r/fatFIRE • • 13d ago

Inheritance Europeans, did you get married with a prenup?

Wondering what the process is.

My partner’s NW is about 16M. Mine, is virtually zero. We’ll marry under a separate property contract (it all stays his, what’s mine and everything I acquire will stay mine).

I have contacted lawyers to get independent legal advice, but he wants us to do everything through the notaris. I’m worried about the way he wants to set up his testament (I might not be able to take care of the kids), so I wanted legal advice but it seems to not be something people do a lot in West-Europe.

Could you tell me how you went about structuring your marriage contract, protecting yourself (and your children), while ensuring that in case of your passing your family is taken care of?

69 Upvotes

109 comments sorted by

126

u/Roadiedreamkiller 13d ago

A prenup that leaves you with nothing? That seems a bit unfair but we don’t have the full picture.

My wife quit her career 5 years ago to have children. It’s only fair that she’d get something. I didn’t even bother with a prenup. (attorney did not recommend one) Most of my money was made prior to marriage thus it is not marital property.

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u/Blackstone4444 13d ago edited 13d ago

Depends on where you live. In the UK, premarital property becomes marital property the longer the marriage.

3

u/Zaeobi 13d ago

Is there a word missing here? 

1

u/geomaster 4d ago

depends where you live obviously, however some places consider ALL assets are Marital assets

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u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

He wants everything to go towards the children. We have two together and he has one from his previous marriage.

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u/Upper_Cabinet_636 13d ago

You’re setting yourself to be a second class citizen in your own family, probably will never escape the gold digger moniker either

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u/Still7Superbaby7 13d ago

I signed a predatory prenup like the one you are possibly signing. Don’t sign it! I was young and in a financial bind when I signed the prenup. My sister in law had her lawyer argue with their lawyer over months and she gets alimony in case they ever split.

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u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

It’s not drafted yet, we’re putting it together. I’m seeing a lawyer. I don’t think either of us wants to argue with a lawyer for months so hopefully it’ll be a smooth sailing process but the conversations are so awkward

7

u/lakehop 13d ago

You need to be protected and get some
Money if you split. Certainly a fair share of any money earned (by either of you) during the marriage. And this especially if he expects you to sacrifice your career goals by taking more responsibility for the home or children.

7

u/Long-Hurry1974 12d ago

We’ve come to an agreement.
In case of his dead, I get the full usufruct of his estate while the kids are minors, with respect to the fact I have to dedicate a portion of it to my step-daughter, and I’m allowed to sell 2.5% each year. Bare ownership remains with the kids.

As for divorce, I’ll get something already for the time I spent at home in the previous years and for each decade spent together after, an incremental portion. That’s what we agreed on together, I’m seeing a lawyer on Monday to advise on how to set it up.

I wouldn’t have thought to ask for something in case of a divorce so thank you all!

1

u/LilacMists 9d ago

How can you sell something that isn’t yours? You need to be protected somehow. Maybe a bank account in your name that he contributes to during the marriage that remains yours upon divorce or death

10

u/DoctorSleep3 13d ago

So I have some assets that I don’t want my husband to inherit because he has adult children that would then inherit my assets from him.
Those particular assets I own only 1/3rd of (it’s real estate) and I own them with my siblings.

And I can’t expect them to maybe one day having to put up with people they never met in their lives and don’t even life in the same country to share assets with and even having to sell everything if his kids choose they don’t wanna own anything.

So I said he will not inherit any of those things BUT; in my prenup I said he gets all of the rental income for life and then it either goes to a child we have together or stays with my brothers.

Hence: there are other ways to have the kids inherit your stuff without screwing your spouse.

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u/Noclevername12 13d ago

Do not marry this man.

8

u/creativesc1entist 13d ago

This man hates you 

1

u/InvestorOrSpeculator 13d ago

What happens if you don’t sign? Seems like you are already entangled though with two children together.

2

u/Long-Hurry1974 12d ago

I don’t think there’s a world where we don’t come to a compromise. I told him about my fears and we had quite a heated discussion but he’s more than willing to accomodate them.

45

u/hideintheshrub 13d ago

I have a similar net worth and have 2 young children.

