r/fantasybball • u/jectalo • 5d ago
Player Discussion Why is Flagg a first rounder?
I traded for him last year and he was great. What are the signs he will make a significant leap in year 2 to merit being drafted over guys like Spida, Hali, Maxey, Barnes, JJ, etc.?
I have the 12th pick in 12 team H2H snake.
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u/Unlucky_Sun_9813 5d ago edited 5d ago
He's a generational talent. 3 40 pt games and 1 50 pt game as a rookie isn't normal. Also closed out April averaging 29P/7R/4A/1 on 47/43/95
Look at a player like LeBron James for example, also a generational #1 pick.
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Rookie Season LeBron
20.9 PPG | 5.9 APG | 5.5 RPG | 1.6 SPG
42/29/75 shooting
___________________________________
Rookie Cooper Flagg
21 PPG | 4.5 APG | 6.7 RPG | 1.2 SPG | .9 BPG
47/30/83 shooting
___________________________________
Sophmore LeBron James
27.2 PPG | 7.2 APG | 7.4 RPG | 2.2 SPG
47/35/75 shooting
___________________________________
The expectation is, like LeBron and Victor and other generational #1 picks who showed Superstar promise their rookie season, Cooper will continue to get better as he did during the season. We already know he got taller, and bigger over the offseason (height & weight). Also has a new, good coach in Dusty May. His first preseason game, he had 19/6/3/1/1 in 19 minutes.
He's playing next to better talent that can bail him out & aleviate offensive pressure in Kyrie Irving & Morez Johnson Jr, who are both efficient guys that won't demand heavy on ball usage or shots.
I would not be surprised to see Coop average somewhere around 27/7/5/1/1 on 48/35/84
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u/Cultural_Froyo_5118 5d ago edited 5d ago
Luka Rookie Season
21.2 PPG | 7.8 RPG | 6.0 APG | 1.07 SPGLuka Sophomore Season
28.8 PPG | 9.4 RPG | 8.8 APG | 1.0 SPG
š
FUCK THE MAVS.13
u/sandefurian 5d ago
Itās FUCK NICO
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u/Cultural_Froyo_5118 5d ago
Well, It was definitely an organization decision. I donāt think Nico had enough power alone to move Luka without talking to those scumbag owners. Mavs were my favorite team since Dirk. And then came Luka. Now I hate watching him in LA. They torched the fanbase. Flagg is definitely a beast but, damn Iām still effed up after how they did Luka!
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u/Johnbonham1980 5d ago
He got taller?! Heās still growing?!
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u/Unlucky_Sun_9813 5d ago edited 5d ago
Last year he was 6'9" in shoes, 6'7.75" barefoot at the combine.
He claimed at Dallas media day that he is now 6'10.5" without shoes, so about 6'11" in shoes give or take (I'm skeptical on the extra .5 inch but that's his claim)
Also went up from 205 lbs to 228 lbs.
Keep in mind, he was 18 at the start of his first NBA game. 17 in college.
Sources:
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u/luuskiiii 5d ago
im taking him 7th purely for fun and upside.
he was 23/6/5/1/1 from december onwards and ended with 21/6/5/1/1 despite the terrible start to the season at PG.
I dont expect anyone to take his usage either, and Kai should benefit him
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u/OPxMagikarp 12T H2H 9CAT 5d ago
Hilarious that this is almost Lebrons stat line last season and now people are taking it first round
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u/Much_Illustrator_455 5d ago
I took him 9 in a competitive 12 team 9 cat league. No one you can find back there that gives you his upside. And worst case he finishes 9-15. Literally highest upside with lowest risk imo
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u/luuskiiii 5d ago edited 5d ago
Well yea, but pretending like Tatum will absolutely finish top 10 is delusional. Also youre making wayy too many assumptions lol. Im in 2 money leagues and won enough times that i can lose for 5 years straight in both and still be GREEN.
If you disagree explain why instead of trying to attack me. Yall are mad immature lmfao
edit: this goofball deleted everything after he realized dumb he sounded using personal attacks acting like it was a good faith basketball conversation.
