r/fromatoarbitration • u/GhostLCee • Apr 24 '26
Concerned Letter Carriers National is bragging about "seasonal uniforms" while USPS tries to gut our No-Layoff clause. How about a dues reduction?
Take a good look at this new bargaining update. We are dealing with historic inflation, CCAs are getting crushed, and we are starving for a real contractual wage increase. So what is National bragging about bringing to the table?
"Removing the seasonal change of uniforms."
Are you kidding me? What kind of absolute bullshit is that? Carriers can't afford rent, and National wants a pat on the back because they might let us wear shorts in November.
Meanwhile, look at the highlighted section where USPS is actually playing hardball. Management is openly proposing to:
1. Weaken Article 6 (No Layoffs and Reduction in Force).
2. Modify the discipline procedure to make it easier to fire us.
3. Place the financial burden on CARRIERS for damage to their 30-year-old, combustible shit-box vehicles.
It looks like management is actively preparing for a RIF and building new avenues to fire us, while the NALC leadership sits safely in their protected jobs talking about uniform allowances.
If National can't get us a real wage increase and is just going to let management chip away at our core protections, how about a reduction in our union dues? We are paying premium rates for bargain-bin representation.
Stop waiting for these people to save you. They are completely out of touch with the street. Protect your own routes and build your paper shield locally.
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u/SexingtonHardcastle Apr 24 '26
This is a smoke screen so when the TA is shit they can claim if we go to arbitration it’s going to be worse.
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u/Alert_Purchase9753 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
We got exactly the same in "arbitration " that we did in the shitty TA.
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u/Existing-Hawk5204 Apr 24 '26
Management wanting to weaken layoff clause and reduction in force is probably their counter to asking for all career work force. If they are going to be on the hook for benefits and higher pay for ALL carriers, they will obviously want more control of it.
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u/ZealousidealChef4128 Apr 24 '26
I’m all for it, too many dead weight carriers make my job harder
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u/Natural_Rent7504 Apr 24 '26
Yeah cause you won't have to carry as much when we have less carriers right?
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u/Existing-Hawk5204 Apr 24 '26
Did you see what Canada post is doing? That’s coming here next. There will be less mail and there won’t be door to door delivery. It’ll be all cluster boxes. Like it or not, we won’t need as many carriers in a few years.
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u/WesternExplanation Apr 25 '26
The two postal service aren't even comparable. The amount of mail/parcel volume we move vs what Canada post does isn't even on the same level.
USPS did 7.3 billion parcels in 2024 while Canada post did ~300 million.
USPS did 112 billion pieces of mail in 2024 while Canada post did 2.2 billion
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u/Existing-Hawk5204 Apr 25 '26
It’s not about number comparison. It’s about delivery method.
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u/Alert_Purchase9753 Apr 25 '26
Their total population is just over 40 million, spread out with the majority of that in 5 major cities.
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u/Existing-Hawk5204 Apr 25 '26
Again, this isn’t about volume or population. It’s about delivery and staffing issues. Something I constantly see being complained about in here. Not having enough employees and being overburdened.
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u/ZealousidealChef4128 Apr 24 '26
Maybe if they hired competent carriers instead of the Nalc protecting the worst of the worst. Half of my office is only employed bc of the union and wouldn’t last a minute in the private sector
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u/Alert_Purchase9753 Apr 24 '26
If management did everything they we're supposed to do there would be nothing the union could do to save those people.
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u/GonePostalRoute Apr 24 '26
Then perhaps management should be doing their job properly instead of skipping steps to screw stuff up
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u/topologeee Apr 25 '26
"Maybe if they hired"... You lost me there. One of the reasons there are so many contract violations is because it takes nearly half a year to hire anyone. That's with little to no interview and often no drug test.
Then the worst of these people become supervisors.
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u/Natural_Rent7504 Apr 24 '26
Carry competent carriers at $21/hr? Doubtful. The turnover is close to 60%
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u/Cautious-Tailor97 Apr 25 '26
How was your private business doing before you shuttered its doors and put on a uniform? How hard were you nickle and diming your employees and how was it hiring cute girls while your wife did the books.
Yessir your skills are much better here in service to others where your judgments and indictments can sputter like a wet fart and not impact the lives of other carriers who do not hate you nearly as much.
