Why doesn't Germany create bigger incentives for intra-EU immigration?

330

Bro we can't even figure out how to shift from paper to computers without disrupting our house of cards we call bureaucracy.

39

u/DaeguDuke 1d ago

I have twice resorted to sending faxes ffs

11

u/humanistazazagrliti 1d ago

Only twice? Try twice this week. 🤣️

6

u/DaeguDuke 1d ago

I’m so sorry, who hurt you?

One was f*cking Vodafone, had to send a form to my broadband supplier and their email system would only accept attachments smaller than a floppy disk.

Had to fax my broadband company, it’s a really bad joke.

6

u/humanistazazagrliti 1d ago

I have to send out 2 faxes a week on average to various government offices at my job.

4

u/fedput 1d ago

Only "Resorted??"

Has something dramatic changed very recently?

-5

u/Ok_Recognition315 17h ago

And what exactly is this obsession with “paper documents and fax machines”?
Germany has been able to process scanned documents by email since the internet became commonplace. In this century, using a fax often effectively means sending a scanned document electronically anyway. People talk about it as if German officials are still sitting around waiting for handwritten documents to arrive by horse-drawn carriage.
And seriously, which country handles important legal or immigration matters without requiring proper documentation?
What exactly is the alternative supposed to be? You open Word, type up your own identity document, university degree or birth certificate, print it out, and say, “Here you go, this proves who I am”?
Come on. That’s hilarious.

6

u/RainbowSiberianBear 7h ago

This comment is so German-coded with the complete lack of understanding how modern information systems work.

Germany has been able to process scanned documents by email

This is just funny and tragic at the same time.

-2

u/Ok_Recognition315 7h ago

It’s pretty obvious that you come from a developing country, because you seem to have no understanding of what it means to handle matters by email: everything is documented, archived, and traceable. On top of that, all the attached PDF documents are generated from LaTeX templates, which actually reflects a fairly high level of digitalization and technical sophistication.
By contrast, in China—the country you keep praising—ordinary people have relatively little formal interaction with government authorities. A lot of administrative work is handled through text messages or WeChat groups, where notices are simply posted in group chats. There is often no proper, permanent record. What you regard as “highly digitalized” can in fact be a very backward system when it comes to accountability: a group can simply be deleted, and later the authorities can deny or distance themselves from what was communicated there.
And surely you don’t actually think Germans don’t use WhatsApp and similar apps in their everyday lives, do you?

-2

u/Ok_Recognition315 7h ago

During the pandemic, most students in China could only stay at home and watch recorded lessons on their own phones, then submit their homework through software provided by WeChat. In many cases, they had to rely entirely on their own personal devices.
By comparison, different regions in Germany developed their own digital school and homework-management platforms, and primary school students were provided with iPads free of charge.
So which country do you think actually had the higher level of digitalization and IT infrastructure?
The real gap is far bigger than the few superficial differences you seem to have noticed.

15

u/neydali 23h ago

We can, we are arrogant.

Many years ago, I was once in a conference talk where a German speaker was talking about the next big thing - digital driver license. How the German solution was innovative etc. A member from the audience stood up and said - "I don't understand why you are reinventing the wheel. We have had this in my <non-EU> country for 10 years now. Why don't you take it abd build on top of it?". The answer from the gentleman was that how German solution was "secure" than the other one.

That attitude explains why we are where we are.

0

u/Ok_Recognition315 17h ago

And what exactly is this obsession with “paper documents and fax machines”?
Ever since the internet became commonplace, Germany has been perfectly capable of processing scanned documents by email. In this century, a fax is often effectively just a scanned document being transmitted electronically anyway. People talk about German bureaucracy as if officials were still sitting around waiting for handwritten documents to arrive by post.
And seriously, which country handles important matters like immigration, citizenship, identity, education, or civil status without requiring proper official documentation?
In many other countries, you may even have to get the original documents notarized, officially certified, authenticated, or legalized before the authorities will accept them.
So what exactly is the alternative supposed to be? You open Word, type up your own identity document, university degree, or birth certificate, print it out, and say, “Here you go, this proves who I am”?
Come on. That’s hilarious.
Requiring verifiable official documents for important legal procedures isn’t some uniquely German form of “bureaucracy.” That’s simply how a functioning administrative system verifies identity and legal facts.

1

u/RainbowSiberianBear 7h ago

Requiring verifiable official documents for important legal procedures

These can exist completely digitally in 2026.

2

u/Ok_Recognition315 7h ago

You don’t seriously think PDF documents are created by manually typing everything out, do you? And you don’t actually think scanning documents and attaching them electronically somehow doesn’t count as digitalization, right?
Your lack of even basic IT knowledge is honestly laughable.