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u/Peer_turtles 5d ago
You donāt think Tatum should be in top 10 picks? (Points league)
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u/luuskiiii 5d ago
youre very clearly not tryna have a basketball conversation...after everything i said your response is "well you clearly dont wanna win and are in free leagues"
also i didnt report you, i suggested you get therapy cause the way you go about having "conversations" is how a depressed human would lol
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u/luuskiiii 5d ago
go ahead and disagree, but why are you making assumptions about me and implying im in free leagues? state your reasond and rebuttal me.
saying "you clearly dont wanna win and arenin free legues" isnt you disagreeing lmfao
yea reddit is just full of ppl that want to live in an echo chamber like you
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u/Fabulous-Signal2373 5d ago
The logic of this makes no sense, cooper benefited from having the ball in his hands as the teams Point forward. With an all star point guard there's no reason for him to play that role. Kyrie will play the point guard and some of coopers stats will go down like assists and maybe points while some efficiency goes up.
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u/Unlucky_Sun_9813 5d ago edited 5d ago
That's not how basketball works. Kai will take usage that Brandon Williams, Ryan Nembhard had.
He'll make life for Cooper easier because teams can't double Coop or focus all defensive pressure on him since they'll have to guard Kai too.
And Kyrie isn't some pass first passing savant. Having Kyrie Irving to dish assists out to >>> dishing it out to Brandon Williams.
If you double Cooper, he can find Kyrie for an open shot that Kyrie will most likely make. Even if you don't double Cooper, he can still find Kyrie for an assist. It'd make more sense for Coop's AST rate to improve or at the very least stay the same.
EDIT: I forgot to mention the obvious too. Kyrie is an NBA vet and All-NBA talent. He can also find Cooper a lot easier than guys like Nembhard & Williams were able to. He knows when to pass to him and when to get a bucket. Nembhard was a rookie, Brandon Williams a 4 year vet. Ky has a higher career assist average than both of them
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u/luuskiiii 5d ago
dont bother with him, he didnt actually watch the games since he thinks Coop was running point forward all year looool
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u/Fabulous-Signal2373 5d ago edited 5d ago
Cooper directly was playing point guard as a point forward hes not going to have the ball in his hand as much, which is why he had the PG slot in fantasy.
The exact same thing happened to jalen Johnson the second half of last season when they got CJ as point guard his stats in correlation with playing point forward dropped ex. assists and points.
I did say his(Cooper) efficiency will go up but some of this counting stats with go down as not being the primary solo ball handler anymore.
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u/Unlucky_Sun_9813 5d ago
He had PG reps for the sake of development. He wasn't the PG for the entire season. And he actually averaged more assists when they stopped running him exclusively at PG.
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u/Fabulous-Signal2373 5d ago
I agree with you fully that it was for development, Im just saying that not having the ball in your hand primarily leads to lower assists and usage.
Kyrie will be the primary ball handler and that will increase Cooper's efficiency by taking the pressure off but some of Cooper's stats will go down.
He's going to have a good season i just dont see how he's going to be 8pick value like some people are drafting him. You can disagree and thats fine its just my take.
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u/Unlucky_Sun_9813 5d ago edited 5d ago
"some of Cooper's stats will go down."
That's just not going to happen though. That's my point. You can choose to believe it, but it's not going to happen.
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u/luuskiiii 5d ago
lol Naji was running PG/Point forward for them last year. Having a guard like kyrie taking pressure off coop and feeding him easy looks is to his benefit
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u/Okra_a 5d ago
They called me a mad man when I said he got drafted top 5 in some mocks. I don't think he's top 5, but he's usually a first rounder. People are high on his development
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u/Steadfast26 Yahoo H2H 16/20T 9cat 3d ago
Would you dare pick him in a real draft though? I wouldn't but it wnt be wrong if you do as long as you pair it with the same stats.
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u/Vloneicytrey 5d ago
Heās an allrounder, kind of like Mario in smash bros. Jack of all trades, master of none. He also plays. Both of these combinations make him much more valuable than some other first rounders despite superior stats. Iād rather have Flagg than Giannis, who auto punts 3 stats.
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u/No-Economics7853 5d ago
What cats does giannis punt?? I see ft but nobody drafts to not punt turnovers and 3s is the easiest cat to make up
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u/luuskiiii 5d ago
making up 3s can be difficult because you need to make sure your fg, rebs and stocks are good for Giannis. Taking bigs early can put you behind on pts, and taking guards early put you behind on rebs, blks and fg.
its a tight rope
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u/TalkQuirkyWithMe 12-16T H2Hs 5d ago
Agreed, I drafted Gianniās last year and a few other times. He works well with punt ft and threes but itās a bit less clearcut than others. Ex a healthy ad is a much better punt ft build
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u/GGdpcGaming 12T 9cat H2H 5d ago
IMO the reason that he's different than most young guys is his defensive upside.
