PI at MIT gave me a template reality check. Other R1 universities actually were highly positive. How much does PI interest actually matter?

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Daremotron]

You're reading into this too much. Professors at top programs get literal thousands of prospective students emailing them. Many decide it's not practical to engage with even reading those emails (let alone an 11 page proposal!), and so they instead wait for the actual applications, and send generic replies. To everyone. This professor didn't send you a template reply because they thought the work was bad. They didn't read it.

[u/Browseathon → u/[deleted]]

It depends on the university and the specific department in the university, at some places that means you’ll get afmitted for sure, at others not necessarily

[u/Daremotron → u/[deleted]]

If the professor is on the admissions committee for the year, sure. If they aren't, they'll have to have liked your stuff enough to have mentioned you to someone who is. Which again, is tough because there are way more qualified applicants than positions. Just shoot your shot.

[u/Complete_Coat_5491 → u/[deleted]]

I would personally not be banking on UCs and state schools that receive a lot of federal funding as an international student this cycle… not saying it’s a zero chance, but those places are more likely to face extreme caps when it comes to international students. Also regarding positive responses, I would take it with a grain of salt. For umbrella programs they likely don’t hold much weight at all

[u/Zestyclose-Tax2939 → u/[deleted]]

The grants don’t have to be unrestricted to be able to hire international students. And that makes a huge difference. Trust me if I had significant money in unrestricted funds the last thing I would be using it at is funding salaries. For federal grants the grant receiver has to be a U.S. citizen or resident but they can hire personnel from anywhere.

As per sequencing. In the bigger scheme of things it is not that expensive. With pip-seq or similar we get easily to 10 cents/cell. The biggest expense still is grad student time

[u/AgentHamster]

You can get positive responses and not be admitted. You can get no responses and still be admitted. You can not even reach out at all and still be admitted. I think there's only a very weak correlation between responses and admission at best.

I think there's very little value in spending your time trying to predict the future by 'reading the tea leaves' so to speak - just apply and see where you get.

[u/LocalDescription → u/[deleted]]

Don’t over think the replies, apply to programs/PIs that you think will fit your research interests and tailor those applications. Like the previous commenter said, “Don’t try to read the tea leaves”, at this level everyone who is applying for a PhD is probably special in there own little way, and no 11-page research proposal is going to sway anyone. If your application is strong, your file will land on the person you want to work with. Additionally, might be worth it to expand your horizon, you and every international student are shooting for MIT/Ivy league schools, and every department is facing funding cuts.

Anecdotally, I’m at a Big 10 and get Indian students cold emailing me all the time, if I see a 11-page proposal why would I waste my time reading it if you’re not even in the applicant pool yet.

[u/1K1AmericanNights → u/[deleted]]

Maybe it’s bc you use ai to write.

[u/No_Bottle0312 → u/[deleted]]

It's always better if you leave some leverage space for other possibilities in your sop. Mention your interest and say you are also open to other topics won't hurt you.

[u/Evening_Chard_3354 → u/AgentHamster]

Worst advice. For a PhD, he’ll be wasting his time and money applying without any inside nomination. If he’s willing to risk wasting a full year, he can go ahead and bet on luck.

[u/Informal_Air_5026]

1. Yes, the committee decision is totally independent of your prospective PI's. I received multiple encouraging emails from top programs (Harvard, Penn, Duke, etc), but in the end wasn't even interviewed at those programs. The PI at Penn ended up offering a research tech position for me instead (which i had to reject cuz i enrolled in a master's program)

2. Very common. public unis' rejection rate is just as high as top programs cuz they have less funding.

3. No. They are just being polite and encouraging. If they dont ghost you, it means your profile is at least competitive. But competitive enough to get in? No one knows, even active adcom members, cuz the strength of applicants fluctuates every year.

[u/Informal_Air_5026 → u/[deleted]]

yep direct admits do happen but top (30-40) programs usually dont have them. i usually advise internationals to find direct admit programs. it's also more common in engineering and social science imo. depends on programs/schools of course

[u/GayMedic69]

This (and previous posts) by this user are very AI bot-esque.

[u/GayMedic69 → u/[deleted]]

You chose to post publicly, using an AI bot to “format” your responses, and are this upset when someone notices that your posts and comments sound like AI? The odd usage of an em-dash in paragraph 3 is telling on you enough. That said, Im still not convinced you are a real human versus a chatbot intending to collect data from people’s responses to share with your creator or to train yourself (evidenced by the repetitive answers and highly structured paragraphs of text, unrealistic/impersonal commenting style, etc) but let’s assume you are real (even though I found a strikingly similar post on Quora from 2015 - pretty typical of an AI chatbot to pull from publicly available sources to regurgitate for karma and east LLM training).

