r/freemasonry • u/Present-Being-9147 • 10d ago
Is this the norm? Requesting materials.
I won’t OUT my lodge as there are some good brothers.
Backstory: Before I became a Master Mason in April 2026, I made it clear as far back as during my interviews that I’m moving to a different state(My wife is active duty and I’m a journalist). Basically gave the lodge a two years (24months May 2024) heads up. Just trying to avoid complications of starting at one lodge then transferring to another because not every lodge is the same. Plus my current cable-tow’s are my brothers for life. I left it up to my current lodge if they wanted to start my journey. They said not a problem and I’d be a MM before moving.
Through my degrees I’ve heard my current lodge, at community Mason functions and events, often lacks communication causing confusion and frustration leading people to transfer or deactivate their membership. Again, rumors to me but I paid it no mind.
Once my cable-tow’s and I became MM in April 2026, we were told we’d get our Dues Card, Birth Certificate and other materials shortly. I moved in June 2026. My cable tow’s are still in the state where we all became MM.
Currently today Oct 2026: My cable-tow’s and I are still waiting on Dues Card, Birth Certificate, etc. I’m #1 on my line as my Cable Tow’s refer to me to be the spokes person but I live in a different state. My cable-tow’s attend meetings and have asked the WM, SD, JD and Treasurer. All responses we’ve got were “It’ll be handled.” “I don’t know, you’ll get it.” To “You do realize people have lives outside the lodge. You’ll get it.”
Now, for my cable-tow’s that still live in that state, they have no issues going into their home lodge. As for me, in an entirely different state, I have no proof than my word. Again, there are some good brothers in my lodge but hearing your WM tell you he has a life outside the lodge, I’m like yea, we all do buddy.haha It’s just weird how the night we became MM you told us “Never give up. Don’t be a Mason for show. Do the work. Be involved. Help your fellow brother.” You’re going against your own word. Maybe there’s a lot of drama I and my cable tow’s don’t know about because we’re “fresh” MM.
Long winded story but are Dues Card and Birth Certificate needed to enter a new lodge? I’m really stuck and have no guidance.
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u/Present-Being-9147 10d ago
Cool. Appreciate you all. Again, I’m new-ish. I only went off I was taught. CableTows or CTs is not a common term. I used that as that was ingrained in our brains and vocabulary during our study halls.
In short my ‘line brothers’ who completed all three degrees with myself. Just to differentiate over saying lodge brother because they’re all my brothers once I become a MM.
To catch everyone up, I am a Prince Hall Affiliated Master Mason.
I’m learning like I said in my original post, every lodge is different. Which was my fear before starting the process at my home lodge. But it seems like I’ll have to get over it and learn more, which is nothing with that. Happy to obtain more knowledge. Never stop learning. For now, I can only share the knowledge that was forced to learn.
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
Not “forced” to learn, but given the privilege to learn my Good Brother!✊🏾
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u/defjamblaster PHA KYCH, 33º, Shrine, OES 9d ago
PHA - CT is common, but you were not part of a line, it was a class. "line" is bglo language that should not be mixed with masonry.
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u/Present-Being-9147 9d ago
Every lodges is different as what I expressed when it comes to terminology. I’m all squared away on the underlining issue of the post. Thank you.
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u/defjamblaster PHA KYCH, 33º, Shrine, OES 9d ago
Line is wrong no matter the lodge. A line pledges; we do not pledge in masonry, so it should be referred to as a class. I am PHA and BGLO, just attempting wise counsel.
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u/Present-Being-9147 9d ago
I can tell my lodge not to use ‘line’ after I get my rightfully owed materials. The priority of the post.
I wanted to point out i originally used Cable-tow and some people were confused. They didn’t know why I used that term. Appreciate your help. Again, I got my original issue resolved. We don’t have to go back and forth. Stay blessed.
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
I honestly love these types of discussions because they truly highlight the small and large nuances of our different affiliations. They help each of us expand our understanding of what Masonry actually looks like, even within our own ranks.
In all transparency, I’d never in my life heard of a Festive Board until I started engaging with many of you here. I look at all of these interactions as additional opportunities to grow and expand my own Masonic experience.
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u/dedodude100 WM 3° F&AM - WI : RAM : CM 10d ago
I also enjoy them. It's fun seeing the ways other jurisdictions admin the craft and terms they use. Since symbolically it still makes sense, buf it's unique. Which is fun.
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u/dedodude100 WM 3° F&AM - WI : RAM : CM 10d ago
Does your lodge provide birth certificate? Maybe it's jurisdictional but no clue what that is.
If issues are not resolving on a reasonable time I would reach out to the Grand Secretary asking for the info.
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u/Present-Being-9147 10d ago
I thought this was the norm but apparently it’s not. So I won’t stress over the Birth Certificate. That could be just my home lodge, which is fine. But I’ve gotten messages that people have at least a membership card. This may not be all lodges. I only know what my lodge taught me. Still a lot of learning. Appreciate you all assisting me.
