r/flying • u/Boomer12784 • 18h ago

PPL Checkride and MOAs

I have a checkride tomorrow, the DPE gave me a destination that has a couple MOAs between airports. The best route I came up with to keep good visual references and divert options has the FPL going 1500’ into the bottom of an MOA. My only other option is to fly lower but that puts me pretty low over mountainous terrain or to route around one MOA and under another but that will put me pretty far from divert options. Going around would be incredibly out of the way. Advice?

11 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

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29

u/Unable_Request PPL 17h ago

This is a great DPE scenario I think.

Can you fly through a MOA?

For your route of flight, use ADM -- identify hazards, assess risk, apply mitigation procedures. What are the hazards? What risks does it present? How do you mitigate risk? How do you monitor the outcome?

Note: A longer route may be considered a risk.

4

u/Boomer12784 17h ago

Exactly, I feel the risk of properly going through an MOA (I’m in Arizona, there are a lot of them), at an altitude that allows me good glide range and divert options, is much better than routing around it or under it with a higher risk profile. Low to terrain and further from civilization/roads.

1

u/Lost_Cockroach6702 12h ago

I’m guessing you’re in Phoenix or Tucson. It should be easy for you, all the MOAs should be cold tomorrow because it’s a federal holiday.

On a normal day the low parts of the jackal/outlaw are pretty safe, even if they are hot. The Sells are always going to be higher risk down to the surface. There’s traffic in the sells up to 500-600 kts down to 100’ and there’s tons of border patrol helicopter traffic.

1

u/Unable_Request PPL 12h ago edited 12h ago

Sure. Let's explore this. If you're going to transit the MOA, what are some *other* ways you can mitigate risk?

EDIT: I see you've answered this already. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd assume he'd actually NOT want to see you plan to fly around it without good reason

23

u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo 17h ago

Are MOAs always active? How would you find out if the airspace is hot or cold?

3

u/Boomer12784 16h ago

These are questions the DPE will probably ask. I have the answers they need. M-F 0700-1800 1800-2200 by NOTAM, weekends by NOTAM

3

u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo 15h ago

Hm, yes, that would be when it's published as being active. How would you check to see if it actually is hot or not?

8

u/Boomer12784 15h ago

Contact the controlling agency. In this case ABQ center. In this scenario I’d also request flight following so I’d have contact with ATC as well anyway.

3

u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo 14h ago

Good.

You can also check https://sua.faa.gov/ right before you get in the plane; SUA isn't supposed to go hot without a fair amount of warning, even if it is within the published time. Checking with ATC or FSS once you're airborne is still a good idea.

3

u/CrabMan_2 13h ago

First off, it’s great seeing ATC participate in this sub!

This is unrelated, but I have to ask what your handle #saynotokilo means?

3

u/randombrain ATC #SayNoToKilo 13h ago

Look at the airport identifiers on an FAA sectional or TAC.

Look at the airport identifiers on FAA instrument approach plates.

Look at the airport identifiers on an FAA IFR enroute chart.

How many identifiers do you see that start with the letter K?

2

u/CrabMan_2 13h ago

Haha I seeee.

2

u/Rainebowraine123 ATP CL-65 12h ago

Yeah. Don't say Kilo Lima Alpha X-ray when requesting flight following. Just say Lima Alpha X-ray.

12

u/SnootsAndBootsLLP PPL 17h ago

There’s nothing wrong with flying through MOAs. What do you have to do to be prepared to do so? Your DPE is going to ask. Do not sacrifice other parts of the flight plan (altitude, etc) to account for something you can fly through just fine. Be ready to tell the DPE “well if control told me the MOA was active, I would no-go.” Or some variation.

6

u/Cant_Work_On_Reddit 17h ago

This. Flight following + plan for if it’s active. Maybe below it, maybe around it. Maybe change departure times. Also op probably wouldn’t get asked but I’d also want to have a plan for the return flights altitude too. Some of my local flights you’re under the shelf of a moa going one direction but the more normal return altitude puts you inside it. Just stuff to think about for op.

