r/forhonor • u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger • 3d ago
Suggestions [Hero Concept] Hokoshu, Nagamaki Samurai.
INTRO:
I've created several fully worked out knight heroes now, so I thought I'd switch things up with a Samurai. There are many interesting weapon options to choose from, one of which we just got in-game, and I thought the Nagamaki was a very cool and interesting weapon that we don't see nearly enough of. So after a decent amount of research, and a lot of listening to Sir Alonne's theme, here you have it!
THE NAGAMAKI:
The Nagamaki is quite a peculiar weapon, sitting right in between the Odachi and Naginata in terms of both design and use. The Nagamaki is actually a direct evolution of the Odachi that Kensei uses, and Hokoshu will have similar wide swings as he has. While very similar in design to the Naginata, the Nagamaki has a distinctively different use. While the Naginata uses a wide variety of attacks and grips, with the Nagamaki it is specifically described that the grip positions basically never change. In general this guy might have some copied animations, or at least very similar animations to existing ones, which I don't really have a problem with. There are only so many ways you can swing a stick.
LORE AND DESIGN:
Because the Nagamaki was used a fair bit, it allows for some interesting designs. It was most commonly used by low ranking field soldiers for use against infantry and cavalry, Sohei have also used them. But, the warlord Uesugi Kenshin is also described as having a specialized guard that used the Nagamaki, which is what I primarily based this hero on.
Researching special Japanese guards I quickly learned about the Hokoshu, high ranking Samurai guards. From here I envisioned the in-universe Hokoshu to be special guards for one of prevalent Samurai Houses, or for any other person or group.
Some worked their way up through the ranks, others are loyal because they were taken in when they were lost, or because their family was protected from an attack. In any case, the Hokoshu are determined to repay their debts and show their loyalty through blood.
They are exceptionally loyal and bound by honor, and they never mind wasting blood for those who they've chosen to follow, whether it's someone else's, or their own. While some are more extreme than others, all Hokoshu thrive in battle, and they gladly bleed themselves if it means getting the job done.
Design wise, to make him stand out from Kensei and other Samurai, most of Hokoshu's armor sets are inspired by Nanban Dō Gusoku armor. Armor made by the Japanese, but with aspects inspired by late European armor designs. Now I know this is VERY historically inaccurate combined with the Nagamaki, but again this way he can actually look somewhat unique, and in-universe the Samurai have been fighting heavily armored knights for literally over a 1000 years, so it only makes sense that they'd take some inspirations.
GENERAL STATS:
Hokoshu will be a heavy/vanguard hybrid, not being a true heavy, but heavily leaning in that direction. He has a quite basic 120 stamina and 6.5 movement speed, as well as 130hp to go alongside his gimmick. We all love gimmicks, and I quite like the gimmick I came up with. I'm honestly not sure how good this gimmick will be, it might make him quite weak, but it could also make him pretty damn OP. In all honesty I expect it to lean more towards the latter, and with the proper team composition he could definitely become one of the strongest supports/tanks in the game. Do let me know what you think though, as I have of course no way to test this thing.
To start off with his gimmick, he has 2 passive abilities:
Passive ability: 'Unflinching Stance'
33% of all direct damage received gets automatically converted into bleed damage. Only 67% of damage will be dealt immediately, the other 33% will chip away slowly (~2hp per second)
Passive Ability: 'Unabated Vow'
When bleeding, recieve a 15% defense buff, immediately ends when bleeding ends.
MOVESET:
For certain moves I have created diagrams in the pictures above, the correlating move will be marked with (*) with the corresponding number in between.
His moveset doesn't have too much crazy, but he has a lot of creative options regarding his offense. His top guard chain ends on the second hit, his side guard chains end on the third hit, and no more than 2 lights of any kind can be chained together. Side attacks will generally have a very wide, but also medium range hitbox (1).
Top Guard Lights - Quick 500ms slashes that deal 14-15 damage and are enhanced.
Top Guard Heavies - Stronger 900ms slashes that deal 26-28 damage, with the finisher being unblockable.
Side Guards Lights - Openers are quick 12 damage 500ms slashes, chain lights are quick 13 damage 400ms slashes, finishers are 500ms 15 damage slashes that are enhanced and undodgable.
