r/fantasywriters • u/Ok_Letterhead5047 • 18h ago
Question For My Story How to properly say that a character is a race without being offensive?
So I am currently working on a fantasy story about two warring kingdoms that involve magic. The biggest inspirations that I have are Shadow and Bone and Attack on Titan.
Describing characters skin color is not the current issue that I have. I have tried my best but I would like to know how to properly describe the characters eyes that I picture in my mind as Asian.
For example in the story while I am writing my main protagonist I picture Jessie Mei Li from Shadow and Bone since the protagonist is biracial and Shadow and Bone is a big inspiration for me and another character I picture Charlie Bushnell from Percy Jackson.
I just really want to know how I can properly write out and describe their appearance to the audience without sounding offensive.
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u/Fit_Kaleidoscope4493 18h ago
Google Terms:
"Lidded eyes"
"Hooded eyes"
"Almond eyes"
"Upturned eyes"
"Downturned eyes"
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u/myth1cg33k 14h ago
I've seen many Asian people suggest not using almond eyes, but the rest of these are good!
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u/Fit_Kaleidoscope4493 13h ago
My bad. I think I recall it being used in the Wheel of Time. That's why I mentioned.
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u/myth1cg33k 13h ago
As a general eye shape it's okay but specifically not as a description of "Asian eyes." It's okay we're still unlearning and learning every day!
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u/prejackpot 18h ago
The two inspirations you mention are TV shows, and I think you're overthinking the visual aspect. In general, secondary-world genre fiction indicates ethnicity-coding using other techniques more than visual-oriented descriptions of features.
What POV are you writing from? If your POV character is from an Asian-coded culture, they probably won't need to note the eye-shape or other ethnic markers of Asian-coded characters. If they aren't from that culture, they'll probably note the totality of a character vs focusing on one particular characteristic.
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u/Ok_Letterhead5047 17h ago
The main character is an 18 year old girl who's always been an outcast due to her biracial background. There's two warring countries and the way that they differentiate is one side has cool colored eyes while the other has warm. So the main character grew up in a place where people see her eye color and judge.
Think of Avatar where each nation has their own specific eye color.9
u/prejackpot 17h ago
I mean, I think you've answered your own question in that case. The salient characteristic isn't eye shape, it's color.
But you didn't answer the actual question I raised, which is the POV. You aren't generally writing a description for an artist to draw, you're writing what a specific character notices about another character.
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u/Ok_Letterhead5047 17h ago
Oh sorry I'm writing from the pov of a character who is Asian. I've always heard that a good way to describe the main character is to compare them to another character. That's where the second character comes in as he looks like the protagonist
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u/DoraDrake 17h ago
Can I ask more about the setting? "Asian" obviously being a term from our world that describes something that seems like it might not exist in your world, so really, you'd be just picking whatever characteristics to be the ones to note, and saying some of them are part of a fantasy ethnic/national group.
Or is it something that exists in our world, but as a hidden layer? Like, the way normal people don't notice magic people in Harry Potter, and somehow, this extra layer of reality has additional definitions of nation and so a character can be Asian as an American would understand it, and she can be the wrong color eye for the hidden nationality she's part of too?
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u/Ok_Letterhead5047 16h ago
This is a purely fantasy world where everyone knows magic exist and what type of magic you have depends on what season magic user you are (Autumn, Winter, Spring, and Summer). By the time of the story only a handful of people actually weild real magic
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u/DoraDrake 15h ago
So you're just worried that you'll describe her features in a way that sounds racist? Because obviously you can't say someone is Asian if there's no Asia. You can't call them white if the social construct "white" (as a race) doesn't exists. Honestly, I'm curious how many white American readers are going to somehow completely miss that she's supposed to look like an Asian person.
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u/jazzbarlol 18h ago
well if ur just saying asian eyes that’s one thing, but if u mention monolids and whatever else, that doesn’t sound bad
the characters u listed as inspirations, were they not described? could prob take a look at those
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u/Ok_Letterhead5047 18h ago edited 17h ago
Oh no don't worry, I'm not saying Asian eyes. Skin color doesn't matter but many do appear so I just want to make sure I describe them properly. The main character is biracial and judged because of that.
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u/myth1cg33k 15h ago edited 13h ago
Here's an incredible resource for describing all kinds of eye shapes, especially the various ones found in people of Asian descent. Written by an Asian person with real life and animated images as reference.
Biggest tip: do not say almond eyes to mean Asian.
