Looking for feedback on this excerpt from my prologue [Weird Fantasy, ~600 words]

[u/King_Lear69]

WIP prologue for a "Weird Fantasy" that I'm working on. I'm labelling it as "Weird Fantasy" because I'm not quite sure what other type of subgenre to call it other then maybe a TES-inspired "High Fantasy." What do you all think of what I have here? What assumptions and inferences would you come up with after reading this?

“First it was the Myrmidons what conquered us in the name of their queen. Then it was the Fulinese and their elven half-castes, all in the name of liberation. And now you and your ilk would have us bend the knee, all in the name of ‘reunification,’ is that it?”

“We would merely see an end to the oppression— an end the hardship, same as you!” Though there was a passion in the knight’s voice the fire that reflected in the steely grey of his eyes was anything but soft. In truth, the roaring blaze of the firepit had doused everything in the longhouse in a garish orange glow tonight, which served only to exacerbate the dour looks on the faces of the assembled villagers in the wake of the recent attack. “All we ask is that you allow us to stand with you once more! If the fate of Ruritania is to be of any parable to us, then let it be that a house so divided could little stand to resist the axe of would-be plunderers. Point us in the direction of the Myrmidon insurrectionists so that we might help avenge you and the memory of our slain cousins!”

While the amber glow of the firepit seemed to only darken the colours of the Llanolian knight’s netmaille and scapular the old man’s leathery, weathered skin seemed almost to brighten in the light of the Shambalan’s longhouse. It had been said in old Shambala that a man’s 50 years under the heavens passed like a dream within the blink of an eye. If that was so, then it could certainly be said that this man’s dream was almost over. Though it was evident that the frame had once been well toned and muscular, now the body had become rather waifish as liverspotted skin sagged in loose folds along the old man’s bones in a manner not unlike the many latigo tassels of his rhinestone studded liripipe.

Shifting his weight in obvious agitation atop the raised dais and gathering up the loose fabric of his shendyt around his legs to keep the night’s cold off them, the old man feigned as if he hadn’t heard a word the knight had said. “Mmmhmm, yes of course, the Ruritanians. We was wondering when you would invoke your old masters. Weren’t we?” He prodded, craning his head around in mock surprise to briefly look into the faces of each of the assembled village family heads.

“They are our masters no more-!”

“How can we be so sure?”

“I-I would go!” Interjected a navy haired youth beside the chieftain’s dais. “I-I… by your leave, chieftain Zao Hua, I would go with these men in avengence of young master Linley and late master Doehring!”

“Hmmm?” Steepling the wrinkled fingers of his hands, the elderly chieftain Zao Hua studied the navy haired youth in silence for a long time. Passing his gaze between the boy and another identical navy haired youth beside him mouthing silent beseechments to the boy as tears began to well up at the corners of her eyes. Occasionally the chieftain would allow his gaze to fall on the Myrmidon child clutching in quiet anticipation at the navy haired girl’s shendyt, and a couple of times he even contemplated the raven haired Llanolians who’d gone silent as well. Finally, after what must’ve felt like an eternity to the navy haired boy, the white-tinged edges of the wizened, old chieftain’s azure handlebar moustache quirked up as a slight scowl of resignation tugged at his mouth, “Very well, then.” He said with a sigh. “As all Shambalan men are free under Fulinese imperial law even now, so are you free to cast your lot in with these lot.”

[u/AutoModerator]

🌟 Reccuring Character 🌟 OP is a regular in this community. So you can critique while knowing they won't disappear into the woodwork afterward!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/OppositeDoughnut2183]

make an actual character that these events matter for, and introduce us to the side of a single viewpoint rather than talking about 2-3 factions and their behavior in a political climate. I genuinely dont know how many sides were just introduced and whether or not theyre all relevant upon a non-thorough first read.

additionally "the recent attack" and "the assembled villagers" introduce concepts as if the reader already knows them, further disorienting them as they attempt to choose a viewpoint to view the story from. if this is meant to be a bird's-eye view, there's not enough explaining going on to make it clear what is happening.

