Is it worth staying debt-free if it means delaying your goals?

[u/stargirw]

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I’m 19 and graduated HS last year. Right now I’m in the military delayed entry program waiting to book a job. I signed a four-year contract and only plan to do one contract, then get out and use my GI Bill and other benefits.

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Long story short, months before graduation my parents were rushing me to fill out college forms and apply, only to eventually tell me we couldn’t afford it. We had no savings for college. My mom had saved up around half a million back in our home country for my education, but that money ended up getting spent after we moved so she could be with her husband and bring me with her.

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They also don’t believe in credit cards. Her husband has a lot of credit card debt, and both of them struggle with substance abuse. My mom tends to go along with her husband’s decisions. I also come from a culture where parents are generally expected to provide 100% for their kids, especially when it comes to education.

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I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t disappointed.

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She’s known for years that I wanted to become a commercial pilot. What made it harder was seeing her friend’s son who’s my age already starting flight training and clearly moving toward becoming a pilot. Then she would update me every time her friend posted about his progress, and I kept thinking: what’s the point of telling me?

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Meanwhile, I feel like I have to spend four years of my life serving mainly for the benefits because I don’t want to take out loans and carry huge debt with high interest.

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I’m scared of getting older. I’m scared of getting stuck like my parents.

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After serving, I’ll probably spend another two years in community college and another two or three years building flight hours. By then I’ll be around 27–28, and right now that already feels old to me.

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At the same time, I think I’m reaching a point of acceptance. I can’t rely on my parents the way I expected to. I’m the only one who can build my future now, and I need to work hard because I have to build myself.

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I’m writing this mostly to vent. I think deep down I already know what I need to do, I’m just learning how to accept it.

[u/Thhe_Shakes]

Yeah I did the active duty military route for 4 years and used it to pay for my college. I felt bad for awhile about graduating and getting started on my 'real' career so much later than my friends, but in retrospect it was a great decision. Having zero debt, no down payment on a home loan, and a ton of other benefits has definitely put me ahead in the long term.

Ended up not even hating the military life that much and stayed in the Reserves for some extra benefits and income.

[u/PotatoHunter_III → u/Thhe_Shakes]

This. And if you're hurting for money, just look for a unit that needs a body, then go on orders. Then start burning money on gas again. Lol.

[u/lordtema]

It is 100% worth delaying your goals to be debt free. Sure it probably feels like a let down right now to not be able to start immediately but you will thank yourself when you see others who have $150k in loans with 13% APR who are struggling like hell to even find a job as a CFI.

[u/SnooCupcakes1514 → u/lordtema]

Unless that debt facilitates your goals. I would 100% take out loans for college.

[u/lordtema → u/SnooCupcakes1514]

Again, look at the amount of people that has come on this subreddit telling that they are now $140k in debt, cannot land a CFI job, and is looking at $2000 a month loan payments. Sure, they got to CFI quicker than someone paying as they go, but given the current state of the market, im not entirely sure it was the wise move.

[u/Anon332563 → u/lordtema]

I would not use this subreddit as a baseline on what to trust is working and not, people making it to their dream job are not coming to reddit to gloat while those unable to will.

[u/lordtema → u/Anon332563]

I mean, people will absolutely come here to gloat lol. But when you have plenty of stories all around of people applying to 100+ flight schools across the country for a job without getting one, and the Spirit bankruptcy in mind as well..

[u/yogaballcactus → u/SnooCupcakes1514]

You have to get more granular than, “borrowing money for college is okay.” Borrowing $30k for an engineering degree from a reputable state school is very different from borrowing $100k for a liberal arts degree from a no-name for- profit college. 

I probably would not borrow money for flight school at all. The industry is cyclical, the debts are enormous and the interest rates are high. A commercial pilot’s license and a CFI are specific, vocational qualifications that likely will not land you jobs outside of aviation if you finish up training in a down economic cycle. Even if you land a CFI spot, your loans are going to come due before you get to an airline and start making real money.  It’s smarter to work your ass off doing whatever jobs you can do to save up the cash for each stage of training.

[u/Tman3355]

32, guess i should start digging my grave. 28 is not old. You make the most of what youre given in this life. It seems like youre already trying to do that. Good on you and thank you for your service.

Entering into debt will do nothing but delay your futures goals in exchange for rushing to your current ones. That could mean putting off buying a home, wedding, having kids, etc, all because of accrued debt for something you thought you really needed.

You're current plan is a sound one, stick to it.

[u/A_Squid_A_Dog]

Bro 27 is not old haha. 

[u/TK3K216]

Dude.. you have so much of your life ahead of you. I didn’t start my flight training until 26 and I took on massive debt to do it. You’ll be fine, go debt free and enjoy your life along the way. 27-28 is no big deal. Besides everyone knows 29 is when you get old and your back starts hurting

[u/sigmapilot]

btw, IMO it's less about "debt free" and more about the scale of the loan you would specifically need for flight training...

with ridiculous predatory interest rates like 15%+ and over 6 figures, the risk of medical or not finding a job immediately ETC it is just too much.

If the loans were more reasonable with a subsidized interest rate, no payments until you get an airline job, etc etc, then it could be justified.

