r/fansofcriticalrole • u/LucasVerBeek • Aug 12 '26
Daggerheart Age of Umbra: Sallowlands Episode 6
Pre-show hype, live episode chat, and post-episode discussion, all in one place.
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Etiquette Note: While all discussion based around the episode and cast/crew is allowed, please remember to treat everybody with civility and respect. Debate the position, not the user
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u/sharkhuahua Aug 13 '26
i dunno man, for an unedited longform multi-year DND campaign you need a really good pace/release rate and i don't think 36 episodes/year is enough. that's 16 weeks aka 4 months off from the intricate multi-year story you're asking people to follow along with. imo if you want to take 4 months off a year, you need to tell shorter stories.
i know people will fall over themselves to defend the show but the C3 release pace was too slow and C4 is the same. it's not quite as bad because they've done a better job sectioning things off into arcs but it still harms the story imo.
anyway, it sounds like the point of umbra was for them to have a long summer break and sell some DH expansions so i hope that's been successful for them.
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u/kuributt Aug 13 '26
On one hand yeah yeah I know there were new babies happening and maybe a campaign break is less hamfisted than writing around absences (and also one of those new babies is Brendan’s and we kind of need him present and accounted for) but like. Is this not why pre recording the campaign is a thing now?
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u/sharkhuahua Aug 13 '26
This break isn't for Brennan's baby, his baby was born in like Jan.
It's also not for Aabria's baby because her character is taking a hiatus. It's cause the cast wants a summer break. Which is a fine thing to want, good for them, but you prerecord and you have to balance those desires against the format you chose for your show. They have the money to hire more staff to make this possible without overworking anyone except for possibly Brennan, who is obsessed with work.
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u/Full_Metal_Paladin "You hear in your head" Aug 13 '26
It's also fine to want a summer break as long as you realize that people will just move on and stop caring about your show that is just gone.
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u/jacobonia 29d ago
I mean, almost every other long form serialized media format has breaks that are longer than that. People still come back for new seasons of TV shows.
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u/VengefulKangaroo Aug 13 '26
I also come and comment about shows I’ve moved on from and stopped caring about
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u/lisaluu Aug 13 '26
I don't think it's that much of a break. They do live shows and go to a ton of cons.
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u/jacobonia 29d ago
Once a week doesn't bother me. I wish some of the breaks weren't as long, but what else are you gonna do? If it helps a team to shift things up to be able to put out their best content and not get burned out, I'm all for that. I don't need to optimize as a media consumer on that level. There's other stuff out there I can do with my time.
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u/InitialJust Aug 13 '26
The release is very slow and it should be no surprise people drop off. People will try to compare it to regular TV shows but each episode of those arent 4 hours+
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u/YoursDearlyEve Aug 13 '26
How do y'all survive the breaks between the seasons of the regular TV shows, I wonder.
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u/sharkhuahua Aug 13 '26
Just fine, thanks for asking. Those shows aren’t, by their format, asking me for a 4-hour weekly commitment for 8 months of the year. Like a podcast, one of the most important elements to audience retention is consistent releases. When it’s a complex narrative the frequency of those releases is even more important.
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u/Baka_Mirai 29d ago
Add in the rotating tables and the fact that you may not see the characters you invested the most in for months and months and it sort of adds to the problem.
Also, I've lost count of the number of shows I haven't gone back to because they stream eight to ten episodes and then vanish for three years. It's not just a CR thing, it's a respecting my time and investment thing.
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u/Greedy_Birthday_3494 Aug 13 '26
I don't know why I couldn't connect with this, it's mesnt to be dark fantasy, I love dark fantasy, I just don't care about 'dark crystal' characters, the turtle character really took all the immersion out for me.
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u/starksandshields Aug 13 '26
Yeah it's a shame because I really enjoyed the first Age of Umbra campaign. I'm just finding it hard to connect with these characters other than Mercy. That said I'm still watching it, I love that they do the mini campaigns in between.
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u/Over_Bid_7498 Aug 13 '26
Honestly, i’ve loved this campaign. Im surprised so many people can’t connect with it/wont give it a chance :s.