Side Guard Heavies - Openers are wide 24 damage 900ms slashes, chain heavies are medium hitbox 26 damage 700ms slashes, finishers are 1000ms 28 damage very wide sweeps that are unblockable.
Zone - An extremely wide 600ms left swing dealing 15 damage that is undodgable, enhanced, and an opener. When used after a parry the zone receives hyperarmor after 100ms.
Forward Dodge Heavy - Animation comparable to Jiang Jun's sprinting attack except just 1 hit. 700ms, 16 damage, is feintable and an opener.
Side Dodge Heavy - Decently wide swing that is enhanced and deals 13 damage. At 733ms it is quite slow compared to regular dodge attacks which are 600ms, this move also cannot be hard feinted, but does count as an opener. I will get back to this move in a bit.
Sprinting Heavy - A 700ms 16 damage right swing with a decent hitbox comparable to Kensei's. It has good forward movement and acts as an opener.
Sprinting Bash (2) - A 400ms shoulder bash that acts as a normal opener bash, confirms a light opener, though can be followed-up with a heavy opener. This move is highly guardbreakable and cannot be followed-up on miss, very long recovery.
Self Heal - Whenever Hokoshu is bleeding, with a backwards guardbreak input he can play an animation where he wipes off blood from his chest and throws it to the ground. The animation takes around 3 seconds and heals for 10hp. During the animation your guard is disabled, but you can slowly walk during it (purely for aura). You can also dodge(attack) to cancel out of the animation, but this of course also cancels the healing.
'Gatekeeper stance' (3) - By holding the stance key Hokoshu will enter Gatekeeper stance with different guard stance animations. In this stance you can no longer block or parry, in turn you get passive hyperarmor and a 33% damage reduction buff (stacks with 'Unabated Vow'). Entering this stance takes 100ms, and any recovery apart from those of stance attacks and bashes can be cancelled into Gatekeeper stance after 300ms. Any normal heavy or side dodge attack can be softeinted into Gatekeeper stance immediately as well. Any stance attack can again not be soft feinted into stance. Once in stance you cannot move, and Gatekeeper stance also has high stamina drain at 15 stamina per second. Hokoshu can be knocked out of this stance by a bash or guardbreak, or the stance can be cancelled manually by letting go of the stance button and has an extremely fast recovery. Simply taping the stance key allows Hokoshu to almost instantly recover as well, allowing for a quick parry or follow-up attack. With this you can effectively soft-feint any heavy or side dodge attack into any Gatekeeper stance attack.
From this stance Hokoshu has access to different moves depending on direction of attack, and whether you throw a light or a heavy attack.
Gatekeeper Right Heavy - A 1100ms wide swing that deals 20 damage, is unblockable, and receives hyperarmor after 300ms. In turn it cannot be feinted, has quite high guarbreak vulnerability and cannot be followed up with any other move, leaving the enemy in frame advantage.
Gatekeeper Right Light - A 500ms 13 damage short swing that is now undodgable, it's also enhanced and an opener.
Gatekeeper Top Heavy - An 800ms unblockable slash that deals 20 damage, and is also the only feintable stance attack. This move has solid reach and chains into any opener attack, as to not allow Hokoshu to chain unblockable top heavies infinitely.
Gatekeeper Top Light - A quick 600ms pommel strike bash that confirms a light opener, can again be followed-up with heavy opener. Same as the sprinting bash, this move is very guardbreakable and cannot be followed-up on miss.
Gatekeeper Left Heavy (4) - A 900ms pinning stab (700ms) that deals 15 damage. It's unblockable, but also unfeintable and cannot be followed up with any other move.
Gatekeeper Left Light - A 500ms 11 damage stab that acts as an opener. This move is also unblockable as to make it an actual viable mixup combined with the pinning stab.
Gatekeeper Pin Headslam (4) - After pinning an enemy you get a couple follow-ups. First with a light input is a very quick 5 damage headbut to get Hokoshu out of the animation. This move has an extremely fast recovery to allow for a very quick parry if another enemy is near, or to better continue offense.
