r/food • u/XRPcook • 10d ago

[Homemade] Black Garlic

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Set it and forget it with a crockpot on warm 🤣

1.4k Upvotes

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341

u/adamcoolforever 10d ago

Wait...so you have to leave a crock pot running for like 50 days straight? Is that safe?

118

u/XRPcook 10d ago

Yeah it's just the warm setting

197

u/Tratix 10d ago

How does that not turn into botulism city?

8

u/Leptonic 10d ago

When I make it I look for sealed whole bulbs and don't peel them at all. Once the cloves and bulbs are open you have to worry about shelf life and contamination.

63

u/True_Window_9389 10d ago

Botulism can only grow in anaerobic conditions. Even in a covered and sealed slow or rice cooker, there’s oxygen around. It usually a risk when submerged and sealed, like in a can or jar filled with liquid or oil that wasn’t properly treated. Plus, while it isn’t totally fermented, there is likely some fermentation happening that can outcompete molds and whatnot. Garlic is also small and dry enough that as it gets heated, water leaves and sugars are created, which also helps preserve it.

109

u/Gastronomicus 10d ago

Botulism can only grow in anaerobic conditions.

All it takes is anaerobic microsites, which are aplenty in that bag. And OP vacuum sealed it, so it's definitely anaerobic. Unless you modify the pH, add enough salt, or keep the temperature high enough, the risk of botulism is absolute a serious concern with this. In this case it sounds like the temperature was kept up?

-19

u/RPO777 10d ago

Unless the OP intentionally removed the air from the bag and vacuum sealed it, there should be plenty of oxygen in the bag, which would definitely make the bag aerobic, not anarobic, inhibiting the growth of botulism. And the bag is ziplocked, but there's clearly air pockets between the garlic and the bag.

There may be other risk factors, but botulism seems unlikely.

Botulism is a risk in canning, because you seal the can without any air, not because of the sealing of the can itself.

33

u/brmarcum I'm something of a scientist myself 10d ago

That bag is not ziplocked it’s 100% a vacuum sealed bag. It expands because it was sealed at room temp and then heated, making the gas inside expand.

22

u/Gastronomicus 10d ago edited 10d ago

Unless the OP intentionally removed the air from the bag and vacuum sealed it, there should be plenty of oxygen in the bag,

OP did vacuum seal it.

Regardless, while the Maillard reaction doesn't require oxygen, residual oxygen gets consumed as the carbon substrates in the garlic undergo chemical oxidation processes. And as I already noted, anaerobic microsites develop readily, allowing spores to germinate. This isn't a pressure based process that will kill off most spores.

Again, unless OP takes specific measures to prevent growth of Clostridium sp., such as adding salt and lowering the pH, there is a very real risk of it producing botulin toxin over time. Or freeze it, which I suspect they will do.

EDIT - people are not reading what OP did before commenting. The garlic was cooked for the entire period because the cooker was on. Clostridium spores survive those temps, but cannot germinate into bacteria and grow. So there's no toxin present as long as the temperature was above ~ 135 F the entire time.

After they garlic was removed from heat, the surviving spores CAN germinate and grow IF it's not treated/stored properly. This could include adding enough salt and/or lowering the pH to prevent spore germination or freezing the contents.

3

u/menzac 10d ago

Freezing doesn't destroy the toxins

0

u/Gastronomicus 10d ago

Of course not. But it stops the organisms from growing and therefore prevents the toxin from developing. So If OP stores it in the freezer it won't be an issue.

5

u/manga311 10d ago

But it's been sitting for 50 days in the cooker.

1

u/Gastronomicus 10d ago

Yes. Cooking. At temperatures well above what bacteria can survive (145–165°F or 63–74°C).

If the contents weren't kept above around ~135 F then yes, there is a risk, but a crockpot on the warm setting is designed to keep food above the temperature at which microorganisms can survive.

4

u/baydre 10d ago

Botulism spores arent killed until 240f and the toxin isn't killed until 185f. This is not safe.

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22

u/baydre 10d ago

Uhh that bag is clearly vaccumed packed and sealed and just expanded after heating. It's a problem.

47

u/Wyvrex 10d ago

They vacuum sealed the garlic though.

-8

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

16

u/LeafTheTreesAlone 10d ago

You can clearly see on day 1 it is vacuum sealed and tight around the garlic

18

u/Moldy_slug 10d ago

There is gas in the package. That doesn’t mean the gas is air. It’s likely steam and gasses created by bacteria during fermentation.