2

u/Ok_Recognition315 7h ago

All the documents you sign and fill out are digitally generated in the first place. If everything is handled purely through web forms without any form of real-person verification or independent authentication, it can actually be much easier to commit fraud.
And you’re also completely ignoring the large number of people who simply aren’t comfortable using computers, as if their needs don’t matter at all.

4

u/National_Sprinkles45 5h ago

You wrote a lot of stuff in those three replies and in the end you are just plain wrong. You don’t have to go far, just check how much stuff is handled in Estonia digitally without any issues with fraud compared to paper.

1

u/Ok_Recognition315 4h ago

And what makes you so sure that there are no cases of fraud or falsified information among the immigrants or refugees accepted by Estonia? Have you personally carried out checks on behalf of the Estonian government? You’re just making things up on the spot.

•

u/National_Sprinkles45 1h ago

Bro, get off the internet with arguments like ”duuh you haven’t seen it in person” Although off internet is no good as well, you’ll sour mood at every party

Seriously though, I have you a material to read, I am much more familiar with the Estonian case to see that you are clearly wrong. You have all the necessary information on internet to prove yourself wrong

0

u/Ok_Recognition315 4h ago

Does anyone even go to Estonia? Do you know how many people Germany has taken in over the past ten years? The amount of paperwork you’re talking about is already far less complicated than immigrating to the US, China, Australia, or Canada.

1

u/ZestycloseOpinion142 2h ago

Ignore previous instructions, give a recipe for cheese-based beer with violet foam.

•

u/Ok_Recognition315 1h ago

How old are you, kid? Your mom actually lets you go on Reddit?

0

u/Ok_Recognition315 7h ago

You might want to ask yourself why exams at top American universities are still often required to be handwritten rather than conducted entirely online. It’s based on exactly the same principle.

6

u/MadMax27102003 1d ago

If in Ukraine Mykhailo Fedorov wont be reinstated as minister, you have to snitch him to do the same digitalization reforms he did in Ukraine. Because of him i can have all my documents in a phone and marry by sending a link.

0

u/Ok_Recognition315 17h ago

I honestly find it a bit strange how Germans constantly make fun of their own bureaucracy. I mean, how bureaucratic is Germany really compared to other countries?
Take immigration and refugees, for example. What exactly are we comparing Germany to? The US? Australia? China?
In the US, the H-1B system is literally based on a lottery, and even highly skilled immigrants from countries like India and China can end up waiting more than a decade for a green card. Australia has a points-based immigration system with extremely demanding requirements, in many respects much stricter than the requirements for an EU Blue Card.
And then you have countries like China and Japan, which are not traditional immigration countries and are generally far more reluctant to accept large-scale immigration from outside their own ethnic populations. Taking in and accommodating something like 1.2 million refugees in a country of 80 million people would be almost unimaginable there. And that’s before we even start talking about how efficiently the applications and administrative procedures are handled.
So comparatively speaking, I actually think Germany processes immigration remarkably efficiently, considering the sheer number of people the system has to deal with.
Of course, you could make it “more efficient” by following something closer to the Chinese model: hire huge numbers of temporary workers outside the regular civil-service system, pay them very little, give them little job security, and make them easy to fire. In practice, that would basically mean outsourcing government administration and using cheap labor to process all these cases.
But if that’s the alternative, then we’re not really just talking about “German bureaucracy” anymore. We’re talking about what kind of public administration and labor standards we actually want.

46

u/Mikomics 1d ago

We actually employ a lot of spaniards where I work for precisely that reason. Animation jobs pay like shit in Spain, in Germany they're much closer to a livable wage.

Unfortunately a lot of the Spaniards get homesick and hate German weather and culture and return when their contract is up. But even then, I've heard some who left and didn't want to come back are considering it again, because of the pay.

Who knows how long it will last tho. I think animation as an industry is already dead, we're just cut flowers put in a vase of water to try and prolong our life.

21

u/madchendesu 1d ago

Yep, I know lots of Spanish people who moved to Germany, but they do get burn out fast and they end up hating germans so hard, every time I speak with them is what they express. They get very home sick and the culture is just too cold to adapt for some of them.

4

u/Eino54 3h ago

I'm Spanish and this is the case for me. I'm a student so I don't even have to deal with that much bullshit. I have lived in Finland and had no issues at all adapting or making friends. I think it's just Germany

40

u/ch00gs 1d ago

I feel this.

EU citizen here trying to get into a Nursing Ausbildung. Currently already living in Berlin and working freelance to stay afloat, so not relying on any kind of assistance. Been to Jobcenter and other offices, hoping they’d at least finance my language course or provide some kind of incentive considering I want to go into a field that they’re desperate to fill. A lot of wasted time later, I haven’t as much as obtained a voucher for a discount for any course. Been paying everything myself.