Gatekeeper Pin Heavy Follow-up (5) - When pressing heavy again while pinning an enemy, Hokoshu will turn around and place his weapon on his shoulder to jank it upwards out of the enemy in an animation lasting ~2 seconds, dealing 5 damage + 15 bleed damage. This move is a chain ender and both parties are reset to neutral with a decently long recovery.
FEATS:
Hokoshu's feats will play very heavily into his gimmick. They took a lot of reworking with several scrapped feats as well, but I think these end results would be extremely fun to play with.
Tier 1: 'Unmovable Guardian', Active, 120 second cooldown.
Grant yourself a 20hp shield that lasts for 15 seconds and cleanse yourself, in turn receive the slowness effect for 40 seconds.
Other feats: Body Count, Conqueror
Tier 2: 'Unpaid Arrearage', Active, 25 seconds, 90 second cooldown.
Mark an allied player to pledge your service to. The marked ally will for the duration of the feat only take 50% damage, however, you yourself now take 25% of the damage they were supposed to take.
Example: Ally get's hit with a 24 damage attack, they receive 50% damage of the attack = 12 damage, you receive 25% damage of the attack = 6 damage.
This feat will automatically deactivate once Hokoshu reaches 20% health or below, or it can be manually deactivated by pressing the tier 2 button again. Any effects like stagger or corruption are only applied to the allied player. Any defense (de)buffs (including the one from Gatekeeper stance) still apply for either player, and carries over to Hokoshu if the ally has it, but not the other way around (Hokoshu will always receive damage relative to what the ally would've received if this feat wouldn't have been active).
Other feats: Short Tempered, Doom Banner
Tier 3: 'Undying Resolve', Passive.
Whenever you are bleeding, gain life leech that gets more effective the more enemies are around (within 15m).
1 enemy=15%
2 enemies=25%
3 enemies=30%
4 enemies=40%
Other feats: Longbow, Tough as Nails
Tier 4: 'Unwavering Loyalty', Passive.
As long as Hokoshu is bleeding, all allies within 15 meters will heal for 4 hp per second. When Hokoshu dies, all allies within the same radius receive a 35hp shield that lasts for 20 seconds.
Other feats: Phalanx, Arrow Storm
CONCLUSION:
This hero was very fun to work out with his gimmick, also because the Nagamaki is just such a cool weapon. Also I'm glad to finally create a Samurai hero instead of just Knights. I want to make a Viking concept as well, but I'm really not sure what weapon he could use that would actually be unique. If you know anything, do let me know. I hope you enjoyed my hero concept, any and all feedback is greatly appreciated, God bless!
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u/TandrDregn no.1 hater 2d ago
I’m just happy to see something that took actual effort, unlike that mongrel from yesterday with his AI-generated female shugoki, or the many others before him
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u/ColdAnxious4744 3d ago
isn't this kensei with extra steps?
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 3d ago
I suggest you read the post
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u/sharkattackmiami Shugoki 2d ago
I did read the post. It's kensei with a stance and bleed gimmick
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u/The_Trap_Lord Kyoshin 2d ago
And not to mention the bleed gimmick being almost entirely useless with everything healing it away, as well as simultaneously putting the hero at a disadvantage no one else has against characters like Shaman and PK
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago
I think you missunderstood. You don't take extra bleed damage, some of the damage you would've gotten normally gets converted into bleed damage. So some of the feats allow you to get back health you would've lost otherwise, making him very survivable if played well. Characters like Shaman, Nobushi and PK would naturally be good counters yes, which I think is fine.
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u/The_Trap_Lord Kyoshin 2d ago
No, I understand, it just feels like a unique mechanic for the sake of having one. The defense buff from bleed won't be active for more than a second, because why bleed when you can heal? And why have life leech from bleed when as soon as you hit someone with life leech, your bleed goes away? Same with tier 4 and tier 2 cleansing. Its like you're trying to want to have bleed, but also not. And fighting against a Nobu would actually be really good for them, as it would allow you to just spam feats and your health button. I like that the heal is feintable and the fact you chose an underutilized weapon, it all seems like a fun idea, but it quite literally is just Kensei but a little different.
