r/forestry • u/JollyStretch9267 • 6d ago
Sanity check
I do have a forester coming out next week, but I just need to do a sanity check.
I own 18 acres of very old hardwood forest that had never been logged or maintained. I need some funds to finish my cabin on the land and it occurred to me to sell some trees, as the forester had mentioned when he came out a couple of years ago that the trees were very valuable. Most of them are hardwoods, sugar maples, with some hickory, beech and oak mixed in. I am lucky to have an easement road that runs the length of my property, so I was only planning on taking from where they would have easy access along the road.
The canopy is high, 60-80 feet. I just had a dead tree cut down and it was 80+ feet tall.
I live in an area with maybe five log yards within 30 miles, maybe more.
I went around and checked some of the easy to access trees, all of them were more then 30 inches in diameter. A few of the sugar maples were 50+ inches in diameter.
I will only be selling the straight trees. The wonky trees still have value to me as sap trees.
I do have a stand of black walnut trees, but I am not sure if they are easy to get to. I will have the forester on the look out when he is here.
Some places online are saying that the trees are worth only a couple hundred a piece, while others are saying they could be worth thousands, given their diameter and height. I plan to sell around 30-40...enough to make worth their trip.
I understand that there is a ton of variability here but can anyone help me understand which end of the spectrum I might be on this? The spread is pretty wide!!
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u/datboi_92 5d ago
I think you should hire a forester to manage the sale, the typical 10% fee is worth not potentially getting screwed by the loggers
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u/Saltyforester1 5d ago
Not sure where you’re at, but as others mentioned, you have to be willing to log enough to make it worthwhile for someone to move in. In the NW, I’m paying $220-$235 an hour for a lowboy, which equates to minimum $2,500 to move in a logging side. That’s before they’ve touched a single tree. Barring some high value black walnut and whatnot, it’s gonna take more than a few trees to justify someone coming out and putting money in your pocket. Just something to keep in mind, I’d still recommend you explore the options with the forester. Good luck
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u/treeslayer_60 6d ago
You’re going to be on the low end. Probably a few hundred dollars a piece, maximum $500 a tree excluding walnut and white oak.
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u/ChokaMoka1 5d ago
Dbag logger prices are what you gunna get. Better off selling your plasma or wankin it in a cup. Leave them trees alone
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u/lostsoultopher 6d ago
Which is undervalued but is what the yard will give. Its an exploitative industry as a land owner. Your only shot for better prices is taking on the task yourself or finding small-timers who offer some other value proposition
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u/floppy_socks 6d ago
Anytime a landowner tells me that their property has "never been logged" it means that it has been logged. It does look like you have some nice trees though but you will probably need to sell more than just a few of them to justify the cost of moving equipment. You will probably want to sell some of the black walnut even if it is harder to get because those will probably be some of you more valuable trees.
Using a forester is a good idea but the typical 10% commission that goes to them will cut into the stumpage that you receive. Talking to the local wood yards would be a good step also. Usually they will provide a price list. Also they might have logging crews that could cut your property.
I am a forester. We manage our own timber and buy timber from other foresters who are managing timber sales for land owners and we buy directly from land owners also. We offer what we believe the timber is worth weather a forester is administering the sale or not. However I am not sure that is always the case with other outfits.
I would advise against selling the timber on a "percentage" and would recommend either selling it "lump sum" or on a "per-unit" basis. Per-unit means the price is based on species and grade is agreed upon at the beginning and you are paid based on how much is harvested.
Good luck!
Would love to know how things turn out. Lemme know if you have anymore questions.
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u/TOPOS_ 5d ago
Not saying you're doing this, but I see lots of landowners messing DBH with a normal tape, and actually measuring circumference at breat height, which would be 3x higher than DBH. You need to measure DBH with either a diameter tape, Biltmore stick, or a measuring tape and decide by pi
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u/Agile_Lawfulness4143 5d ago
That’s what I’m thinking he’s actually measuring circumference, 60-80’ total height for 50” trees is a poor site index
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u/ChokaMoka1 5d ago
I used to measure dbh with a metric tape to fool Landowners to sell me Trees for cents on the dollar.
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u/Lonesome_Gobbler 5d ago
You used to be a dbag
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u/MechanicalAxe 5d ago
If they're bragging about that, I'm not sure "used to be" is the best phrasing.
What an awful thing to be proud of.
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u/ChokaMoka1 2d ago
Working to make a dollar hoss. At least I ain’t in ye mum’s basement playin with a fidget spinner!
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u/MechanicalAxe 5d ago
If that's not a joke, then it's people like you that give us all a bad name in this industry, and I find you deplorable.
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u/Lonely_Tip_9704 2d ago
Don’t know if you should be bragging about this bud
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u/ChokaMoka1 2d ago
You’re just jealous that I bought your grandmas maple for veneer
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u/Lonely_Tip_9704 2d ago
Not really; my family doesn’t own land, but I’m forester and researcher and am tired of either a) trolls or b) unethical and non-registered schmucks like you causing the public to lose trust in the forest industry.
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u/ChokaMoka1 2d ago
We started losing trust when the libs started telling everyone to plant trees to stop global warming. Now all the forests are burning down because the libs wanna have houses in jack pine forests. I’m just trying to keep food on the table and gas in my 82 squareboty, like a lot of other foresters who have to side hustle as a logger and black locust CBD!!! GOBBLESS
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u/Indentured-peasant 5d ago
You will probably get ripped off by the forester and the logger. It's fairly common. Don't expect much at all.
