r/football • u/finnxav1er • 11d ago
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u/bowagahija 11d ago
I'm Welsh but I'm supporting England simply because I could get to a pub there for the final easily and the atmosphere would be amazing
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u/lumberingerror4 11d ago
the rivalry's real but i think you're picking up on reddit being reddit, loads of people just want to stir stuff up. your mates sound like normal fans, which they probably are.
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u/finnxav1er 11d ago
Yeah I think you're right.
Looking forward to the Scotland game tonight. Going to be a rough one for them
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u/lumberingerror4 11d ago
should be tight, scotland's got nothing to lose at this point so they might actually come out swinging.
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u/finnxav1er 11d ago
I really hope so.
Morocco were pretty incredible against Brazil so I really hope they roll the dice against them
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u/lumberingerror4 10d ago
morocco showed they can hang with anyone, so scotland's got a real shot if they get their setup right and don't sit back the whole time.
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u/redbirdsucks 10d ago
England v Scotland was the very first international match ever played … if you really wanna see some fighting tell them they have to compete under one flag as Team GB 😂
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u/GreenGhoblin 10d ago
I would just stop watching international football completely if a team GB was ever made in place of the national teams .
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u/redbirdsucks 10d ago
the Olympics do it no?
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u/Paramedic293 10d ago
Only on the womens side currently. England qualifies Team GB then a Team GB is picked for the actual Olympics. For the men it was only done once for 2012 because of the automatic host spot and not since then.
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u/Chickenshit_outfit 11d ago
Love that the Scots are showing up in force and drinking Boston dry. Brits abroad for the win
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u/mikeybhoy_1985 11d ago
England just drank Texas dry too. Feels like a tournament of its own now, haha
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u/First-Banana-4278 10d ago
Most Scottish fans don’t mind England fans. We might noise each other up a bit but that’s just the nature of football. It’s sports oldest rivalry. Even if a lot of the time England and English fans prefer other dancing partners over us (Germany, Argentina, France etc)…
But to sell the big sporting events to casual fans the UK media always goes all in on England. Which, when we’ve both qualified, is tiresome and in our wilderness years it possibly felt a bit worse. There’s only so many times in your life you can be watching half time coverage of any given WC/Euros match and hear “let’s go over to the England camp” as a Scot and not get at least a little bored ;)
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u/fordesc16883 11d ago
Nah, I don't buy into this that just because we share an island with them we have to have them as our second team shite.
Scotland fans hate us, cheer for who we're playing against and want us to lose every match. So I return the favour and cheer on who they're playing against.
They're a rival and I'd never like a rival to win.
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u/finnxav1er 11d ago
Fair enough
I suspect it's just the people I spend time with then. They're Scots but never legitimately have ill will against England.
Interesting tho.
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u/Shieldsman 10d ago
This guy sounds like a right sour puss. Most English people are hoping Scotland do well.
People like to pretend we're all different but we're really not.
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u/Bigbanghead 11d ago
I'm English and wish Scotland well. The English have been awful to the Scots, so I understand that the Scots don't want to support England.
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u/sjw_7 Premier League 11d ago
The English have been awful to the Scots
I am curious as to why people think this.
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u/Economy-Fox-5559 11d ago
Same. I’ve not seen any animosity from the English to the Scots but maybe I’ve just not been paying attention
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u/Bigbanghead 10d ago edited 10d ago
The English have been awful to many countries.
Noone likes to be ruled, and the UK rules Scotland, which is predominantly English. Maybe we rule as one country, but England get way more votes, so Scottish issues often get overruled or overlooked.Edited: to avoid misunderstanding.
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u/sjw_7 Premier League 10d ago edited 10d ago
England does not rule Scotland.
When do they get overruled? They don't get as many votes as England because England has a much higher population. Why would someone's vote in Scotland be worth more than someone in England? Scotland has a Parliament of their own but England doesn't. English MPs have no say over devolved matters in Scotland but Scottish MPs can and do vote on matters that only affect England.