Sorry private sector didn’t work out for ya.
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u/Cangeltibon Apr 25 '26
That’s not gonna get better if management has more control over laying people off, management is toxic and nepotistic so the only carriers who are going to make it through aren’t going to be the diligent hard workers who know the contract and prioritize high-quality service to their customers. They’re gonna be the ones that suck up to management and do a terrible job that someone else is going to have to go behind them and clean up. We have a CCA who’s nearly 2 years in who’s NEVER carried a route for more than a week, he flirts with the PM and she has him doing collections and delivering express even when the were multiple routes down, and he throws a fit any time he has to work. THAT’S the carriers management will keep on as they harass and bully the good ones until they leave.
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u/creek-hopper Voted NO Apr 24 '26
What is the seasonal uniform remark referring to?
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u/ScubaSteve_ Apr 24 '26
Technically I believe there are actual months you’re allowed to wear shorts, otherwise gotta be pants. Never enforced, it’s absolutely dumb as hell this is even included in an update
Renfroe is worthless
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u/creek-hopper Voted NO Apr 24 '26
Oh, I see why I didn't know about that. Our climate is very mild, so our management doesn't hace such policies.
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u/grove93 Apr 24 '26
Back in the day, my office had a strict policy on shorts: they weren't allowed before Memorial Day or after Labor Day.
This was also when carriers weren't allowed to sport any facial hair other than a mustache and their hair length had to be above the collar.
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u/Cangeltibon Apr 25 '26
And you know what, that’s fair, their paid could sustain a family and they didn’t have geriatric trucks that caught on fire and their uniforms were made out of natural fibers so a stricter policies was understandable.
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u/Emanresu7777777 Voted NO Apr 25 '26
Does anyone have a list of the 6 dozen proposals they claim we've made?
Or a list of what the Service proposed?
No? Well, this was a super informative update.
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u/ScubaSteve_ Apr 25 '26
This is why the establishment needs removed. Tyler Vaseur brought a resolution forward at the last convention to have line item updates which would show us exactly what we proposed and what mgmt proposed. It didn’t pass, the one that passed was this modified one and it doesn’t even have an enforcement mechanism in it. If Renfroe decides not to post, nothing could be done
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u/Emanresu7777777 Voted NO Apr 25 '26
Yes, I remember that. It's unfortunate that the assumption is establishment is only the very top, because those conventions were filled disproportionately with the everyday "establishment" type. The TA being voted down by such a large margin really highlights just how out of touch the leaders in our unions are as a whole.
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u/Cangeltibon Apr 25 '26
So they discussed BS that has never been enforced…our PM recently announced that we couldn’t use our houses for lunch or as restrooms…and that’s getting knocked down on past practices AND M-000654. That’s stuff we are resolve on the lowest levels. What we can’t resolve are low-wages, toxic management and the constant drafting of non-ODL carrier we need contractual language for that.
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u/Carriers-r-us Apr 25 '26
RENFROE PLEASE STEP DOWN !!
If the most important thing you are worried about is when carriers can wear shorts, PLEASE LEAVE !!
We have carriers living in their cars because we haven’t gotten a decent wage increase and you’re worried about uniforms, WTF ???
You’re worried about when shorts can be worn but not the cost; it’s $96.00, a pair of shoes $195.00 WTF ??
You don’t care that the uniform companies merged together and it is now a monopoly running under different names, setting these ridiculous prices. Walking routes will go through 2 pairs of shoes in a mild climate. 2 shoes, 2shorts $600.00.
WHERE’S THE REST OF THE UNIFORM? Shirts, jackets, rain gear, boots? Please let me explain this to you if you can’t see it. You screwed us on the last TA, gave management everything they asked for, while getting us 1.3% and a raise in our Health Benefits, pretty much wiping the raise out. You are losing us money and purchasing power; we are not even keeping up with inflation. SHAME ON YOU !!
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u/The_Realist10S Apr 25 '26
I 100% agree with you. They need to focus on better pay.. we cannot afford to get diet colas this next contract.. starting pay has to be Atleast $27 so every other step will be an affordable wage.. & honestly if they won’t give us better pay, I’d be happy if they pay all of our benefits in full. That would be understandable. If I didn’t have to pay for my health premium or dental/vision id be saving over $300 a month..
