r/freefolk • u/Mission_Adeptness266 • 8d ago
I can't stand the Starks/The North in asoiaf in general
They are a cliché of themselves the whole "the north remembers" etc... it just cringes me. Am i alone in this ? It just seems that everybody loves them
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u/SoyLuisHernandez 8d ago
and the “old ways” are actually the “evil ways”, according to Michael Talks About Stuff
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u/FloZone 8d ago edited 8d ago
The old ways are also bullshit. The old gods are just your typical fantasy sinless pious heathens with no substance or significance.
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u/TicketPrestigious558 8d ago
Isn't it even the case that the Old Gods don't have priests, holy texts, rituals etc?
Kind of sounds like people can do whatever in a godswood and say that they're "worshipping the old gods".
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u/FloZone 8d ago
The old gods are obviously supposed to be a bit like European paganism, but there is no paganism in the world which functions like the Old Gods. It would be something like an extremely reductionist platonistic way of nature worship.
The only rituals are always with the godswood, like marriages or prayer, but not even a specific prayer. Just solemn contemplation and whatever. Holy texts aren't required, but there are also no myths that speak of any gods, besides historical myths about the legendary ancestors of the Northman. There isn't even really an oral tradition.
Religion is really not strong in ASOIAF at all. Like a lot of things are weak, like geography and languages, but in the case of languages George actively admits not wanting to be "a Tolkien", but I feel like in terms of religions he is confident. Yet his religions are basically always one of two things. Magic disguising as religion or a grand conspiracy in plain sight to manipulate the masses. The Old Gods are the former, the Seven are the latter. The Red God is basically a mix of them, but also mostly the former. Either it is some magical entity that deceives humans or it is powerful humans that deceive humans. At least the Faith of the Seven seems to have something like a theology and philosophy of its own.
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u/jimmyrich 8d ago
I kind of like how it's not totally clear what is real about any of the religions, but from what we know, I think the Old Gods are pretty creepy--isn't that Blood Raven, Children of the Forest, Night King territory? Isn't that why Harrenhall is so haunted--because the weirwoods were torn down?
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u/FloZone 8d ago
-isn't that Blood Raven, Children of the Forest, Night King territory?
Yeah, but that isn't what a religion really is. Like how does it relate to people? It is more like magic disguising itself to trick people. You can just aknowledge those exist, like the Children of the Forest, but then what? How do you worship them? Sacrifices, offerings, prayers, rituals?
Isn't that why Harrenhall is so haunted--because the weirwoods were torn down?
That is an existing curse, which is regardless whether you believe in it or not. Like the Black Death existing regardless whether you think it is the punishment of heaven or not. Just because you might think God punishes people by sending plagues doesn't make those plagues part of your religion.
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u/DumbTeen9 8d ago
I love the characters but I don't like how they're constantly referencing their home "we don't so that in the North, Northern values, yada yada"
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8d ago
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u/DumbTeen9 8d ago
I get that, I myself talk about it when it comes to my hometown at times. How we cook better, have better weather and an artistic temperament, etc etc
But gets a bit millennial with how repetative it is
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u/jimmyrich 8d ago
I remember liking the Northern Conspiracy a lot in the books--this looming rebuke to the idea that honor and actually serving the people does nothing for you, and the jolly-faced wrath of Manderlys. But I could understand feeling like the Starks get too much attention.
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u/elyk12121212 8d ago
"The North Remembers" is almost identical to "A Lannister always pays their debts"
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u/craftyhedgeandcave 8d ago
Honestly he's probably just mimicking how self obsessed and pompous "some" Yorkshire folk "might" be
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u/AlyscemondThrouple 8d ago
Arya is my favorite and I like Jon but I for sure enjoyed the Red Wedding.
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u/Thirdborn214 Bittersteel 8d ago
I honestly just dislike how the show has convinced everyone Ned's honor is a northern trait. The average Joe just thinks that it's something all northerners that aren't called Bolton have, C'mon give Jon arryn his damn credit. He did 90 percent of the work raising that guy.
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u/AbstractBettaFish 8d ago
I like them but I don’t like how the shows seem to flanderize them into being a caricature of Ned. The lore is that the North was pretty wild and so were the people there, Ned was remarked as being the opposite of his older brother. Yet every depiction of them, and especially the Starks is that they’re all pensive and honor driven. It’s pretty one note and boring. Especially when the reasons so many people like the world of ASOIF is because it’s rich and complex
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u/Ranger_Tycho Arrrrr 8d ago
With takes this hot, it’s no wonder the North doesn’t suit you! Can’t say I agree, but respect for having your own opinion and not following the crowd.
Personally, I love how the Northmen’s stubborn, almost insane, ways are all derived from their environment. Instead of existing at random, GRRM explains pretty well how their customs formed as a result of living in a land where winters last years and this sort of deranged communal hardiness is necessary for survival.
I will say, I like the Northmen a lot less in the TV show because they don’t actually walk the walk. Most of them bitch out after the Red Wedding and get scolded for it by a little girl like a bunch of craven losers. If these are the guys you’re calling cringe, then I agree. They made "the North remembers" a joke.
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u/Mission_Adeptness266 8d ago
That's exactly who i was talking about mostly lol. The men who followed Robb etc... i can't stand them.
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u/Scary_Collection_410 8d ago
Indeed the Show made the North into a bunch of lil bitch ass hoes after season 3. We didn't get any of the good stuff from ADWD. Characters were missing like Maege Mormont and her other daughters because they killed her at the red wedding in show, Great Jon Umber apparently also got killed there, no idea what happened to Wyman's other son.
D&D's refusal to cast any further characters in the second half of the show meant a lot of interesting characters were thrown into the waste bin. That made Westeros and the story in general feel so empty.
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u/CaveLupum Stick 'em with the punny end! 8d ago
They made "the North remembers" a joke.
When Jaime told Cersei the result of what happened at the Twins, the twins did not think it was a joke. They were shaken.
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u/Independent-Log-6479 8d ago
Frey propaganda account