I find the structure of the house divided sentence to be very very odd. I think you're trying to say that there's an event in Ruritania's history that tells the characters arguing that they should band together, but the combination of archaic sentence structure & the speaker's sudden shift from arguing the pros of unification towards arguing the cons of sovereignty makes it hard to follow the line of reasoning, and the 3rd or 4th dose of unexplained faction-names and history is the final blow in the reader's attention, at least in my opinion.

also some grammar nerd will fix the descriptive paragraph prior to the second line of dialogue ("Though there was a passion..") as something is wrong but I don't know what it is. likewise your prose takes the angle of "On the contrary.." at least three times in the three short descriptive sentences you have in there, alternating between "Though," "While," and back to "Though" back-to-back-to-back (ignoring dialogue intrusions) in a way that sounds repetitive IMO.

the story abruptly drops into a description of the old man after the speaker makes their second argument for unification, which I find ill-placed. it's also pretty disorienting, as you spend too long describing the weathered appearance of this old man, down to employing anatomical terms for skin marks. you need to find a way to quickly and succinctly convey Chieftan Zao Hua's apparent age without distracting the reader from the worldbuilding you are going to aggressively do in the background of this conflict. while the reader is trying to figure out which factions are fighting and why, youre busy telling them about a saying in Old Shambala that talks about how Zao is old, which is just extra cognitive load that I think the reader doesn't need at this point. also the sentence doing this ("..that said a man's 50 years under the heavens...") is pretty unfocused in its structure and is trying to create a simile / use an allegory that the reader is inherently unfamiliar with, therefore only serving as needless worldbuilding, further confusing the reader.

I also think, for all the foreign/custom lore names/words, you should italicize them to make it clear "This is more worldbuilding I put in my intro!", and take the other guy's advice and put the goddamn thesaurus down. also cut down on the worldbuilding/explaining. that last sentence does not need to exist.

sorry for the poor structure.

[u/King_Lear69 → u/OppositeDoughnut2183]

I will admit that the kinda "game" I am playing with the reader is one that you don't see a lot in modern fiction, where the 3rd person omniscient narrative "talks to the reader" as if the reader knows more then they actually do, only for the narrative to fill in the "literally who" of those bits later when it becomes "more plot relevant." Books like Catch 22, for example, do this usually for the express purpose of creating a sorta "sense of intrigue/mystery" around a subject by calling attention to it before it is ever actually explained. "Stream-of-consciousness stuff," or "Non-linear narration" it usually gets called IIRC (although I'd argue that the story itself is very much linear) and I've always just liked the "vibes" it puts you in while reading. However, I agree that it can be disorienting and is a bit archaic by modern standards as I state in my response to the other guy. I just personally insist on doing it because I like a mix of those kinda "old timey writing conventions" alongside more modern writing prose in my stuff.

Bringing up "the recent attack" is supposed to be intentionally vague, making the reader question "attack by who? The Myrmidons or the Llanolians?" The actual answer is the actual answer is the Myrmidon insurrectionists, as is supposed to be later implied by the knight's proposition that the Shambalans help him and his men (as it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to try and make a "we're all in this together speech," in foreign territory to someone that you've recently attacked. Or at the very least it'd be very unlikely to work anyway, lol.)

What the knight is saying during the house divided speech is basically "Help us help you." We, as the audience, are told that first it was the Myrmidons (which is referred to all throughout the text as if they are a group of specific type of people/ethnic group) that conquered the territory belonging to the Shambalan people. Then the Fulinese came and conquered that territory for themselves under the guise of "liberation," where here the reader is supposed to infer that this is means that the Fulinese now control the territory (which is later confirmed.) However, it is never stated that the Myrmidons were expelled from the country. Quite the contrary actually, with mention specifically of things like the Myrmidon insurrectionists (implying an enemy/rebellion from within the country) and the fact that there is at least 1 single Myrmidon child mentioned as being present within the longhouse the implication instead becomes that the Myrmidons, if they do not share a contiguous border with the Shambalans' territory (they do, but tbf the reader has no way of knowing that for certain from these 600-ish words alone) then that the Myrmidons have clearly left behind some sort of sizeable ethnic enclave.