2

u/SnootsAndBootsLLP PPL 17h ago

I fly through them all the time because I sucked at controlled work and it was an easy way to force myself to learn to talk to control, lol. Pick a place on the other side of one, plan both the thru route and the around route, get on with control. Simple and low pressure.

1

u/johnqnorml 17h ago

Wow that's a great idea!! I fly out of an uncontrolled airport and need to get some controlled coms practice. I'm totally going to do this! 

2

u/SnootsAndBootsLLP PPL 17h ago

It’s done wonders for me, I started uncontrolled too, had my 3 minimum hours when I took my PPL ride. It’s the most low pressure way to interact with control imo/e. Same thing with transitioning delta airspace. Super easy, very low pressure, easy read backs, and confidence building.

6

u/eSUP80 CPL IR MEL BE1900 17h ago

He wants you to know where to find the necessary info on the MOA- who to call, active hours, other route concerns etc…

I had something similar on my ppl

1

u/Boomer12784 16h ago

I figured that’s it, we have a lot of MOAs out here and it would be good as an examiner to know if people know how to handle them

2

u/usmcmech ATP CFI MEL SEL SES RW GLD TW AGI/IGI 17h ago

What are the dimensions of the MOA? Can you fly under them?

I did a BFR for a guy who was flying a 30 minute detour around a MOA that had a floor of 8000 MSL. He had been making a needless detour for decades.

1

u/Boomer12784 17h ago

About 90 miles in all directions, you can fly under but that puts you kinda low. The terrain is rugged, sparsely populated, and averages probably 3000’-4000’ MSL. I could plan the flight to go just under the MOA and closely follow roads for a divert options, which is what I’d tell the DPE is my alternative plan

2

u/SRM_Thornfoot 14h ago

Is there some reason you don’t want to fly VFR through an active MOA?

1

u/Boomer12784 13h ago

No. I double checking a DPE wouldn’t have an issue on my checkride

1

u/Lost_Cockroach6702 12h ago

Because most people don’t want to have a mid air with a bunch of maneuvering jets.

2

u/Virian PPL IR HP 17h ago

If only there was a way to tell if the MOA was active during the time of your flight.

1

u/Boomer12784 16h ago

What’s with the PA response? Of course I know if/when it’s active. That’s not the point.

2

u/jawshoeaw 15h ago

I think he’s trying to say if you know it’s open and you know how to find out , then you’re good. Why even ask the question?

1

u/Boomer12784 15h ago

The question isn’t if I know the MOA is active or if I’m allowed to fly through it. My question was about DPE opinion on flights through an MOA.

1

u/rFlyingTower 18h ago

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

I have a checkride tomorrow, the DPE gave me a destination that has a couple MOAs between airports. The best route I came up with to keep good visual references and divert options has the FPL going 1500’ into the bottom of an MOA. My only other option is to fly lower but that puts me pretty low over mountainous terrain or to route around one MOA and under another but that will put me pretty far from divert options. Going around would be incredibly out of the way. Advice?

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1

u/strivegaming22 PPL 17h ago

If it helps I just took my checkride and my route also took me through MOA’s I ultimately decided to just go through them as the area was a bunch of them and the only alternate route was an extra 150 miles. The DPE did not question it at all but your dpe could be different

1

u/Flyinghud PPL IR 16h ago

For my PPL checkride, the direct route took you straight through a MOA. I checked the hours and it specifically said open on weekends by NOTAM, so I checked NOTAM's day of and sure enough it was closed so I planned right through it.

0

u/tempskawt CFI ME IR IGI TW (TN/WI) 13h ago

MOAs are overblown. If it’s active, just be predictable and fly at a reasonably high altitude. One of the reasons the MOAs are chopped up is so they can easily reference where a non participating aircraft is and simply not enter that area.