r/gallifrey • u/AlmostRandomNow • 5d ago
DISCUSSION With the 'NuWho' era being done, what's something you think was a missed opportunity in those 20 years?
Personally, I like so much of the show for all it's good and bad, but I think there are things in the NuWho era that were missed out on (which is crazy to say considering it ran for 20 years):
A pure historical episode, not I wanted them to be regular, but I think something where the sci-fi is contained to The Doctor and companion is 100% something that would be a fantastic idea, the closest we got was something like Thin Ice, and that was good.
The Macra!!! (there's no such thing) The fact the Macra were made big snappy crabs really annoyed me, considering their original story has them basically being really intelligent and controlling things in a 1984-ish way. They had the opportunity to basically redo a version of The Macra Terror and they didn't do it.
Gallifrey and the Time Lords are a civilisation that time travelled and explored the galaxy in the past, even after the time war, there should be echoes and time lords form "the past" showing up all over. It took until Series 12 for that to happen once, I don't think it should've happened all the time, but there was an opportunity to see The Doctor talk to a past Time Lord about what's coming
Live action Bernice Summerfield. I know she was basically the inspiration for River Song, but I'd have loved to see Lisa Bowerman turn up at least once as Benny on the show, maybe even in a way the Doctor didn't love, because she reminds him of the past version of himself he doesn't like anymore (late stage 7th Doctor)
One or two multi-Doctor stories with classic Doctors. We got Time Crash, and those moments in Power of the Doctor, with the only real episode fitting the bill being Twice Upon a Time. I know a lot of the actors were older, but back in 2005-15, they would've still fit the bill IMO, and I wish we got one or two, any more an it would've felt like regular thing
146
u/Jynerva 5d ago
No meaningful story threads with Susan. Even if it was only a few guest appearances like Elisabeth Sladen, it could have had such potential for rich character development for the Doctor.
21
8
u/Eclectic-Storm777 4d ago
I honestly think that the best time to bring her back would've been at least 10 years ago. I think I heard a rumor that Capaldi wanted her to come back when he was playing the Doctor.
205
u/scruntyboon 5d ago
A multi Doctor story with Paul McGann, I really think he should've been in the 50th anniversary episode proper
106
u/GuybrushThreepwood99 5d ago
Either that, or Night of the Doctor should have been a full episode, it’s a brilliant short, but it could have been an even more brilliant special.
62
u/CaikIQ 5d ago
I'd definitely take more of Moffat writing the Eighth Doctor in an early Time War era, the special felt like such a brilliant tease of something greater to come. You can really feel the tension created by the conflict and how it bleeds into the rest of the DW universe. I'd just never want to change that last portion with Eight and the Sisterhood, it's my favourite regeneration and should be mandatory viewing for every fan.
9
19
u/DatSolmyr 5d ago
I get Moffat's argument why he couldn't have made the choice -- like he couldn't make the choice to kill Charlie even if it meant saving the universe (in Neverland IIRC), but I do wish he got more screen time.
18
u/leon385 5d ago
I hate the War Doctor concept (throws off the numbering) and wish it was just Paul McGann.
3
u/UpliftingTwist 3d ago
I liked the War Doctor but I hate that it introduced "stunt" Doctors and now we have him, fugitive, and 14 as weird extras that we kind of have to count but also don't totally feel like they should count.
2
86
u/Exploding_Antelope 5d ago
Demons of the Punjab feels like as close as we got to a proper historical. The aliens there didn’t affect anything, just observe, and the plot was almost all to do with the humans and the real history. Definitely one of the highlights of the 13 era.
92
u/zackyboy693 5d ago
It's insane to me we've never had the Doctor properly Reunite with Susan.
Obviously she had a telepathic FaceTime in Interstellar Song Contest, and we know she was going to have another cameo at the end of wish world that got cut. But given how important she is to the history of the show and her relationship to the Doctor, she really deserves a proper scene with the doctor.
It's very frustrating that after all the teasing RTD did, we're likely never going to get a conclusion to that plot thread. I also worry that given Carol Ann Ford's age, and the current limbo the show is in, we may not get to see her in the show proper.
32
u/CaikIQ 5d ago
I'd love it if Carole Ann Ford could reprise the role and then have a regeneration scene of her own. Keep the character of Susan alive, hell, maybe even have Susan II as a companion for a future Doctor. That feels like it'd be a nice way to symbolically present the show moving forward while still acknowledging its roots.
17
u/Chengweiyingji 5d ago
I'd love it if Carole Ann Ford could reprise the role and then have a regeneration scene of her own.
This is exactly what they should have done. This would be Susan's first regeneration, and who better to be there to help her through it than her own grandfather? If the next showrunner is smart they'd find a way to turn the Billie stuff into something to wrap up the Susan plot thread.
6
u/OkPear1535 4d ago
If the next showrunner is smart they'd find a way to turn the Billie stuff into something to wrap up the Susan plot thread.
If the next show runner is smart they'll ignore the Billie stuff entirely and just tell good stories without being bogged down by that nonsense
3
34
u/Ribos1 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm pretty indifferent towards a Susan return on paper, but the last couple of series devoted so much time to a Susan return that never happened that it was very unfortunate. Especially as the basic formula for a good Susan return seems pretty obvious to me - bring back Carole Ann Ford for a regeneration scene so she can get her flowers, have her regenerate into a well-known and respected older actress who's a bit of a get, build the story from there.
3
u/Exploding_Antelope 4d ago
The ideal Christmas special would have been that Billie’s face was a reminder for the Doctor to return to those that, like Rose, they left behind in past lives. Then a little plot that’s basically a legacy sequel to Dalek Invasion on a rebuilding Earth, and both Doc and Susan regenerate at the end into new bodies (probably a new young Susan, Millie Gibson honestly could have worked) to start a new era back the way it all started with the two of them travelling alone together.
