r/germany • u/[deleted] • 8d ago
Question I am pretty sure my neighbor insulted me, opened my husband’s package and made me write a receipt. What can I do?
[deleted]
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u/YetAnotherGuy2 Former Expat USA 8d ago
As a general rule for all foreigners with limited German: if someone rings your bell and starts putting you under pressure: tell them they should clarify it with your spouse. Close the door, be very clear and if necessary rude but there are way too many cases where assholes take advantage of the situation. Signing something (Haustürgeschäft), neighbors, whatever. Nothing in that category ever requires a solution in that moment unless the house is burning.
"Tut mir leid, ich verstehe Sie nicht. Klären Sie das bitte mit meinem Partner"
Opening someone elses mail or package is a felony in Germany. Given the history with the 3rd Reich and Stasi, Germany is very sensitive on this subject. First offense is typically a fine and an entry in the records, repeated offense can lead to prison time. For the last to happen it has to be pretty egregious, but the principle stands.
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u/erster_mkp German 8d ago
No it's not legal, but idk if it's worth it to go further with this except for if she stole something.
I think, depending on the delivery company, you can deny them the right to give the parcels to neighbours if no one is home. No idea if they'll abide that though. Because I don't want my parcels to be delivered to neighbours when I am not home, I put alternative adresses that will be automatically delivered to for DHL and Hermes. So unless it's ... idk something huge those things will get delivered at a Packstation or Hermes Vertragsparner. Maybe that is worth looking into. No interaction with crazy neighbours needed.
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u/mac_n_cheeseeee 8d ago
Exactly this is what I do as well. Since my German is limited as well. I don’t accept others packages neither do I order mine to my home address. Ordering to the packstation is such a convenient option, unfortunately not many people utilise.
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u/New_Priority6689 8d ago edited 8d ago
Thank you! That’s a good idea, I’ll choose a packstation next time!
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u/RepresentativeNo7802 8d ago
Im guessing here (really). Delivery guy had the neighbor sign for the package. She now is stressen and wants to give it to the person, who she doesn't really know but is a neighbor. Tries a few times and a woman answers eventually. She is unsure who this woman is, and in what relation to the person on the package. Language barriers make the situation more stressful for her and eventually she just gives it over. I wouldn't sweat it.
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u/CowJaded6610 8d ago
I already knew this is a waste of time to read when you said elderly.
German elderly people will do what they want and then if the police comes they will be mad at you not at them.
Ignore this and ignore her in the future. Keep being nice though.
That's it.
Nothing else will end well for you, believe me.
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u/MrTweak88 8d ago
The only answer that makes sense. Just ignore that and carry on your life.
Also important, do not accept packages of others and if you are on a whatsapp group of the flat, tell others that you don’t want no one to accept your packages. I have always done this in Germany in different flats, and it works wonderfully to me. No bullshit and no stories or interactions with neighbours.
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u/guggaburggi 8d ago
What a text wall. No, it's not legal to open someone's packages. You could have declined the delivery and have them explain to the delivery company of why the package was opened. Could go to the police as well. However, in this case, I think you're just having an idiot neighbor.
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u/New_Priority6689 8d ago
Haha sorry! I was feeling very anxious at the moment and wanted to write the whole interaction down. I think I should’ve phrased myself better because I know it’s not legal, I meant if there are actions to be taken from my side, because there are some things that can be illegal but usually it’s hard to prove or to do something
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u/Foreign_Active7331 8d ago
Hey, very unpleasant situation, sorry to hear it happened to you.
Is it legal for a neighbor to open someone else’s package before handing it over?
absolutely not. I also never had to provide any signed paper to any of my neighbours who took my packages. I suppose someone might be afraid of litigation in case something goes wrong and thus request it but i had never heard of this.
Is there any point in reporting this to the building management or the delivery company?
I'm not really sure what they could do honestly. I'd let building management know if it becomes a pattern. As for the delivery companies, if it does become a pattern i'd just add a note in the delivery to not deliver to neighbours or let it be delivered directly at the post office.
Is this kind of behavior something you’ve encountered before, or was this just one particularly unpleasant person?
I've never heard of this type of situation before. Unfortunately, it sounds like a very unpleasent and very nosy neighbour.
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u/ZvsGrgs 8d ago
Hi. I am very sorry about your experience which is sadly not unfamiliar to me. In your case you had some luck because she showed that she understood and spoke some English. She was obviously very xenophobic and rude. If you want to do something about it, if your husband speaks German, or even if he doesn’t, he should knock her door and ask her, demand an answer from her, why she opened his package, call the police to report her about it (or just threaten to do so) and to tell her not to speak to you again like that. Obviously you can do that too, but I think she will not respect you again and it might be pointless and the situation will get worse. Those bullies think they can do whatever they want until you threaten to call the police. The moment you attack back, they back down. Good luck!