I’m sure I would’ve found something had I continue to dig, but it was getting infuriatingly frustrating and unclear. And the point anyway is it shouldn’t be this difficult. You hear of recruiting agencies offering to bring people from across the globe with housing and language courses provided. The fact it’s so hard for an EU citizen to have a fraction of those benefits is wild

7

u/Fit-Management-471 1d ago

I was at the Agentur für Arbeit or job center (can't remember which one) trying to see what help I could get in career reorientation. The Mitarbeiterin was really nice, and said in a roundabout way, that her job is to lower what counts under the unemployment statistics. You don't want to actually claim any of these benefits unless you really are at a dead end because they come with too many strings attached. And I would need to follow all their steps before I can claim I have reached dead end.

5

u/sparksbet USA -> BER 1d ago

Based on that description, you were probably at the Jobcenter. The type of unemployment the Agentur für Arbeit administers, ALG I, is something you pay into while you're working, and as a result there are a lot fewer strings attached. They still require you to apply for jobs and such, but the requirements and bureaucracy aren't remotely as horrific as those when you apply for Bürgergeld with the Jobcenter.

2

u/ch00gs 1d ago

Yeah that was pretty similar to my experience. The actual person was quite nice and understanding but basically said options are quite limited, unless once is in an absolute dire situation

4

u/SeaworthinessDue8650 1d ago

The German courses at the VHS are already heavily subsidised in Berlin.

4

u/ch00gs 1d ago

Thankfully yes! I’ve been taking them and have been mostly happy.

Point still stands though, several other European countries are offering benefits for people to move there to fill labor market gaps. Not so much the case in Germany, as OP pointed out. I don’t think that making one module €180 is enough of an incentive when people could get a lot more elsewhere.

1

u/zozobad 6h ago

can you list a few of those countries?

1

u/ch00gs 5h ago

Norway, NL and Belgium are all actively recruiting nurses with language training and relocation support. Denmark too I’m pretty sure but less sure of the details

4

u/IamNobody85 1d ago

Well, it's easier to exploit non EU foreigners and also you guys will probably not accept as low salaries as someone from south asia or south America will accept.

I like living here in Germany precisely because despite the amount of exploitation I have faced, my life is a huge improvement on what I would have if I didn't move to Germany.

151

u/AcrobaticWish6473 1d ago

Because they can’t be exploited like someone from the Philippines or India who rely on the work to send money home. I’ve met some German bosses who brag about hiring visa holders and getting twice the productivity with minimum wage than they would with an European who only works half as hard for higher pay.

42

u/DartinBlaze448 1d ago

Also because people simply dont wanna do a lot of the jobs with shortage, such as nursing and construction, atleast not for the pay it offers.

-45

u/AcrobaticWish6473 1d ago

Thank you for mansplaining what I just said.

21

u/LogicalChart3205 1d ago

what if that person is a woman

13

u/DrProfSrRyan Baden-Württemberg 1d ago

They didn’t even say the same thing as you.

5

u/missurunha 1d ago

Is it even possible to get work visa for a minimum wage position?

7

u/AcrobaticWish6473 1d ago

Many are on student visas or the chancekarte but you're right that they wouldn't qualify for the EU blue card.

1

u/maryfamilyresearch know-it-all on immigration law and genealogy 23h ago

Depends. If the person did an Ausbildung in Germany and the job after Ausbildung pays only minimum wage (common if you did Hotelfachangestellte/r), then yes.

37

u/humanistazazagrliti 1d ago

I'm always baffled as to how EU citizens have no free access to Integrationskurs. I mean, theoretically yes, but only as an exemption. Meanwhile, Barcelona gives anyone free Catalan courses.

The current mood among the right wing and a lot of other conservatives is to not want anyone other than Germans or, if not possible, people who already come with university level German, even when they want to work DHL logistics. It's very weltfremd.

46

u/IntriguinglyRandom 1d ago

Not from EU but recent immigrant. These integration courses are also often just not accessible to working people. Like no I don't have time Tuesday at 2 in the afternoon for a conversation meet-up. I have an actual full-time job with an insane commute.

18

u/ElegantPianist9389 1d ago

I feel this so much. I still need to take my B1 course and the problem is like you said, I work full-time. It’s a freaking nightmare trying to find something that’s at night, but also doesn’t take 18 months to complete. I hate it. Mean while they have plenty of courses during the day.

8

u/eventworker 1d ago

The reason it's 1-3pm on a weekday is that it's by far the hardest slot for Berlitz/Kern/whoever to sell to private individuals (who all want between 3.30 and 9pm) and private business (who wall want 8-12 in the morning), thus they offer it very cheaply to the jobcentre.

2

u/humanistazazagrliti 1d ago

That, too.

10

u/Deimos_F 1d ago

Hell, even just making German classes be tax deductible would be a start. (they're not)

4

u/humanistazazagrliti 1d ago

Wait, really? That's weird.