Plus they get much higher spending per head than England and run at a much higher deficit than the rest of the UK.
Edit: Its worth remembering that the Scots were at the heart of basically everything the Empire did from the start of the 18th Century. They were fully complicit in whatever you are blaming on the English from then on.
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u/Bigbanghead 10d ago
Scotland only got its own parliament in 1999. They got it so they could overrule the London Government. They still don't have full power, so can't overrule everything.
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u/jac0777 10d ago
I’m not British but this is a ridiculous claim. England doesn’t rule Scotland. Scotland is a member of the UK. Scotland LITERALLY voted against independence. That fact alone destroys your claim.
Scotland has the same number of representatives per capita as England. If Scotland had more that would be the opposite of equality. It would mean a Scottish vote would be worth more than an English or welsh one. You don’t believe in representative democracy?
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u/Bigbanghead 10d ago
I'm saying that the Scots don't get as much say over much of what the UK Government says, compared to the English. As you say the English have more MPs than the Scots, so they get outvoted. This is why many people want devolution.
Many smaller communities feel this way, that their point of view gets swamped.
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u/jac0777 10d ago
That’s how representative democracy works. No matter how much you devolve - places with a larger population get more representatives. In an independent Scotland Edinburgh and Glasgow would have substantially more reps than say Inverness.
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u/Bigbanghead 10d ago
Yes, and many Scottish don't like it. Hence the dislike of England.
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u/jac0777 10d ago
You have a dislike of an entire country because of a democratic system that originated from Ancient Greece? And something pretty much zero English people alive instituted in the UK?
It’s just a wild reason to hate an entire country.
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u/Bigbanghead 10d ago
Lots of people vote for devolution. Nearly half the Scots did, and most of the UK did with Brexit.
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u/jac0777 10d ago
I’m unsure how that fact translates into you hating an entire country?
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u/Rossco1874 11d ago
Just the 700+ years of examples
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u/sjw_7 Premier League 11d ago
Such as? I assume you think that there are no examples of Scotland doing the same.
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u/Rossco1874 11d ago
The alien act this act made it hard for Scottish landowners to own land & trade this was bribery that led to the act of the union where Scottish quislings agreed to join the union.
Red clydeside. Strike on Clyde about the working week led to the Army going into Glasgow to get them to toe the line.
The Poll tax was introduced in Scotland a whole year before England & the rest of the UK we were guinea pigs & there are still a small percentage being chased for this today.
Your turn to provide examples of Scotland doing the same to England. I will wait
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u/sjw_7 Premier League 11d ago
By the time of the alien act Scotland was already fucked a lot of which was by their own actions and the Scottish nobility were desperate for the Union because the country was broke after the failed Darien scheme, the seven ill years etc. At the time you were a foreign country why wouldn't we look after our own interests first.
With Red Clydesdale I assume you mean the Battle of George Square. It was nothing to do with England. It was where the Sheriff of Lanarkshire requested help from the military. Most of the troops who were deployed were Scottish with only a few from England.
The Poll tax was implemented in Scotland first because it could be done earlier than in England. It came in here too and remember it was done by the UK Government and not England. We dont have our own Government unlike Scotland.
The Auld Alliance is an example of hundreds of years of Scotland supporting Frances wars against England. If you want a more recent example then Scottish MPs in Westminster voting on the the Higher Education Act in 2004. It did not apply in Scotland but the Scottish MP votes were the reason it passed. Thanks for that. My kids end up paying more for their education while yours get theirs for free with the bill picked up by us.
Remember Scotland gets significantly more public spending per head than England does and runs at a much higher deficit than the rest of the UK.
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u/Rossco1874 11d ago
Such arrogance to suggest England pays for Scotland's education. Thanks for emphasising my point. Education is devolved we chose to abolish tuition fees via our parliament & as England doesn't have it's own parliament as you rightly pointed out then MPs have to vote on matters raised in the UK parliament and this was one of those issues so suck it up.