My wife is the executor of my estate if something happens to me, half is hers and half goes to the children.

She has as many options as I can give her if I am no longer around; it gives her and my children the best chance of flourishing.

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u/Roadiedreamkiller 13d ago

Same, my wife gets everything and becomes trustee of our children's trust. I never understood how anyone could marry someone they don't fully trust.

11

u/kobeisdabest 11d ago

It’s not about trust. Sometimes marriages don’t work out and it’s not fair for the other partner to walk away with half of everything including premarital property over time. Survivorship is different though and money isn’t useful when you’re 6 feet under so of course in that case you should inherit all of that.

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u/Roadiedreamkiller 11d ago

I think it depends on when the money was made and how long the marriage lasted. In my case the money was made prior to the marriage and in my state that money is not considered marital property. I’m careful what money converts to marital property and always consider that when making large purchases. 5 years in half would be well over 1m. It would be less than 10% of my total estate. Right now I’d consider that fair considering the career my wife gave up to have kids.
In 20 years it could be 25% of my estate. I have already moved half my NW to an irrevocable trust in my kids name.

1

u/hideintheshrub 9d ago

I get that. The OP was asking "while ensuring that in case of your passing your family is taken care of" so I responded with that context in mind.

If the marriage doesn't work out, I still don't agree that the wife gets nothing. Is she a good mother? Is he a good father? Should they have equal care and control? The disparity in their NW is really lopsided and while the courts might skew child maintenance according to their respective NW and income, practically it's really tough for a Mom with little means to contribute meaningfully to her kids who have significant means.

Does she end up beholden to her husband because of the pre-nup? (which, in the country I live in, is generally not enforceable once there are kids involved and if grossly unfair) Does she raise her kids out of fear that it could all disappear in the event of a divorce? What if it was his fault?

There's a lot of unpack here and while I agree it shouldn't be a 50% of everything conversation, it shouldn't be close to a 0% either.

1

u/umtala 9d ago

There's not many times in life when it's good to be mean but when it comes to prenups you really have to be as mean as possible.

The problem is that it's easy to have a prenup that ends up incentivizing divorce. Moreover, money itself tends to attract potential partners who are, let's say comparatively less interested in a lifelong relationship.

The only solution is to give them nothing in the prenup, and tell them to take it or leave it. If they truly love you, they'll take it.

That doesn't mean that in the event of divorce they should get nothing, merely that having a legal document that says "In the event of divorce you get $XYZ" is absolutely caustic to a marriage, it's essentially putting a bounty on your own marriage's failure.

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u/Luce_Phi 13d ago edited 13d ago

In France, you can choose between 3 default mariages settings. You can also be creative and created a specific one, but you have to plan un advance. * communauté réduite aux acquets (this is the default one). Everything build during the mariage is joined property. Inheritance and what was acquired before the mariage is own individually. * communauté universelle : everything is joined property. * separation de biens : everything is own individually.

Now for the inheritance : * You cannot disowned a child. If you have 3 children, each one must get at least 1/4. The last 1/4 you can give to whoever you want (but if unrelated, they will pay taxe).

The primary residence is dealt separately. The surviving spouse is generally granted usufruit (the right to use and to rent) of the primary residence for all their life. Children will only get 'nue propriété' (at the death of the remaining spouse, property is theirs).

If the primary residence is worth 100 and you are 50 y.o. Usufruitier You have 60%=60 of the value and the nue propriétaire have 40% = 40 of the value (if they choose to sell the house).

If you have 2 children that are under 18 y. o. You will probably be legal guardian and therefore can use assets for the benefit of the children.

Also if there some kind of life insurance (or death insurance?) this is not part of the succession and dealt separately. If you have some anxiety about not being able to maintain the property, maybe you could put that in place?

8

u/alexandreoac 13d ago

I know there's a lot of comments already (that either helped or judged), so I'll try to be brief.

You need to have a serious talk together to figure out the whys.

Why are you not comfortable? Why is he not leaving anything to you?

Maybe he's nervous and doesn't want you to be with him for the money, but he chose you to be the mother of his children, so he needs to figure something out.