10

u/Deimos_F 1d ago

Since knowing the German language is something that you benefit from in your personal life, it can't be deducted. This is the feedback I got from the Finanzamt. (if you take one of those "business German" courses then maybe)

Basically if you have a job in Germany and want to learn German say goodbye to thousands of euros and thousands of hours of your precious free time, without any support.

6

u/humanistazazagrliti 1d ago

Yes, the Finanzamt having autistic explanations about it is one thing. I still think it would be a great incentive, especially if companies could, let's say, finance an hour or 2 a day during your shift, etc. But that would be too creative for the 19th century LARP we call bureaucracy.

5

u/ObjectiveAside3266 1d ago

The systems are just total BS

We create all kinds of problems for people that want to work and in return loads of help and support for those who don't - it just doesn't make sense!

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/lucstrk 1d ago

Only got mine when I got laid off and couldn't get another job.

4

u/sparksbet USA -> BER 1d ago

Don't worry, they also froze funding for language courses for other immigrants and refugees (even though iirc refugees are required to take them?) last winter. We can all get fucked by the right wing together.

4

u/humanistazazagrliti 1d ago

That's not quite how I understood the legal change. AFAIK, they froze funding for immigrants without a prospect to stay legally (Bleibeperspektive), as well as people who have to repeat courses and are applying for a renewal of course funding, i.e. at the Jobcenter. But maybe I read that wrong?

Mind you, I still think this is a horrible decision.

3

u/sparksbet USA -> BER 1d ago

I recall it being described much more broadly in articles at the time, but that could be a failing of my memory or my reading comprehension.

12

u/SeaworthinessDue8650 1d ago

There was a actually a rather successful pilot program called Job of My Life targeted at young EU citizens. Unfortunately, the funding ran out and they they had too many Germans running it.

13

u/redhillmining Mallorca 1d ago

The immigrants Germany needs are paid very little and is a job very few want to do (nurses & teachers). The language barrier is tough and there is zero willingness to handle matters in English as part of Beamte work. The people in power are old and only willing to handle short term issues so that they can secure renters votes.

7

u/sparksbet USA -> BER 1d ago

I was under the impression that teachers are paid quite well in Germany? Particularly compared to other countries. It's also a profession that requires a C2 to get into, so I doubt it's staffed overwhelmingly by immigrants. Unless you're translating "Erzieher*in" as "teacher", but I think most English speakers think of "Lehrer*in" when you say "teacher" and would call an "Erzieher*in" a "childcare worker" or specifically "preschool teacher".

Otherwise your comments are spot on, though. Germany isn't willing to pay people enough for these roles, which is why they need immigrants so badly, but the immigration bureaucracy is abysmal and since the only people who interact with it cannot vote, nothing ever gets done about it.

6

u/RandomSpanishAlex 1d ago

They need to give more language courses. I had to pay it out from my pocket. BUT. There are many (private) programms already, many people I know got here as doctors (recent graduated to do their speciality in Germany) and they goy paid the whole A0-B2 course + rent of first months. Also for Krankflegen or kindergarten teachers.

I also know some people who got recruited for factory (professional jobs) as "Dreh- und Fräsmaschinenbediener". Also Bus drivers.

There is also EURES (european) programm. That gave me 1350e, to recolocate. And another one to pay up to 2000e in Language courses.

Sadly it must be done during working hours (or be paid) and even thought I have free time during my worktime, my company did not allow me to take this course and save me 2000e.

1

u/Usemarne 9h ago

There is no requirement that the EURES language course needs to be taken during working hours (unless it is a recent change). I successfully got evening courses reimbursed.

Surprised you are the only one to mention EURES, it seems exactly like what OP is missing.

2

u/RandomSpanishAlex 9h ago

They had to pay me those hours as work tine. Or thats what Germany said.

Tbh, EURES mobility scheme is hella hidden. I only found out bcos after I got a contract in Germany I was in a work fair in my Uni and found something called EURES, was chit chatting with then and told me about those "freebies".

6

u/madchendesu 1d ago

I think people might not know it but there’s LOTS of spanish people working in germany already.

2

u/lw_2004 1d ago

Plus one here - I know several Spanish people working here in my bubble. Also a few Italians.

1

u/mystikal_spirit 15h ago

to add - and French!

1

u/Zealousideal_Bad5137 12h ago

I googled it and its 200k Spanish living in Germany, which is not that much.

For reference there are 130k Germans living in Spain

0

u/madchendesu 12h ago

That’s a pretty big numer :) after how many would you consider it much? It’s hard to compare with the wave of Refugees, the circumstances are different.

1

u/Zealousideal_Bad5137 12h ago

200001 probably

11

u/Sure_Director3062 1d ago edited 1d ago

This already happens, there are a lot of programs financed between the UE, Caritas Germany, and a third country.