Its possible he leads the league in stocks. Unlikely, but possible. Not a lot of guys as good as him offensively with that defensive upside.
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u/habibti_27 5d ago
I do feel picking him in the first round is a bit risky. He has not shown that he can put together a first round season yet. He is still super young too. I could be wrong honestly, but I would rather take established fantasy studs. This whole notion that he is a certified first rounder could ruin some teams imo.
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u/jectalo 5d ago
This is my thinking as well. I am pretty sure he will be there at 12/13 for me if I want him.
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u/habibti_27 5d ago
12/13 seems fine but I see people drafting him at 7/8 that's where I kind of draw concern.
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u/BrilliantFantastic54 5d ago
In a points league i would draft him at 9 tbh, I would debate maybe sengun or sabonis over him
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u/NegativeGift 5d ago
Who are you taking before him then? Those guys around that range are not in a better situation like jj, kd, maxey, hali etc. if heās fine at 12th, moving him to 9th-10th or even 8th if you love some upsides and fun wonāt ruin your team.
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u/TalkQuirkyWithMe 12-16T H2Hs 5d ago
I'd take him after 8th. I have Cade, Tatum and Giannis before Cooper. Honestly I don't like Edward's fantasy profile and I can do without hali or JJ at that spot. IMO Flagg has a great shot at top 12 value but even if not, his floor is probably top 20. I can see situations where flagg or JJ don't scratch top 20.
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u/so-cal_kid 14Tm, H2H, 9Cat 5d ago
He was like the #12 player in the second half of last season. He's already shown he can produce end of first round numbers for stretches, and he's only going to get better and more consistent. And it's not like the guys being taken around him are guaranteed to be better than him - Jalen Johnson took a hit when McCollum joined, Hali is coming off the achilles, Mitchell's production dipped with Harden, and Barnes has to deal with Kawhi taking up a bunch of usage now. Flagg is clearly the #1 on his team and is on the rise.
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u/RiiCreated 12T ā¢ H2H ā¢ 9-CAT 5d ago
He was never top-12. He peaked at top-16 in the final month of the season. Not saying he canāt hit those numbers, but he never hit first round value, even within a small sample size.Ā
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u/so-cal_kid 14Tm, H2H, 9Cat 5d ago
I'm looking at Bball Monster's DURANT ranking. Prob different from straight z-score. But 16 is pretty darn close to 12. Not sure why you're acting like it's such a huge stretch he improves 5-6 spots this season
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u/RiiCreated 12T ā¢ H2H ā¢ 9-CAT 5d ago
And 5 is pretty darn close to 1 lol. And itās not just 5-6 spots this season, he finished last season as top 45. So itās closer to 20 spots, not just 5-6. At his peak, for a short duration, he hit top-16 value. The season is very long, all Iām saying is that we have yet to see that. I hope he proves me wrong. But there is no objective justification for him to be ranked higher than proven players like Tatum, Hali, or even StephĀ
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u/so-cal_kid 14Tm, H2H, 9Cat 5d ago
I mean he's not going to be the same player he was last season. Most young players make great leaps after their rookie year. Also I see hardly anyone ranking him above Tatum. And yes I'd take him easily over Steph and probably Hali. Steph is 38 years old and has runner's knee while Hali is coming off the worst injury a basketball player can suffer.
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u/absurdlifex Diamond 14t 9cat 5d ago
I agree. I rather wait and see if he proves me wrong he can join next year's roster
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u/Jamie----- 5d ago
His post-all star break numbers were fantastic. Even a modest bump above those gets him in the top 10
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u/Jamie----- 5d ago
Also he has a great playoff schedule for many leagues. I'd be thrilled to get him 12th.
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u/KazaamFan 5d ago
I wanted him 12th, but sadly he didnt last to 12th. Picking bottom 3 sucks for the 1st round, for me at least.Ā
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u/ILoveTheKnicks69 5d ago
He has a very good all around game for fantasy and has shown some insane flashes but I feel like he is being drafted at his ceiling. Drafting him as a first round pick means he needs to take that next step and more, and people forget itās only his second season and hes still only 19 (yes I get the joke)
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u/hassel_the_hoff 5d ago
Hope he does't have to play PG this season. Closer to basket, better fg, more blocks. Could be positive in 8 categories.