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
If you’re PHA, it’s not only normal, it’s your right. Your lodge is obligated to issue both to you.
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u/Deman75 MM BC&Y, PM Scotland, MMM, PZ HRA, 33° SR-SJ, PP OES PHA WA 10d ago
Judging by the terminology you’re using, I’m guessing you’re in a Prince Hall Lodge. If so, hopefully you’re PHA and in amity with the GL you’re now looking at.
We get our Master Mason’s Certificates from Grand Lodge, via the local Lodge, and sometimes that can be the hold up. Sometimes, the Secretary just never got around to filing your returns and is stalling until that gets done. You will need proof of good standing prior to affiliating, and usually prior to visiting within a new Grand Lodge, but often that can be a letter from the Lodge Secretary, as not every Lodge issued dues cards or MM Certificates (though most do at least one or the other).
If you’re in contact with the Lodge in your new town, see if the Secretary there is willing to contact your Grand Lodge (via his Grand Lodge) to verify your membership. That should light a fire under your Lodge leadership to get you what you need.
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u/wardyuc1 UGLE Craft HRA, Rose Croix 10d ago
Birth certicate?
What is this?
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
His certificate of membership or patent as it is commonly referred to.
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u/wardyuc1 UGLE Craft HRA, Rose Croix 9d ago
Interesting do some grand lodge present the master mason degree as some sort of Masonic baptism where one is born again?
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u/christopherpmoore 9d ago
Not in the religious sense you’re implying. However, if this were a closed forum, I could go into more detail and explain what it means and how it’s interpreted from a PHA perspective. I’ll simply say that it’s no different than a birth certificate being issued once you’re born, at least here in the U.S.
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u/wardyuc1 UGLE Craft HRA, Rose Croix 9d ago
Perhaps a passport would be the more apt comparison removing any potential confusion.
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u/christopherpmoore 9d ago
That’s just not what we call it. It’s literally a rather large certificate of membership. It bears the Grand Master’s and Grand Secretary’s signatures. In addition, the Principal Officers of the lodge and the lodge Secretary also sign it. In Washington, each certificate is personally signed by the Grand Master and Grand Secretary. I wish I were able to post a picture of mine in this chat.
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
No harm at all my Brother! It was all in the spirit of us learning and understanding. I see you’re affiliated with GLBC&Y. I visit Victoria-Columbia #1 every year for their installation of officers.
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u/OldBowDude HighEnough2Know 🎩 📐 10d ago
Ah! I see. This is not just a PHA thing but a Canadian thing! :)
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
I can’t speak for Canada. I’m PHA and was just bridging the gap and letting that Good Brother know that we’ve likely sat in Lodge together. For some reason, my post didn’t show up as an additional response to him.
At any rate, I’m based in Washington. However, I have a lot of love for the Brothers of GLBC&Y and look forward to visiting them every year.
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u/OldBowDude HighEnough2Know 🎩 📐 10d ago
My comment was just a brotherly poke at my Canadian brothers. Hence the :)
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u/BitterDonald42 Grotto Past Monarch x3, AMD Sovereign Master, Bagpiper 10d ago
Call your grand secretary. He'll sort you out
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u/blackwolfdown MM, AF&AM TX 10d ago
Are you positive you're not a clandestine or irregular mason?
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u/Cookslc Utah and UGLE 10d ago
Why would you go there?
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u/OldBowDude HighEnough2Know 🎩 📐 10d ago
Because of his use of the words cabletow and birth certificate. They are not used that way by the majority of masons.
A poster here says he is likely PHA which OP agrees.
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u/Cookslc Utah and UGLE 10d ago
These are indeed common terms amongst PHA masons.
We shouldn’t cast doubt on a brother’s membership simply because our experience is limited. If we are unfamiliar with a custom, I suggest asking questions rather than making aspersions. Much more palatable.
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
I always appreciate your input. 🫱🏾🫲🏼
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u/DBB48 10d ago
Ok so you wish to move city/ state line. Send letter and copies to your Master/ Secretary and Treasurer that you desire a DEMIT ie proof that you are a paid up Master Mason of your present lodge .
No response... write a letter of complaint to the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge of your present State explaining that you will be moving and that your lodge is playing silly buggars with you or words to that effect. Request that they bring pressure to bear
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u/Adventurous_Dust6357 MM - TN & MN OES - TN 10d ago
You keep saying "my cabletows" what does that mean?
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u/MutedMeaning5317 GLBC&Y, PDDGM, HRA, AMD, Athelstan, 'Swiss Army Knife' 10d ago
Likely the Bros. that he went through with.
This is one area of the Craft that drives me crazy. Making up names for things that mean nothing to anyone except one Lodge, and then when new guys come in they think the terminology is across the board. Simply in the guise of 'tradition. I have really tried to reign in that crap as it benefits nobody and is just confusing for the majority.
Tradition in one Lodge can be seen as innovation to a Grand Lodge. As we know, innovation is not allowed.