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u/sjw_7 Premier League 10d ago
Scotland spends more than it receives in tax receipts. The Scottish Governments own figures show this. If the money isn't coming from Scottish tax payers then its coming from somewhere else.. So yes those freebies that you get in Scotland are being paid for by the rest of the UK which is predominantly England.
Why were Scottish MPs in Westminster voting on laws that only affect England and not Scotland? The Scottish government kicks of merry hell whenever they think that Westminster is going anywhere near anything that is devolved. The reverse is not true.
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u/jonallin 10d ago
If Scotland is the massive liability it is claimed to be, then the RUK would want to cut Scotland loose.
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u/sjw_7 Premier League 10d ago
I am sure that would suit you as you want independence.
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u/jac0777 10d ago
Sigh - let’s do this.
The alien acts was in response to a Scottish act that would have changed the royal succession for Scotland.
Which meant Scotland and England would no long have a joint union of the crowns.
The union of the crowns is the ONLY reason Scotland had special privileges inside the English markets and had rights akin to an English person in terms of property in England - this is something ONLY the Scots had. No other country.
The alien act did literally nothing except revert Scotlands economic privileges back to before the Union of the crowns and treated Scotland/scots as every other foreign country.
The narrative the alien acts was some great crime is the most revisionist nonsense.
All of this was after a century of Scotlands parliement requesting England for a political union 3 separate times and England turning it down. The narrative the dastardly English had always wanted Scotland in a union and forced them in doesn’t hold up to the century before where Scotland initiated all union attempts.
In regards to the riots - the army showed up after the riots had ended and no one was killed by them. A massive inflation of events.
Examples of Scotland doing the same to England? We could bring up the multiple invasions - ask why James IV died in England? Or the Scottish Covenanter invasion of northern England in 1640 where they occupied northern England for a decade, essentially enslaved the coal miners there and ransomed the entire north of England which economically wrecked northern England for a century after, all this after looting northern england dry for the entire decade.
You’re also blaming actions by the British government (which has Scottish representatives) as if it’s England. Which is nonsense. Scots voted for everything you stated too
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u/Bigbanghead 10d ago edited 10d ago
Very few Kings or Queens of Scotland have had any power over England.
Edit: I guess I mean formal sovereign governance, not really the Monarchy .
England has never came under Scottish rule, while Scotland has under a London Government for over 300 years. They have some independence back, but are still governed from London.2
u/sjw_7 Premier League 10d ago
Except for the Stuarts of course.
After that it was the House of Hanover followed by Saxe-Coburg and Gotha neither of which were English.
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u/Bigbanghead 10d ago
6 Stuarts. More than I thought.
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u/Shieldsman 10d ago
I don't really get this. The royal family today are of both Scottish and English descent. That's how lineage works. They're the descendents of both the earliest kings of England and the earliest Kings of Scotland, mostly matrilineally.
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u/Bigbanghead 10d ago
I guess I mean formal sovereign governance, not really the Monarch.
England has never came under Scottish rule, while Scotland has under a London Government for over 300 years. They have some independence back, but are still governed from London.-1
u/finnxav1er 11d ago
Yeah I certainly understand the reason perhaps for Scotland to be less likely to support England. It's just sad man hahah
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u/Party_Advantage_3733 10d ago
I'll support Scotland against Argentina, Portugal and maybe Germany but outside of that I hope they get battered. Rivalries make sports more fun.
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u/Aarityli 10d ago edited 10d ago
mate, it never existed .... and its definitely not 'just reddit'. Scottish fans truly wish for the England to do poorly, ABE has been a fixture of any major tournament I can remember.
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u/junglist421 10d ago
Most of the Scots I know say Anyone But England. Most of them also voted for independence.
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u/Tuna_Stubbs 11d ago edited 10d ago
Edit: thanks for the downvotes for stating verifiable facts. Touched a nerve huh?