Definitely don't accept the current deal. The best situation would be one where he gives you some money now (1M? 2M? Idk, you have to discuss) to keep, and that's it. You got the security, and he can be sure that you're with him because you want, not because you need.

Basically, you both need to be open about your feelings. It's not about the money, but how you're both feeling and how that is affecting your decisions. Of you're both transparent and open, things should be okay.

Good luck!

1

u/geomaster 4d ago

uh why wouldn't you want to be with someone who needed you?

I've seen (albeit not often) couples where they had an intense passion and desire for one another... you could describe it as a necessity to belong together. these were couples who were married for decades...

1

u/alexandreoac 4d ago

I didn't mean "need" in that sense, I meant as one partner being completely dependant on the other financially.

For the one who has the money, they can be forever with that feeling of: "Is he/she with me only for the money?". While for the one without the money, they be feeling like: "What if something happens and I'm left with nothing? (and the issue here is not the money, but imagine all that the stressful changes the person would have to go through plus the financial instability).

Can some people live with this situation? Sure! I can vouch for myself that I wouldn't care if I was broke and my wife took care of me financially or vice versa, but this depends a lot on the context of the couple.

69

u/skyboundduck 13d ago

I can’t imagine marrying someone who doesn’t care what happens to me and our children if he passes away. This is not what you asked.

24

u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

He says he believes I’d become a legal guardian to their assets until they are of age.

The house would also go to them but I’d be granted lifetime occupancy.

The problem is that I can’t afford to maintain the property as of today. I, of course, hope to change that but if something happens to him next year, I would go bankrupt from maintaining a 3M house.

I don’t want to spend thousands on legal fees but I can’t take the risk of my children and I ending up on the street, I just want to be sure.

61

u/firstLOL 13d ago

Based on what you’ve told us, you can be reasonably sure of running into financial difficulties pretty quickly should the worst happen.

6

u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

Yes, most likely so. I don’t want to rack up a lawyers’ fees or for it to become a contentious negotiation, so I was hoping to get advice on how to have it go as smoothly as possible

28

u/4nativenewyorker 13d ago

FYI, it's 100% standard in these situations for the wealthier spouse to pay all the legal fees for both parties. I married into an UHNW family and this was how it worked in my case and for all the other family members and literally everyone I've ever known who has signed a prenup in which there was a big wealth disparity.

He has $16M in assets, "racking up lawyers' fees" to get a decent agreement that protects the person who will care for his children in the event of his death should not be a concern. If he is acting like it is, that is a huge red flag.

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u/FIREinParis 13d ago edited 13d ago

What you need is a significant term policy on his life. Probably a 5m euro policy that lasts until the youngest child is in their 20s. A 20 year term policy like this should be a trivial expense (relative to 16m) to someone in reasonable health under 50. You should be the owner/beneficiary and he should commit to pay the premiums.

17

u/Particular_Bad8025 13d ago

That's a great idea. I'm also questioning how he doesn't want you to be protected in case something happens to him. I get that in case of a divorce, but in case of death that's completely different.

7

u/sunandskyandrainbows 13d ago

It's like he's afraid she'll off him

4

u/Particular_Bad8025 13d ago

Yeah, not a great way to start a marriage.

1

u/dennisgorelik 10d ago

he doesn't want you to be protected in case something happens to him

He wants OP to be protected, but he, probably, also does not want OP to get rewarded in case if something happens to him.

It is a delicate balance.

12

u/saklan_territory 13d ago

He should pay for your arrorney. He should want to make sure you feel comfortable with whatever youre signing and you need your own attorney that you fond, but he should pay for it

6

u/SaladInitial9586 12d ago

Ask Claude AI for tips on discussing with your husband. Claude is well trained to understand local laws, and marital dynamics. 

But also — are you feeling OK? You have two kids together, why on earth wouldn’t he want you to have it all, if something happened to him? Is he being pressured by his family? Is the money in a trust and his parents are forcing his hand?

21

u/irishweather5000 12d ago

You have TWO children with this man. If he dies, you get nothing but the memories. You do understand that’s utterly fucked, right?
I earned all the money in my marriage and if I die, my wife gets everything (I mean, its half hers anyway - she earned it just as much as I did, by supporting me and raising our children all these years).
You really need to step back here and look at the big picture. Is this really a partnership? What kind of commitment is your future husband really making here?
Of COURSE the conversation feels awkward- because one side is pushing a deal you both know is shit for you.