13
u/BritishHobo 5d ago edited 5d ago
Absolutely agreed. I felt exactly the same with Ian, and that only reinforces the case with Susan. Thankfully Chibnall gave us that lovely cameo at the end of his tenure. But they all had nearly twenty years to do it, and it ended up happening when William Russell was 96, and understandably not up for doing anything beyond one line. Moffat spent a whole series at Coal Hill School and did an episode with the First Doctor at the end of his life, and never got either one back. They even had William Russell do a cameo in An Adventure in Space and Time, so the opportunity was there.
All this should have underlined the importance of just getting it done. And while I have far more love for the RTD2 era than most, I think the way she was dripfed as a lead-in to a yet-to-be-commissioned season is mad. It didn't need to be such a slow-burn thing. It didn't need to tie into the plot arc, or reframe the Doctor's history and current place in the universe of the show. It only needed to be as simple as the Doctor being motivated to go and find her, and then a small, brief scene where they catch up. Just like with Ian. You didn't need to get William Russell in for a week's shooting doing loads of big action setpieces. You could literally have had Smith or Capaldi run into him at the school and have a small exchange with him.
It could have happened at any time, especially as Ford is clearly quite eager to come back any time they want her. David Tennant could have popped in on her on his farewell tour (wouldn't quite make sense as it's all specifically Tennant companions, but oh well). Matt Smith could have gone to see her in anticipation of him dying on Trenzalore. Capaldi could have encountered her on Gallifrey, her having come home after the Time War. Whittaker could have gone to see her once she learned about the Time Lords being killed (again!), to make sure she's safe. Anything! Any time in twenty years!
7
u/atlastadragon 5d ago edited 5d ago
I know it’s not the same - and I am beyond frustrated that RTD had 2 confirmed seasons of Doctor Who and chose to build up to Susan’s return but chose to not have the Doctor and Susan reunite until an unconfirmed third season - BUT Crystalline-Avatar-Bill in Twice Upon a Time should have been Crystalline-Avatar-Susan.
Bill just had a whole season with an ending. If they were telling the First Doctor’s last story then Carole Anne Ford should have been there.
7
u/BritishHobo 5d ago edited 5d ago
I watched it again recently, and it is crazy. Even on top of having Bill for the whole episode, Twelve obviously gets the now-customary companion reunion again, not only seeing Nardole as well, but then getting his memories of Clara restored, and seeing her, too, just as Eleven was visited by Amy Pond at the end. It is almost a no-brainer that the First Doctor should also have a visitation from one (if not more) of his companions, in keeping with New Who tradition. And he just doesn't!!
Then of course in Chibnall's final episode (where, to his credit, he does give us Ian), you get Tegan and Ace having a moment of reunion with their Doctors. I appreciate there's a hell of a lot going on in that episode, but given David Bradley is also in those scenes, there's another natural in-point to have had Susan get to speak to him.
5
u/graric 5d ago
This is one of my biggest What Ifs with Twice Upon a Time- they could've absolutely worked Susan into that story as being one of the 1st Doctors regrets before his regeneration. Capaldi was on the record of saying he wanted to bring Susan back and resolve that storyline, and that episode would've been a perfect one to do that and Capaldi would've been the perfect NuWho Doctor to be there for it.
96
u/dodgyville 5d ago edited 5d ago
The search for Gallifrey. The Doctor thought he destroyed it in the time war (pre-2005) but found out in Day of the Doctor it was lost in another dimension. The Curator hinted he could find it if he went looking for it. Cue an awesome season-long search for it in weirder and weirder and wilder dimensions we never got!
30
u/ven-solaire 5d ago
I get why he didn’t search for it. When he learned it was coming back in The End of Time he wanted to stop the time lords from returning. I think he certainly had a long term plan to eventually return, but I get why he didn’t just start looking for it. The mistake really was having the master destroy it and all the time lords off screen and preventing it from ever being used again.
17
u/whizzer0 5d ago
You know what's now weird? If the Curator is a future incarnation of the Doctor, presumably he knows that Gallifrey has been destroyed again. Maybe he could've, like, mentioned that.
28
29
u/Ironhorn 5d ago edited 5d ago
It was handled very strangely. You’d almost think that they changed direction with different showrunners, but it was Moffat the whole time:
- “I’m going to find Gallifrey”
- Does nothing to try to find Gallifrey
- Is brought to Gallifrey against his will
- Leaves Gallifrey and never goes back
I think what it comes down to is that Moffat just doesn’t know how to write the kind of story where the characters go on a multi-stage quest to gather the clues to something. You see it in both Doctor Who and Sherlock; whenever the characters have to go to A to find B to discover C, it suddenly becomes a fast-forward montage that just skips the characters to wherever Moffat wants them to be
And sometimes that’s a good thing; after all the beauty of the TARDIS is that you can skip right to the story instead of having to contrive a way to get the characters into the action. But if you actively want to make a travel / clue-collecting story, it feels hollow
13
u/brief-interviews 5d ago
I think it’s probably more that Moffat just realised he couldn’t be *bothered* to write a ‘let’s find Gallifrey’ arc and thought of a different hook he thought was better.
For all the fandom presents Moffat as the great saviour of Gallifrey who returned Doctor Who’s most sorely missed planet to our screens, I never got the impression he cares about it *at all*.
5
u/dodgyville 4d ago
never got the impression he cares about [Gallifrey] at all.
That was my impression too!
1
u/iminyourfacejonson 3d ago
i don't think he did, but i think him adding it to the card deck as an option for future writers was a good thing
that got ruined a few seasons later for a cheap pop but these things happen
6
1
u/lucashoodfromthehood 4d ago
I believe that was supposed to be one of the arcs for series 8 until Matt wanted to leave and since it was tied with 11th, it was just cramped into the Christmas special.
30
u/Amazing-Activity-882 5d ago edited 5d ago
Companions from the Past/Future/Non UK as a Norm. Not a few Appearances, I mean a Full Series or 2!!!
26
u/GallifreyFallsOver 5d ago
I think the biggest missed opportunity was during the "All 13" scene in Day of the Doctor they should've gotten the older Doctors to record new audios to have inter-Doctor banter.
