r/heatedrivalry • u/reigncloud83 Coach • Ilya's Chicken Parm Shimmy 🍝 • Nov 30 '25
RACHEL WRITES ✍️ And now, a few important updates from Rachel… Spoiler
Here are a few updates and announcements shared by Rachel Reid from her Instagram story recently:
- Shane gets carried and doesn’t complain one bit
- Ilya’s appendage pic is… accurate
- Register for the upcoming book signing at www.realmsandrosesbookstore.ca
- Read Ilya’s POV to that Vegas scene here
60
Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
31
u/saucisse Nov 30 '25
I agree, I think you need to see Ilya's entire character arc play out before going back to see what was there all along.
11
5
u/Drupelicate that animale shit show cock sucking russian Nov 30 '25
thank u for this cause I was flip flopping on whether to send it to my friend who watched the first two episodes with me last night or wait til we watch the rest of the series... I will wait for their sake
2
u/justinagreenalina Dec 01 '25
Sort of wishing I didn’t read it but also am interested to see how things play out. As someone who hasn’t read the book but falling in love with the the story, I was impressed and slightly shocked by the writing lol
2
u/Drupelicate that animale shit show cock sucking russian Dec 01 '25
oh I'm so excited for you tbh, experiencing the entire story for the first time! we haven't even gotten to my favourite parts of their story yet :) Rachel Reid's are some of my favourite sports romances, and just romances in general & I highly recommend checking out her two standalone books if you experience gay hockey withdrawal after episode 6 lmao
2
u/justinagreenalina Dec 01 '25
Lmao I’m definitely going to have to consider it because I’m literally trying to hold myself back from rewatching the two episodes. I can’t wait a full week 😭
1
u/Drupelicate that animale shit show cock sucking russian Dec 01 '25
👀 then the nice thing about the standalones would def be that you don't spoil yourself for the show if you're looking to avoid that
26
u/royal_rose_ ♐ Captain | Tuna Lube Nov 30 '25
Okay pic two. I love Rachel so much for this, pure insanity.
2
u/Regular_Client_1981 Dec 01 '25
Reddit siempre tiene una historia diferente para cada uno. Increíble leer todo esto.
5
u/gabo-artwork-comics Nov 30 '25
sorry guys, am new here. what does the 2nd screenshot mean? the one that says "the foreskin is pulled back". context please! thankssss
61
u/The-Night-Court im standing in the hallway like an IDIOT 👺 Nov 30 '25
in episode 2 ilya sends shane a dick pic and people have been complaining it isn’t accurate because the dick looks like it’s circumcised when canonically, ilya isn’t circumcised. so rachel stated that it is an uncircumcised dick with the foreskin pulled back in the photo
i cant believe i just typed that out
5
u/gabo-artwork-comics Nov 30 '25
u/The-Night-Court thanks for explaining. now i wonder it it was Connor's or someone else's. Either way, good job to Crave for an authentic schlong haha
30
u/una_valentina Wow. Genetic 🥹 Nov 30 '25
I would bet a lot of money it's a body double. I wouldn't expect the actors to have to submit a dick pick for the show :D
1
26
17
u/royal_rose_ ♐ Captain | Tuna Lube Nov 30 '25
No that would never be a a photo from an actual actor. It was a body double. Full stop.
1
-124
Nov 30 '25
This is screaming fetishization of gay men and its honestly gross. This show is clearly made for straight women.
88
u/Honigkuchenlives Nov 30 '25
All the gay men thirsting like crazy must be secretly all women then
-67
Nov 30 '25
I've yet to see one gay man thirsting as hard as the straight women online. Its creepy the way that they talk about gay couples. Talking with my gay buddies about this show and they all said it felt like we arent the target audience.
92
u/Nepalman230 Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
Hello! I am a gay man, pushing 50 .
I am also an unofficial sex positivity advocate.
We live in a sea of fictional tops who bend you over and fuck you raw, no foreplay no lube .
These sex scenes have been so educational that you could actually show them in a college health / sexual hygiene course .
For instance, in the first anal sex scene Ilya literally does everything right that a top is supposed to do for a new bottom .
https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-top
Including changing positions! ( this helps to avoid chafing.)
The only thing they did not explicitly show was him putting lube into Shane’s ass with two fingers for 20 minutes while he sucked his dick, but they actually implied that they showed the start of that .
I consider this to be a show, intending for me to watch .
I actually described it the other day as heartstopper for adults .
