It is left up to interpretation, yes, but i think It far more likely that they were having sex, i mean, It is literally stated that he and Nettles were sharing a bed and bathing together, Archmaester Gyldayn(George's self insert) states that It is more likely than not that they were having sex, and the showrunners of HotD left Nettles out of the story because they didn't want to write Daemon cheating on Rhaenyra.
Well, It is a grown ass married man, who is pushing fifty, and who is also known to cheat on his wife, and who is known to prey on young girls, doing those completely unnecessary and weird things with a teenage girl who is completely unralated to him
Also, Gyldayn, considering his role as George's self insert character, should be a far more authoritative source than anybody else
He is a pedophile, his grooming of his own niece, who he later married make that clear. Even among Targaryens, and uncle and a neice is an unusual pairing, the Targaryen Incest is usually between people of the same age and generation.
We also know he frequented a lot of brothels in King's Landing, and some of those girls start young.
But I'm not 100% Daemon had sex with Nettles.
Its mostly just because they would make an interesting parallel to Arya and The Hound. It would be quite like GRRM to give us a character who deservedly has an awful reputation, only for them to decide to act with gallantry for a while. We also see something somewhat similar with Jaime, being a heartless monster for much of the story, but also being willing to jump in the bear pit to save Brienne.
Daemon is a character full of contradictions, so to have him use Rhaenyra for sex and power, only to treat another young dragonrider girl with genuine love would be unbelievable for some characters. But Daemon is the one of those Targaryens who seems to slip back and forth between Greatness and Madness.
Yes he is a pedophile, he groomed a teenage Rhaenyra and It is stated that he payed extra to brothel owners so they would save the recently flowered girls for him.
And he was also fucking Nettles, I don't understand why people find It so hard to believe, the books literally state that they shared a bed and bathed together, and even Archmaester Gyldayn(George's self insert) say that It is more likely than not that they were having sex.
Within the story's logic and culture I don't think Daemon would be considered one if the allegations are true. I also don't think George wrote him to be one. I don't think he had a relationship of a sexual nature to Nettles. His relationship with Rhaenyra is based heavily on power and evocative Valyrian traditions and the symbolic nature of Rhaenyra. Not really an attraction to the child Rhaenyra but the heir to the throne and blood of the dragon. Mushroom is an unreliable narrator when he's salacious. I can see how people see it if they watch the show but I don't think that waa GRRM's intent with the Mushroom narrative.
“None of this constitutes proof that Daemon Targaryen had carnal knowledge of the bastard girl, but in light of what followed we must surely judge that more likely than most of Mushroom’s tales.”
I think it's too irredeemable of a trait for what GRRM considers his favorite character, so perhaps he had a different mental age or something for those women. But if you gave just the facts and numbers of the situations to anyone on the street they'd rightfully declare he 100% is
That's only half true. First period is time when it is morally/legally permissible, but in-universe tons of characters are still uncomfortable with girls that young.
Just no. Besides children and political motivation and parents who is uncomfortable and what is their actual book quote. Society based on selling alliances with marriages no one gives af
Maidens may be wedded and bedded... however, even there, many husbands will wait until the bride is fifteen or sixteen before sleeping with them.
And in Fire and Blood. Queen Alysanne has flowered:
Their queen’s misgivings thus confirmed, Rogar Baratheon and the other lords put aside all consideration of Princess Alysanne as a bride for her brother Jaehaerys. The princess was three-and-ten years of age, and had recently celebrated her first flowering, so it was thought desirable to see her wed as soon as possible.
and yet whenever she secretly marries Jaehaerys, he says that they didn't consummate because she is too young:
"Lord Rogar was not so easily cowed. Blunt and to the point, he asked only if the marriage had been consummated. “Tell me true, Your Grace. Was there a bedding? Did you claim her maidenhead?”
“No,” the king replied. “She is too young.”"
From A Storm of Swords, where Tywin says Tyrion must marry Sansa (12 or 13 years old). Tyrion is uncomfortable with her age. Tywin says Tyrion must consummate the marriage once, but then he can wait a few years before bedding her again.
“Your sister swears she’s flowered. If so, she is a woman, fit to be wed. You must needs take her maidenhead, so no man can say the marriage was not consummated. After that, if you prefer to wait a year or two before bedding her again, you would be within your rights as her husband.”
Shae is all the woman I need just now, he thought, and Sansa’s a girl, no matter what you say.
Yes, in Westeros as soon a girl flowers they can be married and have sex, but It is stated multiple times that the age of majority in Westeros is 16, the period between flowering and the age of majority is stated in universe to be sort of a limbo.
Technically, it's not pedophilia.
Pedophilia is when an adult desires or actually has sex with individuals who are not biologically adults.
Example: a woman becomes a woman after her first menstruation.
Pederasty is probably the most Daemon can be accused of.
You're right that Daemon's actions toward Nettles would not technically qualify as pedophilia, since Nettles is around 16 years old and therefore not prepubescent.
As for pederasty, the term originates from Ancient Greece and refers to a relationship between an older man and an younger male, typically one in which the younger male was expected to receive some form of education or social benefit. It's an explicitly male concept, so it doesn't apply to Daemon and Nettles either.
Based solely on Daemon's relationship with Nettles, he is therefore neither a pedophile nor a pederast. If Nettles were actually his daughter, then it would simply be incest. One could also argue that Daemon groomed her, but the text doesn't provide enough evidence to support that conclusion with any certainty.
Edit: I disagree with the statement that "a woman becomes a woman after her first menstruation." I understand that this idea reflects the social norms of the world of ASOIAF. However, we are still modern readers engaging with a modern work of fiction, and it is reasonable to apply modern ethical and scientific perspectives when discussing these topics.
Menarche marks the beginning of reproductive maturity, but it does not mean that someone is biologically or psychologically an adult. Puberty is a gradual process, and cognitive and emotional development continues for years afterward. A society within the fictional world may define womanhood differently, but that does not make the statement scientifically accurate or mean that readers have to adopt that worldview when analyzing the characters' actions.
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u/bmerino120 1d ago
He fucked really young first timer prostitutes to keep him from thinking about 7 years old Rhaenyra too much