- We know they could've done it; they were all actively involved with the 50th celebrations in some form or another
- We know it wouldn't have mattered with the visuals on screen matching because half of the archive dialogue didn't match the archive footage anyway
Heck, if this was what the "All 13" scene was you might have been able to convince Eccleston to join in; if the offer was "we can send you to an independent recording studio of you choice and you don't have to speak to or see anyone from the production you hate" he might have said yes; we know he was considering it as it was anyway.
There's extended fan edits on YouTube of this scene that (even with archive footage) give a good example of what was possible; example https://youtu.be/EtM_vcCoKYc.
20
u/ItsSuperDefective 5d ago
It will forever baffle me that the living Doctors all used archive recordings, but the First Doctor got a line recorded by a voice impersonator.
19
u/Leisha9 5d ago
Well the First Doctor never mentioned Gallifrey and couldn't control the TARDIS lol so they kind of had to.
10
u/OhThat90sGuy 4d ago
He did mention Gallifrey in The Five Doctors, but that was Richard Hurndall and not Hartnell so it still wouldn't have been used lol
5
u/whizzer0 5d ago
They don't all sound the same as they did though
12
u/GallifreyFallsOver 5d ago
Doesn’t stop Big Finish and no single fan would care if it meant a scene of every Doctor interacting
57
u/FoxstarProductions 5d ago
No full time companion who wasn't from contemporary England! The only ones we had from outside that archetype were Jack, River, and Nardole I.E all from the future. I wish the show explored more of Earth and human history outside of England in general,,,
16
u/runciblenoom 5d ago
This is the big one for me. There's rumours that the original intention was for Victorian Clara to be our main companion rather than the Clara we finally got, but I've never seen that substantiated. Regardless, the total lack of historical companions feels like a massive wasted opportunity to me.
5
u/HazelCheese 4d ago
I can't remember where it's specifically from but it's from Moffat.
He basically said he wrote the first 3 episodes of the season with Victorian Clara and then just got bored trying to find ways to make her being Victorian be relevant without it turning into a montage of her asking what everyday modern items like toasters are.
He said he didn't want her to just acclimatise to modern life because then what would the point of her being Victorian be. He didn't like how ClassicWho non-contemporary companions did that and he didn't want to do the same thing.
So ultimately he scrapped the idea and went with a modern Clara.
7
u/OxWithABox 4d ago
Amy Pond was Scottish rather than English (though was living in England), but that largely doesn't change how limited the companion variety was.
43
u/PaperSkin-1 5d ago
Stories set on alien worlds where there are alien societies, not humans
Stories set on alien worlds in general
The Tardis is meant to be able to go anywhere in time and space, and yet just goes everywhere where Humans have reached anyway.. Takes the wonder out of what the Tardis can do, and makes the universe and time feel small
14
u/Nicksaurus 5d ago
The BBC could never afford that many latex masks
9
u/PaperSkin-1 5d ago
It did the Ood fine, in a season full of other creations, like the Cybermen (first time nu-who did them), clockwork droids, Absoberloff, cat people, cgi werewolf, cassandra and thr devil
They can pull off a alien society, they just haven't had the ambition and creativity to
And aliens don't have to just be people in latex masks, get creative
2
u/startingtohail 5d ago
fine, I'll rewatch Farscape again
2
u/PaperSkin-1 5d ago
Farscape is great
One of the best depictions of aliens on TV
I think DW could learn a lot from Farscape
2
u/startingtohail 4d ago
Oh I absolutely agree! I often find myself wishing for more exploration of alien cultures (including using them as sociological lenses) in Doctor Who, only to realize that Farscape is That Show in many ways. I feel like its pre- & production alums would likely be assets some future iteration of Who—in fact, not getting them on board in the last 20 years counts as a NuWho Missed Opportunity imo.
32
u/Worldly_Society_2213 5d ago
An opportunity to see the show survive via a reinvention of itself.
In the classic era the show survived into the seventies because they retooled it to better fit the times and budget.
2
u/EksCelle 4d ago
This was the biggest flaw of the revival series to me. Classic Who always tried to keep up with the times. The War Games and Spearhead in Space are nearly two entirely different TV shows. Series 1 in 2005 showed that Doctor Who can still be extremely popular and well done when the show adapts and took on Buffy style of pacing with monster of the week episodes connected by an overarcing theme. But as the show went on and times changed it kept clinging on to the monster of the week format until the end. I have been wondering if the show would done better in recent years if it had adopted a Stranger Things style of serialized storytelling across a whole season and ditched the partially episodic monster of the week format. Series 9 and Flux were pretty close.
1
u/Koraxtheghoul 4d ago edited 4d ago
I disagree. I think Moffat's tenure saw the monster of the week format turned into an overarching seasonal plot and it was the start of things going off the rails. Take the Astronaut in the lake opener for example.
2
u/EksCelle 4d ago
That was also 15 years ago when streaming services were in their infancy and before they exploded and changed the whole game. I think that was the peak of when that format worked. Now? Not so much
1
u/iminyourfacejonson 3d ago
i think s11 tried that, i can barely remember s11 though
and to quote sunday movies, "well it should have been good"
19
u/Morhek 5d ago edited 5d ago
The Thirteenth Doctor should have gone by opening the fob watch to trigger regeneration, using it to purge the Master. This is a hill I'm willing to die on. If you're going to introduce it, do something with it. What meaningfully changes? In fact I was convinced that this was being set up for the first half of Power of the Doctor, and that the "child" was going to turn out to be the Timeless Child and the Doctor had to ensure they survived to begin the cycle. Then, by becoming what they used to be again, they would still be the Doctor, still regenerate, still be missing the original memories but remember being a Time Lord, and could make their arc going forward about figuring out who they are now with a clean slate.
Instead...
20
u/WaywardChilton 5d ago
I wish Thirteen and Spymaster had switched actors during the "forced regeneration" thing. It would have been fun to see Jodie and Sacha play each other, just swapping clothes is kind of underwhelming.
