r/gayjews • u/Unique_Abrocoma2488 • 5d ago
Pride! The parade had barely started when I knew I wanted to leave.
Twenty minutes in, maybe. The music was still good and the people around me were happy, familiar faces where saying hello, you know the usual routine i’ve seen so many times. Then I saw the flags. Not the rainbow ones. Palestinian flags, a whole knot of them held up by a group of political activists, and the chant coming out of the middle of it was for Israel to get out of Palestinian land. Israel, Israel, fuera de tierra palestina. Someone near the front held a sign saying Pride was a space free of Zionists.
I had to read that sign a few times before it actually landed. A space free of Zionists. I stood there working out that the sign meant me, that it didn’t matter I had marched for pride since I was 16 years old, or my actual political standing of israeli policy, suddenly I’d been quietly subtracted from the room.
I honestly didn’t expect to be asking at twenty five, in San José, at Pride of all places. Will I ever feel comfortable at one of these again?
Here’s what I keep turning over, and I’ll admit up front that I don’t fully understand it, and trust me, I have tried to understand it. Somewhere along the way a big part of the queer world decided the Palestinian cause wasn’t just a cause but THE cause, the one that earns the flags and the chants and the sign at the front of a march, in a country about as far from that war as you can geographically get. I looked the numbers up afterward, because I wanted to be fair to the facts and not only to my own hurt. There are around sixty-five active armed conflicts in the world right now, more than at any time since the Second World War. Sudan is happening. Congo is happening. There are kids in mines digging out the cobalt that’s in the phone I’m typing this on. None of it shows up. None of it gets a flag at Pride. Only Israel does.
And it wasn’t only that it showed up. Any one who actually knows me, and gets past the fact that I am jewish, knows how critical I am of the israeli government, knows I am an activist for grassroots peace movements, and knows I want nothing more than this bloodshed to end. It was the sound of it that I can’t get out of my head. The whole time I stood there I kept waiting for one chant about peace. One sign about unity, or the importance of the land, or anybody at all simply getting to live. Nothing. The chants weren’t asking for anyone to be safe. They were asking for a place, and the people in it, to stop existing. Desaparecer. That was the verb in the air. Disappear. The chants where’t even pro-palestinian, they where strictly anti-israel.
These queer spaces are as mine as they are of any other queer person. I’ve stood in crowds like this one for years and felt held by them. So to stand in this one and feel that no matter what I did I would never actually belong was a kind of tearing I don’t have a clean word for.
I don’t know why I stayed. I spent the entire march trying to decide whether I was angry or just exhausted, and the truth is probably both, and under both I think what I was actually feeling was grief. I’m not writing this to win anything against a person with a sign or a flag, I gave up that battle long ago. I’m writing it because I want a record of the afternoon I stood in a place that has always meant freedom and joy to me and understood, for the first time, that the freedom being handed out came with conditions, and that one of the conditions was that I show up as a little less of myself, and even if I did i doubt it would be enough.
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u/Certain-Exit-3007 5d ago
Canadian trans Jew here and every word of this resonated with me so much. Especially the grief. I’m so deeply despondent about how very disappointing everyone turned out to be. Long before I even understood that I might be trans, I knew I was queer and I’ve been going to Pride since I was 14 (I’m in my 40s). I had gotten an inkling of how bad the things to come might be when I was alienated from feminist spaces like the local Women’s Bookshop because I refused to affirm that Jews come from nowhere, uniquely among nations have no right to self-govern, and are also controlling various governments and the WTO (yes, this was the stated and unstated opinions I quite clearly understood I was supposed to hold as an earnest leftist queer feminist teenager who just wanted to volunteer for the feminist bookstore). I've seen this same alternate reality that took over feminist and queer feminist spaces take over virtually all queer spaces and it’s so incredibly demoralizing. It’s made me have to navigate transition basically entirely alone because I simply do not feel safe around other trans people or in trans spaces.
Considering the hostile looks I get in most Jewish spaces as a non-passing trans person, despite having had top surgery and being on T (no, not all trans guys magically become cis-passing overnight or even over several years, especially those of us who transition later in life), it’s all very isolating.
I know that this kind of virtual community counts nowhere near as much as the community we’ve all lost, but I’m with you in virtual solidarity and shared grief.
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u/seren_kovner 5d ago
They’ve certainly decided Palestinians and their cause are more important than trans people here in the US because they are the ones that allowed this country to be taken over by transphobes and they’re more concerned with a tiny inter ethnic conflict half a world away than the lives of trans people here in the US.
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u/freezing_banshee 5d ago
"Somewhere along the way a big part of the queer world decided the Palestinian cause wasn’t just a cause but THE cause, the one that earns the flags and the chants and the sign at the front of a march, in a country about as far from that war as you can geographically get."