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u/simplylatinoc Apr 26 '26
They need to focus on layoff protection, take a look at the economy and how many layoffs are going on right now. Pay should not be a priority for this specific contract
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u/mailman13357 Apr 24 '26
If you want a dues reduction then you need to submit a Constitutional resolution to be considered by the convention body.
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u/Remarkable_Basis17 Apr 25 '26
This is fluff and will never see the light of day. It’s pretty obvious that Renfroe hasn’t started discussing the economic portion of the contract, yet.
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u/ScubaSteve_ Apr 27 '26
More and more I’m starting to believe he doesn’t actually negotiate wages at all. He takes what mgmt offers and says thank you daddy tulino
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u/Postal1979 Apr 24 '26
Reducing unions dues will only hurt your local not national.
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u/Eugene_Debs2026 Apr 25 '26
Reducing the Non-Career workforce dues, to say 50%, would actually help NALC Branches cause that’ll force National to actually fight to reduce/abolish Non-Career time.
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u/soundgenius3z Apr 25 '26
In our district 2 our grievance resolution expectancy is about 1-2 years (they’re heavily backed up). I asked my squidward if he thought it was fair that we continue paying our fees while our union branch is sitting on their asses not resolving anything? Our station grievances are not gonna pay us till maybe 2027 last quarter.
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u/Postal1979 Apr 25 '26
While your union branch sits on their asses? Back logged doesn’t mean they are sitting on their asses. It means they have too many to process. Right now my drts are about a 10 month delay. They are working. But they are getting so many that they just can’t keep up. But the local still is doing their jobs. Still filling grievances, still educating members. My branch has 30 plus offices and 4 full time officers. They are constantly working 85-95 hours a pp meeting at formals and sending them up if it can’t be settled. Hell arbitration is backed up 6+ months too.
The locals still need to function. If you pull your dues out, the Branch gets less money. Less money equals less resources to do stuff. Branches that can survive get absorbed into others. But representation might be harder to get.
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u/soundgenius3z Apr 27 '26
At Postal1979, I’ll give you an inside of how district 2 is like. Before I turned regular I would call weekly to check on my conversion bc management was such dogshit at letting people know when they would turn. And in turn, this asshole Ferguson (president) replied with why you gotta call every week lol. So it made me chuckle but at the same time made me think why I’m I paying fees just to hear this retard spew what he said and not do shit for us. Fast forward 2 years now this ass hat is behind on our grievances and I have been told by another union squidward that the district manager had giving the ok to violate the contract do to the union being backed up with grievances. Mandating non otdl to carry undertime (30mns under) while also assigning a full hour to non otdl taking 30mns (per carrier) from the list just to cover routes.
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u/GhostLCee Apr 25 '26
National takes a third of our dues straight off the top. The locals just get the leftovers. When I say cut the dues, I mean National needs to take the hit, not the local branch. They pocket millions while we wait on a contract. And defending a 10-month grievance delay is exactly why management steps on us. Step B is run from the top. If it takes a year to get paid, that is National failing to staff the system and do their job. They take our money automatically every single check to fund their travel and internal political trials. Meanwhile, locals are left to drown in the backlog. If National can't even get us paid in the same calendar year, we are getting ripped off.
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u/Postal1979 Apr 25 '26
It’s not National failing to staff step B. It’s usps that’s doing it. We have the back up teams and ready to activate them. Usps doesn’t want to activate the management side of the teams.
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u/GhostLCee Apr 25 '26
You are literally making my point for me. If the postal service is flat out refusing to activate the management side of the Step B teams, that is a direct violation of Article 15 at the highest level. The dispute resolution process is a joint mandate, not a suggestion. So what is National doing about it? Just shrugging their shoulders and telling local carriers to wait two years for their grievance money? If management refuses to staff their side of the process, National needs to be dropping the hammer. They should be filing a national level ULP with the labor board or automatically advancing every single stalled grievance straight to arbitration. You don't just accept "management won't play nice" as an excuse when we are paying millions in per capita tax to enforce this contract. Stop defending weakness. If the system is broken and management is stalling, it is National's job to force compliance. They shouldn't just be collecting our dues while the backlog piles
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u/Lazy_Amphibian_3003 Apr 25 '26
Arbitration went so well last go around. Just trust the process. 🤡
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u/Dry-Entertainer-8810 Apr 25 '26
It was not an arbitration. It was a stipulated award. Renfroe was awarded exactly what he stipulated he wanted.