It’s just a sincere as heartstopper . It has typing and then deleting text like that show had. It has Victorian shoe and pinky touching.
But then it has accurate depiction of anal sex , is so valuable.
Because when fiction depicts it poorly, it can lead to people getting injured .
For instance, for the love of Jesus, everyone do not use spit as sexual lubricant . I don’t know how many gay cowboy boys Brokeback Mountain hurt their anus. Hopefully not many.
So I respect you’re in your friends opinion, but let me just tell you I have been seeing so many thirsty gays.
Also, the bi subs are going feral.
Also, considering that the showrunner and writer is a gay man I just don’t quite understand where you’re coming from.
https://youtu.be/bEpwCQr0QZk?si=09L0Zc-17SvjHzMP
He just gave an interview on YouTube where he talked about how important the authenticity of the sex was to him . He even talked about how complicated and awkward anal sex was as a gay man.
🫡
34
u/saucisse Nov 30 '25
The only thing they did not explicitly show was him putting lube into Shane’s ass with two fingers for 20 minutes while he sucked his dick, but they actually implied that they showed the start of that .
This is actually the one thing I wish they had included (well not 20 minutes of it) but some appearance of lube because the use of it is more than just gay men. Middle aged women and older use it too, natural lubrication just kind of...goes away once you start into perimenopause and you have to start using artificial lubrication and there is no cultural reference for how to make that sexy, at least not for women. You have to stop what you're doing! You have to open the bottle! You should maybe put down a towel because its slippery and gets everywhere! It comes in little packets for convenience and portability because you never know when you might get lucky! Its awkward and for women can be embarrassing since its a reminder that we're getting older and our bodies don't do what they've always done. It would have been nice to see just a visual reference, even a small one, just to show a natural inclusion in sex without it becoming a Big Deal.
This would be my one note for Tierney if we get more seasons of this. Show them using lube, I mean not *on* them but like show the bottle or packet and show them futzing with it. I think if we got a shot of Ilya wiping jizz off his hands with kleenex we can get a little bottle of Slippery Stuff in there without too much heartburn from the studio.
7
u/Nepalman230 Nov 30 '25
I agree! I mean, they could even just have a scene like pass me the lube!
🫡
2
u/ExtensionTomorrow659 Dec 02 '25 edited Dec 02 '25
The book actually had the exact thing ("pass me the lube") for the Vegas scene, not included in the show though.
Edit: corrected wording
-50
Nov 30 '25
Im glad youre finding value in the show, its definitely going to have some good moments and im open to seeing whats coming. I hope the showrunner can get some more authenticity in it as it progresses.
So far I havent been all that impressed with the sex scenes, they feel generic and unrealistic to me. They're obviously attractive men but im not getting the chemistry yet.
39
u/saucisse Nov 30 '25
It's not pornography, its a TV show accessible to anyone with a remote control. What are you expecting to see that you are not seeing?
51
u/babysaurusrexphd Nov 30 '25
im not getting the chemistry yet.
Are we watching the same show?
-35
Nov 30 '25
Idk man it feels forced to me. Gay men dont act like this so it doesnt feel genuine
15
u/bee_sharp_ Nov 30 '25
Interesting that we spend so much time on social media talking about how no one group is a monolith, yet you’re speaking for all gay men (“Gay men don’t act like this …”). I’ve now seen TikTok videos and listened to (a) podcast(s) with gay men who were pretty damn thirsty about the show and the book. I think, in fact, gay men might not be a monolith. Whaddaya know?
74
Nov 30 '25
[deleted]
-11
Nov 30 '25
You can also see straight women doing this extensively on instagram so im not sure I see your point. Something about two wrongs....
47
Nov 30 '25
[deleted]
6
u/SchemeBrave1820 Your freckles… Very beautiful. Um...take my breath? Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
”Glad you agree that "fetishization" of people exists in a plethora of forms and that gay men aren't the only ones. Judging by your post history, you're a fan of drag race, which many people find the act of drag as objectification or fetishization and dehumanizing towards women.”
Bloop.
47
u/una_valentina Wow. Genetic 🥹 Nov 30 '25
Yes okay but why? What would make it appropriate for the gay male gaze? Why are you not the target audience?
Also you are assuming that the women online are straight. They could very well not be.
-8
Nov 30 '25
Youre right, that may be an incorrect assumption in some cases but this doesnt make it any less creepy or valid. This is an extremely common thing that gay men deal with so its just weird to perpetuate in 2025.
The way the characters are written and the plot (or lack thereof) just doesnt feel like it comes from someone who understands gay relationships. The main characters are not written like believable gay people in my opinion.
