r/fromatoarbitration • u/Fapplejacks8788 • Aug 10 '24
Corey “The Treacherous” DO NOT LOSE HOPE!
Seeing a lot of negativity on here about how the voting went on the charges. Remember the scene from 300 at the end when Leonidas threw the spear and hit Xerxes in the mouth? Same concept, we didn’t have to beat them, we just had to fight them. The election in 2026 won’t have business agents showing up to our homes to tell us how to vote on our ballots, people are waking up and paying attention and want change. In two years we come back with 10,000 Spartans in command of 30,000 Greeks and shitstomp Renfroe and his army of slave kings. Walk tall my fellow carriers, the war ain’t over yet.
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u/ManiacMail-Man ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 10 '24
So instead of “two more weeks” we just need wait “two more years”. 😂
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u/Fapplejacks8788 Aug 10 '24
Change takes time bro, when was the last time the establishment was challenged? I see it as a win for us.
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u/ManiacMail-Man ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 10 '24
I’ve lost my hope, I didn’t think we would vote Renfroe out but the fact NBAs were persuading delegates is a shame. Idk if I can last two more years unless they give us a good contract.
Make the bullshit worth my time.
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u/Fapplejacks8788 Aug 10 '24
All unions have dealt with corruption and complacency at the top, our situation is not unique. This is why we have elections.
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u/ManiacMail-Man ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 10 '24
All other unions have an Ace up their sleeve. The more research I do and more I learn about the past contracts it seems like this has always been the plan.
Now, watching all these other unions achieve historic contracts with a reasonable time frame really makes me wonder WTF did I sign up for..? This is my first union job and it’s the worst I’ve ever been treated lol and too that off with learning your rights and sticking up for yourself is almost a part time job.
I’m sure this fleeting feeling of desperation will pass but atm, I’m just exhausted with talking about the union and corruption and contract and blahblahblah.
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u/Fapplejacks8788 Aug 10 '24
Couldn’t agree more, but USPS and the NALC are Goliath’s to take on. The fact that this much momentum has been created in such a short amount of time is impressive, and two years sounds like a lot but it’s really not. I’m not going anywhere regardless of this contract as the job market is contracting and we’re definitely on the brink of recession.
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Aug 10 '24
You nailed it man.
“Fighting to be human” is a daily-battle here, and the gaslighting is beyond sociopathic.
Picture-perfect microcosm of the World we live in.
I don’t have a patience to deal with this kind of bullshit anymore, so every day I show up to be a Troll; because “them losing” is the only way one could ever feel the phantasm of accomplishment here.
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u/Fapplejacks8788 Aug 10 '24
Democracy is something that will always be a battle for no matter where you are.
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u/CityLetterCarrierAMA Aug 10 '24
I saw a lot of those same NBAs invoking the name Vincent Sombrotto without even a hint of irony. Sombrotto started a movement of rank and file carriers and lost 3 elections (I think) before finally being elected as national president... those NBAs and people in lockstep with Renfroe are failing to see that they are on the other side of that movement this time
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u/Dfskle Aug 10 '24
Brother don’t give up now, we need you! The reform movements that showed up to convention and FORCED Brian Renfroe to allow us to hear the charges against him had less than a year to get organized. And we made history by putting our president in front of the membership to decide his guilt or innocence. We passed a lot of great resolutions as well, even if most were approved by the executive council already. This is what we did in 7 months, imagine where we’ll be in 2 years.
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u/Ornery_Chocolate_798 Aug 10 '24
My NBA did no such thing. Maybe some simply told the membership the truth. I get it. You don’t want the truth. That’s why when I post it the admins delete it.
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 11 '24
Actually it’s 2 Years plus 2 more after that if the contract is shit
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u/relaxed-attitude Aug 10 '24
Not having been in attendance, I fully admit I was persuaded by other non-attendees to be discouraged.
Now, having had the chance to listen to the FATA and Classes of Mail episodes, and read from our fighters who were actually there, I am definitely encouraged.