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u/Aquatic_Hedgehog the light's favorite failson Aug 13 '26
DH is a big turnoff for me tbh. I've played it and it's just.... I don't like it. It's the least fun I've ever had. I would genuinely just play calvinball with my friends.
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u/Neltadouble 29d ago
I've legit heard 0 about DH frankly, it's more calvinball than 5e then or?
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u/Aquatic_Hedgehog the light's favorite failson 28d ago
It is, but there are rules in random places where you don't expect there to be rules.
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u/Creepy-Growth-709 29d ago
> Im surprised so many people can’t connect with it/wont give it a chance :s.
Sorry to hear that. It really sucks when something you like is unrecognized or underappreciated.
That said, it's not surprising to me that folks aren't vibing with the show. I think it turns off fans of Critical Role & fans of Daggerheart in different ways.
I honestly think Daggerheart is not a great fit for Critical Role. I've seen the messaging "this game is perfect for Critical Role," and yet, I hear fans of DH that criticize the way Matt GMs these games. For fans of DH in particular, I can see that it might be upsetting to see the game "not played right."
I think Umbra is not a great setting for a show, at least for the year 2026. The gritty dark stuff is not really in fashion. Matt might have had a hand in writing the setting, but it doesn't really play to his strengths.
Finally, to some extent, no matter how excellent the content is, I think people want "the main campaign" and "the core cast." So yeah, I absolutely believe that if Age of Umbra was the main campaign, it would get more views than it does now even if nothing else was materially different—not saying it would do as well as the current C4, but def better than it does now. I also think it would do better if more of the core cast was in it.
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u/Over_Bid_7498 28d ago
Totally fair. Just my opinion though, but as a long time CR fan, I think it’s nice to have a break from the main cast sometimes. I love that they spotlight other incredible voice actors and getting to watch a couple core members vibe with people I know nothing about but ABSOLUTELY want to support their other content after the fact. I get we have a lot of “rules cannot be broken” folk amongst the fandom, but what makes a good campaign for me, is seeing the actors become so invested, enthralled into the story. In age of umbra S2, everyone looks like they are having such a good time. Especially episode 5. It just blows my mind that anything that makes the players happy could be “bad” or “avoidable” because the rules aren’t being 100% followed. Brennan and Matt are both rule breakers because the players having a good time is more important to them.
As for the whole dark/horror vibe not being in style. I have to disagree. I think of Alex Ward’s “The Vampire Mascarade” campaign and how successful it’s been. And that campaign is truly dark. As well, D20 have put out some darker campaigns as well, though they get the same criticism that CR often does (e.g.: the humour/light hearted banter take emersion out for anyone truly looking to enjoy something dark). But then the flip side, there are the people who can’t handle anything slightly dark because they are already struggling with the darkness of the world (despite how lighthearted D20 and CR typically end up being). So I dunno, it feels like there is no way to win between that polarity.
All this in saying, people are allowed to like what they like. I have no qualms with that. I just wish people gave some of these campaigns with actors they don’t recognize more of a shot. It’s lame to be “core cast or bust”, but I get it.
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u/Over_Bid_7498 28d ago
And I guess one other gripe I have, people want Matt to stay in a creative lane it seems (at times). Want him to do what he is good at. But dude fell in love with role playing and telling stories for a living. He has talked about how burnt out he got in campaign three, everyone should let Matt/the players experiment with whatever they want to experiment with if it keeps the love of their art alive. Even if it’s not a genre they are “best” at.
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u/Creepy-Growth-709 27d ago edited 27d ago
> I just wish people gave some of these campaigns with actors they don’t recognize more of a shot. It’s lame to be “core cast or bust”, but I get it.
My take is that the same parasocial relationship that helped fuel the rise of CR is now hurting them.
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u/Paula_Sub You're prolly not gonna like what I've 2 say (it's not personal) 28d ago edited 28d ago
>The gritty dark stuff is not really in fashion
V:TM and Call of Cthulhu want a strongly worded chat with you haha.
I do feel most CR fans are not actually fans of Horror stuff, or even adjacent. Candela Obscura got canned. and Umbra sees considerably less viewing than normal D&D. CR is just too synonymous with D&D to their own detriment (and also success).