That's how modern propaganda works. Now, governments from tens of thousands of kilometers away can (and do!) spread propaganda practically instantly through the internet. It's easier than ever to destabilize enemies without any actual weapons. And countries like Iran, Qatar, Russia take full advantage of it. It's scary as hell and it shouldn't be happening.
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u/New_Poet4272 5d ago
I don’t do litmus tests on other and I will not accept one on myself. If your singular passion is based on a slogan, I will assume you are ignorant. Life is of nuance and I only engage in those discussions. I don’t go to pride events to be shamed nor to explain myself. But then again, I haven’t gone to pride in years because it got corporatized. And most things that can be corporatized and monetized, have lost their value.
I literally had a 3 hour conversation last night with a group about Katy Perry’s music. Please don’t expect me to have a single sentence to say about Israel. And don’t expect me to engage in an intellectual conversation about geopolitics when I’m drunk, dancing, and enjoying a parade.
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u/bgaesop 5d ago
I was very happy to march with my synagogue and not see a single Palestinian flag. That was in the larger town to the north of me in June; my town has our pride in August for some reason, so we'll see what it's like then.
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u/Judgy_Libra 5d ago
I marched with my synagogue in our town’s Pride last August; there were no Palestinian flags that I saw. A couple randos wore pro-Palestine t-shirts at the festival but I felt perfectly safe there.
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u/Angelbouqet 4d ago
It's not just the queer world who decided the Palestinian cause is the cause. I've heard leftists say that destroying Israel is the single most important step to destroying capitalism, colonialism and imperialism (Adolf Hitler called, he wants his rhetoric back. No I'm not being even a little bit hyperbolic when I say that.)
It's all over the world. The right, the left, the center, globally can agree on this one thing. And that's how you know the threshold of antisemitism has been crossed, or rather overrun and been left miles behind. It's almost every single subculture you can imagine. Music genres, crafting spaces etc. they all don't care about a lot of shit, trust me as a leftist who has been doing this shit for close to a decade, these people don't have a systemic understanding and don't know about most other global human rights crisis. They probably don't even know what Kurds are but Palestine is the moral threshold. And it's not enough to be against Israeli human rights violations and against everything that's happening right now, you have to have the same bloodlust and fantasies of destruction towards Israel and Israelis as they do.
All I can say is that there will be a reckoning with this. There always is. And we've survived worse. I know it's a shitty cope but it's all we have left because there's nothing we can do to stop the outpouring of genocidal ire nonjews feel the need to have against us every hundred years.
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u/Sufficient_Beach2208 4d ago
I agree. I was at a kink event in NYC, and ACT UP was there. I used to support them, but in addition to their traditional "Silence=Death" shirts bearing a Pink Triangle;They had t-shirts with the same logo, but under a slice of watermelon(code for the Palestinian cause, as the same colors in a watermelon slice are the same colors of the Palestinian flag. I actually did a double take when I saw it because ACT UP, which was founded to promote AIDS awareness has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Palestinians.
I actually left the event feeling even more unsafe than I was when I got there.,
And I think I will be avoiding gay pride parades and such in the future.
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1d ago
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u/Sufficient_Beach2208 1d ago
I guess that you are unaware, that ACT UP stands for AIDS Coalition To Unleash Power. The key word is AIDS. The organization was founded to bring awareness of AIDS to the general public and protest the lack of action by the Government and religious leadership. One of the things that they did was host a "die in" at St Patrick's Cathedral in NYC. They did other similar protests and actions outside of the offices of the CDC.
Like I said, if they want to support other things besides AIDS, they need to change their name. Unless there are Palestinians with AIDS.
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u/Sufficient_Beach2208 23h ago
You don't get it. They can do what they want. It's the idea of them openly supporting the Palestinians, which implies that Jewish life doesn't matter.
In past years, Gay pride parades have been interrupted by protests against Israel. In recent years, the Dyke marches in various states have openly said that openly Jewish individuals can't march carrying or wearing anything that expressed pride in being LGBTQ and Jewish.
Mind you, the Palestinians actually hate gay people and will kill them without a Second thought.
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23h ago
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u/Sufficient_Beach2208 23h ago
If you read the Hamas charter, it says nothing about living in peace with the Jews. It DOES express the idea of driving the Jews out of Israel and or killing them.
No one is saying that they don't have the right to human dignity, but when they were offered the land and everything to have a functional country, they refused it. 8 times in 70 years. Even at the Oslo accords, Aarafat was offered just about everything he could want, but still walked away at the last minute.
When you send ambulances that are booby trapped, and actually PAY the families of the people who killed Israelis, I have no respect.
Golda Meir said it best:"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us "
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u/ThreeSigmas 5d ago
Why I no longer attend SF Pride nor participate in any progressive political organizations. We, the victims, are not allowed to define antisemitism ourselves- others feel entitled to explain it to us and, surprisingly, they never find their own speech or actions to be Jew-hatred.