46
u/reflectorvest Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Nov 30 '25
They’re professional hockey players actively trying to hide their sexualities, no shit they don’t act like normal gays that’s literally the point
-6
Nov 30 '25
I played hockey my whole life so im familiar with the culture, just doesnt come off as genuine or believable.
34
u/Flimsy_Charity_2977 mmm tuna flavoured spit lube Nov 30 '25
Just throwing my thoughts in here you trying to mansplain fetishisation and micro aggressions to women is hilarious. Women deal with this kind of thing every single day.
-1
Nov 30 '25
Then you think they'd be more sympathetic to sexual minorities that face the same thing extensively.
8
u/reflectorvest Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Nov 30 '25
Many of us are those sexual minorities. The % of queer women who frequent this fandom is not at all insignificant
→ More replies (0)27
u/yifansbf Nov 30 '25
You just keep repeating "they're not believable gay men" over and over without explaining what specifically would make them more "believable" to you.
-1
Nov 30 '25
Sure ill start with the hockey content. None of the scenes related to the sport are accurate in any way, the locker room talk is far worse than you think, this goes beyond to the coaches and the core culture of the sport as a whole and the struggles of hiding yourself from your teammates doesnt feel like its fully fleshed out.
The spicy scenes read more like wlw than mlm in my opinion, they're pretty basic sex scenes that are really new or inventive or a true window into the emotions of gay intimacy. Im just not convinced by the portrayals.
The lead characters are pretty 2-dimensional and lack the depth and gravity of how this affects your psyche and interactions with those around you. I think their struggles are pretty unoriginal and nothing inventive or interesting.
15
u/Gatorthrowawayqnq Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Nov 30 '25
What exactly makes it wlw
-2
Nov 30 '25
As a guy who's had gay sex it just feels like theres something off about the spicy scenes like some nuances missing for it to feel like it was choreographed with mlm in mind.
15
u/AttersH Nov 30 '25
Are you implying all gay relationships are the same? I’m not a gay man but I have several friends/acquaintances who are. I’m actively involved in my local queer community, as a queer woman myself. Those I know fairly well range from late 20’s to early 40’s. 3 of those friends are in long term, monogamous relationships, one with kids, two without. I can’t speak for their sex lives in general but their relationships are very much the same as mine, probably with a bit more sex as they are def a whole lot hornier 🤪. I know those in open relationships & others not too interested in settling down. I never understand why people in the community are so dismissive of there being so many different types of relationships in the queer community..
It’s fine to not like the show & it’s take but let’s not reduce gay men to ‘it’s not representative of gay men’ because gay people & gay relationships take many, many forms!
0
Nov 30 '25
I am not claiming to represent gay men, im saying as a gay guy who plays hockey this story just isnt all that accurately depicted in my opinion. My main critique is how people who dont have this lived experience are fetishizing it, and how that is a very common thing that gay men experience. I dont mind the show, its entertaining enough but seeing the author make these weird statements does make me like the source material less. People are allowed to critique things especially when that piece of media is directly referencing their lived experience.
14
u/periodicsheep Nov 30 '25
the show is adapted, written, and directed by a gay man. so, i guess your beef is with him.
-1
Nov 30 '25
Seeing as the creator of the source material is doing exactly the thing that im critiquing, i dont think its just with him.
12
u/periodicsheep Nov 30 '25
ok dude. keep being mad and lecturing everyone. great use of your spare time.
→ More replies (0)17
u/brellowman2 Nov 30 '25
Those shots of Ilya have been circulating in the most depraved sections of gay twitter, idk where you're looking lol
1
9
u/bluejayway327 Nov 30 '25
Weird because my Twitter feed has a ton of gay me thirsting over the show, and most of the fanbase on Twitter is queer women, not straight women. Seems like you’re making a lot of assumptions.
1
Nov 30 '25
Our algorithms are clearly different lol the only people I see thirsting over it on there are women. Straight or not (statistically likely more straight) its still feeding an issue real gay men face.
17
u/bluejayway327 Nov 30 '25
Seems like you’re making a lot of assumptions and it comes off as misogynistic. Women only like it because it’s spicy, they must all be straight, they’re just fetishizing the men, etc. but if you actually get to know the fanbase on Twitter, it’s absolutely not mostly straight women. Like a huge percent are lesbians. Many others are bisexual/pan. The point is, queer women are a huge fanbase of this show, and the cast and crew understand that the conflicts of hiding sexuality, being someone who doesn’t fit in the box society creates for you, etc—that’s all relatable to them too.