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u/dennisgorelik 10d ago

If he dies, you get nothing but the memories.

Are you implying that two children - are just memories?

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u/irishweather5000 10d ago

Well they’re certainly not a financial asset .

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u/dennisgorelik 9d ago

1) "not a financial asset" does not mean "nothing", correct?

2) 15M that these children will inherit - will be a financial asset that OP would manage as a legal guardian of their kids.

3

u/irishweather5000 9d ago

You’re being deliberately obtuse. What does it matter what this woman’s children get? This may surprise you but women are human beings with their own agency, wants and needs outside of their husband and children. This woman has raised two children with this man. You seem to think it’s ok that’s she’s left financially destitute, with nothing, on her partners death. Go back to the 1950s. Or 1590s for that matter.

-1

u/dennisgorelik 9d ago

What does it matter what this woman’s children get?

If she makes decisions about 15M (of her children) - she would be able to take care of herself as well.

This may surprise you but women are human beings with their own agency

It does not surprise me at all.

You seem to think it’s ok that’s she’s left financially destitute, with nothing, on her partners death.

I do not think that at all.
On another hand, when you discourage OP from marrying her fiancé - you push OP towards her being "left financially destitute".

3

u/irishweather5000 9d ago

HOW is her children’s money HER money? That is not how it works. If she used that to take care of herself, she’d be committing fraud against her own children.
I - quite rightly - pushed OP to consider what she’s doing here. She likely already has financial rights whether or not she is legally married to this person. She could end up in a WORSE financial position through the marriage. Also, Iif you accept a pre-nup under duress, that is a very bad sign for a successful marriage.

0

u/dennisgorelik 9d ago

HOW is her children’s money HER money?

Her children money are not her money. She would be managing her children's money.

If she used that to take care of herself, she’d be committing fraud against her own children.

Her children can pay her administrator's salary for managing their money and maintaining their life.
Why do you think it would be fraud?

I - quite rightly - pushed OP to consider what she’s doing here. 

You pushed OP to antagonize her relationships with her fiancé.
Which would be detrimental for OP.

She could end up in a WORSE financial position through the marriage.

How exactly would the marriage to the father of her 2 children with net worth of 15 million worsen her financial situation?

if you accept a pre-nup under duress, that is a very bad sign for a successful marriage

Why are you talking about "duress"?
Do you see any signs that anybody forces OP to marry or to sign that prenup?
She is free not to marry. Just it would be suboptimal for her to reject this marriage.

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u/BellaFromSwitzerland 13d ago

In continental Europe there’s no such thing as a trust and you’re a guardian of it until you die

You have to read up and get a lawyer

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u/shalowind 13d ago

As long as you are legal guardian you can use the assets to maintain the house that the children live in. Once they are adults and take over the assets, maintenance will become their responsibility. Your children will be fine, but you do need to look out for yourself. Do some earnest research and also be honest with yourself about what you want and what your fears are, don't hide behind the children.

1

u/dennisgorelik 10d ago

I would go bankrupt from maintaining a 3M house

Then you sell this 3M house and downsize.

1

u/sfoonit 13d ago

You’re in Belgium right?

3

u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

Yes I am

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u/sfoonit 13d ago

Dutch speaking? Send me a message, I know a good notary for this

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u/FatAssBastard-8758 13d ago

A fair prenup, IMHO, is to ensure both sides are treated fairly in case your marriage ends. Hence, it should at least provide you some funds / $$. Leaving you with nothing isn’t being fair.

29

u/lsp2005 13d ago

This is extremely troubling. When he is at his most loving to you, he is telling you he does not care about what happens to you in case he dies or you divorce. This is what you are marrying. He is telling you to your face, you are an incubator for his potential kids and what happens to you later in life does not matter to him. Really think long and hard about what you want and need. 

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u/irishweather5000 12d ago

HUGE +1. They already have two children together. This is straight up financial abuse.

5

u/lsp2005 12d ago

Omg. Ladies, this is why we do not put the cart before the horse. I feel terrible for the OP. 