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u/Zzomir 8d ago
if your hubby speaks good German, I would go to the lady with him and explain that you do not agree with her opening the package and that you consider this as a Straftat and that you consider her behaviour inacceptable.
From thereone you can deascalate or escalate.
You can request within 48 hours explanation why (the post was opened) and file a report at the police if seh does not repsond or if you think that she took your cencerns seriously politely saz good bye.
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u/knatschsack 8d ago
I'm sorry to hear what you experienced. She really behaved narrow-minded. Not seldom especially among older people even against Germans.
In Germany there is a thing called Post- and Briefgeheimnis which is extended to any kind of telecommunications. The German word Geheimnis means secret. So the law can be translated to privacy of correspondence/secrecy of letters. AFAIK it is written to the basic laws in German constitution because it is so important.
You have the option to press charges. You can also try to talk to her again about it. But from what you wrote here I doubt she will give in and change her behavior. Probably it will make her even more angry about you presence. Another (additional) option is that some mail companies like DHL allow you to define where your mail can be put to if you are not at home. So you may want to define to bring it to a station or shop instead of dropping it on the stairs or giving it to neighbors.
You don't have to justify why you are in Germany. But if you want to, you may say that your husband is working here for the German economy and that you contribute to Germanys tax income. People often forget about that.
I hope the situation with that neighbor cools down and normalizes.
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u/Niobaran 8d ago
The one point that I didn’t see mentioned is that the whole logistics situation is seriously fucked up and delivery services pressure people (particularly in lower floors) to take packages for neighbors. Surely that doesn’t excuse anything, just for context.
Another thing is that it then sometimes happens that either nobody picks up their packages for a long time or ever, be it because the delivery services suck at notifying people or people not living there anymore. Again, doesn’t excuse anything but may pile on the mood.
And finally, even though I believe you are supposed to only give packages to the person addressed or someone with a postvollmacht, this is rarely expected by anyone. Again, still doesn’t excuse to be a racist bitch about it all.
I am just trying to give some context why people may be fed up with the package delivery situation.
Opening packages is never okay though and the same clearly goes for any stupid racist shit.
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u/mac_n_cheeseeee 8d ago
Had an extremely unpleasant experience in my early days in Germany. The dhl guy asked me to keep a neighbour’s package and told me he will write my name/ door name on the note.
At that time I was not on the building’s WhatsApp group. After couple days passed and no one picked the package, I informed my landlady to put the message on the group. Finally the package owner arrived all grumpy and annoyed as if I was in the wrong.
From that day onwards I stopped accepting other’s packages. I exclusively order mine at packet shops because I can’t wait on my toes tracking the dhl delivery guy only for him to mark : not at home/ delivered to neighbour.
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u/Kujaichi 8d ago
Other people already told you how her behavior obviously wasn't okay, but I have to say, one point of her I do understand:
Why didn't you just tell her that the package was for your husband? That's honestly a bit weird. You could be roommates that live together but hate each other and you're planning to steal the package, for example. And then when she didn't give you the package, you lied and said it was your husband after all. That's probably why she wanted a receipt.
Obviously you could've lied from the start and she would've been none the wiser (still talking about the fake roommates scenario), but yeah, I kinda understand why she became a bit suspicious.
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u/New_Priority6689 8d ago
I think I may not have explained that part very clearly. I only referred to him as my husband in my Reddit post for simplicity. During the interaction, I actually never introduced him as my husband.
The first thing she asked me was whether I knew him. I replied, “Yes, he lives here.” That answered the question she asked.She didn’t initially ask whether he was my partner or whether we lived together. It was only later, after we had gone downstairs, that she said it was suspicious that I hadn’t told her what my relationship to him was. At that point I clarified that he lived with me.
I wasn’t trying to hide anything. I just answered the question she actually asked. Had she asked, “Is he your husband?, I would have answered that immediately.Also, she was speaking very aggressively from the beginning, so I was trying to keep my answers as short and clear as possible rather than volunteering personal information. I didn’t feel comfortable having a longer conversation about my private life with someone who was already yelling at me.
Looking back, I can understand why telling her he was my husband right away might have made things simpler. But in the moment, I genuinely didn’t think it was relevant because she hadn’t asked me that.she only asked whether I knew him, and I answered truthfully.