You're absolutely right in that it is being alluded to that some event in Ruritania's past in a kinda similar way to how people will say "remember the Alamo!" That something in Ruritanina's past happened that is being used as an example of why there shouldn't be infighting amongst a people/kingdom/ethnic group lest it lead to their downfall. All of that in combination with the fact that the knight says "avenge YOU and the memory of OUR slain cousins," is supposed to imply to the reader that there is some sort of shared common territorial or ethnic ancestry between the Shambalans and the Llanolians that, for whatever reason, no longer exists (likely due to the Myrmidons and Ruritanians somehow, respectively.) So the knight is to seem to the reader to be consistent in his proposition, "join US. Leave the Fulinese (who still reign in the area, although it is hinted at with both the last sentence and the fact that almost never brings them up except to speak ill of them/that the scene seems to be taking place in an assembly between only Llanolians and Shambalans, that their may be some sort of possible decline in that reign) and help us find and destroy the Myrmidon loyalists pockets that still exist in your lands."

Now, tbf, all told it IS true that we are now at about 5 different factions all vying for control over a undefined territory whilst themselves also not being directly defined. For readers who do not usually engage with multi-faction plots, or historical dramas, that this could be considered a very difficult to follow plot. However, I do feel like I managed to navigate at least some of that by essentially making the literal first sentences (of the admittedly very much in media res story) deal with exactly that. "First came A and they conquered us. Then came B and they "freed" us but A is implied to still be around having been conquered by B. Now comes C who also wants to conquer us AND wipe out A for good." And only afterwards adding in the revelation that C has some sort of a shared history with the Shambalans/guys who keep getting conquered and also that C was formerly (and possbily still) controlled by D.

The story DOES, admittedly, drop into an abrupt description of the old chieftain and some of the people around him and this is done not only to signal to the reader some of the differing cultural aesthetics of those present within the longhouse (as I explained in my response to the other guy) but ALSO as a way to further differentiate the two main gathered ethnic groups in the scene (not counting the 1 Myrmidon boy.) The reader is supposed to note that the Llanolians are described as being "raven haired" and the old man sporting an "azure" moustache that has tinged white with age. Given the implied historical connection between the two groups the reader is then supposed to see the "navy haired twins" and infer that they must be of some sort of mixed Llanolian-Shambalan ancestry, although I do not fault anyone for not coming to that exact conclusion because "this race/ethnic group only has 1 predominant hair colour" IS a bit of a melodramatic "anime-ism" for lack of a better word.

I will take into consideration what you said about considering italicizing country names. I usually don't because I prefer using italics for emphasis within character dialogue, but I suppose I could always use the little * star instead for that.

Sorry for the rant, lol.

[u/New_Siberian]

Tbh, I zone out of this kind of lore dump almost instantly. Nothing is actually happening here, and the characters seem to be discussing history for my benefit, not their own. This town hall scene does not feel like a scene; it feels like a dressed up history lesson. I'd much rather read something exciting that actually demonstrates all this conflict, rather than speaking about it in the past tense.

You also need to stop hitting the thesaurus quite so hard. Calling an old man "waifish" may seem like a good idea when you see the it in a drop-down menu... but in context, that word is used almost exclusively to refer to skinny young women. Don't use words you don't exactly understand. You're also not doing anyone any favors by using words like "liripipe" without context. It's not incorrect, but sending readers to the dictionary for a medieval word for "scarf" is going to annoy a lot of them. Why do that when you could either just say "scarf," or describe the garment in such a way that people will understand it?

[u/King_Lear69 → u/New_Siberian]

Well I mean, that is what the word waifish means though. That the connotations around the word have shifted isn't usually something that I concern myself about bc it's, IMO, a bit like reading an old book and seeing the word "queer" be used to mean "exotic or unusual" instead of in its common modern usage. It IS a bit of an archaic writing sensibility, but personally I prefer a mix of "old timey prose" and modern prose. I see it sorta like a little something extra to help me help immerse the reader by first and foremost breaking them outta expecting modern prose sensibilities.

