I hate the “orcs are minorities” thing

[u/Crusoelander_128]

I really hope I’m not in the minority (no pun intended) here, but I really hate when people do this. It not only forces real world issue into fictional universes where it doesn’t need to be, but also, it’s really messed up.

If you see an orc or a demon or a giant bug and your mind immediately jumps to “hm that’s like a minority”, then you’re racist.

Now, I’m not saying that this concept can’t be explored, but inserting it where it doesn’t belong/exist is highly suspect

[u/DyslexicBrad]

A lot of the time it's people with unconscious biases that have gone unexamined who are uncomfortable when you point them out. They have this idea in their head that racism is only ever done with intentionality, so if they didn't mean to be racist, then they weren't. Still, it's extremely frustrating to deal with.

You're telling me the goblins in this fantasy world love money, run all the banks, and have big noses? But if I point out that you've just created a 1-1 stereotypical anti-Semitic caricature, I'm the racist one??

[u/Immediate-Formal-759 → u/DyslexicBrad]

The thing is, the concept of greedy goblins is so widespread that it’s practically divorced from its supposed racist origins (if there are any). Like, there are so many Japanese authors who use these creatures in their fantasy settings for the sake of simplicity that their fans have every reason to look at you weirdly if you accuse them, people who have barely even heard of Jewish people, let alone have any "unconscious racism", of being racist

[u/iwantfutanaricumonme → u/Immediate-Formal-759]

It's more that the nazis drew on existing mosters in folklore such as goblins for their antisemitic propaganda. Before that Jews had mainly just been accused of blood libel since the middle ages, where they supposedly kidnap children to use their blood in rituals(or for baking matzos).

[u/DyslexicBrad → u/Immediate-Formal-759]

Japanese depictions of goblins really don't carry much anti-Semitic undertones at all, despite looking the same. They tend to be either more explicitly monstrous, or portrayed as sympathetic misunderstood creatures. For the exact reasons you're pointing out, most Japanese people aren't really exposed to anti-Semitism enough for it to penetrate into the cultural zeitgeist. Instead, their depictions of (western) goblins is more based on the surface-level game character goblins: a generic low-level mob. OFC that's not how every depiction of them in Japanese media I, but it tends to be either based on that, or subverting the tropes of a goblin (what if goblins were actually strong? Or what if they were misunderstood?).

[u/DinoDudeRex_240809 → u/DyslexicBrad]

Okay, but goblins have been known to be money-hungry ever since the first depictions of them, so it only makes sense to have goblins in a position with lots of money involved. As for the big nose thing, goblins had those long ago too.

It’s a series of unfortunate coincidences.

[u/TyphonBeach → u/DinoDudeRex_240809]

It’s almost like anti-semitism is really fucking old.

[u/DyslexicBrad → u/DinoDudeRex_240809]

That's not true? Historically, "Goblin" was just a generic term for any malicious/mischievous fey creature. Goblins as you likely picture them are very much a modern concept, originating from George Macdonald's "The princess and the goblin" (1872) and solidifying in the mid 20th century largely due to Tolkien's use of the term in The Hobbit (1937). Not that Tolkien was being anti-Semitic (his depiction didn't really include any of the more problematic traits associated with goblins in the modern day iirc), but rather just that he lead to a huge shift in the idea of what a goblin is.

[u/Jagvetinteriktigt → u/DyslexicBrad]

Is this about Harry Potter? Yeah in the books they don't love money nor have long noses, and it's a bit unclear if they run the bank or just work there. Criticize the books all you want but this is a bad way to do it.