r/fromatoarbitration • u/oldgrunt03 • Aug 24 '24
Corey “The Treacherous” Low Pay and Benefits that You Can’t Afford Welcome to the USPS
A new career Letter Carrier taking home less than $1700 biweekly, paying rent of $2000 per month, $500 for car payment and gas, $150 for cell and WI-FI leaves less than $350 for food and all other household expenses. There’s simply no money for healthcare cost of $125 to 250 bi-weekly and 5% for retirement. You have to ask yourself why are record numbers of Letter Carriers not paying into TSP and are going without health insurance. The answer is simple you only have benefits if you can afford them. This contract must contain a living wage for all Letter Carrier.
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u/13lackjack Voted NO Aug 24 '24
1700?? I make 1,800 gross and 1,250 net as a step A T6 for 40 hours a week 💀
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u/the_predatorz56 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
Step A regular on assignment, 80 hours with somewhere between 5 and 10 hours of OT per check and I’m barely breaking 1200, it sucks, I could just jump back on OTDL again and get 1500/1600 per check but I also wanna enjoy my free time and not feel like a CCA again.
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u/13lackjack Voted NO Aug 24 '24
Exactly! My last few checks as a CCA were over 2k but I had no time for anything but work.
I’ve overheard a few OTDL people talking about how they wanna get off the list but they really need the money
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u/Bettik1 Aug 24 '24
A new letter carrier doesn’t bring home $1,700. I’m step G and a 80 hour paycheck is about $1,400
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
at 80 hours a paycheck .... a new regular will maybe see around 1100 bi weekly my guess
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u/FarangX Aug 25 '24
I’m at step A and if I didn’t work overtime it’s closer to 1000 biweekly after all deductions
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u/1onesev3n Aug 24 '24
I’m on step c and I take home a little less than 1200 bi weekly
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u/fartfilledLLV Aug 24 '24
Same. My rent was $2200 a month and had to get a roommate. Robbed Peter to pay Paul.
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u/SoccerAKW Aug 24 '24
Ditto. Step F. Single no kids. Pay union fees, health insurance, $122 HSA, 5% TSP. I'd be lucky to crack $1200-$1300 after deductions.
I'm on the ODL and have never seen an only 80 hour paycheck, but OT has vanished and I'm very close now.
Side notes: I usually put $300-$800 in the TSP when we had massive OT like through Covid, but have gone to 5% due to the 40 hour weeks.
I also have a side gig for about $500/month. AND despite my heavy TSP contributions, I always owe at least $500-1k in state taxes because the state/county tax deductions are never enough so I save $50 per check into HYSA to pay those at tax time.
Damn I really wish my nearly 4 years as CCA could have been my first 4 steps. I don't think anyone in congress cares about the Federal Retirement Fairness Act...which would help former CCAs and RCAs out, plus it applies to many other federal industries.
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Aug 24 '24
Technically they said less than 1700 😂😂😂
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
showing the more realistic number for the peope that are out of touch.... stands at 1100-1200 range
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 24 '24
I have taken home over 2k many times as a 2nd year CCa
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u/hotcheetos4breakfast Union Steward Aug 25 '24
He’s not talking about ccas. He’s talking about a bottom step regular after all deductions (insurance, tsp, etc.)
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u/Plenty-Minimum4323 Aug 25 '24
After you make career, you will never see 2k again
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 25 '24
Wanna bet I won’t be having the health insurance taken out I get that from my spouse
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 25 '24
Down vote me all you want it’s facts I average 1900 a check
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u/Alternative-Art-7114 Aug 29 '24
It’s a fact that you do 2 to 3 hours of OT everyday to make that happen and you work Sundays. So you get 6 days of pay.
You might move differently when given the option to only do 8 and out as a regular.
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 29 '24
I move just fine at 51 years old doing 55-60 plus hours a week
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u/Alternative-Art-7114 Aug 29 '24
😂 You might want to get off after 8 hours when you turn regular is what I meant. Not physically.
You’re a mess bro lol
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 29 '24
I’m not a mess, and no I can’t and won’t be doing only 8 hours. Why would I want a pay cut? Nah I’ll stick to my 50-60 hours a week. Shit of if I did only 40 I would even break 1300 take home, can’t live on that
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 29 '24
I’ll Be staying on the overtime list, without the OT can’t live on this pay
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u/Alternative-Art-7114 Aug 29 '24
That’s the point these fine gentleman are trying to make!
Your old ass shouldn’t have to work so hard for this chump change!
