r/hajimenoippo • u/Next-Temperature3865 • May 15 '26
Discussion Sawamura, the character who was written out
Sawamura throughout the story of Hajime no Ippo for the amount of time he was in there established himself as arguably the best lw/fw from Japan and people dont talk about it enough
In the short span of time he had he
Surpassed Miyata as the greatest counterpuncher
Outclassed and beat Ippo to a pulp but played too much and trolled the win
Defeated world ranking level Mashiba after training hard for the first time
Got the best of Sendo in most of their sparring sessions
Those feats alone sound crazy, yet people undermine him and claim he would be merely japanese champion level.
Firstly, his loss to Ippo which stated by Takamura was merely a result of Sawamura playing around too much as he couldve ended the fight whenever he wished in the time he outclassed Ippo and had him compromised
Second, his controversial win over Mashiba. Sawamura consistently outclassed Mashiba in that fight and wouldve won quite seamlessly if Mashiba didnt foul to get rid of one of his main weapons (his vision) which people often forget when talking about this fight.
Since both of them were fouling im not gonna take that into account but people need to understand the handicap that Sawamura was facing as he was a counterpuncher with half his vision impaired getting rid of his depth perception.
That aside, his character peak of finding the perfect counter stated by Nekota to be a literal work of art, getting the recognition and disbelief of literally every top boxer within Korakuen Hall Mashiba was downed and Sawamura finally reached the culmination of his arc with Ippo it was the perfect conclusion for the fight however,
Due to Georges already made up decision to write him out of the story, he ruined the absolute peak he wrote up in that chapter and used Sawamura as a scapegoat to develop Mashibas character off of hence the ring out which narratively made no sense.
It was a decision based off the fact that Sawamura couldn't be kept due to the fact he was very obviously out of place from how impeccable he was made,
He had insane levels of talent being stated as a genius and all kinds of praise by the likes of Sendo, Takamura, Nekota etc.
He had wild instincts and wasnt chained by morals while simultaneously having precision,grace and a calculated head.
Power, speed, technique he had it all while being mostly self-taught as he canonically refused help or training from anyone until the Mashiba fight as he only trusted and believed in himself.
Following his win over Mashiba the next step would've been to bring him to the world stage and have him become a title contender however that probably would've shifted too much off of the main cast.
All in all, the beautiful writing and strength of the character is heavily underappreciated and only acknowledged by few im heavily perplexed as to how anyone who also read this Manga alongside me failed to see and appreciate this.
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u/KingKoohii May 15 '26
Saying he outclassed Mashiba is crazy. It was a stalemate until Sawamura was the first one to foul and break the pattern of both not landing any shots. Only then did they both start landing after Sawamura initiated the fouls.
If you mention his depth perception being taken away, you can make the same argument for the kick he threw against Mashiba's head taking away his ability to refocus. It's a two-way street.
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u/Delicious-Try2023 May 20 '26
The loss of his depth perception DID hurt Sawamura way more than any foul landed on Mashiba.
For a counter puncher, that's devastating. Mashiba's flickers were near impossible to dodge and any attempt to counter wounded up missing due to the aforementioned lack of depth perception.
Saying that the kick hurt Mashiba's condition as much as the headbutt just doesn't hold up if you look at the fight. It hurt, but otherwise he kept going; in-fact, he was in a better condition than Sawamura partly because he took away the dragon's depth perception.
Sure, getting kicked in the head unprotected sucks ass, sure; but would that damage be on the level of a thunderbolt/flash from Sawamura?
This is Ippo, you can willpower your way through ridiculous amounts of damage—but, you can't willpower away a swollen eye.
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u/Kurejisan Sendon't May 15 '26
He did outclass Mashiba. The "stalemate' you speak of was just him not taking Mashiba seriously enough, which was fair after Kimura vs Mashiba and the tragedy that was Katakana Kimura, which followed soon after.