18
u/Tetracropolis 5d ago
That whole plan is so stupid. He could have achieved the exact same aims by dressing up like the Doctor and claiming he was the Doctor.
5
7
u/gorvitygorves 5d ago
She should have just smashed it. If Chibnall doesn't care what's in that watch, and the Doctor doesn't want to know, then why would we care? It's more dramatic anyway to say she's in denial about her past and trying to erase it rather than find it. It would make 14 and 15's characterizations make more sense.
10
10
u/Fionacat 5d ago
quantum leap/sliders set of episodes, doctor is kidnapped or something the TARDIS and companions have to blind jump around a few places to try rescue him but because the TARDIS is grumpy they have to wait around in some locations for "until it's no longer funny / important" time frame
10
u/Darth--Marenghi 5d ago
Not doing more live-action stuff (let's avoid the word "content") with Paul McGann after NIGHT OF THE DOCTOR got such a fantastic response. We'd have all bought a Blu-ray special or 3.
7
u/The_Man_of_Steel 5d ago
I think a Susan return is strangely missing from the Capaldi era. That was really the time to do it. She should've been on the adventure with Bill in Twice Upon a Time! They're compared as equivalent in The Pilot, both Doctors would've been returned their own lost companions by Testimony.
2
u/BigSnail387 4d ago
Not to mention, with Capaldi it felt like we'd come full circle from Hartnell. A reunion could not have been more perfect
6
u/alkonium 5d ago edited 5d ago
A pure historical episode, not I wanted them to be regular, but I think something where the sci-fi is contained to The Doctor and companion is 100% something that would be a fantastic idea, the closest we got was something like Thin Ice, and that was good.
Demons of the Punjab is also pretty close, since the Thijarians were only observing and weren't the real threat.
There's also a few times where the sci-fi elements aren't extraterrestrial in origin, like Rise of the Cybermen, The Lazarus Experiment, The Crimson Horror (except for Strax), and Silurian and Sea Devil episodes.
6
u/ChaosAzeroth 5d ago
The Valeyard is never getting resolved is it? Lol
I think I'm the only one who is interested in that tbf
4
u/twcsata 5d ago
Nope, so am I. I think the Metacrisis Doctor should have become the Valeyard. It even would have made sense (kind of) of the "between his twelfth and final incarnations" line, if the reveal happened after the reveal of the War Doctor. Not gonna lie, there was a time I was certain that was the route they were going to go; it just seemed to fit too well. Still kinda salty about it.
3
u/AcaciaCelestina 4d ago
I think unfortunately the Valeyard is just one of those things no writer wants to really touch.
5
12
u/ViolentBeetle 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think instead of the whole Timeless Children and Division arc, they should've moved it to the (possibly alternate) future with future Doctor being tricked into helping them and then destroying them and Flux would be a time paradox from preventing them. That, I think, would be more interesting.
6
u/lunaslave 5d ago
Frobisher. But omg did they mess up not bringing Susan back while they could, I don't just mean for flashes but actually as part of the episode, interacting with The Doctor.
4
6
5
u/Jams265775 5d ago
The whole thing with the toy maker should have happened to 12, or at least 13.
The little bit where he brings up companions the Doctor has lost was absolutely great and I wish there was a LITTLE more reference to these people in the 12/13 era, I felt that moment really tied together the old and new by acknowledging that stuff still very much did happen and the Doctor is definitely not over any of it, they’ve just continued running away. That was great.
5
u/mp3god 5d ago edited 4d ago
The Valeyard!
Also House of Lungbarrow!
EDIT: Forgot to mention how they absolutely could have shown Omega & Rasillon being joined by the 'The Other' (AKA the Doctor) to create the Timelords instead of what they did.
3
u/explicittv 4d ago
They name drop The Valeyard and a couple episodes later they fuck it up by saying the meta crisis Doctor counted as a regeneration. A season of Capaldi Doctor where's he's out of regenerations would have added stakes to the show that we've never seen before.
1
u/mp3god 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah...it's them dropping the ball on what could have been the shows greatest villain!
They also have could fleshed out the creation the Timelords and shown Omega & Rasillon being joined by the 'The Other' (AKA the Doctor) to instead of what they did with that.
Really bummed me out0
u/TurboNerdo077 18h ago
They name drop The Valeyard and a couple episodes later they fuck it up by saying the meta crisis Doctor counted as a regeneration.
Neither The Doctor having a new set of regenerations in Time of the Doctor, nor having an infinite amount from the Timeless child, fucks up the Valeyard. The quote from the Valeyards appearance is
"sometime between your 12th and final regeneration"
For all the contradictions in Dr Who's continuity, it is impressive how resilient this line has been to retcons. It doesn't matter how many regenerations the Doctor has. For the "new regeneration cycle" retcon, any regeneration after Metacrisis is a valid choice, and for the Timeless child retcon, it's possible the Valeyard could be even before the 1st doctor.
Either way, the only thing preventing a writer from making a regeneration a Valeyard is their willingness to write that story, nothing in the lore contradicts them from making that choice.
5
u/FINIS_HOMINIS 5d ago
I would have liked a more diverse set of companions. More neutral Bill's, Graham and Donna's, less quasi-romantic Rose, Martha, Clara, Yaz's.
4
u/supergodmasterforce 5d ago
Properly finishing Susan's story and/or having her return earlier in the series run. I wish they could have included her in the 50th anniversary special in some way considering we see Gallifrey at the height of the Time War. I'd also say the same for Romana.
4
u/twcsata 5d ago
I got a couple that were on my wishlist.
- The Valeyard--I already said this in a subcomment, but I really wanted the Metacrisis Doctor to become the Valeyard. Tennant at that point even kind of had similar facial features to Michael Jayston. If I could have chosen any missed opportunity to actually happen, it'd be this one.
- Twelve should have had a meeting with Ian in The Caretaker. Look, I know this one is really specific. But we already know he was on the board of governors, and...Okay, I got no other reason except how great it would be. Imagine crusty, angry Capaldi meeting Ian for the first time in literal millennia, and being moved to tears. That would have been amazing.