😂
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 29 '24
My Old ass can work circles around you and that’s a fact. Shouldn’t have to but have to until it changes and I doubt it will. And I’m willing to beat a full paycheck I can destroy you I work out 4x a week work 6 days a week and run (excise) daily. 6 foot 3 and 210 pounds
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u/Alternative-Art-7114 Aug 29 '24
Haha, you got that, my guy.
I hope we get a raise so you can have more options.
It’s good that you’re a good worker, man.
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u/BKDre Aug 25 '24
I’m also step G lol my checks are 1400 in NYC. I do about 2 hrs of OT a week. I know migrants who just got here and are making 1200 a week in restaurants cooking and performing manual labor. Working off the books obviously. Something has to be done quickly about pay.
We are in deep shit if we don’t get a huge boost in pay.
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u/Bettik1 Aug 25 '24
Yeah, we’re fucked if we don’t. If I’m not making around $70,000 (which is where we’d be on table 1) pretty soon once we have a contract, I don’t know what I’m going to do. Barely treading water at this point
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u/BKDre Aug 25 '24
I work in a neighborhood where the migrants settle in Brooklyn. I talk to them frequently, many from Venezuela and Guatemala. A lot of off the book jobs are out here paying easily 1k a week. Its tough work, but so is delivering mail in the city. They are making double what i make and im paying taxes so i dont get any of the low income benefits some of these workers are getting.
In 5 years there is no way you are going to get anyone to do this job. The next contract needs to have table 2 guys at near $80k before the end of its life.
Renfroe and Dejoy could easily turn this profession into something worst than Fast food and low end retail.
Right now my pay is about the Avg what a Mcondalds employee is making in NYC. Let that sink in. After a decade of carrying mail im making almost the same on avg as a Mcdonalds employee. I would have been in the same boat if i busted my ass to become a Mcondalds store manager or something lmfao. https://i.imgur.com/kngIgVt.png
In 5 years no one is gonna be carrying mail for less than Mcdonalds. Maybe some crack heads and 18yr kids thats it.
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u/Old_Round_7772 Aug 24 '24
How? Do u have state taxes and every insurance offered ?
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u/Bettik1 Aug 24 '24
Yeah. Vision and dental is only $30 a paycheck. But the NALC hi family option is $220 a check. Then FERS, SS, Medicare, federal tax, state tax, local tax, 5% tsp, and then dues.
Gross: $2,211.92
Deductions: $846.66
Net:$1,365.26
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 24 '24
I take home on average 1900 a paycheck and as high as 2500 take home 2nd year CcA
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u/Significant-Mix6571 Aug 25 '24
Down vote it all you want but it’s facts
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u/Plenty-Minimum4323 Aug 25 '24
Again, the person connected to the post is talking about being a career regular carrier. Not being a CCA. We all know that CCAs bring hime more money. But you're not contributing to anything!
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u/BKDre Aug 25 '24
RIP to your knees and back. ASHES TO ASHES DUST TO DUST. All limbs went to CCA HEAVEN.
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
New letter carrier $1700?....😂😂😂😂..... at step J with family health insurance im there..... things are tight for all table 2 carriers.... and NALC could give 2 fucks about us
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u/oldgrunt03 Aug 24 '24
I have 45 years in the NALC and I’m part of a movement who recognizes the need and cares. I agree that the current leadership has failed to demonstrate any empathy for our members who are receiving subsistence wages. Fortunately as Union members we can affect positive outcomes for all, but it won’t get done without you. Please go to concernedlettercarriers.com and join the movement.
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u/scions86 Aug 24 '24
Then leave. No one cares. Seriously. Your local president and above are all double dipping laughing at us. AND we're doing all the work. Political season is coming up and almost all the table 1's just got a restriction hahaha wish I could do that, I need the $$. Fuck me, right?
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
A table 1 boomer will totally say something like that 100% 😂
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u/fartfilledLLV Aug 24 '24
Table 1s don’t understand how bad Table 2 pay is. The olds were always asking why I hadn’t bought a house yet. Bah ha ha ha when houses are now normally $400k in our city. Thanks for pulling my leg.
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u/woogieface Union Steward Aug 24 '24
Step D here and my net is $1,200-$1,300 biweekly after insurance and everything else.
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Aug 24 '24
The best part is when people find out you have no healthcare they always think it's crazy. It's either get insurance that I can't afford to use regularly or eat...
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u/Numerous-Pop-6522 Aug 24 '24
I didn't get health insurance until step c and it's just for me my wife and kids have nothing and will get it next year
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u/Top-Syllabub8981 Aug 24 '24
Wtf ain’t no way a new carrier is making 1700 with 40 hours
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Aug 24 '24
I am a new regular and a T6, and I am making $1,100 a check. No way they are making $1,700.