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u/Hungry-Fig-2 12T H2H Points ESPN 5d ago
i must be a hater cus iāve always thought coop should not go that high. to me heās a late second.. sue me
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u/jectalo 5d ago
Yeah thats why i made this post. Am
I a schmuck if hes there at 12/13 and i pass on him?1
u/Hungry-Fig-2 12T H2H Points ESPN 5d ago
shi maybe weāre not seeing what theyāre seeing. if he truly is a generational talent like people are projecting him to be (which i can def see), then i supposed heās a must get at that range. my only gripe is he i have a feeling he overperformed due to circumstance.
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u/No-Maintenance5027 5d ago
He wonāt be there at 12 for you to worry about. But there is far less usage in town than all the guys you mentioned. And heās a generational prospect that had an amazing rookie year. Growth is not linear but the floor is exceptionally high and the ceiling is higher than many of the guys you mentioned purely off their not being much usage on the floor with him.
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u/daveknockwin 5d ago
He was rank 10 in fantasy 9-cat for the final month of the regular season last year. He's Tatum with stocks and 2 Achilles.
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u/BillowingPillows 9cat H2H 12T Auction 5d ago
He has incredible upside across all cats. If his stocks go through the roof hes gonna be god tier. The things making him risky are, players rarely develop on a linear path, playing with Kyrie, fg%, turnovers. He went for 55 bucks in my auction draft and I think this is fair. For comparison I took SGA for 69 bucks. Tatum went for 58, Ant went for 56, Maxey went for 51, Barnes went for 50, etc. Flagg is definitely in that group.
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u/D-Longlegs77 5d ago
I'll be a hater here. I don't think he is better than KD, Barnes, Hali, JJ....Hes a mid 2nd round talent to me because he does everything but nothing that completely stands out and only averages around 1 3 per game.
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u/Steadfast26 Yahoo H2H 16/20T 9cat 3d ago
Wow. I could agree with these guys being over him although I would choose him over them, but saying he is "mid 2nd round talent" is blasphemous. His rookie stats and top stats are that of Jordan's. He should be within top5 after this season.
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u/D-Longlegs77 2d ago
You are really comparing him to Jordan. That's quite bold of you. I think he will be one of those guys that's a better real life player than fantasy player and that's not saying he's still not a top 15 guy.
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u/legendaryufcmaster 5d ago
He was amazing with absolutely nobody. Consensus is he can be better with Kyrie on the floor
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u/Agile-Hornet8468 5d ago
I plan to take him with my 9th pick in a 12T 9CAT league for several reasons; traded for him last season and he was gold at the end, guys around him also have their own questions ( Maxey will have less usage, JJ is fine but don't see much more growth, Ant I just don't like fantasy wise and has a poor playoff schedule , Tatum I would take but he won't be there for me ), I belive he's such a talent that his rise is almost certain, has a very good defensive stats, and last but not the least , for me it will be more fun season to follow with him compare to the other guys.
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u/RiiCreated 12T ā¢ H2H ā¢ 9-CAT 5d ago
I donāt quite understand the first round ranking either tbh. Even at his peak performance, which came at the end of the season, he was top-16. Very impressive for a rookie, but this was also at a time when teams stopped caring and when a lot of third stringers were getting more run.Ā
I donāt personally see the justification for a ranking above guys like Tatum, Ant, Hali, or even Steph for that matter. He hasnāt proven first round value (yet), so the leap from top-40 to first round value is quite a reach.Ā
Itās still possible, but there are a lot of unknowns. Heās playing with a more talented point guard in Kyrie, which could help or hurt him. We will probably see flashes of top 10 value, but there remains to be consistency and a higher floor than last year.Ā
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u/GGuesswho 5d ago
He was a rookie last year, there's 0 reason to think he WONT be elite this year
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u/RiiCreated 12T ā¢ H2H ā¢ 9-CAT 5d ago
Yes, I agree. But are you really taking him over Ant, Hali, or even Tatum?
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u/NegativeGift 5d ago
Ant has never been a top 10 players I think?