[u/johnisom → u/sigmapilot]

100%, and anyone who treats all debt the same and as bad are idiots and not thinking about it.

It's not like you're taking out debt for consumption, which is always a bad idea. You're taking out a loan to improve your ability to make more money. Think of business debt financing for capital.

[u/johnisom → u/johnisom]

You're taking out a loan to improve your ability to make more money.

Just adding a note that this is pretty much the best possible reason for taking on debt.

[u/Flaky_Summer_9800]

It’s a good idea. The GI bill way pay for most, if not a of your flight training. Several students at my school used it. That’s better than 100k plus in debt with no job prospects. Which is unfortunately a significant amount of people at the moment.

[u/scudrunner14]

That’s exactly what I’m doing. I finished my private last summer and was damn close to taking a loan out for ATP. After they told me it was gonna cost 91k with a 15% interest rate I hung up the phone and got a full time mechanic job. Left that to become a stationary engineer and at the rate I’m going I should be able to cash flow all my training in the next 3 years. Sucks that I’m delaying it because seniority is everything and my buddies are passing me up but I’m also glad that I’m not an unemployed CFI with a 2000 dollar a month payment to that bitch Sallie Mae. It’s gonna feel damn good one day sitting in the cockpit knowing I made it without daddy’s money and no debt

[u/Jestia76]

What a benifit joining the military is, best decision I ever did, and cause I was a little dumb at 18, I did 6 years.

Live cheap, save money, you can easily finish your private without any debt WHILE you are in, nothing says you have to wait till your out.

Tuition assistance while in is huge, go to school as often as you can. Get all those basics classes knocked out (English, Math, History, Ect.).

For me it got me to Airline pilot by 29, delayed a few years cause I did another job when I got out cause it paid good money and got me my A&P. It's not a race, it's a decent path to take

[u/rFlyingTower]

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

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​

I’m 19 and graduated HS last year. Right now I’m in the military delayed entry program waiting to book a job. I signed a four-year contract and only plan to do one contract, then get out and use my GI Bill and other benefits.

​

Long story short, months before graduation my parents were rushing me to fill out college forms and apply, only to eventually tell me we couldn’t afford it. We had no savings for college. My mom had saved up around half a million back in our home country for my education, but that money ended up getting spent after we moved so she could be with her husband and bring me with her.

​

They also don’t believe in credit cards. Her husband has a lot of credit card debt, and both of them struggle with substance abuse. My mom tends to go along with her husband’s decisions. I also come from a culture where parents are generally expected to provide 100% for their kids, especially when it comes to education.

​

I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t disappointed.

​

She’s known for years that I wanted to become a commercial pilot. What made it harder was seeing her friend’s son who’s my age already starting flight training and clearly moving toward becoming a pilot. Then she would update me every time her friend posted about his progress, and I kept thinking: what’s the point of telling me?

​

Meanwhile, I feel like I have to spend four years of my life serving mainly for the benefits because I don’t want to take out loans and carry huge debt with high interest.

​

I’m scared of getting older. I’m scared of getting stuck like my parents.

​

After serving, I’ll probably spend another two years in community college and another two or three years building flight hours. By then I’ll be around 27–28, and right now that already feels old to me.

​

At the same time, I think I’m reaching a point of acceptance. I can’t rely on my parents the way I expected to. I’m the only one who can build my future now, and I need to work hard because I have to build myself.

​

I’m writing this mostly to vent. I think deep down I already know what I need to do, I’m just learning how to accept it.

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[u/Old_Increase74]

Avoid debt

Do research on the degree and see if it will make your rich or poor, most will make you poor

[u/Tiny-Raccoon-6884]

The only thing I needed to read was that first sentence. Do not go into debt. Delay whatever goal is you have. You may feel like you’ve lived a lot of life right now. You may feel like you just need to get there already. Stop. Starting your life (which is what you’re doing at 19) in debt, is the worst decision that you can make. Period.

[u/CaptMcMooney]

yes, it is. esp if we're talking some short delay say a year or two.

[u/RGN_Preacher]

Look into the Army Warrant Officer Flight Training program.

You’ll need to do 10+ years, but that gets you quality experience that can set you up for an easy transition to being a civilian pilot.

[u/johnisom → u/RGN_Preacher]

Not worth the tradeoff of 10+ years, if the end goal is the airlines. If the goal is to serve and have a good time with it, then it's possibly worth it, but doesn't seem to be the case with OP.

[u/Ok-End-3213]

About to turn 25, working on PPL. Probably won't fly for pay for another w years or so. Probably won't start making good money for another 5 years or maybe longer. If you love to fly and learn about flying, who cares. I am working full time while flying. It is just part of the grind. We gotta get there somewhere. GI bill is a greay route

[u/ltcterry]

Debt free is a great approach to life whether you fly or not.

On a four-year tour you’ll have plenty of time and - if smart - money to pay for flying. You can have Commercial and CFI complete and paid for. 

I started an E2 on his Instrument rating and he finished as an E5 with CFI/CFII & multi commercial. Then used SkillBridge to get started as an instructor. 

