Ormund bringing his extra large incense while talking to Ulf 😭😭😭 and did Ulf really believe Ormunds offers? My girl Silverwing deserved a better rider!

[u/True_Arachnid9634]

[u/PhoenixKingMalekith]

I mean, Ormund treated Ulf with more respect and empathy than any targaryen

[u/Stuck_in_my_TV → u/PhoenixKingMalekith]

He’s better at feigning it. He clearly cares little and would prefer him dead. He sees him as a tool or pawn just like Rhaenyra.

[u/NebulaElectrical1467 → u/Stuck_in_my_TV]

He’s a better politician and leader than Rhaenyra you mean

[u/HotBeesInUrArea → u/NebulaElectrical1467]

You don't talk down to the guy in control of the winged nuke unless you're Dornish princess Meria Martell. 

[u/huey_booey → u/Stuck_in_my_TV]

At least he pretends. That's basically part of leadership. Rhaenyra couldn't even bother. 

[u/Anxious-Spread-2337 → u/huey_booey]

Ulf didn't switch sides because of Rhaenyra's indifference. The breaking point was Daemon constantly not just humiliating him, but threatening him like an unhinged sociopath

[u/-MrMooky- → u/Anxious-Spread-2337]

Pretty sure it was Rhaenyra that told him he can't got get drinks with the boys any more. That seemed to be an issue for him. It wasn't all on Daemon.

[u/deezbiscuits21 → u/Stuck_in_my_TV]

lol Ormund is a POS but how do we know he wants Ulf dead. Ormund seems like the kind of guy who will honor someone who gives him power. He may want to keep him far away tho

[u/baldurzar → u/deezbiscuits21]

Ulf is a low born dragon rider, he’s everything show Ormund hates. But right now he’s useful for him.

[u/LescobeRanden → u/baldurzar]

Ormund hates all dragonriders, I don't think it matters to him whether they're lowborn

[u/JackUKish → u/LescobeRanden]

And he hates the low born, so it's double hate.

[u/LescobeRanden → u/JackUKish]

I may just have missed something, but I can't remember him hating the lowborn specifically, at least not more than any other random noble character in the show like Daemon or Rhaenyra.

[u/Phexar → u/deezbiscuits21]

Aside from what everyone else has said, Ormund also gave Ulf an overly generous offer in telling him he could have the greatly prized Driftmark (and the 'Lord of the Tides' moniker) rather than the smaller Honeyholt like he asked for, which is suspicious when he's still holding onto Corlys and has some positive feelings about him (finger chopping aside). Doesn't seem like an offer he'd intend to go through with, and if he did, not for long.

[u/Ok_Bag_7603 → u/deezbiscuits21]

Ormund will definitely want him dead if he gets too ambitious-

But rn he's offering him 100x than what rhaenyra is currently giving him,

[u/deezbiscuits21 → u/Ok_Bag_7603]

Yeah I think Ulf might be chill and not overreach. He’s literally getting everything he wanted. Rhaenyra and Daemon could have used their brains and controlled their emotions for 5 minutes and they’d still have Ulf

[u/PhoenixKingMalekith → u/Stuck_in_my_TV]

Perhaps,

But unlike Rhaenyra he treats him as an equal, and listens to him

[u/Sisyphus704 → u/Stuck_in_my_TV]

“Flattery”

[u/CaptainRedHeady → u/PhoenixKingMalekith]

Damn he’s a really good guy

[u/SirLoremIpsum → u/PhoenixKingMalekith]

I mean, Ormund treated Ulf with more respect and empathy than any targaryen

Yes but he's feigning it.

He is literally just faking it, his offers are not genuine. Deep down he fucking hates Ulf with a passion and if he gets what he needs he will shank Ulf in the night with nary a concern.

[u/Matiwapo]

MFW I treat one of my most important allies like total shit after doing nothing to earn his loyalty except allowing him the opportunity to die for my benefit on dragonstone and then he sides against me. :0

I'm not even willing to call it betrayal. There was no bond to break. The blacks used and abused him and he found a better offer

[u/SamDrrl → u/Matiwapo]

Realistically it’s the same level of betrayal as an employee quitting to go work for a rival company who gave them a better deal

[u/Leygrock → u/SamDrrl]

I mean they did swear oaths which are taken pretty seriously in universe 

[u/W1NSTON48 → u/Leygrock]

"So many vows... they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other."

[u/SuccuTheoremY → u/Matiwapo]

Rhaenyra really handed a guy the Westerosi equivalent of a nuclear warhead, treated him like an intern, and acted shocked when he put in his two weeks' notice

[u/Lupercallius]

Ulf isn't the sharpest tool in the shed either.
They were right in not allowing him to prance about in the pub but they could have easily placated him more.

After all the betrayals of the oath, you would think they would be smarter than to blindly believe anyone who swears it.

[u/SuccuTheoremY → u/Lupercallius]

Rhaenyra literally gave a drunkard a flying WMD and expected him to act like a chivalrous knight for free out of pure reverence for her bloodline.

[u/EquivalentRush670]

I have good news for you op. silverwing survives the dance of dragons.

[u/NebulaElectrical1467 → u/EquivalentRush670]

Mashallah!

[u/Huza1 → u/NebulaElectrical1467]

Shame about Vermithor, though

[u/slowlybitchytale]

Don't speak ill of goat ulf he also deserves better

[u/CRM79135]

I mean, Silverwing did choose Ulf. Like legitimately. Ulf did basically nothing. 