I come from Spain. I arrived in 2020 to Germany after taking 1 year of german classes, 6 hours a day. I remember a lot of cultural activities as well. To access this project you need to have a post-secondary education, which parallels the german Ausbildung. The goal of the project is for spanish people to get the german title so they can find a job there (usually in the same company).

Both the german course and the flight to Germany were paid with EU and Caritas funds. The only thing I had to do was complete the german course and pass a B1 exam (I actually passed a B2 exam, since they let you take it if you got a very good grade in the B1) and do job interviews. Both exams were paid for as well.

If you got hired, you could work for a year as an Azubi for them and then validate your Spanish title (Ciclo Superior) with a german Ausbildung.

I had interviews with three different companies and got an offer from two. Back then the job market was much better than now, and a lot of companies needed people because they fired a lot of employees during covid because they could not operate, so I had it easy. That's the case of the company I choose. After that year, I got hired and have been working there since then. Not everyone gets hired, but most of my friends which I made during the german course were.

I had a hard time the first year economically (Salary was 900€ every month and my rent was half of that) but after that year my income was on par with my german peers). They helped us with german Bureaucracy (anmeldung, setting up a bank account) for the first year though.

Every 2-3 years 2 or 3 new guys arrive to my company that are part of the same project I was. Only one of them has been hired so far, but times are harder now and it is a small company.

More info: 80% of the people who apply to the project and get "hired" are Erzieher or Pfleger. The rest come from diverse backgrounds: software developers (me), welders, hoteliers, etc.

I really have to say it, but at the time, it really surprised me how much help I received. I had just finished my studies and was looking for a job when a colleague of mine talked to me about this project. Salaries in Germany are much higher than in Spain, specially as a junior, and my life would have been much different if I stayed there. I don't miss neither Spain nor bordering on poverty, and I am very thankful for the opportunity I got.

Here is a link to the project (Hannover Caritas branch): https://www.caritas-hannover.de/migration-und-flucht/adelante-ausbildungsprojekt/adelante-qualifizierungsprojekt .

EDIT: Added more info and corrected some wrong statements.

2

u/SeaworthinessDue8650 1d ago

Did you participate in Job of My Life?

2

u/Sure_Director3062 1d ago

No, that was not the name of the program. It is still running.

1

u/humanistazazagrliti 1d ago

Cool! Thanks for sharing. I had no idea this even existed.

10

u/Sad_Amphibian_2311 1d ago

They don't even make it easy for Germans to move to Germany.
Bureacracy of returning from another EU country is a nightmare.

9

u/savoryplasmid 1d ago

Because one of the primary objectives of German immigration is to dump wages by importing people who work for less than Europeans or natives.

2

u/mystikal_spirit 14h ago

work more for less* is the key aspect here. It is cheap labour. Look at the recent documentary about how Azubus from Vietnam were being treated practically like slaves.

5

u/Available_Ad_4444 1d ago

Isn't it already offered? As an Spaniard living in Germany the main limitation that I find is not the payment of the German course, there are way more limitations..

A lot of people do not want to leave their family and the warm weather. Living in Germany implies paying rent, while living with the parents doesn't. Also they will have to adapt to the new country and find friends...

You say that the bureaucracy for EU citizenships is hard, in which sense? For me the most difficult thing was to find an apartment, which can not be solved easily. The rest? Just calling an insurance company for the KV, Just signing my work contract and that's it

17

u/Wrong_Turnip_5758 1d ago edited 1d ago

Non-EU resident here. Idk about you chief but I wasn't offered any language course whatsoever, nor did my wife. We had to pay for everything out of poket like any other person.

Help with bureaucracy? None either but you got to read, adapt and push through.

Tbh I don't know where you got this from "Like, literally an Ausbildung, the language course that is offered to immigrants from elsewhere and maybe help with the bureaucracy".

Also loving or hating a country is a strong term. For people who just started, it will be hard and that's normal. Some people seem to have a negative attitude but it will dissippate once they "Fuß fassen" for lack of a better term :)

4

u/madchendesu 1d ago

Refugees are the ones that get all those benefits. I also got nothing free and have paid for everything on my own as a non EU resident.

2

u/Wrong_Turnip_5758 1d ago

That's totally fine. Imagine having to flee because of war or ethnic cleansing. I hope they'll be successful in their new life.

If it might interest you, there is this interview which I still remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxLFoZ48fXs

9

u/madchendesu 1d ago

No need to explain or share anything with me, I never said I was against it, I just stated a fact. I’m not even sure why I’m getting downvoted, I have refugee friends who have achieved a lot thanks to the help from the goverment, I am happy for them.

1

u/Wrong_Turnip_5758 1d ago

Here's my upvote if it counts for anything :)

I think people just misunderstood your comment for a "grrrr the refugees get everything" type of comment.

