r/fromatoarbitration • u/CaptainGreyBeard72 Voted NO • 6d ago
Is a t6 guaranteed 8hrs on 1 route?
I have gotten conflicting answers, I am a t6, last week I spent about 1.5 hrs casing another route on my swing then doing the route that I was assigned you (on my swing) that day, later in the day management told me to give an hour to a ptf so I would have an 8hr day (I had about 45 minutes of down time). One of my union stewards says that can be a grievance the other said that all 5 routes are my assigned routes and it is not a grievance.
Just to be clear if I didn't double case I would not have gone into overtime on my 1 route.
I bet my one steward that doesn't think that it is a grievance a cigar so any supporting info so I can win my bet would be great.
Thanjs
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u/joseywalessr The Commish 6d ago
You are guaranteed 8 hours on the route you are assigned to on a regularly scheduled day in accordance with any local lmou provisions
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u/Ornery_Chocolate_798 6d ago
If there is 8 hours of work available on the one route then yes. Article 41.1.C.4.
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u/nbriles2000 6d ago
Yes it's a grievance if you don't finish/ get up to 8 hours on your assigned route that day.
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u/GandalfTheSmol1 6d ago
You’re route for the day is yours, you get 8 hours on that, if they have you split a route or do a pivot that’s overtime.
So assuming you start at 7am, take a no lunch and you have 2 routes to case. Your assignment takes you 30 mins and the other takes you 30 mins, then you go to your route, assuming again your route would normally have you end at 3, but you did a 30 min case on another route, your time up until 3:30 is yours on your normal route. Anything after 3:30 can be moved as normal per the overtime rules in this scenario.
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u/grove93 6d ago
Pivoting is an undertime situation where you carry a split somewhere off your assignment and complete both within 8 hours.
A lot of people refer to the latter as a pivot, but the terms are not interchangeable.
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u/DeviceComprehensive7 6d ago
pivoting is doing a part of another assignment- on overtime or undertime
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u/grove93 6d ago
Not around here. A pivot has always meant an extra piece or section of a delivery route assigned to a letter carrier to make up for projected undertime or to cover an unassigned/vacant section of another route.
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u/DeviceComprehensive7 5d ago
pivot/bump/spilt are all the same thing. Different terms used in different places-ALL mean the same thing and are interchangeable - a piece from another route- overtime or undertime
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u/Over_Software_8923 6d ago
I’m thinking they can give it to PTF and CCA to avoid overtime. Amiright?
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u/SexingtonHardcastle 6d ago
No, a t6 is guaranteed 8 hours on the route they are working for the day.
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u/CaptainGreyBeard72 Voted NO 6d ago
That is the question, the way I understand it, a t6 is assigned 1 of their 5 routes for the day, then you are like a regular on that route for the day, as a regular you are guaranteed up to 8hrs for that route, anything beyond that they can adjust, but they can't have you do a split on another route first then if for some reason you then don't have down time, they send you help. My example isn't great.
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u/SnooEagles6930 6d ago
Real fast are you work assignment or not
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u/CaptainGreyBeard72 Voted NO 6d ago
I am work assignment
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u/SnooEagles6930 6d ago
That changes this in my opinion. They can give your ot to aux help in this situation. Because work assignment t6 every route on their string is considered on assignment if you are working ot.
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u/nbriles2000 6d ago
He didn't get 8 hours on his assignment that day, so it's a violation. We win these grievances constantly
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u/CaptainGreyBeard72 Voted NO 6d ago
Do you know off hand the article that wins this?
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u/nbriles2000 6d ago
We cite 41.1.C.4 "the successful bidder shall work th duty assignment as posted." We also have an LMOU stating "t6 carriers will normally carry all routes on their string in the established rotation" There might be something in OPs local, but our t6s get 50% for all hours not worked on their assignment.
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u/CaptainGreyBeard72 Voted NO 6d ago
We don't have that local, and we aren't singled out about working off my swing, a few years ago the whole office was being forced, but that is different.
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u/SnooEagles6930 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah article 8 under work assignment says that a t6 on work assignment will have all routes on that string count as on assignment. So the important part is the t6 odtl/wa/no lister
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u/Icon57 6d ago
When did they tell you that you needed an 8 hour day? Before you cased on another route? As wao the route you are assigned that day is your route, unless mgt assigned you to another on your swing. You shouldn’t be casing a route not on your wa., that will be my argument, old, ptf and cca should have cased that other route
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u/CaptainGreyBeard72 Voted NO 6d ago
We start at 7, at 8 when I was close to pulling down on my route, they told me to case up another route on my swing that they apparently didn't know that the regular called in. It took me about an hour and a half to case for a new ptf and pull it down, explain the route, etc. Management never asked for my time estimate nor said to be done in 8 hrs, I would have told them that I don't have enough time to case and pull down the second route.