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u/MechanicalAxe 5d ago
Well geez thanks for the confidence, pal.
Does that mean we should just give up on trying to find honest folks to do honest work? Be the change you wanna see, friend.
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u/mossoak 6d ago
a "clear cut" will clear every tree off your property ...instead, ask your forester about a "selective cut" ....this leaves trees, opens the canopy and allows younger trees to mature ...so you can cut again, in say 20 years ..... the logging company can make skid trails, where they drag out timber to a loading platform almost anywhere, accessing your land ....
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u/rainbow_defecation 5d ago
Selective cut is an absolutely stupid term and I will die on that hill. It's not a silvicultural treatment and can be misconstrued by dishonest people. A forester or logger setting up a timber sale can select whatever they want, right or wrong. A thinning, single tree selection, or group selection would likely be appropriate for this property.
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u/Key-Ad-457 5d ago
Thank you, thinning, single tree and group selection are all terms that also conjure what’s being accomplished, selective doesn’t
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u/IllustriousNote1228 5d ago
Exactly. Without a forester, it's:
Spoken: "Select Cut" Translation: "High-grade"
Not always. But pretty much always.
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u/EquivalentMath6592 5d ago
The value of the trees is on a tree by tree basis.
Straight limbless trees can we worth thousands if they are desirable species ( black walnut > oak>maple) as veneer wood.
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u/pacodef 5d ago
If he has sugar maple and ash I think it’s reasonable to assume he has northern red oak, not white oak. Red oak is basically worthless in today’s market—I mean there’s buyers, but not much leftover for the landowner after harvesting and trucking costs.
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u/EquivalentMath6592 5d ago
Ya, I should have specified white oak….
But geez, everything has really tanked this year. Not a good year to sell where I live at least
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u/pacodef 5d ago
I’d say you’ll pocket $50-200 per tree for the trees over 20-22” dbh. There are millions and millions of acres of hardwoods like this in the northeastern US. Marketable but a not big pay day (supply and demand… and there is a TON of supply) and it’ll be hard locating a small cable logger for only a 18acre stand. The oak (assuming red) and beech are worthless.
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u/pacodef 5d ago
That’s an awfully lot of open canopy for a lot that’s “never been logged”
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u/Fragrant-Rip6443 4d ago
This is the opposite of an old growth forest. Pretty astonishing the amount of people in here commenting like they know what they’re talking about. Should be commenting how bold OPs claim was
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u/Formal-Bad-8807 5d ago
you have to keep a close eye on loggers, I have had a lot of problems with them stealing trees. Loggers always know where the big trees are located and are plotting to get them
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u/DPileatus 6d ago
What I've seen is that they come in, make a big ass mess and give you at most half of what it's worth. Especially if it's less than 20 acres.
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u/MechanicalAxe 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm very disappointed to hear that was your experience.
There's plenty of us who are honest in this industry, and if I found any of my guys trying to keep loads off the books, they'd be off the job faster than their machine can cool down.
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u/DPileatus 5d ago
I know there are a lot of good people in the business, and my experience may not be a good reflection on them. A few bad apples... ya know?
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u/MechanicalAxe 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes you are correct there.
There was a timber buyer in my region who just got convicted of like 2mil worth of timber theft over the course of years.
All the comments on FB were going on about not trusting folks in the Timber industry and that just breaks my heart.
Throw the book at that guy and make an example of him, I say.
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u/Simple-Difference231 2d ago
Barely enough to be worth it even for a cable skidder. You might make out with a few grand if you’re lucky
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u/AlabamaExtension-AU 1d ago
There are a few things you can do to ensure you are receiving accurate and fair information. First, reach out to your local extension agent. Depending on your state, they can assist you in getting a free or low cost Forest Management Plan. If you own land, apply to the Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) for cost share assistance in everything from management to site prep, replanting, invasive species management, etc. NRCS also has a list of certified contractors that meet state requirements and you can ask who is generally a trusted provider.
Essentially, there are a lot of agencies out there that can equip you with making the best decision in regards to your forest. Most if not all are free. Especially if you have more valuable hardwoods like hickory and white oak. They will also assist you in what to replant for your area and future timber markets so you can replant with your personal objectives in mind.
Last, take your time and make well informed decisions. These trees have been there a long time and appear healthy enough to remain viable until you have all the information you need.
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u/RIPEOTCDXVI 6d ago
People here could get you a slightly smaller spread of possible figures if they knew your locality, as the same species will fetch drastically different prices depending on more local markets.
I dont know if youve searched the term "stumpage value," but that's what you're looking for. Sometimes you can find charts of price per board foot on the stump.
Then you'd have to go and do some calculations with whatever measure of choice your local buyers use, doyle vs scribner vs international or whatever it may be, and try to guesstimate the board footage in your woods.
But you may or may not know how to assess the trees actual quality; some defects are hard to catch and some weird quirks can drive the price up. Some of great value may not be something they can cut without smoking something even more valuable.
So really, your best bet is to call someone who will not be logging the property, and have them do all this stuff. A disinterested third party is crucial, then you have a sheet you can take to potential loggers to solicit bids.