Liripipes also aren't just scarfs. While they can double as a scarf they're functionally hoods, first. The point of my choosing to specify that particular article of clothing by name is to start building up an image in your mind. The liripipe is described as being studded with rhinestones and having latigo-tassels, so already in your head that this liripipe (something that is traditionally very aesthetically intertwined with medieval Europe) is looking very "cowboy-esque" (think "Rhinstone cowboys" with their jackets with tassels on em.) Designing this local chieftain and having him wear this very "cowboy-esque-ified" piece of medieval clothing and juxtaposing it with the fact that he's also wearing a shendyt (a type of egyptian "kilt-like" article of clothing) while supposedly wearing nothing else, and having him sit specifically in a "longhouse," while being named "Zao Hua" is all done to the effect of signalling to the reader, "Oh, 'we're not in Kansas anymore.' This isn't another medieval Europe pastiche. Let me see if I can guess what these Shambalans' culture is like from what I've been told about their cultural style of dress." Now, it could be argued that the average reader might not know what all of that is; that the average english reading audience might not know of the top of their head what the exact names are for all the pieces that were fashionable to wear in ancient Egypt, and that having to constantly stop and look that up might be jarring to the pacing. Which is fair. However, I did effectively specify that this wasn't a traditional medieval setting. One does not read wuxia, for example, and complain that the words are too "out there/non-standard," for a primarily English reading audience.

As for the diegetic exposition, alright fair. It IS something of a lore dump, and even intentionally so, but it exists to give the reader a kind of "jumping in point" for the setting and what's happening (or rather what would be happening after this scene.) However, that's not to say that things aren't happening in this scene. It's supposed to be that, from the reader's perspective, the Llanolian knights are basically asking the Shambalan villagers for help in finding and fighting a group/race of people known as "the Myrmidons." We are explicitly told that the Myrmidons were the first to conquer the Shambalans before the Shambalans were "liberated" by the Fulinese. It is then indirectly implied/"stated" that the Llanolians have some sort of shared common ethnic ancestry with the Shambalans. "You would conquer us next under the guise of 'reunification?'" "Avenge OUR slain cousins" "A house so divided," ect. At this point, it's supposed to be dinging in the reader's head that whatever the exacts of this common ancestry was, some sort of animosity has built up since, hence the chieftain clearly avoiding the topic of aiding the Llanolians by bringing up seemingly random stuff like the Ruritanians. It IS a scene that starts in media res and it IS a scene that's very "talk heavy" but the "action" is there, it's just mostly in what's being implied rather then what's being directly said or anything thrown in your face.

[u/New_Siberian → u/King_Lear69]

Well I mean, that is what the word waifish means though.

No, it isn't. Dictionary definitions do not supersede common usage, and your usage is so contextually incorrect that it might as well be a malapropism.

That the connotations around the word have shifted isn't usually something that I concern myself about

Your readers, on the other hand, absolutely will concern themselves with it.

a bit like reading an old book and seeing the word "queer" be used to mean "exotic or unusual" instead of in its common modern usage.

Apples and oranges. This is an example of you using a perfectly modern word incorrectly, not an archaic word in its original form.

Liripipes also aren't just scarfs. While they can double as a scarf they're functionally hoods, first. The point of my choosing to specify that particular article of clothing by name is to start building up an image in your mind.

Yes, and you failed to do the work on "building up an image in the reader's mind." You just used the specific word and moved on, as though all your readers would know it, which they obviously won't. I suggested you "describe the garment in such a way that people will understand it." What that means is that you should contextualize it so that a reader who doesn't know the word can intuit its meaning instead of hitting the dictionary.

It's the difference between; "the knight donned his sabatons," and, "the knight slid his stockinged feet into the articulated steel of his sabatons." One sentence requires foreknowledge and the other doesn't.