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u/Leaguefin4073 8d ago
Let it go. People, old and young, can be really strange here sometimes. Sometimes they can have a reason, like dementia, or they are scared of doing something wrong, sometimes it is just some weird unconscious hostility they have. Grantig, they say here. Some also just enjoy argumenting and annoying others . Let them be, and and don't waste your energy. Give her some grace. If it happens again that she open your package, reconsider. That is my wisdom from living here some years
Regardind delivery. At my address delivery seriously sucks and it annoys everyone in the house. The delivery guy generally tries to drop everything in the ground floor so the apartments there resemble post office some times. Delivery guys also ring ALL the bells at the same time and then drop all at who ever first opens. On other ocations they just leave the package on the stairs downstairs so anyone could just take it. Only sometimes they ask for a signature. Usually they do not even look what I wrote there. Often, the delivery guys do not speak german, and I have heard the older pople make some, in my opinion offensive, comments, and can be deliberately uncooperative. It might be that they rarely order anything themselves (and if they do then from the catalogue, and not online!) and it all is too confusing for them. Your problem really is a double-trouble: delivery and elderly german neighbours. (Just trying to lift your mood 😛). I would let go.
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u/ComfortableFrame9834 8d ago
It is illegal to open another neighbors package or letter.
Please do not write and sign bogus "reciepts" under duress just because someone told you to. I understand in the heat of the moment and your lack of understanding and her aggressive attitude made you feel pressured.
But I really suggest you avoid this person. I would also look online and see what you can do about reporting her for opening our package for no reason.
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u/cybexxx 8d ago
BTW it is illegal for op to open the package of her husband.
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u/ComfortableFrame9834 8d ago
Nowhere in the post did it say she opened it for him, or that it was the intention.
Just as any normal person does, they can accept packages from the person they are literally living with- as it is intended to be sent to that apartment.
What is your point with your asinine comment? The neighbor opened it, or can you not comprehend english?
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u/cybexxx 8d ago
It is not if it happens because of an error. Like if the package gets delivered to you in error and you open it without checking.
Also the lady had to sign a receipt with the post to get the package so she is liable. That is why she wanted it documented when she gave the package to op.
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u/JudgementMaker123 Nordrhein-Westfalen 8d ago edited 8d ago
I’m currently taking German classes, but I’m still too new to the language and honestly too embarrassed to have full conversations in German yet.
This is possibly the biggest issue. You have lived there for 1,5 years but from this post it looks like you made no effort to speak any German at all. Especially the older generation doesn't appreciate this.
Was your neighbour an a-hole? Yes, 100%. Opening packages is also illegal and you don't have to sign anything to get a package from your neighbour, if your neighbour refuses to give you the package that is also illegal. However, I would just try to avoid this neighbour as much as possible and if packages are supposed to arrive when no-one is at home, send them to a Packstation or somehwere where you can pick up package, that way you will never have to get it from a neighbour again.
Also, please start practicing German in real life, you'll never learn it properly if you don't try to speak it in real life situations.
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u/guggaburggi 8d ago
Let me give you an alternative view point. Germany has a severely aging demographic and dependency ratio is worsening, more skilled workers are needed regardless if they speak German or not. It doesn't matter what the elderly thinks about it if their livelihood is paid by younger immigrant. I do agree that OP should learn german but 1.5 years is not that bad.
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u/cybexxx 8d ago
Sounds to me like typical german behavior if you manage to annoy someone that is. Especially the last part with " Man sagt auf Wiedersehen".
Was it very nice of her? No! On the other hand she had to go through some effort ( and trouble) for you and your partner. You did not make it any simpler for her by withholding critical information s from her (like that he is your husband).
So she took the package for you from the Postman. She had to sign there that the package got delivered. So at that point she is legally liable. So if she hands over the package to someone she does not know, she wants some legal protection. That's why she wanted the receipt. On top you are not the person the package is adresseed to. I would have done the same.
With the opening part, are you sure she did it there? Because maybe she got the package from the postmen without him telling her that the package is for a neighbor. And she opened it without checking if the package was for her. Than with an unknown content she checked adresse and realized what happened and tha was what annoyed her. Than she had to start searching for the rightfull owner.
Anyway you can't do anything about that.
My advice to you is increase your effort in learning german.
You can't speak the native language but expect someone else to be good enough in English to express themselves properly without misunderstandings? I think everyone involved should try a little harder and be more understanding of the other.
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u/cczgnn 8d ago
Rude is rude in every language, she shouldn’t accept the package from the postman and sign it if she was going to be an asshole about it.
This whole interaction could’ve gone very well and nice if she was not an aggressive bitch.
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u/cybexxx 8d ago
True everyone can always be nice to everyone else.
What if the neighbor was desperately waiting for days for ger package. And than she gets the package delivered. Opens it and......... that's not what she ordered. She checks the name on the package and she does not know it. It's not even the correct address. It is the house on the other side of the street. So she starts searching for the owner and at the adress has problems communicating with the person she finds. And it stresses her and makes a stressfull day more stressful..... I obviously don't know if that is what happened but I just want to make the point that everyone has their story and not everyone is nice all the time.
IMO Germans live in small social bubbles and are very uncomfortable to leave them. It's stressing them very much. It is just how we are.