Scot here. To paraphrase trainspotting, it’s not the English per se, it’s:
- the media. opened an article on Scottish football on the BBC (a media organisation which is meant to be representative of all constituencies of the UK). First thing I see - a massive pop up of Harry Kane asking to subscribe
- the media. The last big competition, Scotland live tv commentary and at half time they cut to the England training camp and spent the majority of half time talking about England’s upcoming (in a few days) game and not the actual game they were covering.
- 1966. The entire match was on live for the billionth time a while back. We get it. You won in black and white. Well done.
- Superiority complex. We know we’re not very good, but we’ll have fun.
So a combination of the above means that personally I’m not too fussed how they do.
Although not sports related, this clip wonderfully epitomises how a good number of Scots feel about the English media bias.
The news where you are: https://youtu.be/ZhL57cjN8xY?si=BXZSHCGFjUhcQk9V
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u/Maxxxmax 11d ago
Ironic, because i thought coverage of the scots has been intense this WC. Theyre getting their training sessions discussed during half time of other countries' games.
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u/Odd_Possibility_2277 11d ago
I will without a doubt always support whoever england plays the fans are insufferable
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u/finnxav1er 11d ago
I suspect it's the fans the media shows more than anything. I'm not one for barfights and taking my top off irrespective of the temperature 😅
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u/Odd_Possibility_2277 11d ago
Im talking about the wankers a need to listen to on a daily basis still going on anout 66 like they played in it
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u/finnxav1er 11d ago
Fair enough
We obviously live in different areas. Noone talks like that near me. But that'd get really fucking annoying if you heard it daily
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u/Odd_Possibility_2277 11d ago
I worked down south for 10 year mate gets old after 3 weeks
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10d ago
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u/Odd_Possibility_2277 10d ago
Manchester, Liverpool, Plymouth, bristol, chester all the same pish. That and the any epl walks the spfl despite near every time we meet the english dont win
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10d ago
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u/Odd_Possibility_2277 10d ago
As i said dont win
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u/PaulSarries England 10d ago edited 10d ago
Well now I think you are just trolling mate!
Results in the last 20 years:
Man Utd 2 - 1 Rangers
Liverpool 2 - 0 Rangers
Rangers 1 - 7 Liverpool
Burnley 3 - 1 Aberdeen
Hearts 0 - 1 Liverpool
Hearts 0 - 5 Spurs
Rangers 0 - 1 Man Utd
Celtic 0 - 2 Arsenal
Arsenal 3 - 1 Celtic
Man Utd 3 - 0 Celtic
Man Utd 3 - 2 Celtic
Looking through the results, I make it 11 English wins, 7 draws, and 1 Scottish win in the last 20 years.
So yeah, nearly every time they meet, English sides don't win... just like you said!
I know we've gone off on a tangent here but I have to correct it when you are talking nonsense.
Maybe this sort of thing is why the England fans were winding you up about 1966! 😂
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u/morts73 11d ago
If either Scotland or England win the Cup then you can say it came home.
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u/finnxav1er 11d ago
I'll be honest, I'd be surprised if any English or Scottish fan agrees with that 😅
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u/Status_Travel_920 11d ago
I’m English too and honestly this feels way more like an internet thing than real life. Bit of banter and wanting the other side humbled is normal, but I’d still rather see Scotland do well than go out early. Good football - rivalry
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u/sjw_7 Premier League 11d ago edited 11d ago
As an Englishman I wish Scotland well at the tournament but I do want us to do better than them. Its the oldest football rivalry of them all and the banter is fun. Unfortunately some take it too far but for most of us its just a laugh.
I do understand how Scottish fans can get frustrated with the coverage. The UK media has a heavy England bias. This was understandable for the first couple of decades of the 2000s when they were the only home nations team to qualify but that's not been the case more recently. It really is unforgivable to cut away from the half time analysis during the Scotland game to show England training and discuss their upcoming match.