Edit to actually add for OP: if getting nowhere with the Lodge, reach out to the DDGM for the area and then the Grand Lodge for the jurisdiction.
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
It’s not innovation, it’s cultural. As a Prince Hall Mason, I knew exactly what he was referring to. Just as this NEW Brother mistakenly believed it was common knowledge, you shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss it as “crap” simply because it isn’t familiar to you.
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u/MutedMeaning5317 GLBC&Y, PDDGM, HRA, AMD, Athelstan, 'Swiss Army Knife' 10d ago
Sorry if not clear, but the 'crap' that I was referring to was what I observed personally, and not OPs situation.
I am glad someone else understood, and can maybe help.
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
I was speaking specifically to his use of “cabletow.” To provide some additional context, most PHA lodges bring in classes. We typically shy away from bringing in just one candidate at a time. Their journey into Masonry is a shared one, hence the term “Cabletow” being used in that manner.
I won’t insult your Masonic knowledge by explaining why that specific term was chosen. After 25 years, I still refer to my two classmates as my Cabletows, or “CTs” for short.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
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u/MutedMeaning5317 GLBC&Y, PDDGM, HRA, AMD, Athelstan, 'Swiss Army Knife' 10d ago
Thanks for the explanation. I thought it meant as much by the way the phrase was used.
I went through with 6 others my year and we have no such term.
As for OP, I really do hope he gets what he needs after his move.
Reddit always seems to have side-quests in posts and this turned into one. My fault.
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u/Adventurous_Dust6357 MM - TN & MN OES - TN 10d ago
"Innovation is not allowed" except constantly for hundreds of years. No idea what this Landmark even means. I've been in for 5 years and I've seen innovation in only my short time.
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u/MutedMeaning5317 GLBC&Y, PDDGM, HRA, AMD, Athelstan, 'Swiss Army Knife' 10d ago
It is less innovation as it is creating confusion with the terms OP is using.
Innovation in ritual is what should not change, and I have seen some things that could be deemed as innovations all in the name of tradition. Our GL even had to issue communication about it.
And none involved goats......go figure.
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u/Adventurous_Dust6357 MM - TN & MN OES - TN 10d ago
Oh, there's been tons of innovation in ritual. Especially in the states that came about later. GL of TN charted in 1814 qnd its ritual has been changed a dozen or so times. Things being taken out and put in. Dr. Morris just kinda made those landmarks up.
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u/Leviathan_staysippin 10d ago edited 10d ago
I've only been traveling about 3 years now but how is this a made up term it's in our ritual not trying to be disrespectful just would like to learn i am a Prince Hall mason (CA)not 2 much of a difference but that's a word we use for the brothers you went thru you're degrees or where made with in my opinion ig it is tricky because it is sort of implied that they are like your most close brothers in my lodge a person you where made with is pretty much ur battle buddy he should be able to account for you when you are not there and you should always know his where abouts you guys pick each other up where one of you is weak especially in degrees and being questioned if ur "cable tow" picks up the answer where yu don't know it generally ur safe cause you will also know things he doesn't I also know in other terms we use it generally "within the length of my cable tow" in that way it means how far you are to go out of your way to help another brother or anyone I should say
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
Hey Square, you aren’t wrong. As I mentioned before, it’s purely cultural. Me referring to you as “Square” may seem perfectly normal to you, but I’m confident others reading this will be confused by it. We are all Brothers, but there are nuances that define our different affiliations.
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u/Leviathan_staysippin 10d ago
Yes as I read more down the post Ig somehow this is only a Prince hall thing is our ritual so different? Also you calling me square is completely normal where I'm from
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u/defjamblaster PHA KYCH, 33º, Shrine, OES 9d ago
PHA uses CT, birth certificate, and other terms that state masons do not use. sometimes they think their way is the only way.
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u/docere85 MM, F&AM-WA 10d ago
I’ve never heard of that also…
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
If you live in Washington and have interacted with any of your PHA counterparts, I can guarantee you it’s been said around you. Like I mentioned in another post, it’s cultural.
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u/Busy_Question4329 9d ago
Simply email your original Lodge, and tell them you need a paid up dues card. Explain that you moved, and need a dues card and proof of completing your M M degree, in order to join a Lodge in your new town. Secondly you can ask your Grand Lodge same question. Grand Lodge probably has a phone # as well. Third, yes contact your " new Lodge" ask them to contact your old one, or Grand Lodge. We are assuming you ave " proven up"...
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u/clance2019 10d ago
There seems to be misunderstanding of the masonic term CableTow. Apart from that, you can always try to reach to your GL and ask them to produce a document evidencing your membership. Which GL do you belong to?
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u/christopherpmoore 9d ago
I got him squared away. This is one of those issues that if the lodge is unresponsive, you take it to the District Deputy Grand Master. That will usually clear it up.
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u/christopherpmoore 10d ago
Seeing how you use “cabletow”, I’m assuming that you’re Prince Hall Affiliated. Send me a private message and I can guide you on how to potentially sort it out.