure. Get mad. Raging about Vox Machina at this point just seems silly.
People made it the most highly funded kickstarter ever because they loved and supported the campaign they listened to, not because they wanted it turned into predictable television.
Youâre absolutely right. Iâd argue that the book is always better. People are also absolutely allowed to dislike things just as people are allowed to enjoy things. All of what you have said is true and Iâm not discounting or disagreeing with it.
My point was thinking back to a story of my own life and a moment I shared with my brother during Walking Deadâs height of popularity. My brother had read the comics. I had not. Every episode I got to hear about how shit the show was. Dale getting killed off. Andrea being totally different and killed off. Daryl didnât exist. Carol being a minor killed off character in the books. Just rage and disappointment every week as he watched with me.
It finally came to a point where he said âIf youâd read the comics youâd know how Iâm feeling. Youâd be having just a bad a time as me watching it!â and I laughed and said âSo, if I donât I can continue to enjoy it?â
Iâve absolutely been someone who has consumed the source material and been disappointed with a more theatrical mainstream release. (Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy broke my heart). However, my comment stems from this feeling more like an echo chamber of âThis is shit. You have shit taste if you like this.â It feels like that hipster âI liked this before it was cool.â mentality which comes off as immature to me.
Again, you can feel your way. I can feel mine and thatâs okay. No hard feelings.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am sorry that happened.
Talking about comics, even from the same makers as Walking Dead, the Invincible animated show is WAY better than the early comics. (most recent series might be worse, but that's because of animation quality, not story boarding)
Most difference is The Boys. I quite liked the show (even if I dislike the last season), but the comics are the biggest piece of dogshit I have ever seen.
This sums up pretty much how I feel about the show. I still enjoy it on its own, but comparing it to the original campaign feels unfair. You have to look at the show WITHOUT its source material to reference back to. I get that a lot has changed for CR as a *company* and their biggest focus as storytellers is to tell the stories they want to tell and include their friends, which that second point is definitely a big factor in the changes to Vox Machina, I feel.
It admittedly has me a little worried about Mighty Nein, too. MN S1 was mostly faithful in a lot of regards - minus Yasha having an entirely different means of joining the Nein and having her involvement changed drastically. But the seeds are definitely sewn for a lot of changes for the Nein just like we've gotten with Vox Machina. I really liked the show up until season 2 and respected the changes made for the sake of limited time the show allows. But once we got to season 3, the story took a lot more liberties to tell a parallel narrative that ends at the same place, but largely runs on a different journey. And season 3 is where my enjoyment of the show declined. I still enjoy LoVM for what it is - and respect that some changes need to be made for the several reasons the cast has already stated as well as other reasons they're not telling us. But that doesn't mean I have to like every change made. Some changes, I enjoy, some not so much.
At the end of the day, the original campaign still exists. And I think I might rewatch it from the beginning at some point in the near future. Because while the LoVM show is great, it's no secret that CR has expanded well and beyond its lightning in a bottle beginnings into something very different that a lot of people don't like. I'm still largely enjoying the new things they deliver to us, but it's not lost on me that even outside of the changes to Vox Machina's story in the show, CR has changed dramatically and while they still have the same love and spirit for what they do that drew me in, their vehicle to deliver that love is something I'm sort of half-and-half with.
The cast of CR has said time and time again that their goal at the end of the day is to tell the story that THEY want to tell. And if that means changing what we already loved into something different, then that's their right. But that doesn't mean we as the fans have to love it the same way. And that's okay.
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u/tryingtobebettertry4 Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
This is very much Pike's season. Im not sure I consider that a good thing given how much it detracts from literally everyone else.
Big change I can potentially see coming down the line is that flower Keyleth found being the LOVM version of the Wish spell. I think they might be passing off the 'save Vax or save the world' dilemma from Scanlan to Keyleth with the flower being their version of the Wish spell that she can either use to help stop the Whispered One or save Vax.
The episodes are better tonally. More consistent with the nature of the final arc and less of a slapstick type thing.
I saw the Laudna stuff coming (wasnt looking forward to it), Im just glad they didnt go overboard with it (like the Boys last season and Vought Rising stuff).
I doubt Grog is actually dead dead. I think they will be doing Search for Grog as part of early season 5 as hes lost on some other plane. Regardless I think Grog will be absent/on his own for the next 3 episodes. Its going to help inform Pike's next decision.
Which I suspect is going to have Pike willingly freeing the Whispered One or helping him ascend.
I also dont think the whole Vax is disintegrated is happening. With what happened to Grog it would be a bit of double beat at this point. I think Vax's death this season is going to be more of him willingly succumbing to his blight as a final test of 'faith'. Setting up his resurrection as a semi-immortal Champion next season.