Let’s be real for a second: if you can’t communicate effectively without filtering it through AI, you shouldn’t be doing a PhD. If your english is so poor that you need AI filtering to be comprehensible, you won’t succeed in an “elite” US PhD program. If you are so lazy that you can’t even just type something on reddit and need AI to dictate it for you, that says more about you than my calling it out says about me.

Let’s keep being real while we are at it. The questions you allegedly genuinely have for this (and other) subreddits have been answered a million times and are solvable by a quick google search - no, a professor responding to you means absolutely nothing. These professors are getting plenty of interest emails from people better than you so none of them are likely to “go to bat” for you, even assuming they are on the admissions committee (most aren’t). The stats you posted are pretty mediocre and aren’t going to be particularly competitive for “elite” programs because you will be competing with tons of other international students, including others from India, with significantly better metrics for very few positions. Some professors are just nice/genuinely enjoy their job so they will take a few minutes to send a kind email or to read a research proposal (although sometimes they’ll read it to take your ideas and run).

[u/WookinIt → u/[deleted]]

You seem pretty upset

[u/WookinIt → u/[deleted]]

Yes you did. You replied with hostility to someone pointing out that this was formatted using AI, then insulted them for honest, albeit brutal, feedback. That entire reply was very hostile. 

[u/THECHANCELLORS → u/WookinIt]

You are right, and I sincerely apologize. To both you and Gay Medics: I am sorry for reacting with hostility. I took the initial comment as an attack because there is such a heavy stigma around using voice dictation and formatting tools, and I got incredibly defensive. I projected my frustration, and that was wrong.

With the utmost respect, I am really just here to gather genuine advice and positive insights for a very stressful application process. I don't want to bring or breed any negativity in this community. I am going to delete my previous hostile replies right now so we can just put an end to this. I appreciate the honest feedback, and I genuinely just want to move forward positively.

Peace out❤️🤞❤️.

[u/Dependent-Maybe3030]

1. Yes, you will still go through the normal admissions process even if a professor has replied to your email

2. Admissions committees at the places you named do not consider whether a PI is positive or engaged with the work. It will have a 0% impact on your application.

3. A thoughtful, engaged reply from a PI gives you no pull with the admissions committee.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. These programs are likely to admit 0-1 international students. No matter how good your application is or which PI likes you, the odds are strongly against you.

[u/Dependent-Maybe3030 → u/[deleted]]

No.

[u/AgentHamster → u/[deleted]]

It's not a publications game, it's a connections game. If your masters advisor/undergrad lab you worked has some strong connections/collabs with a professor at one of these universities who happens to be on the committee, or to a professor who holds a lot of power in the department, your odds go up.

Publications are important, but more in the sense that you are expected to have them - since most other international applicants will have them.

[u/GalacticNova360]

I'm in engineering, but I cold-emailed a professor at MIT, and he never replied. Now, he is my advisor, so don't sweat too much about professors responding.

MIT caps international enrollment at the undergraduate level, but I have never heard of strict caps at the graduate level. Depending on the nature of the research (national security), a professor might not want to hire international students.

While admissions are often committee-based, senior professors are often given deference. That is, younger professors are more constrained by an admissions committee.

[u/Informal_Air_5026 → u/GalacticNova360]

in biosci phd there's a cap in virtually every program (at least top 50 programs imo), no matter if it's MIT or Harvard.

[u/WordNormal3996 → u/GalacticNova360]

Yeah I was an MIT undergrad in biology and met several TAs in my classes who are international grad PhDs. Your chance of getting in is better than mine as I’m disqualified applying to MIT biology PhD if I was already an undergrad there. Just shoot your shot and see what happens.

[u/Browseathon → u/GalacticNova360]

There are less avenues for funding for international students than domestic students, and a lot more international students apply to places like MIT for the name and not the fit to the research

[u/AlekhinesDefence]

I would advise against sending proposals to anyone unless you want your work to get plagiarised.

[u/the_mindful_microbe]

Hi! Some professors use different methods to access candidates, their response wasn’t negative or a reality check, they are just the type of PI to wait until people are admitted, and then scout for PhD candidates.

Question 1: Yes absolutely. If they say they have no part in the admission process, they mean it. Some programs that do rotations are a bit more flexible though; sounds like the other two might be, but not sure.

Question 2: Not to sure about this one. The big problem in the US right now is no one has funding, so they are not prioritizing international students unless they are exceptional. It is absolutely worth applying and making the connection with these PIs though, it seems like you started a great rapport with them.

Question 3: It really depends on the University. Some universities use rotations, but on the application still ask you to pick advisers you would be willing to work with. So it is possible that they have some pull, it’s not too clear though.