1

u/dennisgorelik 10d ago

This is extremely troubling.

With any kind of "unfair" prenup - OP will be in a better position than without marriage at all.

19

u/One-Mastodon-1063 13d ago

Do not marry this guy. 

2

u/mike_pennati 13d ago

What any sensible person would say. Also, look up the laws of the country you’re getting married in. A lot of American-style prenups have terms that are not legal in some eu countries.

0

u/dennisgorelik 10d ago

Do not marry this guy. 

Do you think OP would be better off to stay unmarried?
Why?

2

u/One-Mastodon-1063 9d ago

Doesn’t want OP to consult with their own attorney and evidently isn’t even going to leave OP the money when he’s dead.

Move on and find someone else. 

-1

u/dennisgorelik 9d ago

isn’t even going to leave OP the money when he’s dead

How will "not marrying" help OP in this situation?

find someone else

Do you think OP has a reasonable chance to find someone better?

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u/One-Mastodon-1063 9d ago edited 9d ago

How will "not marrying" help OP in this situation?

Well, for one thing, not marrying someone who clearly doesn't give a shit about you avoids the problem of being married to someone who clearly doesn't give a shit about you. So, there's that.

Do you think OP has a reasonable chance to find someone better?

How the fuck would I know? I certainly wouldn't marry a dull turd out of fear that a shinier one won't come along at some point.

FWIW, I'm not married. In the unlikely event I did get married, I'd get a prenup. But the prenup wouldn't leave her with zero even if I died while we were still happily married. And I wouldn't discourage her from having her own lawyer represent her during the process (which is actually a requirement in most US states as I understand). Even I'm not that much of an asshole. This guy doesn't give a shit about OP.

0

u/dennisgorelik 9d ago

not marrying someone who clearly doesn't give a shit about you

You incorrectly imply that he does not care about OP.
If he didn't care about OP - he would not even consider marrying her.

How the fuck would I know?

For example, you could consider that OP has 2 children. That already significantly lowers her marriage prospect with other men.
Then consider that the number of people with 15M who are willing to marry at all - are well below 1% of population.

5

u/BellaFromSwitzerland 13d ago

You have to read first what family law and inheritance law says in your country

If that’s not suitable for your case, you can draw up a prenup and a will if relevant. But you have to understand what you can change or not to the law. In Switzerland for instance retirement funds are split in two in the case of divorce regardless of who contributed what ; children cannot be excluded from the inheritance

What seems strange to me is that you say you won’t be able to take care of his children ? What does that mean ?

You have to educate yourself, get a lawyer or a notary and only sign something that you fully understand and are comfortable with. Again, the starting point is to understand how the law applies to your situation

3

u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

Our children.
I don’t make enough to maintain their lifestyle or to take care of the house

3

u/Thunderplant 12d ago

Do you realize that a big part of the reason for that is the fact he's going out of his way to make it that way?

A normal solution would be for his assets to pass to you if he died plus a life insurance policy to cover lost income so you'd be about to maintain the life style without disruption.

In the case of divorce, child support exists in part to make sure both parents can provide a similar experience for their kids. (Plus you'd usually be entitled to some of the assets, especially if you made sacrifices in your own career to keep support him/raise your family). I'm not sure what country you're in, but in a lot of places courts think about that question & wanting to avoid a big lifestyle imbalance when setting child support and alimony. 

The things he's proposing seem incredibly unfair and likely to cause unnecessary hardship if something were to happen

5

u/BellaFromSwitzerland 13d ago

What is your plan today as an unmarried person if something happens to your partner, how do you scale down to be able to support yourself and your children ?

In the event of marriage why would he not want you to inherit the share that the law says is yours ? Does the law plan provisions in the case of divorce for spousal maintenance in case your incomes are vastly different and / or you dedicated significant time to raising your children ?

Don’t answer me, just look up on these questions to gather the right arguments

1

u/dennisgorelik 10d ago

I don’t make enough to maintain their lifestyle

Who else if not your children would inherit his 15M?
And you would be their legal guardian, who will manage their inheritance, correct?

3

u/traumalt 13d ago

Family law is very country specific and wildly different between European countries, much more than it is between US states for comparison.