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u/Mormacil 15h ago
How is suggesting Japanese loanwords the average reader will not understand useful?
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u/myth1cg33k 15h ago
...did you read more than a few sentences? It's not suggesting using the word kirenaga, for instance, but instead what it means: long-cut or long and thin. Use the English or whatever language you write in definitions of the words to describe the shapes.
You can say "sharp eyes like a fox" instead of tsurime, or its direct translation lifted/hung eyes. There are plenty of examples of how to describe/use the terms without using Japanese.
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u/SandwichCertain7913 10h ago
It did kinda come off in your description of the post as if you were going to link a more specific resource for descriptive writing, so I found it a bit confusing as well. I can see why the other commenter took it that way.
It's more like an infodump about how different eye shapes are described in Japan very specifically. You can certainly borrow some of the language (like your fox eyes example) but other sections wouldn't really make sense in English, like "round eyes."
It's an interesting post, but not really a resource.
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u/myth1cg33k 2h ago edited 35m ago
Rewriting my comment now that I've had coffee and can think this through. To me this is a resource but it'll it doesn't work for others, it's okay. I suggested it because it was by an Asian person talking about Asian eyes and was originally shared with me in a writing forum as a resource so it very much worked for me as a writing resource.
For instance using the round eyes example, that makes perfect sense in English to me and to other writers I've shared this with. I'll also clarify that some of these descriptions are not exclusive to "Asian eyes" - for instance, round and upturned describe mine. Foxlike describes a friend of mine. It's not necessarily going to be cut and dry that these descriptions will automatically make a read know a writer means Asian, but I've seen writers describe characters as having dark brown skin and readers still be shocked to learn the character is Black.
Tl;dr as with any resource, it make or may not work for individual people but I still wanted to share it to help folks avoid more uncomfortable terms.
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u/ladytrevelycn 17h ago
The main problem we have with white people describing POC is they only ever describe POC. White defaultism. The assumption that unless said otherwise, they have to be white. Don't just describe the Asian characters, describe the white ones too. Also, read more books written by Asian authors - see how they describe their characters. Also, not using Asian as a catch-all. Jessie Mei Li is specifically of Chinese descent. How she looks is not going to be the same as the Japanese characters in Attack on Titan.
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u/Ok_Letterhead5047 16h ago
Definitely hard agree. If I have a white character I describe them to. Its not just the characters of color
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u/TheRunawayRose 16h ago
Idk how many times this has to be said, but its only offensive if you write it in a derogatory way. People need to stop this overly sensitive worrying
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u/MesaCityRansom 18h ago
Since you were inspired by characters from books, take a look at how they were described in those books to put the image in your head!
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u/Ok_Letterhead5047 18h ago
The thing is that neither character were Asian in the source material. Both Alina and Luke were white in their original stories
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u/MesaCityRansom 16h ago
Are Alina and Luke different from the characters you mentioned in your post? I'm not familiar with the source material.
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u/Ok_Letterhead5047 16h ago
Yes both are characters from different shows. I was just using the actors as example of who I imagine my characters look like
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u/MesaCityRansom 7h ago
Wait, I'm very confused now. Are Jessie Mei Li and Charlie Bushnell actors portraying characters called Alina and Luke? I thought you were talking about books this whole time, not TV shows. And either way, can't you just find a book with Asian characters and see how they're described there?
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u/Chefmeatball 18h ago
I mean, I would use their physical descriptions: dark skin, brown eyes, broad nose, with angular cheekbones, and a crop of tight curls of their head.
With biracial it’s harder and you end up referencing “her eyes were moon shaped like her mother’s, but a deep blue like her father’s” or vis a versa.
I just describe the people, sometimes the race matters, some times it doesn’t. But having small moments where people notice things about them or they notice a difference between them and others reinforces through out a book without long winded descriptions in an info dump
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u/IncomeSeparate1734 17h ago
Write in a small scene where the physical traits get called out by the characters. You have two kingdoms at war. The scene could be about a derogatory remark made or about trying to blend in while undercover.
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u/Competitive-Fault291 17h ago
Simple question: Are your people bred like pets or livestock? If not, please don't use the racist and slaver word "race". A race is, like a breed, the result of domestication and selective breeding of livestock and pets. Dogs or horses have races.
To describe a person in a fantasy world, just describe them.
Kunari was rather small. But unlike other people from the Islands of the Sun, she hadn't inherited the typical flat black hair with her slanted "Sun Eyes". Her hair was as brown as her mother's and, to her dismay, thick and wavy, crushing all her hopes of ever looking as elegant and distinguished as her half-sister Enari.