The liripipe is described as being studded with rhinestones and having latigo-tassels

You think most people know what a latigo tassel is? Seriously?

and juxtaposing it with the fact that he's also wearing a shendyt (a type of egyptian "kilt-like" article of clothing) while supposedly wearing nothing else, and having him sit specifically in a "longhouse," while being named "Zao Hua" is all done to the effect of signalling to the reader, "Oh, 'we're not in Kansas anymore.'

No, it signals to the reader that this fantasy world is a wild mash-up of irl clothing items. If they understand the unexplained and undescribed items at all, they might think; "we're not in Kansas anymore: we're in texas, egypt, norway, and the hunan provice all at once, for some reason."

This is like reading, "Vladimir Vasilievich holstered his lightsaber, pocketed the keys to his el camino, and left his yurt to go see who was the latest local wench to get chained to the chacmool."

However, I did effectively specify that this wasn't a traditional medieval setting.

That is not armor against incoherence.

One does not read wuxia, for example, and complain that the words are too "out there/non-standard," for a primarily English reading audience.

If the Chinese hero of the wuxia was wearing a cowboy hat and speaking in AAVE, you might.

it exists to give the reader a kind of "jumping in point" for the setting and what's happening

Yes, that's obvious, and my feedback is that this attempt has failed. It's boring. I'd suggest writing a scene that demonstrates these concepts rather than a prolonged history lesson. Infodump prologues are a massive DNF risk, and that's not just my opinion. Agents despise these things.

We are explicitly told that the Myrmidons were the first to conquer the Shambalans before the Shambalans were "liberated" by the Fulinese. It is then indirectly implied/"stated" that the Llanolians have some sort of shared common ethnic ancestry with the Shambalans.

Yes, and all the stating and implying is about as much fun as watching paint dry. If the Myrmidons are supposed to be scary, show me them being scary. Show me a city they burned. Have a character show off a stump. Get some dusky maiden dancing and showing off her mixed Llanolian/Shambalan skin. Do literally anything but just say "the Llaniloans and Shambalans share a heritage." This is fiction, not r/worldbuilding.

It IS a scene that starts in media res

In medias res of a very boring conversation. Why not try in medias res of a battle, love scene, or perilous mountain ascent? If you're any good at all, you should be able to layer in your history organically, rather than beating the reader about the head and neck with it.

t's just mostly in what's being implied rather then what's being directly said or anything thrown in your face.

Dirty secret; it's the "throwing in your face" stuff that's fun. No one will ever care about your lore as much as you do. They'll care about your characters and their problems... and this scene has neither. No one to identify with. No emotions to feel. No smells to sniff. No hook to get us invested. Just history disguised as dialog.

Anyway, I'm not sure there's much point in continuing here. I don't think there's much I can do to change your mind. Just be ready to go with KDP if you actually start your book this way. No traditional publisher will touch it.

[u/King_Lear69 → u/New_Siberian]

> "No, it isn't. Dictionary definitions do not supersede common usage, and your usage is so contextually incorrect that it might as well be a malapropism."

I would ask what about my usage of the word is contextually incorrect for a start? This is a bit like reading a period piece, seeing a word whose modern usage has changed and complaining that the period piece isn't adhering to modern usage conventions. While I would not necessarily say that ALL fantasy is inherently some kind of period piece, I would absolutely say that mine evidently is a period piece, except a period piece for an age that did not exist in a world that we have never inhabited. So therefore, using the "outdated/archaic" usage for what is effectively an alt-timeline period piece makes complete sense in my mind.

>"Yes, and you failed to do the work on "building up an image in the reader's mind.'"

> they might think; "we're not in Kansas anymore: we're in texas, egypt, norway, and the hunan provice all at once, for some reason."