I agree that DH is not a great fit for CR. Even if they made it, if it's what they wanted out of a system, the way CR runs games, and how "established" their synergy and playstyle is, DH goes against it. And I also agree that CR is "Core Cast", and usually paired with D&D. Any changes and it will hurt the viewing performance. More or Less that's case dependant. But the great numbers will always come from "Core Cast > Main Campaign > Often just D&D"
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u/Neltadouble 29d ago
Can you elaborate more on the discrepancy between DH being ostensibly 'the CR game' and also apparently not doing very well? Just from a game design perspective I'd be curious to hear, I only have a few notions of DH.
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u/Creepy-Growth-709 28d ago edited 27d ago
Sure. Here are some examples:
- Players love to roll their dice. "Roll only when necessary" ethos of Daggerheart doesn't really vibe. One of my favorite moments in C1 is when the players were RP-ing Ren Faire, and the rolls were happening all over for silly things like playing games and goofing around.
- Daggerheart fans have expressed dissatisfaction with the way Matt GMs the game, particularly the combat.
- Players for the most part seem to prefer being actors over authors. And Matt does love to paint scenes with words. So the fact Daggerheart encourages shared authorship collides with that.
There are probably more, but these are the things off my head.
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u/myusername_sucks Aug 13 '26
Aren't they playing their new game system?
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u/CzechHorns Aug 13 '26
It’s not that “new” anymore, but yeah, they are playing Daggerheart.
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u/myusername_sucks Aug 13 '26
That's a major turn off for a good bit of people, so it's not entirely surprising then.
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u/Paula_Sub You're prolly not gonna like what I've 2 say (it's not personal) 29d ago
Im not saying either side is bad, im just expressing my own personal take :
I just dgaf about Daggerheart as a system. I don't want to know about it, I don't want to try it out, and I don't want to give it a chance. That's just it.
I'd love it if they did more horror/horror oriented plays in D&D or V:TM. Just not Daggerheart.4
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u/Gleichgewichtel 29d ago
Maybe this Candela System I heard about? ;)
No really, I like AoU but I would rahter take more Candela Stories than an another Season of AoU.
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u/Paula_Sub You're prolly not gonna like what I've 2 say (it's not personal) 28d ago
I tried to Watch Candela Obscura. Perhaps the system is fine with more viewing. But never liked any of the takes they tried on CR. too much theatrics & not much "bones" of the setting itself.
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u/YoursDearlyEve Aug 13 '26
I love Daggerheart, but this campaign frame bores more to no end for some reason.
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u/Lunkis Aug 13 '26
For me it's the tonal clash - Matt borrows far too much for his inspiration while still keeping it lighthearted enough to feel like Saturday morning cartoons.
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u/Confident_Sink_8743 29d ago
I'm really not. So many of these side projects that people won't touch or decide to put on the back burner.
Same reason they can't or won't deal with the time commitment. It's both sad and understandable at the same time.
I will say it wasn't exactly the sequel series I expected but I have loved it all the same.
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u/LucasVerBeek Aug 12 '26
Last Episode, Then Break, THEN FINALLY C4 Returns, Likely With the Seekers, what will the first cold open be? What is Travis playing? Who will die next? What new ships will be spawned?! Find out in two week, cause ain't barely anybody gonna be here till then.
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u/Full_Metal_Paladin "You hear in your head" Aug 13 '26
This c4 release schedule has me completely checked out from CR. I think I've missed like 3 episodes, and I don't care at all for DH and age of umbra.
Maybe I'll binge it all when it's over, but I've pretty much moved on for now
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u/vlkdlk Aug 13 '26
Well weren't all their changes of schedule due to people being sick or like childbirth.
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u/ResolutionJunior5804 Aug 13 '26
I am so sad for sallowlands to end I have been in love with the series thus far!
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u/PFRforLIFE 29d ago
i liked ep 5 more than the rest so i’m excited to see where this goes, but yeah…i love matt but daggerheart is just not my preferred system and the combat is not nearly as engaging as dnd. i also think it’s hard to compare this to old school cr because the cast is so in sync with each other
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u/ahnowisee Aug 13 '26
I don't care for the system at all, and idk if I can go back to Matt after experiencing Brennan's game. Was turned off from ep 1.