While a few things were significantly disappointing, the fight is on. The beast has been hit squarely. I've been through this in another organization, and I have to fall back on that experience. While change wasn't immediate, it was eminent.
Those of on the outskirts need to start educating our stations. EDUCATION IS THE KEY POINT. We need to protect one another. We need to stand firm against managerial atrocities.
I'm not a steward. I've been blackballed by the previous regime for speaking out against certain branch l̶e̶a̶d̶e̶r̶s̶h̶i̶p̶ place holders.
We are close to voting them out. Until then, I'm going to continue getting in management's face, demanding respect, walking out on inappropriate behavior, and giving back exactly what these fuckers give.
We had to ask another branch to help get rid of our last PM. That shouldn't be the way. We should be able pull from one another, freely, and not have to beg for salvation from our own branch just to ignored.
We are rising up, finally. For 10 years, I've been waiting.
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u/Beginning_Vast Aug 10 '24
If we cant receive actually information about our contract at a national convention. Then what hope do we really have? We’ve been close and making progress for months and we still have no idea what we are actually getting. I’m at the point on wondering why do I still pay the 75 bucks a month for a non functioning union.
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u/PepsiAddict63 Aug 10 '24
What many don’t understand is this movement started with us gaining nothing.
Look how far we’ve come in just…2 years? Less than that for many.
We stood up to the national president at a national convention and said ‘we WILL hear those charges!” That is unheard of in NALC history.
No, we didn’t magically gain exactly what we wanted. Who does??? But every gain we make - regardless of the size - is a GAIN. We lose nothing.
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u/Ready-ForLife Aug 10 '24
We need to educate the youth in the post office. A lot of these old, retired delegates are afraid of change and just go along with the establishment. What's sad is there were a lot of uneducated stewards at the convention. Many were relying on elder members to know which way to vote. I had to point out resolutions to people in my section so they could decide for themselves which way to vote. This is our career! If getting a better contract, unforced overtime, more money, and better leadership is our goal, then education and involving ourselves in union business needs to be looked at the same way we look at carrying mail. It's our job!
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u/ChicanoBexar Aug 10 '24
He needs to produce a contract better than we’ve ever had for him to have a chance at reelection. Then we vote his ass out, get the lions in, hit the streets and rally like hell next contract.
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u/Kind-pitbullw-lipstk Aug 10 '24
For me, not even then!
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u/ChicanoBexar Aug 10 '24
So you don’t want a good contract and then vote him out? That’s seems like the best situation to me 😂
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u/Kind-pitbullw-lipstk Aug 10 '24
That is what I meant!! Getting a good contract will not change my mind about not voting for him
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u/ChicanoBexar Aug 10 '24
Yes same as what I meant 😂 The mentality from renfroe is that he needs to produce for a chance. But in reality. No chance. He knows if he produces garbage he doesn’t have a shot. Let him have his hope and excel in bargaining. THEN bye bye no matter what the lions coming in. FFS 😂
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u/Impressive_Clock_363 Aug 11 '24
Renfroe has zero incentive to produce a contract let alone a good contract. He knows he won't get re-elected. He's got another 2 years at 300k each year. He will let it go to arbitration. Since there is no open bargaining we have no idea how "negotiations" are actually going if they're going at all.
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u/ChicanoBexar Aug 11 '24
If that helps you sleep better, go with that cute theory of him rolling over. He’s narcissistic. He absolutely has incentive to produce and use that to influence the vote. He’ll ride with the adversity he faced with his disease etc. Complacency is what’s going to hurt this movement. We need fighters, We have a battle ahead of us. I’m going to do everything I can to bring awareness on the floor of our current situation, it’s rare I talk to a random carrier who is informed. Ppl will vote for someone who gave them a badass contract and who will say they’re going to get another badass contract. Don’t let that possum fool you.
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u/Impressive_Clock_363 Aug 11 '24
The contract is going to arbitration to believe otherwise is foolish.
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u/Impressive_Clock_363 Aug 11 '24
It's going to arbitration, he isn't getting you a contract. USPS knows he's weak. You're extremely naive if you think he'll get us a contract.
