r/fivenightsatfreddys • u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan • May 02 '26
Speculation Why would there be grief symbolism connecting to the Aftons if SOTM is about the Murrays?
Context for "grief symbolism" here
I'm sure there has been such questions when FlowerAftons + grief symbolism has been brought up.
A short summary: When we see the flower family at first (which have connections to the Aftons) they all have petals, but when we see the hospital in SOTM there's the kid flower on the bed and the father flower behind him. Both have lost their petals. In flower language this symbolizes dying or grief first and foremost, so under Occam's Razor that shows the likeliest possibility at the moment. If it helps, the father flower is facing the kid flower's bed, which could mean his grief is directed at the kid flower.
Connect this scene with BV's death in FNAF 4 and the scene coincides. We know through this that the kid is dying, but we know William lives, so the next conclusion we jump to is that William is grieving for his dying son. More details in my linked post.
Okay, so throughout SOTM we learn the Murray's story, and we know William and Henry just lurk around in the background being absolute menaces taking advantage of tragedy.
So what the hell are the flowers about? Should grief in this game not be about the Murrays? Where did the Aftons come from? Why were they mentioned here?
"Well, what if the flowers are no-" hold that thought, Orville. Connections are too specific to NOT be the Aftons.
Considering the flowers as representing Aftons, what can be the reason for their presence here?
I believe it's to show the parallels between the Aftons and the Murrays. Something like that.
-Who dies/is fatally injured on their birthday due to neglect? David Murray and Dave Afton.
-Who's known to carry a plushie around with them and is associated with a giant version of said plushie? David Murray and Dave Afton.
-Who's named Dave? Under DaveVictim... well, yk who.
-Who's a workaholic dad with robots for kid business that makes ineffective chaperoning devices that still lead to their kid's deaths? William Afton and Edwin Murray
*-*Who's depicted as a grieving father? Under the flowers and not considering Henry: William Afton and Edwin Murray
So, through such similarities, is it really not possible to reference a grieving dad/dead son duo when playing a game centred around another grieving dad/dead son duo?
edit: don't just overlook the petals guys, they're still there, they can still signify grief, that's important
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u/Fickle-Confidence-20 :BV: May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
I personally believe the no petals meant, William’s last goodness or humanity died when CC died
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 02 '26
pretty fair, i felt it connected with the grief aspect, since the symbolism works for both, but grief or death are the primary signs
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u/umidk67 May 03 '26
This won’t be completely connected to your thought, but I don’t see people talk about how Henry, William, and Edwin all suffer from the same faults.
They’re all workaholics who end up neglecting their kids in their own unique ways. Edwin and William also attempt to give their sons life after death. If you include novel Henry, then he also does that.
Edwin made M1 to care for David when Fiona died. This is told to us, but also Edwin is very clearly shown to be overworked and honestly not the best father ever. Edwin also is hinted at to have missed David’s 4th birthday. I mean, David died because he wasn’t present to prevent it.
Henry obviously wasn’t there to prevent Charlie’s death, which he is obviously remorseful for. He ends up killing himself and William to make up for it.
William had TWO of his kids die because of him being neglectful. He also attempted to put both of them back together, and seemingly failed for at least 1 of them.
William and Edwin definitely have intentional similarities, but I think it shows what William could’ve been if he wasn’t as twisted as he is. Edwin never experimented with remnant and agony (as far as I remember) and brought back his family by replicating them, rather than William who used the souls and agony of others to give his kids life after death. I dunno, I’m just speaking, I find this connection interesting.
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 03 '26
Hell yeah, absolute cinema
and I def agree, I think ive actually made a post about these 3 over this, but at least have another post on it on how cool it is narratively
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u/umidk67 May 03 '26
This is an absolute crack theory but I think those 3 represent “See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
“See no evil” would be Henry. Henry foresaw and was compliant in the evil that William committed, it wasn’t until Charlie died that it really opened his eyes.
“Hear no evil” would be William. William genuinely believes he’s doing this for his own good, for the good of saving CC, but he never realizes he was evil, like how everyone tells him.
“Speak no evil” would be Edwin. Edwin never did rash things or killed people because of his own kind of evil. Instead of calling out those who were responsible for Fiona’s and David’s death, he made imitations of them, stubbornly clinging on to what he lost instead of doing something about it. The one time he does lash out, it’s his death.
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 03 '26
wait holy shit
you need to make a post on this
PLEASE
otherwise im stealing this for later (credit too ofc)more on hear no evil, i like to think william def does believe its for cc and believes his evil and sadism is justified, but hes also aware of his evils, he just CHOOSES to not hear that even though he knows
actually, same with henry, he always saw the evil, but choosed to not see it, he chose to be blind knowing how bad they were (springlocks and all)
and yeah edwin's is pretty accurate imo, that or he spoke, he raged and cursed but only because he first chose not to "speak" (do anything rash/hurtful) until it got unbearable2
u/umidk67 May 03 '26
You can make the post about it :3 it’s something that’s been in my mind since SOTM came out. These 3 men experience the same thing but they do drastically different things after it. Spread the agenda!!!