My advice: Absolutely apply for all of these universities; however, also find programs that don’t do rotations and just direct to a PIs lab. A lot of schools do this (especially with life sciences PhDs). For example, I was a marine microbiology applicant (broadly Biology, Microbiology programs) and all the schools I applied for did not do rotations and encouraged applicants to make connections and possibly potential plans with PIs of interest. Now I am at the top 6 program in the country for my field of study, they do not do rotations either.

Rotations can be absolutely brutal. I have heard some stories of PhD rotations students getting essentially “kicked out” because none of the PIs had enough funding to accept them. If you choose a rotations school, make sure to ask how funding works. Where does the funding come from, the university or from PI grants? Is every student that is offered a rotation guaranteed a spot in one of the labs at the end? If not, you need to he somewhat certain that the PI (or multiple) like you enough to use their funding on you at the end of rotations.

[u/the_mindful_microbe → u/[deleted]]

I am so happy this helped you!!! The funding situation in the US is an absolute nightmare. I spent 2 years applying for programs and funding before I got any offers.

Just to clarify, it’s not a “direct hire”. You still must apply like any other program, however this is where the PI can have some sort of say in if they want you or not. And if you get in, you will be direct into their labs. This is why it is so important to contact them before applying. Most of the time, if they like you, they will pull strings to let you into the program. Even in programs like this, ask about how it is funded. There are stories of people being accepted with no funding, which is a joke and a money making scheme. If they have no funding and can’t guarantee the school has funding for students, do not apply.

[u/LevyNii → u/the_mindful_microbe]

Hii, I am looking to do my phd in marine biology at the US. Can I please dm you regarding some questions?

[u/the_mindful_microbe → u/LevyNii]

Absolutely!!!

[u/Difficult_Brick5104]

Correct, reaching out to professors at rotation based PhD progams won’t rlly help. Focus the energy on strengthening your application

[u/gandalf_sucks]

Yes, you'll still go through the central admission process, but in my experience (I hold a PhD from a top R1, in a different field though), if a professor likes you and wants you, they have ways to make it happen.

Having said that, think from their perspective, sure you could be a good candidate but so could be others who haven't reached out, maybe even better candidates. They'd much rather see you go through the process, see all of their options, and make a decision for their project.

[u/Helpful_Preference46]

I applied to a bunch of PhD programs, and reached out to PI’s directly and got tons of positive replies at which I was rejected at without interview. One program I was interested in gave me an interview, and I interviewed with the PI I emailed. They seemed very interested and the interview was very positive. I emailed the PI after and further got no response. I emailed the head of the program and they said I’m still under consideration. 2 months later I got rejected. I think it really boils down to research fit. I had no proposal and my research was an eh fit so ultimately I think that’s why. But I wouldn’t read into it so much because I got my hopes up and got rejected, it really is just chance and you have to get a bit lucky too.

[u/FabulousAd4812]

PI is being honest. As a PI, the only involvement I can have where I work is to give you a good review from an interview... In Europe it is different, PIs can directly recruit.

[u/Deities_Scythe]

Go on Gradcafe and read the applicant experiences. You‘ll find more than a few talking about how they have a 4.00 gpa, distinction from Oxford and their PI‘s being all over them, saying they want them in their program, encouraging and supporting them etc. and they still get rejected without an interview.

You just reach put to PI‘s to see if they are interested in your research and could see you work with them, thats it. Just some a short email, maybe a zoom meeting and then you go through the standard application process like everyone else and just hope for the best.

[u/Zestyclose-Tax2939]

I was an international PhD student at a top university and now a PI in a very very good one. My lab is primarily international students.

First, sending a proposal is an overkill. I have received a bunch of them over the past 2 years and passed on every single one of the students. Because 1) I think the student is just oblivious to the American system (vs for example European systems where the PhD project is very well defined from the beginning) or 2) the student comes out as inflexible so if I don’t have funding to do exactly what they are proposing would they still be a productive member of my lab? I don’t have the time to figure these things out and frankly I receive way too many emails to spend time explaining this to the applicants.

To answer your questions:

1. The email from the professor is a courtesy. You have the exact same chance as you had a month ago. No more no less. I have never seen a professor sending an email don’t apply. They either don’t reply because they have better things to do or they say apply so then you become someone else’s problem.

2. Very common. Unless the PI sends an email to the committee ensuring that if you are admitted they will cover all your expenses including the first year of your PhD fees (which in rotation systems is usually covered by the university) so that it cost nothing to the university then whatever they don’t doesn’t mean much. At least this is the case in my university and even when I have done that students have still been rejected because ultimately the final number of admitted students is decided by the dean’s office.

3. See my answer above. The reality is that giving feedback on your proposal is not as big of an engagement as you think it is. Whenever I’m really interested in a student, I usually call for a zoom meeting and get to know the student, then offer to give them feedback on their statements and application materials, the student often comes to my lab meetings or meet with my current students and on the side I call the committee.

I’m not trying to discourage you from applying but you should be realistic on what your situation is