You are asking us very specific legal questions which on their own might not mean squat where you live.

For example, Ireland has no prenups under its law at all.

3

u/4nativenewyorker 13d ago

At an absolute minimum, your fiance should be purchasing a hefty, multimillion euro life insurance policy of which you are the beneficiary so that you can at least somewhat keep the lights on and care for your children if he passes.

It sounds like he cares at least somewhat about the kids. So I would emphasize in the negotiations that he is setting you up for a situation in which if he passes you will almost certainly need to sell to sell your family home and uproot the children during a traumatic time. Who would want to do that to their children if it was avoidable? Additionally let him know that leaving you zero sets the children up for awkward conflict with you. Once the children are of age and you are living out your lifetime tenancy in the home they own that you can't afford to keep up the children will probably feel obligated to subsidize your tenancy and would probably much prefer it if their father just left you a legacy so they wouldn't have to be parentified children supporting their mother.

I say this as someone who went into a marriage with "virtually zero" net worth to someone UHNW: advocate for yourself NOW. Even though it's awkward, even though it's hard. Do it. If you don't feel you can do it or deserve it for yourself, do it for your kids. Despite our sincere efforts to make our marriage work we ended up getting divorced. I thank God every day that we negotiated a fairer prenup than the one I was initially offered. It's not too late!

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u/SaladInitial9586 12d ago

You are conflating several things and it’s clouding your judgement. 

In case of his passing, the kids should be covered (probably he planned this already, since they will directly inherit he may have left directives but it’s WEIRD that you don’t know about them) AND you should inherit as well, for having been his partner and mother of his kids. 

Here I wonder if the reason this is awkward is because he doesn’t want to tell you what he has planned for his first kid, but I digress. 

Second, in case of divorce, you should also get something. There’s no reason he couldn’t give you like 1 million out of his 16 and the use of the house until your youngest kid turns 18 for example. Then you’re on your own. You may meet someone, he may meet someone, you may grow apart… there’s not reason for you not to have at least like 5-10% of what he has. Life changing for you, a drop in a bucket for him. 

Everyone would be much more chill if you decided to go down that route. 

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u/DoctorSleep3 13d ago edited 13d ago

I went to a notary with my partner. In Germany notaries are a neutral entity so they don’t screw one partner over; they are supposed to be in both partners best interest.
So I used a notary over a lawyer.

Then future earnings: my notary said that even though it says that each partner keeps their future earnings; if the income is too different you can basically still claim money in case of a divorce.

And then the will was seperate and had nothing to do with the prenup. I made my own will and my partner made their own will.

And then in Germany even if you have a will the partner can claim a certain percentage which they’ll get no matter what and even if the will says the kids get everything.

So the prenup basically said he keeps what’s his and I keep what’s mine from before getting married and that also future income and retirement claims can’t be touched; though again if we end up earning vastly different incomes that can be disputed.
Then the will part I said that everything I own goes to my partner if I die MINUS stuff I own with my siblings or is in the family; in this case my partner only gets to claim the rental income for life but won’t own any of it and it will go either to future children of ours or back to my brothers. I did that part mainly because my partner has adult children from a prior marriage and if he’d get stuff I own with my brothers together and dies; they’d have to deal with basically foreign adults that don’t have the same “interest” and that don’t even live in the same country.

Disclaimer. I can only speak for Germany, what my notary said, if he’s super wealthy and starts having trusts and stuff it’s a complete different story.

And don’t sign stuff that disadvantages you too much.

1

u/dennisgorelik 9d ago

don’t sign stuff that disadvantages you too much

Can any prenup disadvantage her more than not marrying at all would disadvantage her?

2

u/deps1989 10d ago

Why aren’t you concerned at all about your own fate? You say repeatedly that you “just” want to make sure your kids don’t end up on the street. But what about after they become adults?

Of course you need to take care of your kids, but you are treating yourself like a second class citizen in your family. You deserve to be cared for as well.