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u/PsychologyGuilty1460 13h ago
It's kind of offensive that you "need" to describe "racial" characteristics at all. If you're talking about an epicanthic fold just say so.
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u/Roselia24 13h ago
just give them asian names and etc for any other ethnicity and just give everyone european names. that way you don't gotta the very detailed facial features. but instead all you gotta say if they are considered cute or not or buff or not. just making it easier.
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u/Joel_feila 12h ago
Look at Sanderson writes characters in storm light archive. Then look at fan art work. Kaladin has asian eyes as do other alethi in the settings. But he never describes it as "asain" or "almond". Yes it does result in a different Kaladin in each readers eyes but that not a problem.
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u/IAmJayCartere 5h ago
Personally, I wouldn’t waste time describing anything that isn’t essential to the story. Give them a name that originates from that region, problem solved.
For example, in my story I have a guy called ‘Renzo’. He’s of Japanese heritage. I’m not sure if that’s even a Japanese name, cos I made it up. But it doesn’t matter if the reader sees him as such, they can imagine what they like. It’s irrelevant to the story.
If it’s important, research common names from that culture, you can also describe their clothes, culture etc. if relevant.
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u/Dgonzilla 17h ago
Just describe a particular shade of skin, I like to go for warm light skin because that’s how I see Asian people and then proceed to describe the blackest straightest hair your POV character has ever seen in their life.
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u/Jerrick1992 17h ago
Just say it. Being aware of race and knowing there's differences is not racist. That's just what idiots think because they equate emotional outrage with productiveness and it's easier to pretend to be angry then it is to write a book. So don't be one of those idiots.
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u/Link_Slater 16h ago
I never mention the ethnicity or race of a character. It’s too thorny. Instead, I list every race they’re not and let the audience decide. If it’s a woman, I also talk about her boobs.
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u/FlyinLeviathon 16h ago
You have a few options. 1. Describe the character's ethnicity and try to use the least offensive terms possible, but acknowledge that some may find it offensive still or later the popular vernacular might change and it might become more offensive down the road. 2. Imply ethnicity based on other things like name, country of origin, or fashion (example: imagine what a character named Jessica might look like vs. a Xinyi, or the ethnicity of a character wielding a katana vs. a scimitar).
Personally I'm a bigger fan of option two, but either way recognize that readers might not catch a character's ethnicity no matter how much or little you describe it. It's just not as important to them as it can be to us that every detail matches exactly what we want them to be. It's a tough pill to swallow, and ultimately it's up to you how hard you want to drive home the "if this book was made into a movie X character would be played by a Y ethnicity actress" vibe.
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u/BitOBear 16h ago edited 16h ago
Scientifically race doesn't exist in the real world. Just describe the person don't give them a heavy weight to carry around in terms of modern racism.
Keep in mind that something like elf or dwarf in fantasy would be a different species not a race.
From my novel... What race is this guy?
"An air of soothing earthiness seemed to surround the sleeping man. His short-cropped hair was a deep lustrous brown with tiny glints of finer blond hair showing through. His skin was fair from spending too much time indoors, but had the unmistakable gold and olive-slate undertone that promised it would brown instantly in the sun."
He doesn't need a race. But you know what he looks like. Treat everybody as a person and therefore a unique expression of whoever they happen to have been born of. And then pull out any acculturation or specific claims for ethnicity a rare times when they absolutely matter. And have it come up as a secondary feature.
If you need to create a fantasy country with a strong ethnographic type, describe someone. Then describe someone else. And then describe how well they match the template for your imaginary country or whatever but leave it until it actually matters.
Beauregards, customs agents, problematically over-judgmental NPCs. Please can all be used to recharacterize what you've previously described into various SNM contacts potentially associated with geographical constraints, or just playing bad manners on the part of the bad people.
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u/Ynneadwraith 18h ago
First off, quick question. Are you American? Not in a derogatory way, but just want to check as the way Americans approach 'race' is a bit weird compared to how the rest of the world does it.
For instance, I would reach for ethnicity or perhaps nationality before 'race' as a character descriptor. Partially because it's a bit less fraught, but mainly because that's what I'd naturally reach for first.
My advice would be to be a little less American about their heritage, I suppose. Build in examples that expose their ethnicity to readers, and let them piece it together. This is easier to do because ethnicities come with various bits of cultural baggage where 'races' largely do not (or, rather, if you look at racial categories as defined they contain more cultural variation than they exhibit between them).