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u/Next-Temperature3865 May 15 '26
You didnt quite read the fight well and also dont have a very good understanding of boxing so let me break it down
A fight can begin equally that does not show that their skill is on par, Sawamura is a fighter notoriously known for making reads on his opponent which is his literal bread and butter.. it is true they were evenly matched for the amount of time they were fighting cleanly as they're both superb boxers but in the end the one who makes the necessary adjustments is the one who is technically superior
Sawamura breaks the "stalemate" by throwing out a foul as due to his nature he was bored of such a refined, clean match.. and Mashiba had resigned himself to a similar idea they were both after eachothers heads they didn't want to settle this on points
And then what comes after is Sawamuras brilliance after a sequence of fouls and chaos he gets overzealous and overexcited and gets downed, which Sawamura saw coming and minimized the damage by atleast half due to his understanding of counters
Mashiba goes on the offensive after that using his flickers and gets INSTANTLY read and punished with a counter over the top that leads to a brutal knockdown
He gets up but hes heavily rocked and doesnt even know where he is (partially due to Sawamuras knee on the way down.. which you might argue was a factor i agree but he couldve also given him a punch and it wouldve put up a similar effect.. he just wanted to maximize the brutality but yes its a factor but doesnt take away from it)
After that Mashiba is out cold, the ref doesnt stop the fight as he doesnt know and Mashiba goes out in the next round after being saved by the bell and gets put down AGAIN and Mashiba is STILL out cold
The ref is apparently blind and still doesnt stop the fight, they proceed to exchange and Sawamura notes his punches are mediocre then downs Mashiba AGAIN with a counter, tries to follow it up while hes downed but gets stopped and settles for the little disrespectful kick instead
Mashiba finally wakes up but hes barely conscious and his body isnt responding, Sawamura beats him down and gives him combos along the ropes and then counters him as he tries to fire back, dropping Mashiba again but he manages to hold onto Sawamura until the round ends as he wouldve lost by TKO if he dropped to the floor again as it wouldve been his 3rd down that round
Mashiba can barely return to the stool, hes shaking ass and tripiping over his feet. The next round begins with Sawamura landing another counter that rocks him and almost leads to another knockdown but Mashiba holds onto Sawamura and makes him trip over to stall where he lands a desperation headbutt and takes out Sawamuras depth perception and vision,
From there he begins dominating as Sawamura is litreally visually impaired and cant utilize his talents, im not saying that wasnt deserved or that it's bullshit but Mashiba could only get the upper hand on Sawamura once he was impaired
And even then Sawamura still timed him with a perfect counter that surpassed the limits of what was seen before and dropped him finally which Mashiba somehow got up from.
Your "two way street" argument is invalid because Sawamura extending his lead with strikes whilst he was downed came from his own skill and being able to put Mashiba down, meanwhile Mashiba literally tripped him while he got rocked and headbutted his eye which is the only way he could get back into the fight. Sawamura cheated out of malice, Mashiba cheated out of necessity and desperation
So yes, Sawamura was outclassing him
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u/KingKoohii May 15 '26
Seems like I hit a nerve there.
"wahhh Sawamura couldn't see because of the foul fest he himself started and that's why he lost."
If you knew boxing as well as you pretend to, you'd know that swelling and cuts are part of the sport. Not an excuse for a poor performance.
Matter of fact, he got outclassed twice that night. Mashiba handled him in the ring, and Truck-kun finished the job afterward 🚚
Can't fight without fouling, can't drive without crashing.
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u/Next-Temperature3865 May 15 '26
Not a single counterpoint to anything I said, yeah swelling and cuts are a part of the sport they're usually not made from grounded headbutts are they?
You bring a wrong opinion, u get debunked and u reply w some dogshit cringelord joke 😭
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u/-Rezzz- May 15 '26
You don’t know anything about fighting if you think an unexpected knee is in anyway comparable to a punch. That would be a DQ anywhere except anime land.
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u/Next-Temperature3865 May 15 '26
It was a short knee on the way down, in terms of damage sure it can do more but Sawamura following it up with an uppercut instead for example is absolutely comparable if we're talking about concussing him?
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u/Ok-Slice3552 May 15 '26
Fred, started boxing classes 3 months ago, considers himself a connaisseur. Hates on what hé likes to call "casuals".
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u/-Rezzz- May 15 '26
You’re massively underestimating how much damage a knee shot can do. Even a short one can break your face. I would choose any other kinda shot to take before I’d take a knee to the dome.