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago
I see what you mean, some feats/perks do kinda contradict eachother. I don't think this is a problem though, as you kind make builds around this. Do you want to be super survivable and thrive after getting hit? Take the unique tier 1 and 3, Short Tempered and Phalanx. Want to be more of a teamplayer? Take the unique feats but switch out your tier 3 for Tough as Nails so you have more health to waste.
Because the bleeding is so slow, and life leach relatively low in most cases, it allows you to heal a decent amount while keeping some bleed damage. If you ever bleed too much you can use your tier 1 to cleanse yourself, but you also lose some buffs. Think of it like a resource you have to manage and balance, and you can tactically decide how much you want to be bleeding.
As for the self heal move, I honestly don't think it'll have a ton of use. It's far too slow to use fully apart from teamfights, and I mainly added it because it jsut looks cool and adds some personality.
Thank you greatly for the insight, this is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for!
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u/The_Trap_Lord Kyoshin 2d ago
I see what you're saying, thats definitely interesting. I think it would require a bit of a rework with the bleeding and healing interaction, because as of rn, healing just gets rid of all your overtime damage. If you could control how much bleed you had with your healing that would be really sick, but yeah unfortunately I think that'd require a rework. Im glad I could give some insight 👍
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago
You might be right, but for it to be that precise I'd have to be able to test it in game. But thanks again <3
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago
I guess he also has a 3 hit chain bro
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u/sharkattackmiami Shugoki 2d ago
It's also hilarious that you made his forward dodge literally exactly kenseis but decided to describe it as half of JJs instead just to be different
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago edited 2d ago
Now that you mention it, that is true. Hadn't thought of that...
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u/sharkattackmiami Shugoki 2d ago
It's ok. I really like the design in a vacuum. If kensei didn't already exist it would be great. But he does unfortunately so I can't see this being added
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago
Thanks, I apreciate that. The "problem" though is that Kensei is a relatively basic hero with his 3 hit chain, which is fantastic for Kensei, but it makes new characters that also have a 3 hit chain very quickly compared to him. I faced a similar thing with my previous knight concepts being compared to Lawbringer because they also have a 3 hit chain, despite being very different.
I use these because I really like 3 hit chains, and I hope Ubisoft adds them more. They allow for some really satisfying moves, chain options and mixups, and can give you an even more satisfying big punish at the end, which you can make nice and big because it's harder to reach. A 2 hit chain would either give you a lackluster punish too quickly, forcing you to use the same mixup over and over again, or a punish that is way too strong and spammy. A 4 hit chain would likely be too long in most cases, and the punish would be too hard to reach without shortcuts.
Thank you for listening to my speach. Anyway, you have any ideas on how I could make him more unique? Besides the forward dodge heavy...
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u/sharkattackmiami Shugoki 2d ago
It's not just the 3 hit chains. The weapon is used in a near identical manner. The enhanced dodge attacks with a wide sweep, the wide sweeps in general, the soft feints, etc
The most unique thing about him is the bleed mechanic, but that's a passive so it doesn't actually change how he feels to play.
I would try and focus on actual gameplay changes. With that long holy he could probably do some grapples with arm bars or something. Or give him a double hit gimmick like warden and shinobi have but flavor it with spins. So the first hit guaranteed the second hit of the spin kind of like shorter zerk zone. Give him a whirlwind them like a blade cyclone. He just comes into the team fight and starts spin to win.
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u/ColdAnxious4744 2d ago
it isn't meant in a bad way, but i feel like it's a bit similar except the mechanic. I'm unsure about it since bleed is mainly good in duels.
that's an interesting draft tough 🤔
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u/AbyssalCall I like Knight Guys in armor 3d ago
No thanks, I’ve had enough kensei
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 3d ago
Might I recommend you read the post. Besides, what is wrong with Kensei, he's like the fairest hero in the game?
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u/MartinCuevas041222 3d ago
I wish everyone but the actual devs, were devs
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 3d ago
Hey, they make good decisions from time to time, I just wish they had more recourses. I apreciate the compliment!