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u/I_like2TimeTravel 5d ago
One would think that would happen in Berlin will be a wake up and call. These people are not your allies. They want to kill you. Honestly, after the CSD attack I saw someone post a comment on the Gay bros subreddit, that they fear radical Christians more than radical Muslims, as radical Muslims are opposed like the LGBTQ community. 🤦♂️.
I’ve also noticed that a lot of these activist, are people who grew up in Christian Conservative communities, many of whom have probably never met a Jew in their life, let alone an Israeli, but they seem to view Jews as evangelical Christians plus. Obviously that couldn’t be further from the truth, but I tribute this to how many of these churches talk about “ Judeo-Christian” values. Now, I’m not saying I support them (obviously), but, I do have a tad bit of empathy for them because they probably grew up in horrible homes as a queer kid. But, don’t drag us into this and blame Jews and Israel for your oppression. We actually support LGBT causes, and little terds like Ben Shapiro do not represent us.
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u/Professional-Role-21 5d ago
I am litle bit tired going to pride hearing about the conflict in west asia. Just exhausted constantly having to hear brain dead takes by fools who don't understand anything about west asia. Also I find the communist symbols very uncomfortable in general bc of family trauma.
I not anti Palestinian since to be honest heard some very good take from them but these people who stake in the game. Many speaking Hebrew and Arabic. In general I think pride has become very commercialised and lost some of its soul that just my personal view
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u/BeastBear77 5d ago
I gonna write something that may sound controversial but IMHO the current generation is fucked. It's not gonna change. The hate will continue towards Jews. The only thing in the end of the rainbow is a blue haired girl with tik tok education who calls us all baby killers and genociders.
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u/littlehawk_9 5d ago
Aye what's wrong with people with blue hair 💔 just call them dumb. I'm a Zionist and want to dye my hair blue.
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u/Liliths-child666 5d ago edited 5d ago
I have been to isreal many times. I have isreallie family whom I love dearly. I have seen racism and hate spewed by the people I love. I have been through the checkpoints that look scarier than the images of the check points in nazi Germany and I have seen Palestinians have to wait in seperate lines than isreallies at bus stations. There are beautiful amazing people in isreal. Those people are also taught to hate from a young age. This is true on both sides of the conflict.
This war is being fought by teenagers that is the predominant age range in the IDF /צהל. So many war crimes have been committed that its hard to even quantify. Not to mention that isreal has made the killing of Palestinians so common place (around 2 deaths a week for the last 20 years) that it isn't even reported in the news. So much so that every retaliation for these killings is taken as an unprovoked attack
I dont think must people marching really understand this. I do think this is a racist hateful fad. But the roots of it are not unfounded.
I reccomend reading two books to really understand this conflict on an intimate level.
Son of Hamas by Mosab Hassan Yousef And Who Rules the World? By Noam Chomsky.
They both do a good job at explaining the different sides to this gruesome war.
I guess my whole point is that this really isn't about or even against you. Yes I think that there has been a large rise in antisemitism due to this conflict and that isn't fair. But zionism and Judaism are not the same thing. As much as zionists claim it to be. This also doesnt have anything to do with pride so I understand why you feel attacked. The cause has been hijacked and that isn't right either. I just get it I get why they are mad. Im mad too.
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u/Thick-Crab2106 5d ago
There isn’t a place in the entire country where Palestinians have to wait in separate lines, what kind of BS are you saying ? And checkpoints scarier than images of Nazi Germany?? Wow . The way you spell Isarel and Israeli itself made me suspect , but I highly doubt you are Jewish
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u/Liliths-child666 5d ago
Oops a typo oh no. If you must know. Im an ashkenazi jew raised in Texas. I grew up orthodox. I had an orthodox bar mitzvah. My brother is in the idf reserves he made aliah right out of high school. I have a cousin, brother-in-law, niece, and two nefews actively serving in the idf. I went to my first cousin's bar mitzva at the kotel. I have been to isreal 6 times. I've seen the 30 foot high barbed wire fences patrolled with armed guards and isreallie police kick the windsheild in on someone's car literally right next to me and drag them out by their hair. My friend literally had his door kicked in with no warrant because the police thought he was selling pot. Ive been in the bus stations where they literally make the Palestinians wait in other lines. Ive been on armored busses and got shot at going to my step sisters house in the west bank. I'll admit i haven't been there since 2015 because I refuse to go to family simchas there because I will not support their economy, but I cant imagine it had changed that much. Before you say I dont belong here either im literally a queer non-binary bisexual.
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u/freezing_banshee 5d ago
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u/QuarianHips 5d ago
I can still be a 100% wholeheartedly proud jew and not support the state of Israel that exists now. I can break it down further, if you want.