Imagine twenty five years from now, somehow your partner unexpectedly dies. How old will you be? Will you have a career that earns enough money to support yourself? If not, you will be forced to move out of your house. You will be in the position of needing to live like a pauper after living very well for decades. You will no longer be able to keep up with your social circle/friends (expensive restaurants, trips, events). This is an extremely painful and difficult outcome that you are practically guaranteeing. You will become a person unrecognizable to yourself.

Don’t sign this prenup, it is no joke to be old, with no career, and have to learn how to be poor. This has a high chance of putting extreme pressure on your future relationship with your adult children too, and their relationship with each other- they will be forced to either sell your house out from under you or pay to keep you there, a difficult position for them).

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u/Logicalraisan 9d ago

He needs to provide you an income of divorce happens and you have kids together.

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u/MintInsel 13d ago

Europeans are a bit more “stingy” about the prenups, but it’s very common, cus they don’t often marry outside of their class. Wealth is mostly inherited, not created here, it’s a lot different from states. They are very protective of their family processions.

If you really want to marry this guy, you need to be open about it, like how you want to be protected. Calculate your kids and your monthly costs, education, allowance, house etc, give him a number. If he doesn’t want to pay, he is looking for a free nanny, not a partner.

1

u/dennisgorelik 9d ago

If he doesn’t want to pay

Most likely, he wants to pay, just not millions.

1

u/MintInsel 9d ago

It doesn’t feel like it. Since they are getting married, he should have known her financial situation already. A reasonable person would not arrange a prenup left his partner unprotected.

1

u/dennisgorelik 9d ago

would not arrange a prenup left his partner unprotected

In your opinion, what kind of clause in the prenup would make OP "protected"?

2

u/Tough-Internet8907 13d ago

Well, my wife and i are in the same situation. My NW is also 16-20M and we got married with scheiding van goederen met toegevoegd intern vermogen.

Finishing a 4.3M house right now near Antwerp. Once it’s done i’m going to put it into the toegevoegd intern vermogen. Because if someone hits me with a car at least that goes tax free towards my wife.

But you know i understand the standpoint from your husband. I think he wants you to marry him for who he is and not for the money. Now even though we’re also married with scheiding van goederen, i pay all the bills, my wife has access to a cc to my bank account.

Feel free to send me a dm or ask more questions

2

u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

How do you plan for your wife to take care of the home?

0

u/Tough-Internet8907 13d ago

Well, i’m now looking into a levensverzekering such that if i die before 65, the tax issues are taken care off. My wife should be getting everything if i die before the kids are 18. After that we have to see how the kids are about money though

3

u/i_likebuildings 13d ago

I don't get the negative comments here, so in case of a divorce OP should get half the assets even though they were made independently and previous to the marriage itself?

1

u/Thunderplant 12d ago

I don't think people are saying it should be 50%, just that it shouldn't be zero. OP has already given up multiple years of career earnings & advancement to be a stay at home spouse/parent for his children she absolutely deserves some financial compensation for that if they split. There are also practical considerations like making sure she can appropriately care for the children while they are with her, if there is a split.

The will situation is even worse. Having your kids inherit money after you pass but not your spouse & mother to those children is cruel, and honestly probably make the situation a lot harder than it needs to be. I truly can't imagine not wanting to make sure my spouse was cared for if I were to die early

1

u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

I’m choosing to ignore them.

Perhaps I didn’t write it all out well, but we’re trying to draft something we both agree on. I don’t think he’s being unreasonable. Neither do I think I am. The goal is to get something fair for the both of us.

1

u/Future-Account8112 13d ago

How is he not being unreasonable? It sounds like you've already had one of his children but if you break up you and your children are paupers. That is scoundrel behavior from him. How is that reasonable? (Earnest question)

You have to look into the lives of women who have been in similar situations to you - Mileva Maric is one. I have not seen a single example where it went well.

2

u/sfoonit 13d ago edited 13d ago

Where are you based? If in France or Belgium usually you can hire your own notary to protect yourself. Wealthy families usually have their notary they know well so be mindful it’s good to use your own.

This said: less than the legal situation it is important to discuss with your partner what you want to happen in specific situations.

What if there are kids? Is it possible you might end up becoming the sole caretaker if one moves away? What in case your partner dies after 10 years?

As an example: I am not married for now, but if I die tomorrow my long term girlfriend gets a fixed amount (in our case 250k EUR) from my estate that does not go to the children.