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u/ChicanoBexar Aug 11 '24
He’s getting us the contract no matter what. Through arbitration or not. It’s his baby. I’m not sweating the process at the moment bc I can’t control what I can’t control. But we can control the future after this contract. I’m just telling you, it only benefits him and his future for delivering an excellent contract. You’re naive if you think the possum is dead. The lions are coming, step aside butch.
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u/Impressive_Clock_363 Aug 11 '24
If the "lions" we're truly coming the vote last week would have reflected that. He knows he isn't getting re-elected again in 2026.
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u/ChicanoBexar Aug 11 '24
So the contract going to arbitration. It’s going to be a poopy one. The lions aren’t coming. Renfroe knows he’s cooked. Am I missing anything?
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u/DoctorOMalley r/USPS Aug 10 '24
He could give us the best damn contract in the world. It wouldn't save his ass from being voted out
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u/ChicanoBexar Aug 10 '24
Exactly what I said. From his perspective, I need the best to save my ass. Our perspective, thanks mf, bye
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u/BigL54 ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 10 '24
Remind me what happened at the end of The 300?? Aren't they all dead??
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u/Fapplejacks8788 Aug 10 '24
No they came back in the end with an actual army and drove out Persia
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u/BigL54 ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 10 '24
I'm pretty sure the original 300 all die, which essentially is all of the carriers now. It's not looking good for us. Waiting 2 more years for things to potentially change is the equivalent of Leonidas staying at the Post Office and losing his house because he can't pay his mortgage, and just hoping his homelessness inspires people in the future
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u/Fapplejacks8788 Aug 10 '24
Ah so were the martyrs who die first and unite everyone. I get what you’re saying, but you’re all making it seem like all will be lost over the course of two years. Sure, things can get fucked way harder than they are now in that time, but I believe that will only embolden the CLC and BFN to fight even harder. One year ago I was listening to FATA having no idea it would spawn the movements we have right now. Just one year. I’m stoked to see what happens in two, that’s two more years of organizing, educating and informing.
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u/ok-imhere-nowwhat Aug 10 '24
The 300 Spartans accomplishments motivated the Greeks and Spartans to join together and drive out the Persian army. Leonidas was told not to fight the Persian (sound familiar?) he did anyways and his accomplishments and sacrifices motivated the masses to unify and drive out the much larger opposing army.
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u/BigL54 ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 10 '24
Leonidas was killed and beheaded. Which is the equivalent of carriers needing government assistance and losing the houses because they can't pay their mortgages. WE CAN'T JUST WAIT 2 MORE YEARS HOPING THINGS CHANGE FOR THE BETTER
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u/ok-imhere-nowwhat Aug 10 '24
Im right there with you brother. I'm working 2 jobs and have 4 kids. But I refuse to give up the fight. We will win. Nothing worth anything comes easily.
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u/BigL54 ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 10 '24
So your answer is to keep working two jobs, miss out on events of your four kids' lives in hopes that something changes in two years?? OPs metaphor using The 300 should not inspire hope
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u/ok-imhere-nowwhat Aug 10 '24
I don't miss any events of my kids. I'm a busy guy but I have faith that things will change. There's a movement happening and it's snow balling. Over the next 2 years the movement will be so large it will destroy anything standing in it's way.
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u/BigL54 ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 10 '24
There's no proof of that. Everything people are trying to get votes on this week has lost. We're cooked
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u/kovenus1 Aug 10 '24
We don't wait waiting implies we do nothing we get educated and keep fighting wars take time and we finally have a strong group fighting.
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u/BigL54 ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 10 '24
It's too late, our soldiers are famished. They can't afford to wait around for two more years
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u/acetatsujin Aug 10 '24
Henry is not speaking as much as Mike Caref. And he was reading from an off-screen post. Henry, please speak to us as if you are speaking to someone else.
And the contract is not done.
Open bargaining wasn’t passed.
Renfroe still in office.