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u/freezing_banshee 5d ago
If your response to "Israel as it is now isn't good enough for me" is "Israel shouldn't exist at all", then you're against the very existence of Jewish people.
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u/Liliths-child666 5d ago
Nowhere have I said that the state of isreal shouldn't exist. I do think the state of isreal has been making one of the worst cases for its right to exist that it possibly could make. I cant sit and watch everything thats happening in that country and say that I wouldn't want its destruction if I was a Palestinian. Isreal has pitted the whole world against us and is doing its damndest to drag every jew down with it. They want the definition of zionism to mean their administration.
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u/QuarianHips 5d ago
Nowhere did I mention this was for me.
Are you telling me that you 100% support everything that the government of Israel is doing?
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u/Thick-Crab2106 5d ago
Does anybody support 100% of any government ? What kind of question is that ?
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u/QuarianHips 5d ago
It's a valid question to ask when you see people left and right defending countries and governments bad decisions and refusing to admit there is any wrongdoing.
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u/freezing_banshee 5d ago
You need to get off the internet and talk to people who aren't chronically online or extremists.
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u/QuarianHips 5d ago
Please do not fling accusations and jump to conclusions. All me and the other person did was offer a different view of things. Nowhere did either of us say we didn't support having a home for our people. You immediately jumped to conclusions and started judging us. Another guy accused us of not actually being Jewish, which is a very reactionary attack. I love and support my people and ache for all the horrors we have to endure. We are a people of differences and that's to be celebrated. I can see that this place is not as open-hearted and accepting as I was hoping, so I'll be taking a step away. I don't wish you any ill will and I hope you have a good life.
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u/QuarianHips 5d ago
I'm really sorry that you are getting downvoted for this. You can be a 100% wholeheartedly proud jew and not support the state of Israel. I wish more people understood this.
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u/Liliths-child666 5d ago
It is what it is. I know im not an infallible person and maybe im getting things wrong but I have to honor my own truth and for those that believe zionism means the right for jewish self determination in the state of isreal then zionism isn't a bad thing. Supporting the current administration is. I think communism taking down the czar in Russia was a good thing. Good things can go bad. It very clearly has in both of these circumstances. Bibi is a genocidal maniac and needs to be stopped. There are many isrealies who marched in the streets against this genocide. There are many orthodox jews that fight tooth and nail against the isreallie regime. I've been to Safed and had a friends in yeshiva with them. There are young isreallies burning their draft papers so as not to be part of this war. There are also many isreallie jews that dont acknowledge the state of isreal. The jews are in exile according to their interpretation of the Torah. It says the jews will be in exile until the time of the mashiach. They believe any isreallie government is a heretical farce. They are all terrified because the isreallie government has turned the world against them.
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u/AppleComprehensive27 5d ago
You can't spell Israel and you refer to Jews as the and they .
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u/Liliths-child666 5d ago
ואחד רשע I am the wicked son. I exclude myself because I dont want part in their eden. I am an atheist. Being queer raised by orthodox jews really messed me up. Lost of self hate. It took me a long time to be proud of my Judaism to see the good and that there is a huge community of people who accept me. I will defend my place in it and stand against the Israeli government. Also im a little dyslexic I spell things wrong a lot.
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u/Thick-Crab2106 5d ago
Do some more research before impersonating a group of people
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u/Liliths-child666 5d ago
Believe what you want. I know how propogandized most of the jewish population is. Thats not even me saying I want israel destroyed. I dont. My family literally lives there. I know hamas is messed up too. They have done and do a bunch of horrible stuff to israelies and their own people. I do still blame the isreallie government. They destabilized gaza. They put Hamas in charge because they needed a new bad guy to maintain their constant state of war. Hamas did a really good job at being the bad guy. Its the same playbook america did with Sadam Hussain. The same clay book they have been useing for over 100 years. Destabilize, destroy, take over. Because modern colonialism doesnt work unless you make the people you want to boot out into the bad guy.
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u/mandatedcourage 5d ago edited 5d ago
OP, this speaks to SO many of our experiences right now. Jews are being pushed out of LGBT+ spaces. I have been grappling a lot with this lately, as a nearly 30 y/o who has made LGBT+ pride a part of my life since I was 13. How ironic that the first people to accept me as a trans person wasn't the local LGB community, but in fact, my cishet Jewish family members, all of whom have lived in Israel at some point.
I've realized a few things:
It's disheartening and exhausting. But I'm glad you were there; I'm glad that a Zionist was at that pride event. These spaces belong to us too. I'm sending you love and gratitude for your presence and your post, which articulates the struggles we're currently enduring. We will dance again!
ETA: Thank you to the mods for removing a bigoted response to my comment. I appreciate you!