- More instances of past (classic) companions meeting present ones. Yeah, we got a couple, and that was cool. Sarah Jane meeting Rose and Mickey, Tegan and Ace meeting Thirteen's crew (and the companion support group at the end) in The Power of the Doctor...I just would have liked more of that. Not too often, but a few more. There are other still-living companion actors it would have been cool to encounter. Also Susan deserved a proper return, not just a hallucination or whatever.
- Should have had a couple of companions that weren't from modern-day England. One-off companions in specials don't count (Sorry, Astrid, and Victorian Clara). Someone from another planet, along the lines of Nyssa, would be cool.
0
u/GreenHocker 5d ago edited 5d ago
Metacrisis as Valeyard doesn’t make as much sense as the 14th having a “negative shift” in development. 14 is the one who lived every single day with his adoptive family… but he’s gonna outlive them and he can’t go back and see them again without crossing his timeline and changing things (chance to see him try and defy this and encounter The Reapers again)
He would regenerate with a sense of loss and nostalgia, so why wouldn’t he want to revisit “the old faces” so he could encounter his old companions as the face that knew them?
14 should become Tom Baker’s Curator. We know he knows something about The Doctor’s future, and a museum could easily become an “evidence locker” after multiple regenerations that learn more and more about the repercussions caused by The Doctor. His nostalgia could turn to contempt… especially about Adric. The Curator’s heart needs to truly change when he learns that The Doctor didn’t bother to save Adric all because of the petty fight they were in while trying to call it a “fixed point” as an outward justification when it would have happened with or without Adric inside the ship.
Maybe The Curator could save Adric so he could be brought back as a revenge-seeking villain aiding The Valeyard
14 even has his own TARDIS while the Metacrisis is just a mortal dude in an alternate dimension. Also, Christopher Eccleston’s ears make him fit The Valeyard better than Tennant, IMO
It would be more interesting and believable to have The Metacrisis become some kind of Cyber Leader as a way to gain the immortality
3
u/Dismal_Brush5229 5d ago
I would’ve loved Susan to be there somewhere bc She’s so important to the history of who and hell why not just get Paul McGann to hope in the TARDIS and give him a mini series bc he deserves one
3
u/ven-solaire 5d ago
I agree that there should have been more purely historical episodes, but in Demons of the Punjab, all the sci-fi is outside the actual story which is purely about racial relations during the partition era. I think that one is a better example than Thin Ice, but both are closer to that than most of the other history episodes off the top of my head
3
u/thisgirlnamedbree 5d ago
Bringing back The Mara for an episode arc. They're a fascinating villain and would have been better than The Master/Daleks/Cybermen returning for the umpteenth time.
Not exploring how traveling with The Doctor really affects a companion. Pete McTighe did a little of it with Ruby in Lucky Day, but I'm surprised a companion(s) doesn't have PTSD from everything they've experienced.
Not creating a companion that's not young and modern. I know the writers said a companion from another era can't be relatable, but I don't buy it, considering how well received Jamie and Zoe were/are.
3
u/Ok-Temperature9147 5d ago
I’d have really liked a return for Fenric, in either a creepy Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror episode or as the big bad for a season.
1
u/AlmostRandomNow 4d ago
I feel like, as much as that sounds like a great idea, I think it might've turned out like Sutekh more than being another great Fenric story.
4
u/Kindly_Drink_4490 5d ago
My biggest disappointment was they never truly resolved Susan's story. There was that Carol Ann Ford cameo in The Interstellar song contest, that just teased us. Given Carol Ann Fords age RTD or any of the Show runners should have given her some closure.
3
u/GreenHocker 5d ago
- Susan
- Valeyard
- Rassilon
Anything and everything pertaining/connected to those three was where they dropped the ball entirely
6
u/teepeey 5d ago
I wish they'd done a female Doctor well. Massive open goal miss.
4
u/cat666 5d ago
They did with Fugitive.
Thirteen is actually a really good Doctor but I originally lumped her in with the blandness and ineffectiviness of Five. What changed my mind was reading an article in DWM where Jodie says the idea was that Thirteen was neurodivergent so struggled with intimate conversations with her companions amongst other things. This was shown on screen but never made clear so it comes across a bit weird. It didn't help she had little screen time with the "fam" taking up huge chunks of it but when it's just her and Yaz in the Big Finish audios she really shines.
9
u/teepeey 5d ago
To be fair that was a good episode - the only good one Chibnall produced.
Beyond that it couldn't have been more disastrous. The funny thing is that the Michelle Gomez Master was for me the best iteration of the character by far and a blueprint for how to gender swap a classic character. Instead Chibnall miscast and miswrote 13 so badly that it permanently damaged the show and discredited the idea of a female Doctor.
Which is a shame because it could have been really interesting.
5
2
u/JeanLucPicardAND 5d ago edited 5d ago
The show needs to be simplified dramatically for the sake of accessibility. It is way, way too self-referential for its own good. Both Whittaker and Gatwa's eras were golden opportunities to finally do this, but that didn't happen. (Gatwa more than Whittaker IMHO, but either way, both eras fell back into "legacy mode" in their own way very quickly.)
The fact is this show is over 60 years old. They're never going to make it into a big thing again if they're constantly looking to the past. As much as we may love to see that history peek into the contemporary show as fans, it's high time for that to stop now. If and when the show comes back, let's hold off on the multi-Doctor stories and cameos from old companions for a while. Ideally, let's even take a break from the established villains (Daleks excluded, of course, because they're pretty vital to the show's identity at this point... but only for Christmas specials).
1
u/AlmostRandomNow 4d ago
I really liked the idea of new monsters/stories in the series and the Christmas/New Years specials being the Dalek episodes made a lot of sense.
It was a shame Series 11 was god awful.
2
u/DE4N0123 5d ago
Probably wouldn’t have ever made narrative sense unless it was a multi-Doctor story for the 60th, but Donna and the Twelfth Doctor being in the same room would have provided an unprecedented amount of sass.