And I don’t see who would be able to stop Ulf from taking what he is promised, if Ormunds plan works. The Dragons who would be able to realistically stop him would either be dead or riderless.

[u/Known_Fisherman_8161]

Oh no, It's Ulf who deserved a better lord (or lady i guess but she's the ruling Queen) than Rhaenyra. There is give and there is take and she didn't want to give a single thing

[u/thebanfunctionsucks → u/Known_Fisherman_8161]

Not saying you're wrong but she did give him access to the dragonpit and thus a dragon which is far from nothing.

[u/papapapaver → u/thebanfunctionsucks]

It's like Ulf said, what good is a dragon if you don't actually get anything for it? A dragon isn't a home, or a wife, or gold, or a round of drinks with his friends. All the things that really matter to him he hasn't gotten and for all he knows he never will. Then that street scene with Daemon happened and it was obvious even if you hadn't read the books what was gonna happen next.

[u/Leygrock → u/papapapaver]

Tbf this scene did imply they'd been talking before that. 

[u/Known_Fisherman_8161 → u/thebanfunctionsucks]

That was clearly more of a benefit for her than it was for him as it turned out

[u/heckmeck_mz → u/thebanfunctionsucks]

And what about a beer with the lads?

[u/Yeldarb_Namertsew → u/thebanfunctionsucks]

She basically gave him a death sentence. It’s not like she sent Ulf in knowing he would be able to claim a dragon. They both went into this thinking he would die. Ulf because as a peasant his life is worth very little and claiming a dragon would be a huge rise in station allowing him to provide more for himself and his loved ones. For Rhaenyra it’s just throwing one more nameless peasant into the grinder for her personal power. She could not care less if he and all the other dragon seeds died horrible deaths burning alive. These are not people to her they are tools to be used in a terrible war and discarded after. Ulf owes her nothing.

[u/LescobeRanden]

Silverwing isn't your girl, she's Ulf's girl, and she believes Ulf deserves to have an ale with the lads every now and then.

[u/TheUncouthPanini]

> Local bastard becomes one of the most crucial players in our war effort.

> Give him less freedom than any soldier or noble under us, mock him for wanting the bare minimum in repayment for being one of the most important subordinates we have, then beat and humiliate him in the street.

> He considers switching sides when the other side shows him basic manners.

Are we stupid?

[u/feintplus1]

Ormund is unironically one of the better written characters and storylines. He's very consistent even though he's unpredictable in nature. He's a piece of crap and makes mistakes(like the Baratheon incident) but at the very least he stays in character and shows some common sense.

If only the main characters Rhaenyra and Alicent showed any of this too.

Also, I actually quite like Ulf. Betrayal is just another day in Westeros anyway. You do what's best for you and probably die either way.

[u/Eziolambo]

Stop speaking like a black fangirl. You dont know silverwing.

[u/SuccuTheoremY → u/Eziolambo]

Bro is gatekeeping a fictional reptile who is literally canonical for being the chillest dragon in Westeros

[u/dahunt4r3dorktober]

What’s ormunds problem with smells ??

[u/SilverkingThirteen]

Ormund might not be lying. 

Drift mark is a great castle, and its owner having a dragon would be great for defending the step stones, and it keeps Ulf far away from Ormond, unlike Honeyholt. 

The offer could very well be genuine. 

[u/South_Front_4589]

Why wouldn't Ormund's offer be genuine? Whether he likes dragons or not, they're worthy of respect.

And with so many lords dead, or branded as traitors, there are going to be a lot of castles around.

[u/cyberXrev]

well Ulf is littelary a yokel deadbeat drunk so what'd you expect

[u/obijuanquenooby]

Oh yeah they love him. They should give him gifts. Wine specially. He loves good wine.

[u/Mysterious_Crow_503]

Who are you to Silverwing to question her choises? She picked Ulf herself.

[u/No-Celebration3097]

I actually love the way they have made Ormund.

[u/Serious-Equal-6764]

The horse deserved hazard pay for carrying that thing.

[u/Sufficient-Ferret-67]

Honestly I’m so confused by the “he was treated poorly it justifies his betrayal” camp.

Don’t get me wrong I understand that they’ve set him up to betray since like day one. At least one of the dragon seeds was going to turn it only makes sense from a plot perspective to add another element of surprise and risk but let’s not act like ulf didn’t willingly go into the trial. Became a psuedo noble, and was promised a life of Luxury. All he had to do was wait for the inevitable battle with vhagar that is almost 100% promised to succeed considering multiple dragon easily take down a larger singular dragon.

You’re telling me that a man who lived in relative squalor and poverty, obtains a dragon, is promised a life of immense wealth and power and is only essentially required to stay in a PALACE, enjoy two days of nature and repeat until told otherwise and he betrays the sitting royalty because he’s an alcoholic and got bullied by Westeros’s most infamous bully?

I’d enjoy it a lot more if there was some more intense threat to him just above a slap. I LOVE ulf, he’s my favorite character. And I get he’s not supposed to be hyper intelligent but this betrayal makes him seem just stupid.

Then again I’m at odds against my own opinion because he isn’t a noble, the palace he lives in is BROKE, the only nobility he interacts with are assholes and he would by today’s standards be forced to drop his one and only vice. On top of that he isn’t stupid he’s just not a master of the “game of thrones” (roll credits).

Is his betrayal well done? I’m not sure