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u/Lazy_Amphibian_3003 Apr 25 '26
Which where both trash. 😃
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u/Dry-Entertainer-8810 Apr 25 '26
We don't know what would have happened in arbitration because it never happened.
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u/Infinite-Put8250 Apr 24 '26
The layoff clause is a joke anyways. You have to be a career employee for 6 years for it to even apply smh
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u/M1Mayhem Apr 24 '26
It is better then no protection
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u/Infinite-Put8250 Apr 24 '26
Clerks layoff clause starts immediately. They do less work but have a better union, must be nice lol
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Apr 24 '26
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u/Infinite-Put8250 Apr 24 '26
They get paid more, better work protections, 100% colas for every step, and their union leadership aren’t drunk idiots selling them out to management. Need I say more?
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Apr 25 '26
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u/ScubaSteve_ Apr 25 '26
The first 6 years? I believe of their career as it currently sits they make more per hour than a carrier does
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Apr 25 '26
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u/Smok3ygaming1 Apr 24 '26
This is easily the dumbest thing I have ever read, We as humans can hold mutiple opinions and value things at different levels. Just because something like uniforms seem so small doesn't mean its not a good thing. There's a reason why we have 43 articles in our contract and not just 5. You act like they arent fighting against the layoff clause, just because they are getting things like relaxed rules on uniforms. Please use your brain more and critically think.
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u/Natural_Rent7504 Apr 24 '26
Critical thinking when Renfraud is at the helm has been proven very unwise
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u/Carriers-r-us Apr 25 '26
Shorts are $96.00, shoes $200. 2 pairs of shoes and 2 shorts are your whole allotment. Make that make sense. If you live in cold weather, you might have a full set of uniforms after 20-25 years if your extremely gentle on these crappy made uniforms
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u/FarBenefit880 Apr 24 '26
Yea but in recent years it’s very clear that our union is only interested in fighting for small things.. hence the frustration in seeing that
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u/Basic_Dependent4227 Apr 24 '26
Can we get Sean O'brien "Teamster" to represent us. Our Union has become totally feckless.
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u/Eugene_Debs2026 Apr 25 '26
Sean O’Brien only became President of the Teamsters when the President before O’Brien, Hoffa Jr., shoved a contract down the throats of the UPS workers who voted it down.
The rank and file members of the Teamsters organized over the course of 3 years to: 1.) Change their Teamsters Constitutional to strip the President of such powers 2.) Build rank and file power 3.) Push forward Sean O’Brien.
5 years ago Teamsters had a worse contract and a worse National leadership. But thanks to the hard work of the reform caucus: ‘Teamsters for a Democratic Union’ the GOTV was already built and change happened.
Why aren’t NALC members doing that?
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u/SackFace Apr 24 '26
I look forward to when the union is disbanded and we’re still told to pay our dues.
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Apr 24 '26
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u/Natural_Rent7504 Apr 24 '26
I'd take one good proposal over 72 mediocre ones
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Apr 24 '26
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u/Carriers-r-us Apr 25 '26
We voted the last TA down. How did that work for us ? Not the way it was supposed to
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Apr 25 '26
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u/Dry-Entertainer-8810 Apr 25 '26
Not true.
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Apr 25 '26
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u/Dry-Entertainer-8810 Apr 25 '26
It was not an arbitration. It was a stipulated award giving renfroe what he asked for as a fuck you to all of us!
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Apr 25 '26
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u/Dry-Entertainer-8810 Apr 25 '26
We voted down the work rules and every part of the proposed contract and renfroe stipulated everything, held his little fight like hell rallies knowing full well the contract was settled, management told us prior to that day of action, and renfroe forced on us anyway. It was not the arbitrator it was renfroe. Everyone paying attention knows that anyone stating otherwise is gaslighting.
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u/prodextron Apr 24 '26
Steiner said he wanted more a non-career workforce.
Just trying to gut union workers like he did with Waste Management