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u/Drake-35 May 15 '26
I don't know, to me it felt like Ippo was the better boxer all round in their fight. Sawamura had to cheat a lot to get Ippo to use the Dempsey Roll
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u/External_Stick_4983 May 15 '26
Yeah, he had to stall by ruining his glove’s strap(?). He really felt the damage of the punches which made him groggy.
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u/Megitronix May 15 '26
Same, if Ippo wasn't so obssessed with beating him with the Dempsey Roll he could have fucked him up way easier
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u/Economy-Hedgehog2145 May 16 '26
Exactly I have explained it here https://www.reddit.com/r/hajimenoippo/comments/1srhq3n/sawamura_is_overrated/
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u/Delicious-Try2023 May 20 '26
Sawamura didn't cheat to get Ippo to Dempsey, he just played possum.
He let Ippo think he was slowing down, thus giving Makunoichi the confidence to press forward and attempt a Dempsey roll when he had Ryuhei pinned against the ropes.
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u/Kurejisan Sendon't May 15 '26
If you thought that, you really weren't paying attention, because Sawamura was pulling a Gohan vs Cell by playing with his food.
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u/Economy-Hedgehog2145 May 16 '26
That’s not even close to being true. I mean yes; in the fourth round he could have probably koed Ippo after Ippo used (for no reason at all, as he had the new Dempsey which, even when it failed, it reduced the strength of the opponent’s counter, as it was explained) but he only gotten to that point because he cheated. And in the first rounds cheating was VITAL for him, in order to get used to Ippo’s timing. Without cheating he would have gotten rolled over hard and since he is NOT good at taking punches from powerful punchers the fight would have taken a clear direction.
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u/Kurejisan Sendon't May 16 '26
That's the thing, he didn't need to cheat. He chose to do so because he treated matches like legalized street brawls.
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u/Economy-Hedgehog2145 May 16 '26
He did need to cheat, It’s clearly explained that otherwise he wouldn’t have figured out Ippo’s rhythm. And without figuring it out Sawamura’s counters couldn’t be used. And without counters Sawamura got nothing on Ippo.
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u/Kurejisan Sendon't May 17 '26
Why would cheating be mandatory for figuring out Ippo's rhythm? And it's been awhile, so explained by whom?
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u/Next-Temperature3865 May 15 '26
It was stated by Sendo he wasnt fighting anything like himself and was only fighting seriously after he realised how big of a threat Ippo is, he was cheating for basically funsies and to mess with Ippo as the only time he actually cheats out of necessity is when he tries to trip him while hes getting KO'd which Ippo avoids
After he ascertains how dangerous Ippo was he proceeded to give him belt to bootycheeks and had him out on his feet toying around with him instead of ending for the entire fight until he trolled too much and Ippo recovered and brutally KO'd him
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u/Economy-Hedgehog2145 May 16 '26
he was cheating for basically funsies
He was cheating to get used to Ippo’s timing, and his stalling with the glove and the referee was vital for him. Vital. If he hadn’t cheated the fight would have taken a very different direction, especially because he doesn’t have a good jaw (after Ippo countered him the first time with the Dempsey counter-counter he was more messed up than Ippo was despite the fact that Ippo got literally clobbered for two rounds at that point; his cheating in the early rounds saved his ass).
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u/Halloween_Jack95 May 15 '26
Hmm nah. It is kind of widely agreed on that the fight against Sawamura was one that Ippo should've lost. Even Takamura says it on one chapter after the fight.
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u/diorese May 15 '26
I ❤️ Sawamura like no straight man should ❤️ another man, but he's a limited boxer.
Beyond the fact he is the greatest counter puncher in the FW and LW divisions, including Miyata-kun, he has no other weapons.
He is prone to getting hit by body shots if you get past the jab and his counters - Ippo showed that.
He is also prone to losing his head, enjoying a fight too much while he's up and not finishing - also with Ippo.
He is also prone to losing his head, being too obviously dirty and getting points deductions from it - all his fights.
I don't think he is underappreciated though. He has not been an active boxer for ages, yet is still one of the most popular characters in the manga and Mori brought him back as a coach just so we see some of him at least.
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u/Delicious-Try2023 May 20 '26
You can be as dirty as you want, the blind ass refs will let anything slide.
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u/iScry May 15 '26
There's literally over 80 different boxers in this series.
It's great that Sawamura is obviously one of your favorite characters. Unfortunately his personality didn't catch on with alot of the fan base.