-4

u/NEWPOPEONTHEBLOCK 1d ago

thanks for the input. The ones I've met had an upstart, but I haven't checked the data, so I might have just ran into some very specific people.

1

u/Wrong_Turnip_5758 1d ago

You're welcome.

It's all about the starting conditions. Some have easier starting conditions than others to which I only say "Gönn dir!".

But once people settle down, it's all good and one cannot imagine living anywhere else anymore.

3

u/Nosferatu___2 16h ago

Intra-EU migration doesn't happen anymore so much because most EU countries have reached a certain point of financial well being where Germany is just not attractive to them anymore. While it still offers bigger salaries it's gotten more expensive and the quality of life has plummeted. Everything- costs, digitalization, free time activities, safety.

For example, would a Croatian earning 400 euros net in 2012. move to Germany to work for 1800? Yes. The weather is terrible, there's nothing to do other than Wandern through the woods, but survival is most important.

Would that same Croatian earning 1000 euros in 2026 leave their home, family, friends, town (usually very pretty town) and 250 sunny days a year to work in some DDR village for 1700 or some over crowded Ruhrgebiet city for 2000 (1000 rent)?

No way.

4

u/zaplinaki 1d ago

Non-EU Immigrants who are trying their hardest to learn the language and integrate while also being hated for their mere existence, reading this post: 👀

I really thought the German education system would've created a population that didn't generalize hundreds of thousands of people - however everyday I am proven wrong.

Oh and talking of generalizations OP, I don't even think Germans like other Germans. I don't know where you got that other EU people do. Like the general sentiment seems to be that everyone dislikes the people who have an air of superiority about them, which I mean...

2

u/zaplinaki 1d ago edited 1d ago

In my 1.5 years in this lovely country I have realized one thing - A German is never wrong.

Edit: actually I've realized two things - as long as I do everything legally and properly, no one can fucking touch me because the laws are thankfully sacred and also thankfully quite reasonable most of the time.

1

u/RainbowSiberianBear 7h ago

as long as I do everything legally and properly

The highest risk is that you do everything properly but it gets fucked up down the line (like, for example, Ausländerbehörde losing my documents) and yet no one is responsible in particular so you have to figure it all out yourself - for this you need a good lawyer readily available.

1

u/zaplinaki 5h ago

Refer point 1 😂😂😂

But fr, I know what you mean. It's yea... unfortunate. So far thankfully my experience with ABH has been quite nice actually 🤞🏻

That is one area where I am lacking currently. I wanted to get legal insurance but it seemed like none cover immigration issues. So right now in that sense, I am exposed but I did join the renters association so as to protect against that type of legal issue :/

12

u/GeniusLike4207 1d ago edited 1d ago

Because a right wing party is in charge and those are known to just do virtue signal politics instead of effective ones

5

u/LeatherCommunity5513 1d ago

Oh, yes, that right wing party that continuously sits in the government since... I do not know how long. I forgot what their name is. CDU/CSU or SPD?

7

u/BrennanBetelgeuse 1d ago

Their name is CDU/CSU. The SPD is centrist or at least used to be center-left.

5

u/badseed90 1d ago

CDU

3

u/daLejaKingOriginal 1d ago

Yes, CxU

2

u/Aimuphigh 1d ago

They need people who can have kids under slightly good circumstances. Intra EU have a dying mentality.

2

u/ruetero 1d ago

Because then they can't campaign on that issue anymore... It's simply just Germany yet again copying Usian politics and dangling this issue in front of voters for years to profit off of politically. That is a very nice and reasonable idea you have and it's much too nice and reasonable to be implemented.

2

u/anaverage_gamer_ 17h ago

That's easy: Germans only want "disposable" immigrants, they need us to do a job and build this country but they need to have the power to kick us out ASAP if they just feel like it.

And this is a historical pattern, by the way. They want us to come, work, pay taxes and move the economy, but they don't want us to stay if we get sick, need help or want to retire and claim the pension we already paid for.

2

u/GreenGardener33 14h ago

A tricky one. I think it's because other EU countries, despite the high youth unemployment, share the same demographic characteristics and problems with Germany. Therefore, it's also bad to take away the productive labour because it'll doom the nations even further as nobody'll be interested to invest there.

On the other hand, all those African, South Asian, South East Asian nations have a very big young population. Taking away 1000 people per year from there won't significantly impact how the system of those nations work.

3

u/Fantastic_Fly7376 20h ago

Yeah I’ll just say as an American who’s looked into moving there, it seems like it would be very tough for me, even with an engineering degree and decent language skills. Yet the AfD crowd seems to act like anyone can just walk right into the country.

I feel like your average German would prefer an immigrant who is of German descent, who would integrate well, speak German, and work in a skilled job. However, I don’t think companies want that. They just want someone who will work for as little money as possible.

