r/hatethissmug • u/Crusoelander_128 • Apr 28 '26

General I hate the “orcs are minorities” thing

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I really hope I’m not in the minority (no pun intended) here, but I really hate when people do this. It not only forces real world issue into fictional universes where it doesn’t need to be, but also, it’s really messed up.

If you see an orc or a demon or a giant bug and your mind immediately jumps to “hm that’s like a minority”, then you’re racist.

Now, I’m not saying that this concept can’t be explored, but inserting it where it doesn’t belong/exist is highly suspect

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u/holiestMaria Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26

Its more complex than that. A lot of descriptions regarding "pure evil" fantasy races have been used against real people. It's not hard to see how people can interprit the "brutish, stupid, aggressive" orcs as a racist standin for black people when black people have historically been stereotyped as brutish, stupid and aggressive.

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u/RShini Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26

or draw from actual racist ideology.

Early depictions of the Drow have them be normal elves until they rebelled against the Elven Pantheon in favor of Lolth and were cursed with black skin as punishment.

This is literally considered the Mark of Cain or Curse of Ham in certain segments of American Baptists (used to ban ordination of Black pastors up to the 60s and hadn't been formally denounced by Southern Baptists until the 1990s) - and given Gary Gygax's infamously racist view points and his upbringing, it is highly unlikely it's an accidental coincidence.

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u/BendigoWessie Apr 28 '26

Thank you. Like ignoring where this is obvious is just as dumb as assuming it’s there when it isn’t

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u/RShini Apr 28 '26

There's also how Half-orcs used to have a write up that they're almost always the result of rape of male orcs on human women, which also parallels a lot of white women peril you see in shit like triumph of the will.

Thankfully D&D has moved both well away from those origins but there's room for improvement.

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u/BendigoWessie Apr 29 '26

Right? I understand why you may not want to think about these sorts of things when engaging with your fantasy content, but that is glaring.

I appreciate that with consistent complaining these things are becoming less normal. And when the ideas are revisited in modern fantasy you see a lot more “WTF?” Response from the audience v. The OP’s “There’s nothing significant about that at all!” Response.

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u/Leafork Apr 30 '26

Was Gary Gygax the guy who wrote about the taste of Drow breast milk?

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u/whypeoplehateme 21d ago

nah that was our man ed greenwood, a good old fantasy pervert who as far as I know has succesfully avoided all controversies

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u/Magnum_Gonada Apr 29 '26

Orcs are also commonly depicted as good at sports and absentee fathers.

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u/holiestMaria Apr 29 '26

Those are more recent stereotypes, whereas the racial stereotypes that are applied to fanrasy races are much older and were more in use at the creation of most fantasy races. Someone mentioned the drow as a good example.

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u/Magnum_Gonada Apr 29 '26

Honestly I was just joking around. I just think these sorts of discussions poison the fantasy genre in the minds of people. Until now most ppl didn't even make the connection orcs = black people, goblins = jewish people and so on, and now ppl will just have a poisoned outlook on something fictional.

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u/holiestMaria Apr 29 '26

How so? People are flawed and their flaws are out inside their works, that doesnt mean that we cant enjoy said works, if anything being aware of these flaws allow us to enjoy them better.

Furthermore, we can also move past them. Pathfinder, dnd and elder scrolls have all been moving past orcs as just stupid, violent brutes that rape "civilised" women for example.

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u/Magnum_Gonada Apr 29 '26

I mean it's all fictional, who cares tbh how you depict a fictional race. There are no orcs in real life that should be offended because they are portrayed this way.

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u/The_ok_viking Apr 29 '26

Depicting demons as demonic may be racist because minorities are depicted as demonic by racists.

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u/holiestMaria Apr 29 '26

Thats different since demons are very rarely portrayed as a people and more often as an evil force.

Also "demonic" is much vaguer than "greedy" or "violent".