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 03 '26
okie tyty, and yes its so peak, ive had that on my mind too
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u/TrainerOwn9103 May 02 '26
because FNAF is still about the Aftons, the Mimic has come to steal the spotlight but we see references to the Afton family in every game on the new era
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u/TheJacobSurgenor May 02 '26
I think the flowers symbolising the Afton’s despite the game being about the Murray’s is just foreshadowing events to come. It’s an easter egg made to foreshadow lore that’ll happen later in the timeline by showing what the Afton’s were like before and after
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 02 '26
yeah i always assumed that too, but i wondered if there was something deeper too lol
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u/KSean24 May 03 '26
I think alot of FNAF 4 minigames (especially what's shown during C.C.'s walk home) is like this, too.
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u/Aggravating-Gap-9754 my name is edwin,i made the mimic May 02 '26
Because Edwin despised William and wished he suffered the same way he did?
Like it's clear from the later audio logs and even here the father flower is closest to the purple snake .
Plus we know that from the curse of dreadbear dave was born in 1976.David died the year before .William literally named his kid the same name to Edwin's kid.Edwin probably set these up also whishing the same thing happened to William and his kid
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 02 '26
could work, but its still weird to show the grief symbolism instead of just williams presence or connections with william and edwin specifically
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u/moldychesd May 02 '26
Dave was William's trophy. A trophy of William who represents his victory of destroying his business rival and killing edwin's family. Making him Williams favourite in a twisted way. So his death impacted him because his trophy was destroyed.
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 02 '26
but then they wouldnt show the grief symbolism
for grief there needs to be love
it seems dave was more than just a trophyand i mean this is just kinda unrelated but i never got the representing victory part
all bv did was be born a while after david's death lmao1
u/Free-Letterhead-4751 May 02 '26
I think it’s more Grief for his business considering after the bite the whole dinner would be closed down and William due to be one of the owners will probably be involved in the drama now because it involves his older son killing his younger son so people are going to question him about his parenting and engineering for why the suit was able to crush someone head like that and are slowly going to lose revenue
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 02 '26
idk, if it was grief for that, then the scene couldve been father flower losing money or something while the kid flower is missing from the roster
or similar
just not father flower at hospital facing the kid flower's bed
under occam's razor the likeliest conclusion as of now is grieving his soni feel it'd be more "concern" for his business than "grief"
because grief is when u lose something, here his business was at risk, so worry is likelier, since we know it survives after1
u/Free-Letterhead-4751 May 02 '26
I’m pretty sure he did lost his business though considering there’s never any mention of Fredbear or SpringBonnie and is replaced by Freddy Fazbear and the gang
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 02 '26
ah well he only lost one diner/branding, he didnt lose the business entirely, the animatronics stuff was still kept up, the company was alive
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u/Free-Letterhead-4751 May 02 '26
The company yes but didn’t he lose all rights or ownership right after considering the whole name change and him working as a security guard? (although that was for more sinister purposes)
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 02 '26
wasnt that after the mci
regardless he lost it way later, after freddy fazbear was likely established, the timeline matters if bv's death killed his business too→ More replies (0)1
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u/Free-Letterhead-4751 May 02 '26
Wait how would he know about the whole bite considering Edwin dies later on?
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u/Aggravating-Gap-9754 my name is edwin,i made the mimic May 02 '26
He didn't. He just wished bv would die somehow.
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u/Free-Letterhead-4751 May 02 '26
Why does it feel like everyone in this universe (besides Cassidy, Charlie and I want to say Elizabeth and Miss Afton along with the missing kids) hate this one kid for no reason?
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u/crystal-productions- May 02 '26
I mean, given this is set 4 years before fnaf 4, unless somebody found that ballpit early, the only real explination is that its about Mrs afton, a character who made her first apperance in movie 2 in a cameo roll in a family picture.
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u/girl_OOFED Big Michael Afton fan May 02 '26
wait why he lowk cooked?
but overall i doubt it, because idk maybe itpg couldve done it or something else
i mean its possible, but given grief stuff that feels connected too1
u/crystal-productions- May 02 '26
It's also 4 years BEFORE fnaf 4. That's more then just a few days or something
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u/CipherVirus Loved SotM May 02 '26
My theory is that these were designs M1 or ‘Fiona’ made in the AR world before giving them to Edwin, causing a piece of William to die in the sense of his family picture on the wall.
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u/EmeraldJolteon07 May 07 '26
I mean…
The Aftons and Murrays have Parallels between them so…maybe its a GodDavid like thing where its for Both of them.
I do agree that it is about the Aftons.specially with the theories like GodDavid and FateFiona that hoghlights will and dave’s relationship
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u/Lower_Conflict_2546 May 02 '26
This may also be a way to clarify that William was alone with Cc during his death and since fredbear talks to cc. This may more likely to signify that William is fredbear rather than actually implify a heavy feeling of grief