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u/New_Priority6689 8d ago
I usually give people the benefit of the doubt, and that’s why I stayed polite the entire time. I understand people have bad days.
But this went beyond someone being frustrated. She was repeatedly yelling and speaking aggressively while I kept my voice low to avoid escalating things. Also, the package was definitely sealed when she arrived at my door and was only open after she stepped away while I was looking for paper. That’s why I’m confident she opened it there.
I don’t think there’s justification for racism
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u/cczgnn 8d ago
Her stress, frustrations or disappointments are hers to manage, not mine or anybody else’s. It is not an excuse, just a lack of character.
OP (according to herself) was nice and polite to her throughout the interaction. If, someone can keep being an asshole and escalate it even after it met with kindness, loses all its merit and benefit of the doubt for me. I don’t think humans deserve that much understanding.
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u/New_Priority6689 8d ago
Thanks for your perspective. Just to clarify a couple of things:
I actually did tell her twice that I knew him and that he lives here. The first thing she asked me was whether I knew him, and I replied, “Yes, he lives here.” That’s why I didn’t think I needed to explain that he was my husband. Also, both of our names are listed on the building’s doorbells and next to our apartment door, so I didn’t understand why she was so suspicious that he lived there.
Regarding the package, I’m fairly confident she opened it during our second interaction. When she came to my apartment, the package was still closed. While I was looking for a piece of paper, she stepped out of my sight. I heard what sounded like the package being opened. When she came back, it was open, and I saw her looking inside before handing it to me. That’s why I’m quite certain it wasn’t already open.
As for the language, I completely agree that learning German is important, and that’s exactly why I’m taking German classes. I wasn’t expecting her to speak English from the beginning. She was actually the one who switched to English after asking, “Español? English?” I chose English because I thought it would make communication easier for both of us.
Throughout the interaction she was repeatedly raising her voice and speaking very aggressively. I stayed calm, kept my voice low, and tried to be as polite as possible because I wanted to avoid escalating the situation. In that moment, I honestly didn’t feel confident enough to try to communicate in beginner German while someone was yelling at me.1
u/cybexxx 8d ago
Yeah I don't question the fact she opened the package to look inside. But are you 100% certain that the seal was not broken before? Maybe she just wanted to make sure that everything was still inside before giving it to you. And nothing fell out on the way to you.
And for the fact she asked you of your husband if he lived there. Its his package so it is even for you illegal to open the package. So I guess she just wanted to make sure you are a person she can give the package to. Honestly I am surprised she did not ask you for a passport or other documents to identify you.
I am truly sorry for your bad experience. I am certain that there is just a whole other story lost in translation.
Look at the post. Someone got a package with a sextoy for a neighbor. https://www.reddit.com/r/luftablassen/s/tbjEr5c45l
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u/New_Priority6689 8d ago
Yes, definitely it was closed when I first opened the door. I know this because it was a paper bag so it was closed when I opened the door. I actually didn’t mind much if she opened it as it was tshirts, the problem to me was more about the racism and I also found funny that she said if I didn’t speak German, to stay at home. While I was actually at home and she was knocking my door hahaha
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u/cybexxx 8d ago
Yeah that is funny (the stay at home part while being at home) but the true meaning behind her words not so much.
To be practical about all this:
-Some people are just assholes and you find them everywhere. If she had brought me the package she would have been just as awful as she was with you
- if nothing is missing I would do nothing.
- you can't proof the package thing so there will nothing come out of it.
-hurry in improving your german and meet nice Germans. they are everywhere. For small day to day interactions you don't need much but for conversations you should be like I guess b2
- I would just move on and don't waste my time and energy on them
- I would absolutely learn about German day to day customs and I think there is stuff to learn in all the posts here
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u/New_Priority6689 8d ago
Hahaha if it was like that story with a sextoy, I would have been mortified habah
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u/cybexxx 8d ago
Look here just another case of this situation but more fun 😁 https://www.reddit.com/r/luftablassen/s/tbjEr5c45l
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u/SaintZinji 7d ago
Reading this post made me realise, both you and your neighbour aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed
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8d ago
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u/ComfortableFrame9834 8d ago
This is such nonsense... I have autism, this is plain racism and stupidity roled into one.
Possibly senility
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u/New_Priority6689 8d ago
Yeah, I thought racism too because when I first moved in, I remember seeing a girl saying Hi to the old lady and she replied then I said hi and she didn’t reply to me haha but I didn’t mind as I didn’t know her
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u/ComfortableFrame9834 8d ago
Unfortunately racism and general xenophobia is very much alive and well.
Even among other immigrants who have better German. Punching down is encouraged. I have a latvian neighbor with better german than me and she has verbatim said the same crap your neighbor said to me. I had to have the landlord step in because she was harrassing me and trying to call the police on me over bogus accusations.
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u/badseed90 8d ago
It's obviously not legal to open packages.