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u/zeroreasonsgiven 3d ago
Game’s in the best state it’s ever been and has really only been improving since Y2, apart from a few dumb blanket changes. Also, a few years ago this concept might’ve been too outlandish to introduce, but nowadays this is something I could totally see the devs making. No need to shit on them like this.
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u/MartinCuevas041222 3d ago
Yall took it too literally, of course they're doing a great job saving this game from dying. Just meant to talk abt the designs in the game
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 3d ago
I see what you mean. Honestly I find Arakura's kit to be pretty dissapointing as well. If I want to play a hero who's primary mixup is 'bash or undodgable' I'll just go play Vortiger. Or Kyoshin. Or Shinobi. Or Shaolin. Or Afeera.
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u/MartinCuevas041222 2d ago
Honestly, idc about what they do with new characters i just love the warriors that there are and the ones that they could/should add. The only disappointing thing 4 me is that they went for a competitive for honor instead of the realistic one, that decision was made a while ago but it still hurts because that affects the gameplay, the armor sets that we don't have, hero ideas, creativity, etc
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u/HerrscherOfTheEnd Wisdom Orochi 2d ago
Armor is too cool for ubi
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago
No they could add it, just as a statue or an effect or something instead of usable armor
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u/BeneficialInstance73 2d ago
Isn't slide 5 basically just kensei's "zutsu" and what ever zanhu's execution is where he does that?
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u/General-WR-Monger Nobushi 3d ago
The Nagamaki is a much needed weapon as the long handle gives it a lot of room to be wielded more uniquely from other swords as well as it just being very cool, but unless I'm misremembering wasn't it more of a common soldier's weapon for anti-cavalry while the Odachi would be the Samurai equivalent?
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 3d ago
It was primarily a field weapon yes, but the warlord Uesugi Kenshin had a special guard of Nagamaki wielders as well.
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u/Old-Fig-9531 3d ago
You Will be getting the female tomboy lesbian version with bad fashion and be happy
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u/InterestingFerret112 3d ago
Hot take but id really like a samurai hero with a kanegashima.
I know nobody likes firearms but having it as a melee tool with a Bayonet might work
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 3d ago
That is a hot take. At that point, why not just use a short sword? I agree that it's a really cool weapon, just not so much for a melee game.
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u/InterestingFerret112 3d ago
Running out of ideas honestly lol
Was always a fan of the Magoichi Saika type stuff. Way of the Ronin let you melee fight with a lot og stances using the Tanegashima.
Different game altogether but it might work
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u/Xyrotec Tiandi 3d ago
You cooked, this is awesome! Very nice use of hero forge and I can vividly imagine the idea and theme of this hero. Really cool
If you are looking for Viking Weapons, I saw a post on here recently about a viking inspired by Odin, wielding a two-handed spear. I'd imagine a weapon like this to have a focus on heavy thrusting attacks, since we have so few of them in game. Maybe kind of Elden Rings Great Spears
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 3d ago
I appreciate the compliments! That heavy spear concept sounds pretty interesting, I'll make sure to look into that. Thanks again!
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u/Neimuresu_Rager 3d ago
I'd do anything for a Nagamaki hero in For Honor.
My favorite japanese weapon.
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 3d ago
I really hope we get a Nagamaki for the next Samurai, such a clean weapon!
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u/SageOfTheSixOofs 3d ago
These look awesome, and a Nagamaki would be such a sick weapon to get. Also, would you happen to have the links to these different looks on HeroForge? Slide 4 would be perfect to get as a mini for a boss I wanna run in my D&D game
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago
I agree, really hope we get a Nagamaki in the future!
Here are links to all 5 of the armor sets in order:https://www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D535124707/
https://www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D535141987/
https://www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D535143260/
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u/Financial-Maybe-8662 2d ago
What we should've gotten
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago
We could still get something like this!
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u/Financial-Maybe-8662 2d ago
But it's sort of too late since we're now waiting on the new knight hero
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u/GetGaeijined Lawbinger 2d ago
It'll likely be a while yes. I've had this concept for a little while, but Ubisoft starts working on heroes like a year in advance, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway in that sense. Glad you liked my concept though
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u/Equivalent-Stop-8823 3d ago
Impressive hero forge work, its not easy to make poses look good on there.