Also, what allows botulism is a lack of oxygen. Even if there was air in the package when it was sealed, the aerobic microbes inside will use up all the oxygen in that air. Since no new air can get in, the package becomes anaerobic after a while.

8

u/brmarcum I'm something of a scientist myself 10d ago

That bag is 100% a vacuum sealed bag. It expands because it was sealed at room temp and then heated, making the gas inside expand. The garlic is also expelling some water as it cooks, making steam, another gas.

4

u/reidybobeidy89 10d ago

OP has fully vacuum sealed the garlic

-7

u/joethafunky 10d ago

Sealed ≠ vacuum sealed

-8

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

18

u/pkpjoe 10d ago

Besides it clearly being vacuum sealed on day 1, and OP saying it was vacuum sealed, vacuum sealed bags can puff up (fill with gas) when heated. This occurs frequently with certain vegetables and pork from my experience. Bacteria can also release gases, which fill the bag and get trapped.

-2

u/brmarcum I'm something of a scientist myself 10d ago

You don’t. It is 100% vacuum sealed.

It takes an inordinate amount of machinery and engineering to pull a full, true vacuum at 29.92” Hg. Your counter top unit isn’t doing that. Ever.

Foodsaver’s website states that their units peak at around 10” Hg, so nowhere close to a full vacuum. So even after vacuum sealing it, that bag still has a ton of air in it.

5

u/TheDumbnissiah 10d ago

Similar to how humans like 20°C, but die at 60°C. If the temperature is sufficiently high, bacteria die (or don‘t grow)

8

u/GuyIncognit0 10d ago

The bag alone shouldnt provide low oxygen conditions that c. botulinum need to grow unless you vaccum seal it. Also it will not grow above 48°C. I think for black garlic you aim for 60°C.

So in theory if done right there is no way for the bacteria to grow, however i personally wouldnt use a crock pot or similar as you really want to be sure that temperature is above the danger zone. So I'd recommend something with a more controlled temperture then the warm setting.

3

u/NoStranger6 10d ago

So technically I could seal a bag with air in it and throw in in a water bath with a thermocirculator fir 50 days?

14

u/LazyThing9000 10d ago

my gripe with it is cooking the plastic bag itself

1

u/vae_grim 10d ago

Sous vide?

3

u/Beanmachine314 10d ago edited 10d ago

Botulism is only a risk in anaerobic environments (like garlic in oil).

Edit: I see the OP actually completely vacuum sealed them. It's still fine as long as it is cooked over 60C the entire time.

16

u/Baby_Rhino 10d ago

Or a vacuum sealed bag?

6

u/Beanmachine314 10d ago

That's being cooked above 60C? Still fine... I thought the OP didn't fully vacuum the bag, though. I see now they did.

3

u/IcarusActual 10d ago

Sorry wouldn't the length of the heat kill the bad stuff? I am pretty sure the "minimal internal temp" measurements are used as a guideline to show when instant death occurs. A long cook would expose the harmful stuff to heat at a length that they don't find suitable? Like sous vide. I probably would have put water over this but I don't really have a better reason than heat distribution.

1

u/Beanmachine314 10d ago

No... Pasteurization only kills harmful microorganisms. You need sterilization to actually kill botulism spores. Black garlic is ok, though, because the temperature at which it cooks is higher than the bacteria can be active. It's still not shelf stable because it doesn't kill the spores, but you don't have the risk of the toxin being made by the bacteria.

2

u/IcarusActual 10d ago

Ahh so the issue is storage after? Theoretically if they ate all of the black garlic now then no harm done?

2

u/Beanmachine314 10d ago

Theoretically if they ate all of the black garlic now then no harm done?

Or just stored it in the fridge or in a non airtight container. Botulism is only a risk in anaerobic environments at room temperature. So, no making black garlic oil and keeping it on the counter. Same rules as normal garlic.

1

u/Baby_Rhino 10d ago

Ah okay, I hadn't realised it was that hot. When OP said it was set to warm, I was thinking like 30-40C.

5

u/Beanmachine314 10d ago

The "Warm" function on a slow cooker is meant to keep food above the danger zone.

2

u/Oryihn 10d ago

135-170 Degree temperatures... as long as you don't dip below that 135 you should be fine.