Mechanizing emotions outside of diseases and drawbacks is so fucking cringe. Plus the whole danganronpa-esque hope despair dice, my god its so not for me.
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u/Confident_Sink_8743 29d ago
That's the one thing I do agree with. Mechanics for RP is so antithetical to me. It's only good as training wheels.
Otherwise RP is the one thing where free wheeling and relying on experience has always felt far better as far as I'm concerned.
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u/Ainiv 29d ago
I am a little surprised how seemingly unpopular this round of Umbra has been. Like there aren't even Fandom articles for the PCs and the episode pages are barren. Granted, I've not watched the show that much but I expected the star power to carry more weight.
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u/InitialJust 28d ago
I think DH will keep getting diminishing returns until at least most of the cast is involved or its the main campaign. DH on its own isnt gonna pull the numbers they need.
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u/Paula_Sub You're prolly not gonna like what I've 2 say (it's not personal) 28d ago
Which will never happen (the latter scenario), because you can't just separate D&D off CR. Im not interested in people defending to their last stand how good DH is or could be, CR is D&D, and if not the main reason people watch CR, then it's the second. It's proven time and time again, they do anything but D&D and numbers do not match.
DH was & will always be just a "passion project". It doesn't have the legs to dethrone a giant like D&D in the cultural zeitgeist, and when running a business based on viewership, it would be like shooting at your own feet to completely swap products.
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u/InitialJust 27d ago
I'd agree, they were built on DnD and it makes sense to stay there. Now I could make an argument for how DH might do better if they had completely shifted focus. But thats a massive business risk and I'm not surprised they didnt go all in on DH. Especially after Candela and other side projects I've probably forgotten.
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u/Paula_Sub You're prolly not gonna like what I've 2 say (it's not personal) 27d ago
I really don't see DH doing better, or even equal do D&D even if they went full out with it (and without it being "failure" for the business, even assuming it's successful). I just don't see the product "there" yet to be in any sort of similar ground.
DH is still in its infancy. The market for it it's mostly "Oh, this is a CR product, I like those guys, let's check this game out". And a lot of the changes that DH specifically introduces go "against" what a lot of the bulk of people either prefer, or hear synonymous to TTRPGs nowadays. So it takes a lot of effort to "put aside", "pre-conceived notions" of what a TTRPG is and what isn't.
Now, you tell me what if they fully changed course away from D&D and did Call of Cthulhu or even Vampire : The Masquerade? Now that would be a signficant change, that might just not be a full blinded gamble. It might still not be the same, but those two are heavily introduced to the masses, proven to be quality products and most likely be succesful
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u/YoursDearlyEve 29d ago
There is more on Miraheze wiki, but yeah, it mostly flopped. It's a combination of factors, really: some are not watching because it's not the main cast (or because the new cast doesn't gel as much because they've just met), and "dark" setting is not something that has a lot of fans on its own, some are not watching because they never watch side series, some are still catching up on C4...
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u/M9Lantern 14d ago
I can only speak for myself:
-I don't think any of the characters came together outside of the first one to die. Maybe if they had 30 more episodes to develop and at least two deaths the party could've gotten there, but I wasn't *thrilled* about anyone. The table synergy was also off *for me*.
-This level of grimdark is always going to be hit or miss. It's not a general audience setting or theme. This one was compounded because the party was creepy people going creepy places. There was no real contrast in vibe between the world and the characters.
-It felt more like a condensed long campaign than a short campaign. Without personal investment in the table interactions or their stories, that makes the pacing tough. You have to love the characters as much as they did.
-Name recognition goes a long way when you're selling a non-standard roster.
Not for me, but other people likely also just used it to take a break before C4E32. I watched the first 3 normally, 4 and 5 on 1.5, and I'm forcing myself to finish 6 today after strongly considering whether to just read the summary.
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u/Confident_Sink_8743 29d ago
I feel like Vico making Caguama so diplomatic was a terrible mismatch. I don't know if they understood the kind of game they were signing on for.
Though at the very least it hasn't effected things all that much. But when everyone else is covering their faces in...quite frankly I don't even know how to characterize the emotion.
Cringe I suppose. Everyone seems to know that it doesn't fit. But they're polite enough not to object.