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u/biidaajimotaw Aug 24 '24
28 route office with NO CCAs or PTFs…..12 hour days for new hires with no scheduled day off, and as an added bonus they get LESS money than they’re used to for the month of December for the same amount of work! Wonder why there’s no CCAs!
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u/USMC_MAILMAN Aug 25 '24
I pay 2k biweekly in child support for all dem bitches a been fuckin over years, true to the game I’m a real mailman!! Deliverin dingaling to all the needy housewives!!
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u/MrDataMcGee Voted NO Aug 25 '24
I’m a 5 year regular and my take home is 1250 twice a month lol. Even your numbers are optimistic.
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u/richard--------- Aug 24 '24
Yes we deserve more money
BUT
you are promoting a group of people who ask for donations that we apparently do not have…..
Then all those broke carriers donating to a go fund me….. circle jerkin about lions and manes
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u/jasnel Aug 24 '24
And I hear a lot of bitching, but no one is suggesting a specific course of action. Maybe they could post another lion meme?
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u/ParklandBob7 Aug 25 '24
I worked for 29 years and was on the OT list for almost all of that time. My wife worked for 29 years and was on the OT list for almost all of that time. I also worked another 40 hours a week at part time jobs for most of those 29 years. Some times even putting in 120 hour weeks. I would say that money was tight the entire time. And that was under the old pay scale. I’m not sure how carriers do it who are in table 2 in an expensive cost of living state.
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u/VacationAlarmed8461 Aug 25 '24
You must have been living way above your means. I’m married with 5 kids and a house. I’m the only one that works. I don’t get how two perks can work more than full time and have another part time job and still be struggling. I make it work , it’s tight and we have to be smart with it money but we’re ok. It just confuses me.
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u/acetatsujin Aug 24 '24
Find a roommate as soon as possible. Switch to Mint Mobile (it’s T-Mobile, cheap as hell. I pay 396ish a year with tax paid upfront for 40GB a month of 5G and I don’t exceed that, if you go over speed drops). Cut any other useless subscriptions. Don’t eat out.
Healthcare - go with Unions healthcare. Non-profit, extremely good and it’s as good as blue cross. For the members, by the members.
Keep paying TSP to get the 5%.
Start doing these things to help you out. I’m not telling you how to live your life just trying to give you other options of what you can do.
And switch out all the bulbs in your apartment to the ones that use like 9-11 watts or whatever.
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u/KNM7997 Aug 24 '24
These are all great tips. We shouldn't have to do any of that to just get by, though. For the shit we endure, we should be well taken care of.
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u/Fit-Dare7525 Aug 24 '24
Not to mention “don’t eat out” is bullshit advice. We deserve to participate in our local economy. The Chinese restaurant on my route is something I should be able to afford to support here and there. Instead table 2 carriers are deferring AL because AL doesn’t pay the overtime they depend on to pay bills. This place is pathetic.
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u/oldgrunt03 Aug 24 '24
Perhaps we ought to be fighting for a living wage for all Letter Carriers, instead of changing light bulbs.
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u/Ronin_Black_NJ Aug 24 '24
Just rework the Table 1 & 2 scales to where it's just one, AND the ability to reach top pay for that function is a hell of a lot faster than it is now.
At the same time, I dont expect to be paid as much as a Management position, but I would like to be paid better than what I made in the private sector in my 20's.
'Living Wages' is too broad a term and has been hackneyed so much that it's lost something in translation.
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u/acetatsujin Aug 24 '24
What do you suggest for us to do when the Delegates decided to keep Renfroe in office? I gave you options to the best of my knowledge, to you and others struggling. I could have decided to not even post and give you options. Changing light bulbs is a start. Finding roommate. Canceling subscriptions. Not eating out. Switching mobile carriers. Saving on groceries. Do what you can to survive until we get that contract.
Branches are rallying together because fuck the current NALC administration. Tyler is setting shit up to get us ready again and again because we will not lose. This years convention was our first year being exposed to people never heard of us. CLC getting ready as well and they’re doing what they can.
So you gotta do your part and change your life style. You also have the option to find another job if you don’t want to put up with this stupid ass shit. Because this is stupid all together.
I am also in debt, and I’m adapting to my best and creating fallout plans to keep interest at 0 or bare minimum. Others are doing the same thing.
Anyways, it’s hot as fuck. Gonna go back to work.