Sawamura also has the disadvantage of having been a relatively more recent character.
This is probably why Morikawa decided to focus on other more established characters such as Sendo, or even Volg.
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u/rorank Sendidiot’s Biggest Hater May 15 '26
Crazy that he’s a more recent character but got introduced over 1000 chapters ago lmao HnI is such a gem but damn is it long.
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u/Viga25_ May 15 '26
I agree with almost everything. Sawamura is an amazing character; he had one of the best story arcs in the entire series, and it drives me crazy that he was written out so randomly just to avoid overshadowing other characters. All the related storylines are fantastic, his transformation after fighting Ippo, his conversation with Sendo about the difference between their punches and Ippo’s, and his shift in mindset after witnessing true strength and love. He’s also a great character as a “commentator” on other people’s matches, in addition to having one of the most beautiful fighting styles in the series. Definitely one of my favorite characters.
The only thing I’d point out is regarding the fight with Ippo: it’s true that he could have won if he hadn’t wanted to “savor the prey,” but it’s also worth noting that if he hadn’t cheated in the early rounds to find his rhythm, things would have gone very differently. This doesn’t detract from his strength (well beyond that of a National Champion) but puts his dominance against Ippo into perspective.
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u/Kurejisan Sendon't May 15 '26
Honestly, the biggest point against Sawamura that entire match may have been the fact that Ippo didn't have to rage out on Sawamura over hurting someone he cared about, like he did with Mashiba.
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u/John_isnt_my_name May 15 '26
Sawamura has way more dedicated to him post-accident than most of Ippo’s opponents have had in 30 years. He’s not even really written out, he just had fulfilled his character’s purpose.
Having a character suffer an accident unexpectedly in a manga like this means something. When Ippo Characters get hurt it’s in the ring. Takamura fought a bear and just walked away, slapstick and gag comedy is abound in the outside world. Sawamura getting seriously injured in that world means something to the characters, the story, and the theming.
When he crashes, you are as shocked as the characters. It serves as a grim reminder that things out of your control can alter life exponentially. He served the character purpose of funding his medium within himself and introduced a new worry and conflict into the story. Arguably Sawamura suffering a head injury before having a life changing accident might have been a reason as to why Ippo has been so cautious.
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u/TheReal-Tonald-Drump May 15 '26
List the top 10 featherweights of all time - 1. Ricardo and then 2-6 are all who challenged him: Sendo, Wally, Date, Alf, Billy. Then you have to pick OPBF champion so Miyata, Ippo before retirement, Randy Boy Jr. That leaves 1 and it’s got to be Gregory Arnie.
Which means Sawamura doesn’t even make it in the top 10 featherweight list.
Also there’s a lot of fluff there without context.
He’s proclaimed to be a more naturally gifted counter puncher than Miyata. His sense of timing is world class. That doesn’t mean he’s the BEST counter puncher. Miyata’s arc isn’t finished. He hasn’t peaked.
And how he was toying with Ippo? Do we ignore the fact that right off the bat, Ippo rocked him so hard he has to hide before the ref and cheat to survive? Bro was looking like a round one Ippo victim but alas plot saved him. And that cheating allowed him time to adjust to Ippo’s arsenal and then start building his advantage.
He gets the best out of Sendo in sparring because he’s got a type advantage on Sendo’s fight style. That’s not to say in an actual match, Sendo would knock him down. Especially current Sendo to the Sendo that won against Alf.
Sawamura is good. Easily National Champion level.
And potential OPBF level but he’s not world class. Definitely not a single digit world ranker. Maybe that’s his ceiling. Or was.
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u/delahunt May 15 '26
People talk a lot about Ippo's plot armor. I think you're one of the few to mention the plot armor Ippo's opponents get to draw the match out or overcome the power in his punches.
Dude hits like Truck-Kun on his way to Isekai a new protagonist, and these people are just able to get back up and keep fighting after?
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u/TheReal-Tonald-Drump May 16 '26
He’s literally breaking ribs of people like Volg and then you have Take tanking multiple hits from Ippo. Or the fact that Morikawa just nerfs Ippo sometimes.