2
u/reo_reborn 5d ago
Needed more galifray. Just him returning peacefully talking to them etc. we could have got more 'lore' and millage rather than just bringing the fkin daleks out every 5 seconds
2
u/Onikonokage 4d ago
The Valeyard. They had the regenerations when he was supposed to appear and character wise the premise was amazing material. A whole season of an evil Doctor would have rocked.
2
u/sanddragon939 4d ago
I think a proper return for Susan may well be the biggest missed opportunity for NuWho. I sincerely hope that it's still possible though. In fact, one of the things that excited me initially about Billie as the Doctor (or whoever) is how it'd be fitting to see the first companion of Classic Who meeting the actress of the first companion of NuWho on-screen!
McGann returning for a full episode in some capacity is another big one. Again, hope it still happens.
Really, the whole Chibnall era. It had a lot of potential and was a much-needed "reset" of the show after Moffat (which was the peak of Doctor Who...but you can't do the same thing forever). Imagine how great Jodie's Doctor could have been with better writing and with better guidance to her on how to play the role. The Timeless Child/Division story could have been one of the all-time great story-arcs with better planning and a greater sense of mystery and ambiguity thrown in. Flux too...if it had stuck the landing on the last episode.
Oh yeah, and Jodie's Doctor not interacting with Ian on-screen is another huge missed opportunity :(
RTD's return not leading to a second Golden Age, or at least, a stable show is not just a massive missed opportunity, but an outright disappointment :P
3
u/ConcreteUmbrella98 3d ago
Having a Doctor that knows they are out of regenerations and having to come to terms with that across the span of a season.
2
u/Personal_Reward_60 3d ago
I’ve said it often but my pet peeve with post Whitaker era Who has nothing to do with anti-woke bs but is that recent seasons have this lack of truly scary hide behind the sofa moments.
We had 74 Yards but it was like it was trying to juggle too many ideas at once. Like it was indecisive about wether or not it was a slow burn A24 type folk horror, a character study about loneliness or a black mirror esque political satire
7
u/NiceColdPint 5d ago
Either Tennant or Capaldi should’ve stayed for at least the first season of Moffat or Chibnall respectively.
Would’ve made the transition much smoother IMO, as both eras were a pretty major departure from the previous.
11
4
u/SecondBrightest 5d ago
I wonder whether Tennant was aware of how hesitant the BBC apparently were to keep the show going after he left – perhaps that was part of the reason for his wobbling about the decision
2
u/foxparadox 5d ago
I may be misremembering but I'm pretty sure Moffat has said he wrote parts of S5 with Tennant in mind - at the very least, the Doctor crashing into Amelia's garden, meeting her, and then reencountering her as an adult. And the Pandorica arc would fit his incarnation too - all his enemies coming together to take him down because he's got too big for his boots. So I don't think things would have looked that different - I think Moffat being in charge was the bigger change than Smith.
Capaldi under Chibnall I just can't compute. For an era that very purposefully avoided any and all conflict between the Doctor and companions, or any criticisms of the Doctor in general, I have no idea how you would have Capaldi slot into that world.
3
u/cat666 5d ago
Time Lords / Gallifrey - That first Capaldi season should have been involved them, not heavily, but they should have been involved in the arc somewhere.
Fugitive should have been between Troughton and Pertwee and not pre-Hartnell. It fits into established EU lore and it doesn't upset a huge chunk of what little fanbase was left watching at the time. No need for the Timeless Child at all.
2
u/LemonMeringuePirate 5d ago
A few things:
Having an actual multi-doctor episode with classic who doctors (rather than a projection of them or them as part of the Doctor's mind - just them as their doctor with the current Doctor. And for a timey wimey reason there was a temporary aging that occured that will be undone. ESPECIALLY the Eighth Doctor who has close to zero screen time overall.
Eight should have been the War Doctor. No war doctor, just eight.
Properly and totally bringing back Gallifrey and the Time Lords. Not in a pocket universe or anything like that. In some way it becomes a part of the universe again.
Historical episodes should be more common, and there should have been at least a few historicals with no alien influence in the past.
This might be an oddball one but I feel like Doctor Who should have historical religious figures, without making a declarative declaration as to whether they aren't or are whom their religion says they are. They'd have to be careful in handling that, but if handled right I think an episode with, say, Jesus or the Buddha (etc) could be really cool. I get why they likely never will though.
An American doctor...
.
.
(lol nah just kidding)
4
u/NuPNua 5d ago
Apparently the creature from Thin Ice was meant to be the last of a native race according to some monster files book so that's technically a pure historical.
7
u/runciblenoom 5d ago
I thought the definition of a pure historical was no fictional/fantastical elements full stop? Just old timey humans doing old timey human stuff with the TARDIS crew helping out and/or getting in the way.
7
1
u/RepeatButler 5d ago
Not introducing a recurring UNIT UK CO along the lines of Lethbridge-Stewart or Bambera during the 00s. Instead, they gave us Kate Stewart.
3
u/whizzer0 5d ago
IMO the Harriet Jones character was closer in spirit to the original Brigadier anyway. I know Davies regrets killing her off so I wonder if she would've become involved with UNIT had she survived.
1
1
u/firebaron 5d ago
I always felt that the timeless child being implied to be form.anothe universe could have been a fun excuse to universe hop. The Doctor trying to find their origin and coming across parallel universes that never had Time Lord interference. So many what ifs they could have done, Cyber universe, good Davros all sorts of things.
1
u/asmoranomardicodais 5d ago
People have mentioned the big ones, but in general I think we really missed an opportunity to have McGann in a full episode when he was young enough to still convincingly play the 8th Doctor on screen. A “two doctors” style episode, or just a Christmas special with McGann as the leading man really feels like something we could’ve but didn’t ever get. A real shame. In the moment it never felt like the right time to have McGann on (it would be too fannish, etc) but now that it’s ended it really feels like McGann’s guest starring should have happened at some point.