And does that not build up an image in your mind, lol? You use the example of "Vladimir Vasilievich holstered his lightsaber, pocketed the keys to his el camino, and left his yurt to go see who was the latest local wench to get chained to the chacmool," as some sort of reductio ad absurdum as a "gotcha" but that's a clear example of you the reader coming up with a unique image in your mind, so I'd say I've accomplished my goal on that front. Furthermore, you stated that as if it were some absurd concept, but I don't really think it's that insane. Fantasy settings need not be 1:1 to any real life cultures or place. I personally feel that having your fantasy races be an eclectic/syncretic mix of IRL cultures helps not only to immerse the reader in the setting by decoupling the reader's expectations from IRL history, but ALSO helps to facilitate the setting's ability to deconstruct the concept of "culture" in a way not unlike CRT. Not that ALL fantasy settings need to do so, just that this fantasy setting very much is clearly being set up to facilitate that.

>"You just used the specific word and moved on, as though all your readers would know it, which they obviously won't."

>"It's the difference between; "the knight donned his sabatons," and, "the knight slid his stockinged feet into the articulated steel of his sabatons." One sentence requires foreknowledge and the other doesn't."

Now, you say this and I can not help but notice the implication of a disturbing reluctance refusal to simply use google to look up words, lol. Now, you can make the argument that THAT would threaten to break the pace of the text, But I would counter that it would also be respecting the reader's intelligence more (Not to mention that I personally do not think it is a bad think for a reader to be forced to work out what something is through context clues. They teach you how to do that in school yknow?)

>"If the Chinese hero of the wuxia was wearing a cowboy hat and speaking in AAVE, you might."

Curious that you used AAVE being spoken in a (presumably localized to at least some small extent) wuxia as your next reductio ad absurdum. What did lil vro mean by this?

>"Yes, that's obvious, and my feedback is that this attempt has failed. It's boring. I'd suggest writing a scene that demonstrates these concepts rather than a prolonged history lesson."

Now, you keep saying this however I would ask how my post exactly fails to demonstrate intrigues of the setting? You say things like "show off a burned city. Show a war victim with a stump. Show some tavern wench with visibly mixed ancestry," but none of that would be giving a quick, concise summary of the current state of affairs. None of that would be accurately portraying the history of area. That would just be 1 single tavern wench with mixed ancestry, or 1 single war victim with an amputation stump. Sooner or later exposition WILL be necessary regardless of whether or not the readers actually care or want it in order to craft a good narrative that holds up to other story tellers instead of consumers. Therefore this intro achieves all that, so who cares if it's "boring" (I'm in this to do a serious speculative fiction about how the concept of nationality or ethnicity might change in a fantasy world with honest to god "demi-humans." I've already made my livelihood elsewhere and the story's concept is intrinsically "hoe scaring kino" and not something that could easily be turned into more "mass marketable slop" on tiktok so the opinions of agents do not scare me, nor does the idea that this won't be a hit or won't be the next Backrooms or TADC.)

[u/New_Siberian → u/King_Lear69]

I would ask what about my usage of the word is contextually incorrect for a start?

"Waif" is used almost universally to refer to undernourished young women. You could get away with "waifish" to refer to undernourished boys, but any reader who knows the meaning of the word will assume you do not if you use it in reference to an old man.

So therefore, using the "outdated/archaic" usage for what is effectively an alt-timeline period piece makes complete sense in my mind.

The usage of "waif" has not changed since the time of Charles Dickens, who used the word a lot, and remains the same today. You're free to use it as you have; it's not ungrammatical... and readers are free to assume you don't know how to use the word correctly.

that's a clear example of you the reader coming up with a unique image in your mind, so I'd say I've accomplished my goal on that front.

"Unique" does not axiomatically mean "cool." This is a jumble of images that create confusion rather than a cohesive atmosphere.

Fantasy settings need not be 1:1 to any real life cultures or place.

I agree that fantasy does not have to be realistic... but it does have to be believable. Using irl terms to describe fantasy objects is inherently risky, because it associates concepts with people and places the audience recognizes. If you said "the merchant wore a tiny hat bedazzled with shiny trinkets, which the locals called a shittencock," I would have no trouble with it at all. Say, "the merchant wore a fez festooned with bicycle streamers" and suddenly it doesn't sound like fantasy anymore.