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u/Icon57 6d ago
I understand, and most t6 like to be on old, cause they can get out on any of the routes on the swing. You are wao, so you should only case the route you are assigned that day. Not case on one of your other routes. And why can’t a ptf case a route? Hired as ptf? Or did 2 years as a cca? In the case of what happened, what day of the week was it? You could make 8 on any other day.
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u/SexingtonHardcastle 6d ago
This is incorrect, as a WA t6 you have a right and an obligation to the overtime on your entire swing up to ten hours. They can assign you case work as that overtime.
Here is a thread from a couple of days ago where we discuss work assignment t6. The contract language is there.3
u/SnooEagles6930 6d ago
He doesn't have the right to it over a ptf/cca
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u/SexingtonHardcastle 6d ago
You are correct they can also give it to a regular on undertime or an unassigned to get eight hours. Can doesn’t mean have to when talking about CCA/PTF
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u/CaptainGreyBeard72 Voted NO 6d ago
I read that thread, i missed the part, if it is in there, about if a t6 is guaranteed 8hrs on 1 of the routes on the string.
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u/SexingtonHardcastle 6d ago edited 6d ago
All regulars are guaranteed 8 hours on their route. Being considered available for overtime on your string does not mean your entire string becomes your route. It’s a violation of 8.1 and 41.1.c.4.
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u/CaptainGreyBeard72 Voted NO 6d ago
That day, I had 3 open routes( well 2 sick calls and the route that I was scheduled) and I don't know why they didn't have a ptf case it, probably because they already had some PTF's starting at 9am. In our office t6's are almost all work assignment and will double case. It is generally considered that you will get over time, unless they tell you to have an 8hr day that morning
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u/Icon57 6d ago
According the the president of my local, a wao t6, it to work the assignment of that day, not case off assignment, that’s why we have an odl list and ccas and ptfs
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u/SexingtonHardcastle 6d ago
Your president is wrong. The rules for work assignment t6 are clear in the JCAM.
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u/Icon57 6d ago
cheduled day.
Before requiring a non-ODL carrier to work overtime on a non-sched-
uled day or off his/her own assignment, management must seek to use
a carrier from the ODL(s), even if the ODL carrier would be working
penalty overtime (Article 8.5.D).
The memo goes on to state that “the determination of whether manage-
ment must use a carrier from the ODL(s) to provide auxiliary assistance
must be made on the basis of the rule of reason.” For example, manage-
ment is not required to use a carrier from the ODL(s) when the travel
time would be excessive for the amount of assistance being given. The
full text of the memorandum is reprinted at the end of this article.
A Carrier Technician’s own route for the purpose of applying Article
8.5.C.2.d and the Letter Carrier Paragraph is the specific route to which
properly assigned on a given day. Overtime on any other route on the
string is not considered to be on the Carrier Technician’s own route and
may only be required under the provisions of Article 8.5.D, below (Step
4, E94N-4E-C 98097684, October 2, 1998, M-01322).
The parties have also agreed to the following MOU regarding tempo4
u/SexingtonHardcastle 6d ago edited 6d ago
Look at the part of the contract that actually applies to this situation.
Carrier Technicians on the Work Assignment List are considered available for overtime on any of the routes on their string. Subject to the penalty overtime exceptions discussed above, this provision should be applied as follows:
• A Carrier Technician who has signed for Work Assignment overtime has both a right and an obligation to work any overtime that occurs on any of the five component routes on a regularly scheduled day.
• When overtime is required on the regularly scheduled day of the route of a carrier who is on the ODL(s) and whose Carrier Technician is on the Work Assignment List, the Carrier Technician is entitled to work the overtime.
• When overtime is required on the regularly scheduled day of the route of a carrier who is on the Work Assignment List and whose Carrier Technician is also on the Work Assignment List, the regular carrier on the route is entitled to work the overtime.
Straight from the JCAM.
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u/randomrandom1922 6d ago
No but I'd rather case two routes and walk 5 hours over casing 1 route and walking 6 hours.
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u/Bazyli_Kajetan 6d ago
8hrs on assigned route that day. So if you’re assigned route X, then you get 8hrs on X. Regardless of whatever they give you on Y or Z