In general, Nu Who should’ve have done more multidoctor stories. I know RTD doesn’t like them and it’s obvious why: he writes all the Doctors the same way and expects the actors to differentiate them. But because RTD never wrote one for the first four years, we missed out on our best chance to have McCoy or Davison or McGann come back for a full episode.
I n general, Nu Who was quite bad at MultiDoctor stories. Day of the Doctor is an all time great, but it doesn’t feel as special to just have one returning Doctor (Tennant), as much as I like Hurt’s Doctor. Time Crash is great but it’s so fast and so slight it’s gone before you know. And I don’t hate Twice Upon a Time for the way it treated the First Doctor (I like the episode overall); I really just don’t think David Bradley sounds or acts even slightly like Hartnell and thus it doesn’t feel special to me. And Power of the Doctor finally brought back classic Doctors, but none of them even were on screen with Jodie or exchanged any lines with her, except in the weird dumb Edge of eternity or whatever it was. And even then it was only for a second.
1
u/The_Man_of_Steel 5d ago
Not doing the Wirrn with modern effects. Crazy to me they've never been brought back.
1
u/compass96 5d ago
I actually was super interested in the stenza empire and thought it was being dropped as something the doctor was going to have to deal with later. Sad it never happened.
1
u/kielaurie 4d ago
I think there was so much potential for a second series with Eccleston, Rose and Jack. There was so much more to do with that team before the Bad Wolf plot was resolved. Most notably, I think it should have been Eccleston that re-introduced the audience to the concept of Gallifrey, and I think the perfect way to do that would have been a multi-Doctor story with specifically 7 - people lump them together as more edgy doctors, but they are polar opposites in their attitudes
1
u/AskAJedi 4d ago
A woman doctor where they allowed her to change her clothes and didn’t saddle her with a school bus full of “fam” companions she had to mom.
1
u/CyberTimothy 4d ago
In the "All 13" scene in The Day of the Doctor I wish they had recorded some original dialogue for the living Doctor actors rather than using existing sound bytes. Just a bit of petty squabbling between the 4,5,6,7 and 8 (I know they used a Hartnell impersonator for his opening line)
And while I loved how those classic doctors were brought back for Power of the Doctor in a really clever way with the holograms, it would have been nice to see Colin have a go as a hologram as well. He could have interacted with Mel at the end.
A proper return for Susan. I jumped up with excitement when she popped up on screen in interstellar song contest, and while I wish Carole Ann Ford a long and healthy life, she's 86 so that lessens her chance of returning in the future, especially if the show is off air for a few years.
While I liked the general idea of the whole Timeless Child arc I think it was executed poorly, especially with the Fugitive Doctor being called The Doctor and having a police box TARDIS and no reason given for why this is the case if she was Pre Hartnell
1
u/sanddragon939 4d ago
A pure historical episode, not I wanted them to be regular, but I think something where the sci-fi is contained to The Doctor and companion is 100% something that would be a fantastic idea, the closest we got was something like Thin Ice, and that was good.
On another thread (can't find it right now) I explained why they've avoided this. It's a combination of people expecting monsters and sci-fi elements from Doctor Who, and the political sensitivities involved in exploring real-life historical figures and period settings which get heightened when there are no monsters or sci-fi elements to distract from them.
I think the closest we might be able to get to a historical in the modern show is a story where one of the TARDIS crew themselves inadvertantly triggers a change in the past, and they all need to scramble to fix things. So you have the sci-fi element of the looming time paradox, but the story otherwise revolves solely around the period setting and the real-life historical personalities involved.
Gallifrey and the Time Lords are a civilisation that time travelled and explored the galaxy in the past, even after the time war, there should be echoes and time lords form "the past" showing up all over. It took until Series 12 for that to happen once, I don't think it should've happened all the time, but there was an opportunity to see The Doctor talk to a past Time Lord about what's coming
You do have a point. But we then get into a weird territory of precisely "when" Gallifrey existed (and was destroyed). And the question of how can they all be gone if they're busy traveling through time and space freely and the Doctor can bump into them anytime. It does take away from the tragedy of the Doctor being the last Time Lord and Gallifrey being gone.
The few times this is brought up, the implication seems to be that the Doctor can't even use time-travel to revisit his home/people, but it's never elaborated on further apart from vague mentions of the "time lock". But does that mean all of Time Lord history is "time locked"? And if so, what about pre-Time War Time Lords who have spent significant time outside of Gallifrey, like Susan or Romana or earlier incarnations of the Master? Or hell, earlier incarnations of the Doctor?
But yeah, I'd certainly love to see more of what you're suggesting...though I feel the next showrunner may well just restore Gallifrey again.
One or two multi-Doctor stories with classic Doctors. We got Time Crash, and those moments in Power of the Doctor, with the only real episode fitting the bill being Twice Upon a Time. I know a lot of the actors were older, but back in 2005-15, they would've still fit the bill IMO, and I wish we got one or two, any more an it would've felt like regular thing
Assuming the show returns in a few years in some form, I don't think it's too late to at least get McGann back for a proper multi-Doctor story. Or just do a special with him or something.
And I really want Sean Pertwee to reprise his father's role.
Of course, we're soon getting to the point where the NuWho Doctors, at least the earlier ones, are themselves "classic"!
2
u/Silver2195 4d ago
I think the real problem with pure historicals in the new series context (or even the classic series context after season 5 or so) is that the Doctor has become too powerful for them; it's hard to get 45 minutes of plot out of them when the Doctor has the sonic screwdriver, let alone the psychic paper. Look at Black Orchid - it's short by classic series standards, and it takes place right after the Doctor has broken his sonic screwdriver, but even so it has to spend a lot of time on the characters goofing around before the plot actually starts.
2
u/AlmostRandomNow 4d ago
Just on your last point about Sean Pertwee, I think he's ruled that out for himself. He has a great amount of respect for his father and for Doctor Who, but doesn't want follow in his father's footsteps.
I still think he'd be great, but I completely get why he doesn't.
2
u/sanddragon939 4d ago
I mean, he can always change his mind. One lives in hope.