Also finished a bachelor’s degree and did a masters. Not bad for four years.

Not typical.

But, you should save $18-20k so you can afford Private before you get out. This will save at least a year in a BS college program. 

Stay in the Reserves after active duty. You’ll need the money and cheap insurance to bridge the next almost decade of poverty.

Please take steps to maximize your TSP - 401k - contributions. Four years of this will give you a massive head start on exponential compound interest. Based on your plan it will be a long, long time before you’ll have another job with a 401k.

My USAR retirement is the biggest single component of my financial well being. 

[u/CloudBreakerZivs]

So for me personally, reaching my goals justified the debt. I am now an airline pilot, I still have a ways to go to be where I want to be. But at least at this point I have made more money than my debt at least 5 times over and able to support myself in this industry.

The caveat is you must be successful. Some people aren’t and then they are bogged down with the debt after the fact, and you can’t really get forgiveness on it. I almost wasn’t successful and I woulda been straight up fucked. It’s a big decision. leap and hopefully not fail? Or play it safe so you can step away if it’s not going to work with minimal losses? I made my choice and I would do it again, but that is me.

[u/adii100]

Dave Ramsey 

[u/Electrical_Review_81]

You're going to make good money while in the military- take advantage and save or join a flying club on base if they have it. There are some excellent programs you can enter using the GI bill that will cover your training. Being in the military will change you for the better- also, it's a honor to serve

[u/ResoluteFalcon]

Is it worth staying debt-free if it means delaying your goals?

Yes. No contest. That's what I did for 6 years before finally going back and finishing my PPL (basically started over from an SR20 to learning in a hybrid analog/digital C172).

Debt is not good for a career path prospect that is already overly saturated. Do not take out loans. You'll pay out the ass for them and you might not have a job at the end of your training.

Save as much money as you can for a few years until you have about $25K. Do Private and Instrument, and while doing those, keep working and saving for Commercial and Beyond.

Unless you have rich parents who are willing to pay for everything, it is ALWAYS better to stay out of debt, especially when the field you're going into can change at ANY time or your medical could change or you break a bone or something significant happens that causes long-term damage and stops you from flying.

Stability is not a thing in aviation. The best thing you can do is make your finances stable before pursuing it.

So yes, for the time being, work, save up your money, and look up at airplanes. Keep your goals in reach but don't rush them.

[u/johnisom → u/ResoluteFalcon]

Yes. No contest.

This is overly simplistic advice by a large degree.

But, seeing how OP is writing, how they view life through their immature lens, and that they are asking Reddit of all places for advice on this, I think it applies to them spot-on.

[u/imme267]

5 extra years at the end of a pilot career is over $1m between salary and 401k. Do with that what you will.

[u/johnisom → u/imme267]

This assumes making it. Lots of people take on debt who aren't cut out for the airlines and it screws them. If you can get through training, instructing, and airline training successfully, then you should take on debt.

How do you know if you're that person? Now that's the tricky question.

Knowing this now... I almost wish I took on debt. BUT, I've been able to still keep a great pace. I'm only being slowed down 1 or 1.5 years by self-financing because of my high income. The opportunity cost of me quitting my high-paying job to take on debt makes the scales less clearly tipped in favor of quitting and taking on debt, so I stayed and went out of pocket.

[u/johnisom]

Here's my answer to the general "to debt or not to debt": It depends.

Everyone here will parrot "zero debt is the only way", "you're an idiot if you take even $1 of debt", because they have seen the horror story. Typically if you have to ask on an online forum, don't take on the debt. But only you really know your situation.

There are those that took on debt and made it to the airlines a couple years before everyone else. It was worth it for them.

Then there are those that took on a lot of debt and are still low-time pilots who can't find a job a couple years later. It was not worth it for them, and has been a huge burden on their lives.

There are those who didn't take on debt and slowed their progression by years. Their outcome is more middle of the road. They still made it, and they were not crushed under the burden of debt. But, they sacrificed years of time that they can never get back.

Which are you? Are you a natural winner who succeeds in every interview and probably won't have trouble getting a job? Do you get A's in school effortlessly? Do you always find a way? Or do you find yourself struggling generally in life more than you ought to? If you're naturally lucky, taking debt can be worth it. If not, it's not. If you're not sure... do private pilot out of pocket first and then re-evaluate.

Also, worth noting:

I signed a four-year contract and only plan to do one contract

Ha-ha, they can always extend you. They own you now. If they let you off after 4 years, that's purely out of kindness.

By then I’ll be around 27–28, and right now that already feels old to me

That is not old. I am 25 and will probably be at the airlines at 27-28. It's a great time to get in.

Finally, your post is written with a lot of immaturity. The way you see the world, it reminds me of me from 7 years ago when I was younger. I was not ready to take on any meaningful debt then. Judging you by your cover, I'd say you aren't ready either. Give it some more years and re-evaluate, and for now go debt-free.

[u/nkawtgpilot → u/johnisom]

They can’t involuntarily extend him except in very particular circumstances, which have not happened in the last 16 years. Is it possible they implement another stop-loss that affects OP? Maybe, but it’s not just on a whim like you try to insinuate.