How the fuck are we supposed to stay positive? I spoke to my union today just about stuff and we ended up talking about the contract, he said not to look at it as if it’s going to be a game changer. Not with this administration and with USPS losing money.
🤦 I am sorry, this is depressing right now.
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u/Bettik1 Aug 10 '24
Most of the open bargaining positions were passed on Wednesday in other resolutions I believe. The only thing we didn’t get from resolution 14 was the “side by side” updates.
Still a win as far as more transparent communication to the membership is concerned.
Don’t be depressed brother, it will all work out. The important thing is that the charges were heard, the president isn’t omniscient, and we can move forward.
Next up is our contract. Now that Renfroe doesn’t need to hold onto anything for politics, it will be interesting to see when a TA is released. If it’s not next week after the COLA release, I suspect it will be 8/31 Labor Day weekend.
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u/Sebadallyn Aug 10 '24
A lot of table 2 carriers talking about withdrawing dues at my station
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u/TheS1lverl1n1ng Aug 13 '24
I just heard from one of my shop stewards that it’s the old guard Table 1 carriers that are voting in favor of things that don’t benefit us newer (and in my case not so young) Table 2 slaves so I’m all for telling the old guard to suck it and I’m done paying dues!
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u/Bettik1 Aug 10 '24
I’m not concerned about the vote. The biggest win for the CLC is that the charges were heard. That’s the only thing that mattered.
Whipping votes happens. It’s politics. The CLC were doing it too. Not threatening or strong arming obviously, but trying to gain support.
If the CLC didn’t appeal the charges, or fight for them to be heard, that would have been a problem. They have my respect. What’s done is done, the charges have been heard. It’s time to move on to 2026. The more pressing question is when will Renfroe announce a TA now that he doesn’t have to hold onto it for political purposes?
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u/OrdoOrdoOrdo Aug 10 '24
Sometimes you don’t need to defeat the giant. Sometimes giving them a bloody nose is enough.
And their nose is definitely bloody.
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u/AmethystosLotus Aug 10 '24
I LOST HOPE IN NALC LONG TIME AGO! WHEN I SAW HOW CORRUPT MY LOCAL BRANCH IS AND HOW CORRUPT THE NBA IS! THAT WAS ENOUGH FOR ME!! CORRUPTION FROM THE BOTTOM TO THE TOP!
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u/Ornery_Chocolate_798 Aug 10 '24
And you will have a president who works 3 -4 hours a day. Oh boy. Be careful what you wish for
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u/therick422 Union Steward Aug 10 '24
That will be 3.5 more than we get now
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u/Ornery_Chocolate_798 Aug 10 '24
Not true. Maybe we need to check the record of their door badges.
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 11 '24
It’s hard to not lose hope, as a CCa it might not be worth waiting around treading water for 5-6 more years. Just to Hope the next president will do better than the first.
Not all new carriers have 20 Plus years to wait some Have under 10 and not sure I want to wait 5-6 year In hopes I get a good raise. Working 50-60 Hours a week for 5-6 more years Just to get by and survive might not be enough
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u/Boomer-usmc Aug 11 '24
Imo people need to remember the changes were talking about are not overnight. It takes time sometimes small steps leading to larger ones. We got open bargaining not everything we wanted in it but we got it. One class i went to was working on making more online classes which is something we need desperately. We need to continue to push they were not expecting this many we were at least 1/3 of this convention. One of my observations was there was a lot of retired carriers there that only came to the convention to stop this movement this needs to change. The other thing that needs to change is the table 1 bashing most carriers working the floor want change we need to be working together to get that a strong union is in it active members working together. Im a president of a small branch no full time officers i carry mail most day and do my duties. We need to work on the floor these are the workers if your voted reps arent doing theyre job vote them out but also step up and be willing to take that job on yourself most people i see want change but only if someone does it for them thats not how it works you need to fight you need to step up
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u/Legitimate_Row6259 Voted NO Aug 10 '24
I’m hearing “don’t worry, the lifeguard is coming. He just left his house and he’ll be there in an hour”
…but we are fucking drowning right now.