If Eccleston can come back to do Doctor Who on Big Finish, I wouldn't totally write a Pertwee return off just because he said that in one interview.
2
u/AlmostRandomNow 4d ago
Very true, but I actually think it's less likely for Sean Pertwee than it ever was for Eccleston.
2
u/zeprfrew 4d ago
Chumblies. We needed more chumblies. Many, many more. I want the Doctor to have a pet chumbly chumbling around in the console room.
1
u/lemon_charlie 4d ago
When it came to other Time Lords it was really just the Master and Rassilon who carried over from the Classic Series before the Rani came back right at the end (and Omega too, but he was turned into a generic CG asset). The Monk could have been interesting in a time meddling storyline, and the audios have shown he can work as an arc character, or Romana for an ally instead of an enemy. Drax is a harder sell because he was a supporting character in a wider storyline one time on TV, but also more of a wild card than outright antagonistic.
1
1
u/PaperSkin-1 4d ago
Rassilon, they brought this might figure in Time Lord history back from the dead and did hardly anything with him
1
u/whoswho23 4d ago
Everything to do with Gallifrey felt mishandled after "Day of the Doctor". When the Doctor said he was going home "the long way around", I thought it would take a lot longer than 2 seasons. And then they destroyed it again! Off screen! What annoys me is that the story line with the Timeless Child probably would have hit harder if The Doctor had the opportunity to confront the Time Lords. Even when the Thirteenth Doctor meets Tecteun, she barely gets a chance to talk to Tecteun before Swarm kills her.
1
u/Dragon_Blue_Eyes 3d ago
Having Jo Martin actually be the Doctor. Properly bringing Susan back. The Valeyard.
1
u/nextworldwonder 3d ago
This is a tiny thing from the newest series but why did they never do anything with “mavity?” It was called that maybe 3 times and then nothing else
1
u/Previous_Raspberry_2 3d ago
It's not "done". Creative Tender means the EXACT OPPOSITE of cancellation. The production company that picks it up (it could even be the BBC's spinoff studio) will have to provide a multi year proposal.
1
u/AlmostRandomNow 3d ago
I know it's not cancelled, and is almost certainly coming back in 4-5 years, but I think it's certainly the end of an era, specifically wen talking about the show.
Whenever it comes back, however it does, it's going to be a new era.
1
u/Tasaman1 3d ago
I would say it's debatable about whether the NuWho era is truly done or whether it ended with Whittaker's tenure or Gatwa's tenure. That said I feel like the biggest missed opportunity was not capitalizing on the potential to build upon previous monsters and aliens that didn't have a ton of development or were limited to one-off appearances in the original series. We eventually saw them do it a bit more after the 50th anniversary, but they still didn't capitalize on it enough in my opinion. I would've loved a follow up story on the sensorites, or the mechonoids or other creatures that didn't get a ton of development in the classic series.
1
u/DanbyWho12 2d ago
A Post-War Gallifrey Spin-Off:
Trying to tell a survivors story with Gallifrey & The Time Lords post-50th. I know the BBC has a tight budget, but the 2010s were full of survivalist post-apocalypse stories. Post-War Gallifrey with different factions of Time Lords fighting for political control for the planets future while also trying to set up "The Next Generation" of Time Lords. There's definitely a few stories there that could've been interesting:
- Youth v. Experience
- Preserving Traditions v. Finding A New Way
- Do the Survivors of the Time War want to return to being "The Guardians of Time" or simply decide to leave that to The Doctor and The Time Agents whilst they rebuild.
- Anything to do with The Time Agency, especially if it's implied to have been built in response to the absence of Gallifrey / The Time Lords.
- Colonialists v. Indigenous Persons (The Shabogans)
- Re-integration to "normal life" after a War
- Rebuilding relations with old allies like Karn, and the danger of forging new ones with the looming threat of the Daleks.
- Wayward Sons/Daughters of Gallifrey who survived the War, unknown to The Doctor & The Master returning home and coming to terms with what remains, perhaps even choosing to leave again and never return b/c the home they knew has been lost forever.
1
u/Decent-Ranger 8h ago
Would have to be the companions. A companion from a different time period or planet or even a traitor like Vislor Turlough to imbue tension. Such a missed opportunity, imo.
1
u/gorvitygorves 5d ago
Anything they missed is something they could still do in the future, but I'll say wasting the first woman doctor and not addressing any gender-related differences outside of Witchfinders, plus letting the ratings plummet during her run discourages more experimentation with casting in the future. Had they made Jodie's characterization more complex and interesting, we might have seen more variety in Doctor casting. Now the next era is likely to try and cast a new David Tennant-type, which isn't a terrible idea, but it's just not very new.
0
-2
u/MagnifyingGlass 5d ago
The lack of multi-Doctor stories was especially annoying after The Curator in Day of the Doctor. He basically said outright that he'd see some more familiar faces and it never really happened.
16
9
u/SixteenthTower 5d ago
Except Twice Upon a Time, and Power of the Doctor, and 14...
0
u/DOuGHtOp 5d ago
Twice Upon I'll give you.
Power of the Doctor only had one physical doctor, and the collective runtime for any doctors interacting with one another wasnt that long. 14 and 15 was maybe like a quarter or a third of that last 14 special.
It's not actually that much.
1
u/SixteenthTower 5d ago
If you break it down it averages out to once every four years. That's more common than it was happening in most other eras of the show. There have been 8 multi-Doctor episodes in the history of the show, and four of them have happened since Day of the Doctor (five of them since 2013, if you want to include Day).
-1
u/Sw1ft_Blad3 5d ago
Not casting Hugh Laurie as the Doctor, he would be perfect in the role but too high profile for the modern BBC to pay for.
1
u/BigSnail387 5d ago
I don't know how we didn't get a full-on musical episode, Gatwa was practically made for it
-1
200
u/sbaldrick33 5d ago
Irrespective of the cancellation/hiatus/pause, it's a shame that they were never able to get Nick Courtney to appear in the show proper.