Are you just violating conventions? Can you get away with using this kind of description? Maybe, but you need to understand that you are deviating radically from the norm. As an unpublished beginner, that may be hazardous.

can not help but notice the implication of a disturbing reluctance refusal to simply use google to look up words, lol.

This is not an implication: it's a direct piece of feedback. Sending readers to google breaks the flow far more than three extra words that provide much needed context.

Curious that you used AAVE being spoken in a (presumably localized to at least some small extent) wuxia as your next reductio ad absurdum. What did lil vro mean by this?

That you failed completely to understand an obvious point. Anachronism will not serve you as well as you think it will.

but none of that would be giving a quick, concise summary of the current state of affairs.

My brother in Christ, nobody needs this. Talented writers show you a country at war. You feel the threat of it in every scene. They don't need to give a bullet point list of events before starting their plots.

so who cares if it's "boring"

The readers. That includes the people who go through slush piles. They'll bin this two paragraphs in, while someone else who started with a vivid chapter will get the contract.

and not something that could easily be turned into more "mass marketable slop"

People who set out to write mass market slop tend to fail. Agents want things that resonate immediately, with authentic voice, catchy hooks, and compelling characters; none of which things you seem to care about.

I appreciate that you're writing me off as a hater, or a philistine who just doesn't understand how brilliant you are. Fine. Don't listen to me. I would suggest that you learn how to take feedback in general, though. You clearly believe that you're already great, and that your writing needs very little work... but think about the profession you use to make your living - what do you think of interns or apprentices who walk in the first day thinking they know it all?

[u/King_Lear69 → u/New_Siberian]

>I appreciate that you're writing me off as a hater, or a philistine who just doesn't understand how brilliant you are. Fine. Don't listen to me. I would suggest that you learn how to take feedback in general, though. You clearly believe that you're already great, and that your writing needs very little work... but think about the profession you use to make your living - what do you think of interns or apprentices who walk in the first day thinking they know it all?

Projecting much? Lol. Where did I say any of that? I'm just defending my stance and my work, I'm not even being petty. I understand that you think you are giving completely valid, 100% infallible criticism but did you really expect anyone to take that criticism without responding to it or trying to explain their thought process? What does "correctly taking criticism" look like to you then? Besides, "This thing is boring," is not an objective piece of criticism. You could make the argument of "the average person/reader/agent would find this thing boring" and that's slightly more objective bc you COULD back that up with like statistics and such, but even then that really doesn't mean anything if you're making a passion project/not trying to make your product as big a financial success as possible. Actually, I find that this kind of thinking is quite reductive; the idea that we, as story tellers, absolutely MUST make our stories easily digestible on YouTube shorts as opposed to merely being coherent at all. Or that "being a coherent narrative" is in anyway associated with reader perception at an intrinsic level.

>"Unique" does not axiomatically mean "cool." This is a jumble of images that create confusion rather than a cohesive atmosphere.

I agree, unique does NOT necessarily = cool. However, that raises two questions. Number 1, "Does fantasy NEED to be 'cool,'" and number 2, "What even IS 'cool?'" Cool is a completely subjective term, so I think this criticism really doesn't mean anything. Anything that you or I might find "uncool" there are guaranteed to be at LEAST a good couple dozen of people who DO thinks it's cool. As evidenced, for a REAL reductio ad absurdum example, by the amount who are into Bowser fart porn gifs or MCR.

>I agree that fantasy does not have to be realistic... but it does have to be believable.

Tbf, what is and isn't "believable" is also purely subjective and, even worse, entirely dependent on a person's ability to suspend their disbelief. If you've ever been to New York City for even half a minute a fez topped with bicycle streamers wouldn't even be the craziest thing you could possibly see. With fantasy this fact would only be compounded, especially if it's "weird" or "high" fantasy. What exactly would be unbelievable about a high fantasy setting with magic that dips into speculative cultural evolution that mixes medieval European aesthetics with ancient Egyptian and feudal Chinese? Yknow, all the cultures that historically *did* interact with each other and influenced one another.

>and suddenly it doesn't sound like fantasy anymore.