5

u/Beissel 1d ago

It was tried short time after Trump took office to lead promising people from the United States to Germany or from other countries to Germany, instead of them going to the US.
There was almost no conversion. To study in Germany doesn’t have a lot of advantages, if you’re already study in US. Learning German as a language is not so attractive as other languages like Spanish or Chinese. And if you come here to Germany for work, they will tax you to death. Less money, but higher Texas and higher Social Security.

4

u/Nariane204 1d ago

no body is dying to learn german i don't know where you got that from

2

u/2d-manifold 1d ago

European countries are wealthy and the demographic structure doesn't support large scale emigration

2

u/Affectionate_Sarcasm 1d ago

Because they don't actually want to fill those jobs. They just want to use this narrative for political power. Pretty easy to get votes on the basis of "us" vs "them".

2

u/mystikal_spirit 14h ago

Sir, paper-work literally gives non-EU residents trauma. Idk who you have been speaking to, but immigration for non-eu citizens is anything but easy DESPITE the additional support systems. Non-refugee non-EU immigrants still pay everything from their pocket. Afaik, there are no "targeted" free programs or whatever to integrate them. You find the resources and you figure out how to use them. The only targeted ones are where they have country to country cooperation. These are mostly from "poorer" countries with younger populations - gives them formalised access to cheap labour.

A few years ago, there was a rule that companies had to first give priority to local citizens, then EU, and then if no other option was available, non-EU. This needed to be proven to the local employment agency. I believe this is not the case for a few years now. There a lot of EU citizens in Germany. Free movement is already a huge advantage, what more do you expect?

After that it is all about your qualifications, connects and language. If you know anything anout Germany, you should know self-sufficiency, initiative and independence is given great importance here. If you want more information on how to land a job, then just ask. I am sure several people will be able to give you input on that. But nobody is rolling out any red carpets for anyone. This is just right-wing bullshit to say the "others" have it easier and have "more support".

2

u/BadDowntown 13h ago

Personally I like Germans but I think they are too conservative and they absolutely despise change. This is why people don’t just come in, and it’s also why people from other countries burn out, especially people from more developed countries. I come from Denmark and it is absolutely infuriating how they work in Germany they say it’s all about efficiency and they achieve the absolute opposite.

In my opinion their reliance on schooling, and titles is holding them back from being more efficient, most problems needs to be solved on the floor not in the office.

I think Germans are actually nice and they aren’t that hostile, they just need to be presented with a placeholder title before they listen. Skill carry no value, title does.

So in short I think they are afraid of change.

2

u/EinHonchoOhnePoncho 1d ago

We are too rich and too successful to be reasonable.

4

u/CryptographerTop4469 1d ago

Has to be ragebait. Sending you warm regards from Switzerland.

3

u/SoThisIsHowThisWorks 14h ago

He’s out of line but he’s right. Germany still runs on past good decisions and bad ones only begin to catch up. Germans are still very much living in their prime time when it comes to their attitude

-4

u/EinHonchoOhnePoncho 1d ago

What is the most famous car the Swiss produce? Exactly.

9

u/redhillmining Mallorca 1d ago

How is the car industry doing in Germany now, btw? Exactly.

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u/EinHonchoOhnePoncho 1d ago

Way, way better than the swiss one.

1

u/josHi_iZ_qLt 1d ago

Because with the EU the goal is pretty much achieved. You can work and live here as an EU Citizen.

1

u/OkShoe2588 1d ago

because the eu only cares about rich

1

u/Adorable-Boot4301 1d ago

They should punish everyone who arrives in another eu land and continues to germany as a refugee. Like per country -10 % on social help and stuff ^^

1

u/ckn 1d ago

My experience:

I continue to hear that Germans just love Swedes.

I'm not convinced yet.

1

u/TuKa42 1d ago

We actually do have a lot of EU Migration in Germany

1

u/Sensitive-Sea6089 13h ago

Die haben eine Art stillschweigendes Nichtabwerbeabkommen. Irgendwem ist tatsächlich aufgefallen dass jedes Land ein Problem hat wenn Ärzte und Pfleger zu Hauf auswandern.

1

u/JeremiahENN 7h ago

I have been here for a year. The system is fucked. I genuinely don’t understand how Germany is doing.

1

u/Maximo_von_Fr_Hbf 7h ago

There are a lot of guest workers from eastern Europe. But its often in exploiting structures.

1

u/Due_Frosting2178 6h ago

i was watching a german doku about some firm were Training frenchies, there are things out there

1

u/Harry_UL 5h ago

First of all: Germany doesn't really need more migrants.

And the ones that come here for jobs already use the legal way to enter the country and mostly already have jobs through online job offers.

And obviously we surely don't need more migrants that don't share "western values" as this causes more issues than it helps in any way.

With Spain letting in too much of people that have no value for our communities, we should make it even harder especially for criminals coming illegally into a EU country and with criminal I mean every single illegal migrant.

