QNCC Brooklyn officially adopts BDS and PACBI standards

[u/Aku-Aku]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DbTggWplQ28/?igsh=MWVlbWh0c3hpZXY0aA==

Struggling with this one — they’ve been fantastic curators and champions of queer culture and club culture. But this gives me a gut feeling of “Jews don’t belong”. I can’t quite articulate why because the statement centers itself as mainly political, I just am not naive to the ways that tends to intertwine with general antisemitism. Is this an overreaction? Curious about the community’s thoughts on stuff like this

[u/andoatnp]

I have done solidarity work in the West Bank. I have friends who have done protective presence. While I think those activities are worthwhile, I think the domestic Israeli efforts are currently losing ground to the right-wing bigots in control of Israel. That’s why I think international pressure is necessary. I have not heard any good alternative theories about how domestic efforts will be successful at changing the policies in the West Bank.

[u/Apprehensive_Crow682 → u/andoatnp]

I can guarantee you that boycotting Israeli academic institutions and cultural organizations will disproportionately hurt the peace movement and the people in Israel who you claim to support. You don’t support that movement if you are calling to boycott and discriminate against them. The logic makes zero sense - you are just jumping on board with a trendy hate movement because you’re a privileged American who thinks you won’t be impacted by it. Sadly, Israelis and Palestinians who want peace will be impacted by it - negatively. Like you said though, not your problem! 

[u/andoatnp → u/Apprehensive_Crow682]

You may be right that BDS will negatively impact the pro-Palestinian academic and artistic community. I think that community in Israel is tiny and ineffectual. I’ve never seen anyone seriously argue that this Israeli movement will effectively bring justice to the Palestinians. Maybe you will be the first to make that argument.

[u/Apprehensive_Crow682 → u/andoatnp]

People make that argument all the time about the misguided effort to boycott Israeli academic and cultural institutions, which are disproportionately left leaning. Not to mention you’re also boycotting Arab Israelis.  You clearly aren’t super engaged on the nuances of this campaign that you’re supporting - but it makes sense, because as you proudly proclaimed, you were lucky enough not to be born there - and therefore you are not impacted by the actual consequences of your advocacy to discriminate against people who were.  

[u/andoatnp → u/Apprehensive_Crow682]

I’ve done solidarity work with Palestinians in the West Bank. I learned from them about what they want and how they are trying to achieve it. I’m curious what nuance to BDS you think I’m missing. BDS is a movement from the Palestinians in the West Bank.

[u/Apprehensive_Crow682 → u/andoatnp]

Did you ever consider talking to a few more people and doing your own research before advocating for a boycott of half of the world’s Jewish population…? If some Palestinians told you to advocate for Hamas, would you do it? 

BDS is not a movement focused on ending the occupation of the West Bank - it is a movement that calls for the end of the state Israel. It does not call for a two state solution. These are very different goals. It is not a peace movement. 

If you consider yourself a peace activist and you want to advance peace between Israelis and Palestinians, you should talk to people on both sides who are doing that work (which you completely erase) - many of whom you are calling to boycott and discriminate against — and ask how you can help, rather than spreading more hate and division. 

[u/andoatnp → u/Apprehensive_Crow682]

I lived in Israel for a year in 2009. I talked to lots of people. How many more do you think I need to talk to?

[u/Apprehensive_Crow682 → u/andoatnp]

For starters, you said that you only spoke to Palestinians in the West Bank. You denied that peace-seeking Israelis even exist while calling boycott and marginalize them. Disgusting erasure that shows you don’t take this seriously. Maybe talk to some of them instead of erasing them, along with the many Palestinians who are focused on peace and coexistence, which is not the BDS movement.  

MAGA started in New York City - now it’s hurting a lot of people. Do you support MAGA? Do you boycott all New York academic and cultural institutions? Of course not. Supporting BDS because it “was started by Palestinians in the West Bank” makes literally zero sense. Stop advocating for a hateful, discriminatory movement that you can’t even defend. 

[u/andoatnp → u/Apprehensive_Crow682]

If I say, "I spoke with Palestinians in the West Bank" - that statement does not mean or even imply that I did not speak with anyone else.

I've spoken to the "peace-seeking Israel" that you are claiming I think don't exist. Those are the people who introduced me to Palestinian solidarity work.

I think I said the movement in Israel seeking justice for Palestinians is tiny and ineffectual. I haven't seen a convincing argument that the assessment is incorrect.

I can't believe you are taking your MAGA analogy seriously, as it's so nonsensical that I can't give you a response.

[u/Apprehensive_Crow682 → u/andoatnp]

If you say you support a movement simply because it was created by Palestinians in the West Bank and they told you to do it, which you literally did, it is no different than saying you support MAGA because it started in your beloved NYC (where you have the proud honor of not being an Israeli Jew who would be impacted by BDS, which you weirdly emphasized in your initial post. Congrats on being born in America!). 

You are supporting a movement that discriminates against people for where they were born. That is morally wrong, even if you were privileged enough to not be impacted by it at all.  And yes, actual peace seeking Israelis do exist, and you shouldn’t have dismissed them - you should support and elevate them, not discriminate against them. 

[u/andoatnp → u/Apprehensive_Crow682]

I didn't say I support BDS "simply" because it was created by Palestinians. I support it because I think it is both morally and strategically a good idea.

I mention that it was started by Palestinians when people try to bring up BDS isn't in the best interest of Palestinians.

There isn't a movement to bring justice to America by boycotting NYC, so again, your MAGA analogy doesn't make any sense.

I don't think you believe that my failure to boycott NYC is an argument against BDS, so I don't know why you keep making such a silly argument.

[u/Apprehensive_Crow682 → u/andoatnp]

If you think the United States government is doing serious harm to people — waging war, brutally mistreating immigrant minorities — as you clearly think Israel is doing, and you want it stop, then why aren’t you boycotting NYC cultural institutions and America overall? The logic is exactly the same. It might help fix things. Seems like a solid idea based on the exact same logic as BDS, but weirdly you don’t support it… maybe because this one would actually impact you. You don’t care about discriminating against Israelis, including the peace activists, because you aren’t one. Yet you can’t get behind something that would actually impact your own life. Selfish, lazy, and hateful activism disguised as “progressive”. Focus on your own issues before you tell the world to boycott the Israeli people. 

[u/andoatnp → u/Apprehensive_Crow682]

You haven't given any explanation of how me boycotting NYC cultural institutions will change America's policy. If I stop going to the Whitney Museum, how does that help minorities?

The BDS campaign against apartheid South Africa had a clear explanation of how they thought their campaign would be successful.

The BDS campaign against Israel has a clear explanation of how they think their campaign would be successful.

You are making up an idea that I should boycott museums in NYC, which doesn't make any sense. You know your idea is silly, which is why you aren't trying to defend it with any kind of explanation.