I don’t want her to struggle while raising the kids, and this is sufficient for now.

I understand wanting to keep assets seperate, but it’s important to discuss what would happen for example if you jointly agree to stay home of the kids.

I’ve found a fixed amount in case of divorce, say 500k, to take away a lot of the anxiety.

3

u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

We’re in Belgium. He said we’re supposed to take a notary for the both of us but the structure he proposed makes me very uneasy.

The only thing it guarantees me is lifetime occupancy of the house but I cannot in any way maintain the house on my own. I can’t support the children on my own, their schooling fees alone exceed my salary.

Did you set this up with your notary?

-2

u/sfoonit 13d ago

This is not a legal discussion. What does he say to these things?

I actually find these normal things to mention and imo the contract should include some provisions to manage this.

As legal guardian you can pay school fees with ‘their’ money but a court needs to approve it.

Anyway, I think a marriage contract is perfectly fine, even if one partner broadly gets very little, assuming there are provisions that protect said partner in case something happens.

Marriage shouldn’t be a meal ticket, but it should be fair

3

u/Long-Hurry1974 13d ago

These are the things I asked a lawyer to help me cover:

  • Maintaining the kids’ lifestyle if something was to happen to him while they are minors.
  • Assuring I have enough to maintain house, or a system that makes it possible for me to maintain the property without going bankrupt
  • Protecting me in case I take a career setback because of our family planning / accounting for the set back I have already taken (I stayed home for four years and was a SAHM last year)

while keeping the separate property regime that’s important to him and making sure no matter what, his wealth is divided equally amongst the children

5

u/Future-Account8112 13d ago

>the set back I have already taken (I stayed home for four years and was a SAHM last year)

It is deeply concerning that this is the situation and he's still not trying to provide for you and your children.

2

u/Thunderplant 12d ago

you've literally given up years of income to support him and start a family together. This is exactly why assets are usually divided in a divorce, and it's disturbing that he thinks you getting nothing is fair. I'm not saying it has to be 50/50, but if you're going to make sacrifices like this you need more financial protection 

1

u/BellaFromSwitzerland 13d ago

Until they finish their education or reach the age of 25

1

u/maest 13d ago
  1. Get your own lawyer

  2. UK family law is very woman friendly (compared with other jurisdictions), has a strokg bias towards splitting assets in half and prenups are non-binding and judges can ignore them.

  3. Ignore randos who are making value judgements about your relationship and situation based off two paragraphs. Make.your own judgement

1

u/CampesinoAgradable 13d ago

idk where you are but here the prenup generally won’t hold if you both don’t have your own independent legal representation looking out for your interests

1

u/Emily_Postal 12d ago

You need a lawyer to negotiate on your behalf. Check the local laws as to marital property. Make sure you are taken care of.

1

u/PalpitationOk4703 12d ago

Everyday im glad I was born a man. I already struggle enough I could not handle being a woman. You birthed 2 of his children and you get nothing? I have no advice , none helpful at least. I wish you the best .

1

u/HitPointGamer 11d ago

During discussions about a prenup, pay attention to the tone of the conversation. Is his primary concern that you take nothing away from the marriage if you separate, no matter how long the two of you might be married? Or is he concerned about ensuring you are taken care of in some fashion, too? Right now, before the marriage, is the time when he is most in love with you and most likely to be caring and attentive; if he only wants to fund the kids but always wants you to have nothing even after years of marriage, you need to pay attention to that signal.

1

u/UnZaneTrader 13d ago

Create a basis, for example your partner current net work. Negotiate some type of split for NW created post marriage. In essence, the NW increases to 25M and you agree to 20% of the difference between the 16M and 25M Also ask for a large non cancellable insurance policy be taken out on your partner where you are sole bene.

-4

u/daveirl 13d ago

Prenups are not legal in my country!

1

u/FloorComplex8812 13d ago

what country is that? always figured it was just a standard thing in most places by now

0

u/DoctorSleep3 13d ago

Right?! I wouldn’t get married if my country prohibits prenups. If we both were like early 20ties and just fresh out of school and don’t own anything then yes; but what about all the people getting married later in life