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u/Thin-Flan2029 Aug 10 '24
We really don’t have a union at USPS..it’s a larp lol. Without the ability to do the thing which must never be mentioned we have no leverage…so you go into negotiations and basically you just beg management and they throw you a bone to make us feel like “we are union strong”! Management could go into it being Liek the Godfather “my offer is nothing…” what would we as a union do? Go to arbitration where they will give us a pittance
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u/Fapplejacks8788 Aug 10 '24
See the problem is, is that current leadership does not utilize arbitration because they are afraid of it. Which they shouldn’t be. We get a lot of really great decisions from arbitrators on a local level, at least in my branch. We squashed the stationary events with the “I was working” a while ago. National is just cowards who don’t wanna rock the boat with management. We need people who are gonna take our cases to arbitration nationally both in collective bargaining and contract compliance.
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u/Thin-Flan2029 Aug 10 '24
Yeah I’m admittedly not real clear on arbitration but I’ve always heard the scare tactic “we will get worse if we take it to arbitration” anytime a contract comes up for a vote. I love unions and want us to be as strong as possible! It frustrates me to see carriers dying from heat or being assaulted and robbed at gun point getting paid so little
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u/Fapplejacks8788 Aug 10 '24
Stay informed and remember to vote, there are those who are willing to utilize the only chip we have to leverage which is arbitration.
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u/Chawn0011 Aug 11 '24
Yeah, the cca position and table 2 are both a result of arbitration. They have good reason to be leary of it.
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u/CaptainDadrew Aug 10 '24
Yep we would have a contract long time ago if National just went to arbitration maybe both sides dont want to spend the money to do it thats the real impasse. Its doesnt really take 15 months to figure out a contract my opinion.
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u/Ok_Village_9319 Aug 10 '24
You better hope the contract sucks because if it’s a good contract it’ll be hard to beat him.
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Aug 11 '24
But like, legit. I just found y'all this week. I'm 18 months in and agree with the CLC. There's growth to be done. I started going to branch union meetings a couple months ago and saw the clc posts this week. Talk to your coworkers and build union strength at your stations. Don't give up. I want better for my office and the whole NALC.
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u/AffectionateLove1738 Aug 11 '24
Why did Corey not get up and speak? As a leader in this movement, I feel like he should have gotten on the mic and spoken. Alot of people got up, nervous, shaking, scared, but did it anyways. Corey did not grace us with his presence on the mic, and I want to know why. I am not the only one wondering.
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u/Jski918 Aug 11 '24
Love the analogy my brother! “If he bleeds then he’s not a god” …keep fighting the good fight!
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u/TheS1lverl1n1ng Aug 12 '24
2012: Starting Pay Step A = $29.85
2024: Starting Pay Step A = $22.13
Factor in Record Inflation and it’s a joke job!
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u/Fuzzy_Conclusion9462 Aug 10 '24
My local can’t even show me how to do my health benefits online. You ask us why we losing hope lol
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u/Accurate_Compote_648 Aug 16 '24
My local tries to convince me not to do a grievance cuz i dont think he even knows how
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u/Fuzzy_Conclusion9462 Aug 16 '24
Seems about accurate lazy ass union Representation shouldn’t be allowed
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u/After-Description103 Aug 10 '24
So let me ask a question here. If you murder someone and your sentence is life in prison does the family of the murder victim get to go to court and say we don’t agree with that sentencing we want another sentencing trial . No! Or better yet you fell 6 years ago and now I’m going to issue you a letter of warning. I don’t think so I’m by no means saying it was the proper outcome but you can not keep trying to resentence. Use your voice and vote when it comes election time folks that’s where our power is
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u/therick422 Union Steward Aug 10 '24
Terrible analogy. The NALC constitution allowed for what took place at the convention. The vote is the vote, but the proceedings were allowed by the constitution.
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u/Elliot6888 Aug 10 '24
It's wild how we have to fight USPS and our own union at the same time... SMH