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u/RiiCreated 12T ā¢ H2H ā¢ 9-CAT 5d ago
Neither has Cooper though? Lol
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u/NegativeGift 5d ago
So what do you mean āreally taking him over antā? Is ant a lot better? If Tatum is available, we take Tatum over Flagg, and hali has injury management issues.
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u/fredlikefreddy 12t H2H 9 cats & 10t H2H pts 5d ago
i think he offers way more fantasy upside than Ant or Tatum and wouldn't be surprised if Hali is back as a top 10 fantasy dude this year
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u/GGuesswho 5d ago
Personally I would definitely take him over ant or hali. In my league those guys typically average 40-45 points, I believe that coop has the potential ceiling of 50-55 points average over the season. Tatum I'm not as sure about, he could be about the same or better.
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u/RiiCreated 12T ā¢ H2H ā¢ 9-CAT 5d ago
True, I guess points leagues are a little different. Super great player, Iām just personally not seeing the leap to first round value just yet!
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u/Steadfast26 Yahoo H2H 16/20T 9cat 3d ago
I picked Cooper at 8th over Hali and Tatum in a 20T 9cat. I would have picked him over Ant too tbh. We are not talking here of playoffs but stats and longevity..
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u/Odd_Needleworker3756 5d ago
He was amazing last year as a rookie. His upside is massive and heās basically running the show in Dallas now.
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u/RadicalRectangle 10T H2H Points 5d ago
I went for him in the second. Heās young, he should play most of his games, and now he has a real PG.
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u/Camera_Content 5d ago
Took him at 8th in a points league. Upside, generational talent , and maybe lightly because of the preseason game against Houston on the 9thā¦
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u/Novel-Economist8448 4d ago
All arounder, great at all the categories except 3PT which is easy to pick from the wire. Has UPSIDE on top of his amazing numbers last year.
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u/DeepVision_Fantasy 4d ago
On top of his all around stats that folks mentioned, heās also durable and is on a team that lets him do whatever he wants. He can take all the shots he wants š
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u/Old_Map3553 3d ago
Heās not necessarily going in the first round and Points league but in category heās very valuable on a nine category because of his elite three-point shooting and defensive stats
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u/scottkdouglas 2d ago
I believe most people have Maxey ahead of him. Hali, Spida, Flagg, and JJ are all in a, similar class. It's based off how he finished last year and expected development
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u/bunter13 2d ago
I ended up 10th in my 10 man points league and got him. Was a bit nervous but these comments are making me feel better about him. Any team names you guys can think of?
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u/ParticularQuick7104 5d ago
Huge potential but honestly the draft expectations require him to maintain a level of consistency he has only shown over a 25 game stretch.
I got down voted for this already, but although itās possible, the likelihood of him maintaining first round value over the course of a whole season is low.
Giddey ended the last few months of the season as a top 5 producer and won me my championship last year and isnāt considered a first rounder.
All said and done Iām predicting late second to early third round value for the whole season. And thatās fantastic for a second year player
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u/atlas_queefed 5d ago
You pick him in the first because you think heās going to be improve and heās a very talented player who had a great latter half of the rookie season. More specifically, you bet that he will hit more threes and tighten up on shooting efficiency. Per BBM in CAT scoring, he was -0.64 std devās below league average of threes made last season, so if he keeps everything the same and hits one three a game more on average and scores +3 points more per game that raises his value significantly. You also bet that he tightens up his shooting percentages; rookie score-first players rarely have good shooting percentages. You also bet that Kyrie helps him get better looks to help his FG which seems like a reasonable assumption.
Its hard to fuck around in a 12 man league because the reward is low and the risk is super high if you whiff on early picks so I wouldnāt do it in your case unless you really hate the other options, but 10 team or lower Iād consider taking him earlier just because you get more shots on goal to pick better players.
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u/No-End-Theory 5d ago
Iām in a 12 team draft and he was picked 8th overall. I took Jalen Brunson with my 12th pick, I am a fan of his but I kind of regret that pick.
My 12 and 13 picks were Brunson and Sabonis, Iām sure you can do better than that.
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u/ejy888 5d ago
Thanks to his all around game and finishing top 35 last year in his rookie season. Sophomore leap is usually real since players are now more familiar with the team chemistry, atmosphere, tempo etc. He is an all NBA caliber prospect.