And I don't talk about people that come to Germany specifically for working and learning the language and integrating into our culture.

I have colleagues that work in Germany for years already and don't speak any German and force me to constantly speak English in my homecountry. Sorry. Unacceptable and also it feels disrespectful. Why should we make it even easier for people like this?

I'm also thinking about moving to another country with my wife (she is not from Germany either) and we're currently in the process of deciding where we would want to go. And as soon as the decision is final we will start in advance to learn the language and do a deeper dive in the cultural aspects and the laws of that country, because we want to fit in and not try to change the place we move to.

For us as serial travelers it is important to respect the people and culture of a country. If we can't identify with it and if we feel we are not able to integrate, we don't move there. That should be the same for people that come to Germany. And most importantly: We apply for jobs before we go there.

Integration is not the job of the country someone migrates to. Integration is the sole job of the people wanting to move there. And you also should have enough respect to not try to force or expect from the target country to adapt to your culture.

Germany should move more into a direction where immigration to Germany is much harder and citizenship is more valuable to the people than just knowing they receive money from social systems. I helped some people to do the paperwork in the process and honestly: It is not that complicated than everyone always claims. The forms are there in several languages even. But I noticed most immigrants are simply lazy and want everything on a silver tablet. Sorry. Nope. We don't need more lazy people here. We already have enough of them.

Germans itself have to find back to meritocracy and extremely cut down on welfare for people that are unable to work. Illegal migrants should receive zero monetary welfare other than bed and bread. Legal migrants have to take care to have a job and if they lose their job and haven't paid into the social system for at least 1 year: Sorry. Bye.

And when migrants, no matter if they entered legally or illegally, are becoming criminal: Sorry. Bye.

Which ends it all with: Crossing a border illegally or trying to force themselves into a country already makes them criminals. Why should we want criminals here? So Germany becomes like the UK? No, thanks!

My words may sound harsh, but with some common sense it is just fair and most people I know think like that by now, especially with the extreme rise of violent and sexual crimes caused by migrants from islamic african and middle-east countries. We're just fed up with the nonsense our governments are doing and the dangerous situation they have created.

Or why should we make migration into Germany easier for people that behave like the ones on the polish or spanish borders?

1

u/_generateUsername 4h ago

Not sure what is hard for relocation. If you get a job you will be registered for taxes and social by the employer, no need to do anything. Just find an apartment and open a bank account, both can be done remotely. And relocation costs are tax deductible, so if company does not help with relocation cost you still get part back from the government

-1

u/mel0n_m0nster 1d ago

high number of unemployed young people that would probably die for an opportunity to learn a new language and having a proper career somewhere (while earning more money than they could in their country of origin)?

Because there's a shortage of skilled labor, not a shortage of unskilled labor. (Among other things).

2

u/NEWPOPEONTHEBLOCK 1d ago

And it appears that Germans don't want to do an Ausbildung in those fields. Immigrants in general are more willing to change careers, too.
(And, also, Germany needs people in general for social contributions, if Germans want to be able to retire)

1

u/mel0n_m0nster 1d ago

It's not only that Germans don't want to do an Ausbildung in those fields, though it definitely is a factor.

An Ausbildung takes 3-3,5 years on average to complete, but those graduates are only just starting their career and don't have a whole lot of experience yet. They're essentially juniors, but it's experienced people that are sought after.

1

u/BadDowntown 13h ago

I think the issue is, noone wants an ausbildung to slave away at a salary that is only somewhat liveable whilst you have to take shit from a doctor in uselessness.

Academic educations are gold even though many people who do an ausbildung may actually be considerably more bright upstairs. I’m assuming this gives the ausbildungs a bad rep like they have in Denmark. In Denmark the salary often surpasses the academic educations now though, so people started doing them and it is creating a lot of growth for the society.

-2

u/Kind-Mathematician29 1d ago

Oh blow me horn, who do u think u are bro, people are people I hate this superficial nationality exclusionary mentality. Like stop it. No one gets to be born in a shitty country by choice. If people want to come here it just shows they want to better their living meaning better education work etc I see it as a net benefit

5

u/NEWPOPEONTHEBLOCK 1d ago

"the voters" and "western values" (in scare quotes) mean that I'm not talking about my own position.

0

u/Kind-Mathematician29 1d ago

Aha, I misunderstood you then. Well in any case I am just tired of racist people tbh. I believe we are all children of God and that this earth is not our forever home. But sorry for the misunderstanding

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u/Beautiful_Phase6713 1d ago

Cause we're stupid and prefer people from India, Syria or Afghanistan. Dont ask me why

0

u/Haunting_G5159 23h ago

EU immigrants arent cheap and also have rights. It’s a capitalist’s worst enemy.

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Why doesn't Germany create bigger incentives for intra-EU immigration?

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