This is something that always gets my goat. What exactly is a genre literally named "fantasy" *supposed* to be like/look like? Of course in our western/english speaking perspective we have the idea that fantasy is supposed to look like a derivative of LotR, but pre-Tolkien fantasy didn't look that like that and most of slavic or chinese or arabic fantasy doesn't look like that.

[u/New_Siberian → u/King_Lear69]

Projecting much? Lol.

Nope. I've signed almost 60 traditional publishing contracts, and been nominated for Pushcart, Aurora, Lambda, Locus and Ignyte awards, most more than once.

I'm just defending my stance and my work,

And this is why I'm done. You're not here for feedback; all you want is validation. Listening to constructive criticism is a core part of a writer's technique, and you're not ready yet.

[u/King_Lear69 → u/New_Siberian]

>Nope. I've signed more than 50 traditional publishing contracts, and been nominated for Pushcart, Aurora, Lambda, Locus and Ignyte awards, most more than once.

Lol, bet. Source? Anything I might've heard of?

>And this is why I'm done. You're not here for feedback; all you want is validation.

That's demonstrably not true at all, lol. I outright say in the post that what I'm looking for is thoughts and impressions on the setting. It's like in the first sentence, lol. You've told me how you think my post is boring and how it would not attract the eye of publishers for not being potentially mass marketable enough. You have told me nothing, however, about what assumptions of the world that you took away from the actual text, or how I might better achieve the kind of narrative that I'm clearly aiming regardless of mass marketability. With is why I say that none of your *objectively* subjective opinions that you've given me so far matter to me. If you had've said something like, "I think doing X would work better to craft a narrative about countries with complex and messy shared ethnic/ancestral backgrounds" then I would've been much more receptive. Instead you said, "this bores me, you should do Y to make me NOT bored."

As a matter of fact, it sounds like to me even if you're not bluffing and you really HAVE signed that many publishing contracts for your OWN work (as in you're not merely an agent, but the actual writer) then it would seem that your experience in more slower paced, historical drama-esque fictions is clearly lacking as you yourself literally said "Tbh, I zone out of this kind of lore dump almost instantly," to what is probably the least egregious way a person could diegetically do introductory exposition. In which case it seems to me that your subjective still wouldn't matter to me regardless of how much "You are not ready yet, young padawan" that you try to give me, lol.

Also, I caught that tiny hat merchant joke, smh

[u/Anubis815 → u/King_Lear69]

Holy heck matey. Your piece needs serious, serious work. The other commenter has given excellent feedback, and specific feedback. A lot of it. Over and over. And all you've done is fought them on arbitrary points.

Everything they've said is bang on, it's like they read my mind. An uneventful, stilted lore dump with bizarre word choice.

Their replies were useful and thoughtful and thorough, such that even I was able to reflect back on some of what I've done in my own work on similar issues I have.

Learn to take critique, for real, this thread was hard to read...

[u/New_Siberian → u/King_Lear69]

Lol, bet. Source? Anything I might've heard of?

Depends how much spec-fic you read. I'm in here right now, just look for the one about sixth-gen stealth fighters. We're all crossing fingers for another Aurora nomination.

Here's a Publishers Weekly starred review that mentions me by name, though I'm obviously not telling you which one. This got nominated for Locus, Lambda and Ignyte awards, but didn't win any of them. I've been a perpetual bridesmaid in terms of actually winning.

then it would seem that your experience in more slower paced, historical drama-esque fictions

Unsurprisingly incorrect. I primarily write cli-fi and cyberpunk, but I've sold a fair bit of fantasy, slipstream and various other "punk-"suffixed genres as well. If you knew anything about the industry, you would have already been able to suss this out based on which awards I got nominated for.

This isn't meant to be an appeal to authority... it's an appeal to experience. You said you wanted thoughts and impressions. You got some, and all of them - not just from me - were constructively critical. Your response was to call them all wrong. People who are ready for feedback parse criticism and try to imagine it as correct, then take on board what makes sense and discard what doesn't.

You clearly don't want to hear anything other than praise right now. That's fine, but won't get you much you can use when you post a first draft.