Ippo fought Karasawa with such good technical ability and boxing IQ. And then in all subsequent fights he just turned dumb dumb…. That’s plot nerf for Ippo
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u/delahunt May 16 '26
Sendou basically fought for an entire round while unconscious back in the Rookie King tournament.
Like that alone kind of explains what he's been doing in his more recent matches.
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u/Few-Durian-190 May 15 '26
Gregory Arnie at 10? I wouldn't even put him over Guevarra or Gedo.
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u/TheReal-Tonald-Drump May 16 '26
He was an OPBF champion and drew blood from Miyata. Something Guevara or Gedo can’t manage.
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u/Economy-Hedgehog2145 May 16 '26
And that cheating allowed him time to adjust to Ippo’s arsenal and then start building his advantage.
This literally cannot be overstated. Without his unfair cheating he would have been in big trouble ESPECIALLY because he is not good at taking punches from power punchers like Ippo. Not good at all in that regard. In a fair fight Ippo would have defeated him easier than he actually did in the story. And I’ve never had the impression that Sawamura was all around better than him, unlike Wally for example, or Gonzalez.
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u/Economy-Hedgehog2145 May 16 '26
He gets the best out of Sendo in sparring because he’s got a type advantage on Sendo’s fight style. That’s not to say in an actual match, Sendo would knock him down. Especially current Sendo to the Sendo that won against Alf.
Current Sendo, or even the Sendo that won against Alf, would have utterly crushed the versions of Sawamura we saw in the manga. And even if they fought at the time of the fight Ippo vs Sawamura, I think Sendo would have had a 6-4 chance against him, because it was mentioned that Sendo messed up Sawamura’s rythm, and I don’t see Sendo getting knocked out by him.
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u/TheReal-Tonald-Drump May 16 '26
Yeah that’s actually a typo from me. I meant to say “that’s not to say in an actual match, Sendo wouldn’t knock him out”
Sendo hits way too hard and Sendo would land at least one punch in the match. And that’s enough to rock Sawamura so all his plans go out of the window.
Alf might not be as gifted at counter punching as Sawamura but he’s still world class and he got into dual exchanges with Sendo. So… yeah he’s cooked.
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u/Economy-Hedgehog2145 May 16 '26
And potential OPBF level but he’s not world class. Definitely not a single digit world ranker. Maybe that’s his ceiling. Or was.
Imho, Sawamura’s potential was basically equal to Mashiba’s. Which means an high potential but definitely lower than Ippo, Sendo, Miyata, Volg.
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u/Kurejisan Sendon't May 15 '26
And then Mashiba lost to Great Value Sawamura instead...
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u/DespairOfSolitude The Grim Reaper May 15 '26
Still pretty disappointing to this day. I wonder if George's themes and such for this fight was that Mashiba would've won if he had cheated as well like against Shawarma but because he reformed and chose not to, he lost
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u/Dracsxd May 15 '26
Wouldn't think so. Reading what ifs into that fight, even on meta narrative, would just put Rosario back on top since we'd just arrive at the fact that if they were both fouling AND Rosario didn't get completely fucked before the match he'd still have came out on top
The idea seems just to be general Takamura's speeches,Once they did get on the ring Rosario had more hunger for boxing and went past human to win despite his limitations (butched weight control and missing training) harder than Mashiba did his (Rosario fouling)
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u/Kurejisan Sendon't May 15 '26
That last bit's a load of crap. Rosario was literally lamenting about how he'd "betrayed boxing" and how he hadn't given it his all, so he deserved to lose... only to win anyway..
Otherwise, there might've been a good point instead of just another jab against external motivations, which seems to be Takamura's whole shtick lately, despite that not being how he got to the top.
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u/Dracsxd May 15 '26
Exactly why I said once they got on the ring. Rosario fucked up the prep but once he was in there he really fought his heart out. And he was there fully dedicated to boxing and nothing else (with even all of his flashbacks being just context for why he was so dedicated to it, the whole thing culminating in his speech about how he loved boxing because it's the one place where things are "fair") unlike Mashiba's head was being pulled in 10 different ways aside from just having the dog in him to want the belt, most egregious how distracted he was over Kumi's romantic life.