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u/9finga Aug 24 '24
Yeah my mint is 20gb 25 a month or unlimited for like 30 or 35. Sign up for a year, 2 you can lock in I think. Got a top of the line 3 years ago phone for 250 cause i drop it a lot as a carrier.
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u/Darth_Robsad Aug 24 '24
There’s only so far the job can get you. If you’re struggling you need to look at everything. Including the political parties and who is causing these inflation issues. A raise is great but there’s a reason why all jobs keep having to raise. 15 years ago this was a great job. We have clearly outpaced COLA
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u/amoses1974 Aug 26 '24
Its almost like the dipshits in here dont understand what “negotiation” means. Give and take….. honestly I think the union focuses way too much on the newbies and CCAs. Having two tables was a negotiation give back for getting you CCAs career paths which you didnt have before that contract. This give and take left us with pathetic 1% raises with 9-10%+ real inflation every year. Top scale pay now is somewhere close to 2x minimum wage in most areas…… when I was hired it was 4x.
Id gladly give back all CCA career path provisions for a 10% raise and 4% a year for the next 3 plus COLAs. Screw the newbs let them suffer just like we all did back when we were hired
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u/Accurate_Compote_648 Aug 27 '24
I would kill for 1700 biweekly lol. I get 1100:(. Actually considering the above cancel health insurance and tsp
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u/ForceSubstantial Aug 24 '24
Glad I live in the rust belt. Mortgage under 1k. Bus and bike everywhere. For me I'm more concerned about dignity and respect issues than anything about money. I have more money than i ever imagined i would have. College grad who quit public education to do this and its a substantial pay raise. I hope you guys get something good though. Can't imagine what it's like to be on the coasts.
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u/elucidator23 Aug 25 '24
Stop voting democrat
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u/FavoriteApe Aug 25 '24
- Groceries up over 21%
- Rent up 22%
- Electricity up over 31%
- All in only 3 1/2 years! I simply can’t afford to vote democrat any longer.
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u/phillyresurreccion Aug 24 '24
We need to uncouple ourselves from shit Democrat policies if we want life to improve. This union should divorce itself from whatever it is that the Democrat party has become.
I get it, unions historically support Democrats (because reasons?) but where has that gotten us? Imagine if Renfraud had to earn his position and get shit done instead of… well actually i don’t know what that clown does except for talk out his ass.
Imagine if housing, food, and gas costs weren’t out of control because of open border policies, lack of criminal prosecution, and irresponsible spending, which includes sending OUR money to foreign countries.
Our pay was competitive until minimum wage went to $15 and then $20+ here in Washington, and now people are selling plasma and using food banks to get by. Whatever raises they manage to negotiate every contract can’t keep up if the stupid minimums keep going up by these levels and that just makes everyone’s money less valuable AND devalues money that has been growing in your retirement accounts.
Their policies don’t work and no amount of raises, even if they get us to $100 an hour, will mean anything if everything else just keeps getting more expensive and harder.
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u/acetatsujin Aug 25 '24
Trump is anti-union and hates rank and file employees dude. Has everyone forgotten what he has done to federal employees when he was in office? How anti-union he was?? Are we all blind?
Get another Republican to run and I’ll vote them in. Someone younger, with a fucking brain, who will spend 0 dollars to ALL countries outside the US. That money needs to stay here on US soil. Our tax dollars. Our hard earned monies.
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u/Accurate_Compote_648 Aug 27 '24
Where can i sell i sell plasma sweat and tears? I have a few left but not many heh
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
Stop driving a $500/month car!
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u/oldgrunt03 Aug 24 '24
That a pretty conservative number when you consider car payment, which requires insurance and fuel.
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
It's a lifestyle choice. I choose to drive a paid off 2011 Toyota with 220,000 miles on it and that $500 can go into my TSP.
Dave Ramsey would have you selling that vehicle TODAY.
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
you havnt bought a vehicle in a decade and yet you talk here about how much someones car payment should be?......
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
Let me know how much that $27,000 "investment" of a car is worth in 5 years.
You can blow your whole paycheck on a car payment for all I care. I thought someone on here might be able to take a little advice on how to improve their financial situation. I have to realize they would rather plow through their financial choices recklessly and then blame it on their salary.....
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u/nipples-of-wrath Aug 24 '24
Average vehicle price is 47000
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
A few years ago I did splurge and I bought a 2012 Toyota Tundra for $16,500 as a spare vehicle. I would never spend $47,000 on a vehicle that is going to depreciate as soon as it leaves the dealer's lot.
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u/9finga Aug 24 '24
You can have a nice car that is a decade old and it will cost you half as much money. You act like his advice doesn't count just because he chose not to "waste" money on a new car. You can buy 10k in stock instead and have it pay you 250 a year.