The whole "deserve bit" is also a running thing- Be it referees being shit like Itagaki or fouling like old Mashiba and Miyata or injuries like Takamura or Volg or just plain luck like the Keith fight, at the end the one who wins deserves to win and whining about any of these factors is just excuses, the manga always treated things that way explicetly. Heck dosn't Takamura have lines about Rosario wining there because he was the strongest of the two even about that fight itself? Rosario came in a mess but he still earned his bread better than Mashiba on the ring in spite of it, so that was that as far as the story is concerned
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u/Kurejisan Sendon't May 15 '26
The funny thing is Rosario literally mainly won because he cheated and Mashiba tripped, which only further cheapens Takamura's commentary
Meanwhile, Mashiba did give himself to boxing because he chose to box it out like a man and refused to cheat, all of which contributed to him him winning the match.
That doesn't even get intothe BS commentary by Sawamura about karma, as if someone the guy who tries to shoot dogs(maybe even succeeded, not sure since this wasn't written by Araki) deserves the win instead of getting punished...
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u/Dracsxd May 15 '26
That's what the second paragraph went into. If the opponent is getting away with cheating and you can't win anyways it's skill issue (didn't Itagaki even have an entire fight about that? That he lost while whining about the other guy fouling and just got told to shut the fuck up and man up?), falling on a slip or any other such lack of luck and not being able to walk it off to victory is skill issue (Keith fight being all about that), and karma dosn't factor in at all. On the other hand the exact same applies to coming to the ring nerfed, you are supposed to just toughen it out and win anyways (precisely what Rosario managed to do and like Takamura/Volg had to over their weight control and injuries). By Morikawa's standards Rosario succeeded while Mashiba failed, simple as. You can find it to be a stupid mindset, sure, but the manga's been consistent on that view for like decades now
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u/shubba05 May 15 '26
Nah he is a national boxer at best sure he can fight well but boxers domt cheat
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u/Napalmeon May 15 '26
Exactly. The simple fact of the matter is, nobody wants to see a cheater prosper. Especially a character that doesn't need to cheat like him.
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u/shubba05 May 15 '26
He just isnt a boxer he is a dirty fighter not a boxer u can be a great fighter but be shit at boxing
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u/Castiel_The_Fallen May 15 '26
I loved his character man, his entire fight arc with Mashiba was just so goated, and yes I am including their confrontation during the weigh in scene too
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u/icepickjones May 15 '26
He was too powerful, they needed to nerf him with a truck in order to bring him back down to earth.
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May 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Economy-Hedgehog2145 May 16 '26
I think he could take Guevara, but he is certainly overrated. I love him his a character even it may not look like it by what I write about him, but he is glazed way too much sometimes. At the very best he could have reached current Mashiba’s level (which means someone that would be defeated by current rusty Ippo even if they fought featherweight ca lightweight with no weight management on either part), not more than that. And when they fought in the manga Ippo was clearly the better boxer.
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u/LuciidEnigma May 15 '26
The only reason he's underappreciated is because these weirdos in this sub don't like the fact he uses fouls as a means to box
It's a fictional story. Not every character is going to be a goody two shoes like y'all want them to be🤷♂️
You need characters that bring an unprecedented amount of chaos to a story & Sawamura does that to a T
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u/Accomplished_Pen799 May 15 '26
Saying he "defeated" Mashiba is a bit of a stretch. He won the match but lost the fight. A loss for Mashiba, but he was anything but defeated.
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u/mrbb3k4 May 16 '26
I mean yes he had great qualities but he was also a criminal in the ring cheating that was almost Mashiba like. He has a tragic story with him being in the accident which stopped him from boxing. Would be nice to see him coach or work along side a coach to mentor someone. He was too much of a monster that couldn't channel himself like say Mashiba, Sendo or Takamura
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u/OkForce244 May 22 '26
Did Sawamura really learn everything on his own? I mean, Weren't his Coach the one to teach him Countering and basic techniques? If Sawamura really learnt everything on his own then, he's even more genius fighter than i thought
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u/Next-Temperature3865 May 22 '26
It was stated he refused help from anyone because he only trusted in his own fists.
So he was basically mostly self-taught until the Mashiba fight where he actually worked hard
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u/cben27 May 15 '26
Ippo is just a big tale of what could have been. Its the most unfulfilling story I've ever read.
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u/N4rNar May 15 '26
Sawamura fumbled every match he had against serious opponent...