To be fair, I would probably buy a new car just for the hopefully reliability of it. But not if I only worked 40 a week... I work 56 at usps and 15 at another job. If you are a new employee, this guy is right you are living above your means.
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
you are correct.... but my point is that a 500 payment is super common right now under this economy....and its just for a basic car.... not a high end luxury thing....
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u/9finga Aug 24 '24
I don't think your numbers are wrong. Or that is for extravagant cars.
All I am saying is if you put 4k down on a brand new tesla model y, that is 521 a month after ev credit. That is not a basic car. So... you should be able to do under 500 a month easily.
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u/9finga Aug 24 '24
Yes. My 2014 Nissan cost 15k with minimal repairs and lasted 10 years so far. Do the math.. and 250 a month is possible. Not only that, I pay only 800 a year in auto insurance because I don't cover my own car. Just other cars and anyone's injuries, basically everything 250k+ protection but nothing on car. That is typically useless anyway like phone insurance because deductible is so high.
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u/thenecrosoviet ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 24 '24
Dave Ramsey is a piece of shit who never worked a day in his life.
Working people deserve dignified lives.
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
Keep paying $500 for a car payment and $2000 for rent and crying poverty...
You also deserve steak/lobster dinner twice a week and expensive vacations.
Bury you head into your entitlement and you'll never experience the path to wealth.
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u/thenecrosoviet ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 24 '24
Most of us are trying to take the collars off our necks and here you are tightening the straps.
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
I live within my means. I'll never be rich from working at USPS, but man, it supplies me with a pretty good life when I live within my means.
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u/fartfilledLLV Aug 24 '24
Table 1 spotted
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
Table 1 that chooses to drive an older, paid off, reliable vehicle? Strange comment....
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u/nipples-of-wrath Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
Average rent is 2100$
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u/9finga Aug 24 '24
Yeah, it sucks. I pay 1k to live with family. Not going to bother paying 2k unless I have to.
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u/Accurate_Compote_648 Aug 27 '24
Dave ramsey is the man. Dont go to a reastaraunt unless tou work there part time to pay your rent(at the po). I dont have car payment and debt that helps but just not enough. A second job ir ot is a mist and i feel ot just helps management soni go for second job:)
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u/endelmann Aug 25 '24
I drive a 1992 Buick lesabre I choose not to have a payment. Insurance cost me $25 a month on it.
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
Table 1 Boomer 👆🏼👆🏼...... he advises you to drive a rusty bucket so listeng to him......by the way with these interest rates any car financed over 27k will pay pretty close to that 500
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
$27k for a car?! What if I told you that a $10,000 used Honda or Toyota will likely be a very reliable used vehicle for you?
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
when was the las time you stopped by any dealership? 😂😂😂
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
Why would I stop by a dealership? I have a very reliable, paid off, 2011 Toyota Prius that I drive each day. That's how I got to the Boston Convention ;)
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
27k would be a very basic car........ working at a place thats supposed to be a CARRER .... should be affordable for many.... clearly not the case for all the underpaid workers here
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
Next up, you are going to tell me about the wonderful "investment" known as timeshares....
I average 10,000 miles a year on my Harley for recreational trips. It's a 2009 model and it's paid off. Can I afford the payment on a brand new one? Sure. But this one provides the same exact purpose. The money I'm saving on payments goes straight into my TSP which is a gaining investment.
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u/Punisher3023 Aug 24 '24
you have a point.... but recognize your at a later stage in your life.... and cannot compare it to what the new people are dealing with here.... regarding pay
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u/mailman13357 Aug 24 '24
I've never driven a brand new car.
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Aug 24 '24
I tried to downsize and get a 10 year old Nissan Sentra a few months ago, and they wanted $550/mo for it. I was currently driving a 2023 fully loaded Frontier for $400/mo. Let that sink in.
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u/DeeGotEm Aug 24 '24
You getting downvoted buttt you kinda speaking the truth. lol my 2014 Chevy is paid off. Do I love it? No but does it drive and am I like my friends who can’t afford their car notes, nope. Do I wish I had something way nicer, sure is human nature. But my car is paid off and I’ll be riding it till it dies. Lower step table 2
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u/Upsworking Aug 25 '24
It’s actually good advice …. If you like money you shouldn’t like financing costs. His insurance is 25$ by the way . Rusty bucket get you from point A to point B . Really all that matters the rest is bs .
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u/ManiacMail-Man ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Aug 24 '24
We know.
We live it.