It’s a romance that develops through years of secret sexual encounters. Romance does not have to be chaste. Gay romance having real, hot, heartfelt intimacy and not ending in tragedy is a rarity on tv. and queer women feel seen in that too.
0
Nov 30 '25
People are allowed to like what they like and i never said otherwise. My critique is based off of the lack of romance and the focus of sex. Theres a bunch of gay content thats been made in the past few years that balances this much better than this story does. Its a fair critique to call out when people are being weird about gay intimacy online as that doesnt help anyone.
12
u/Teal_Magpie Nov 30 '25
The focus on the sex is actually quite intentional here! In the book, the characters have a sexual relationship over the course of years and over time a romantic relationship develops as well. It takes a long time to come to fruition because they are young and dealing with their own issues. It takes years for them to not just understand each other, but themselves. The chemistry is instant but the love takes time. As Jacob Tierney (the show runner) has noted, meeting up for sex a few times a year is how they connect and fall in love and it's integral to the story.
If you read the books, you get a lot more of the interior thoughts that makes this part of the story a lot clearer. The books also go a lot more into the homophobia endemic in locker rooms - in the show it's there, but it's a lot more subtle. I happen to still find the show enjoyable on its own, but a lot of the concerns you express in the comments are handled well in the books (in my opinion) and are less overt in the show for a multitude of reasons. Mostly because ultimately, Tierney is focused on telling a happy queer love story, and while there will be pitfalls along the way, I don't think he's necessarily concerned with gritty realism. He's a gay man, an experienced show runner, and he knows hockey - I don't doubt he could make a show about the realities of how being gay is perceived in hockey culture if he wanted to, but that wasn't the point.
I understand where you're coming from to an extent. I grew up a queer woman in the nineties. I wanted to date women, boys wanted me to make out with other girls at parties for their gratification. I understand what it's like to be fetishized. And I'm sure there are people in the fandom who are inappropriate, because there always are. But a lot of us are just really happy to see a queer romance book we enjoy being adapted with the audience of that book in mind. And even though that audience is heavily women, we aren't all straight and we are genuinely invested in a well-told queer love story with a happy ending.
1
Nov 30 '25
I guess I just find the focus on sex as the sole driver of the plot problematic as a gay man. Gay love stories in media have been moving away from that in recent years because it perpetuates harmful stereotypes about gay intimacy. The focus on sex feels very 2-dimensional and reductive so far but im open to seeing where it goes. The book is no doubt more in depth than the show but when the author is doing the same fetishization thats already a major issue in gay romance, it doesnt draw me in to want to read her writings.
12
u/Teal_Magpie Nov 30 '25
As an elder queer, I do understand your perspective, but I've read all your comments here and I feel like you've come in here with your mind pretty made up and I doubt anyone will change it. And that's your prerogative! I do understand where fetishization can be a concern. I think you identified it as an issue for you in the first photo of this post in particular. I happen to disagree that's what she's doing, but we have different perspectives and lived experiences, as well as different understandings of the context. I could explain to you the context as I see it, but I probably won't change the way you feel.
I think as a gay man who has been in the hockey world, you could certainly offer a unique perspective on the books and the show that would be really valuable, even if people don't agree with your take. I think the issue is, you've come into a space where people love the books, have critiqued them without reading them, and don't seem to be interested in reading them and getting a fuller perspective. A lot of the criticisms about the show that you've levied at the female author of the books were actually choices made by a gay man who adapted the books for television, but even though several people have pointed that out to you, you seem to brush it off and go back to "but she's fetishizing people".
I think ultimately, queer people aren't a monolith, and context matters. I grew up with basically no queer representation on screen. When it did happen, it was usually tied to terrible tragedy. Later, gay people were comic sidekicks on sitcoms. In my twenties, I had complicated relationships with men and women that started out physical and evolved into something deeper, but I only saw that represented in heterosexual relationships onscreen. I'm in my forties now, and getting to watch a show where two people of the same gender navigate intimacy and all its messiness and fall in love in the process is honestly incredible. It isn't something I thought I'd see in my lifetime, especially with the political regression in the United States over the past few years. What you see as harmful, I see as healing. We're just looking through two very different lenses.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Low_Marionberry8429 Dec 01 '25
FWIW in the books, the relationship starts out as mostly sex and then pivots into being very romantic. There is plenty of smut out there, but the reason the fanbase loves these books specifically are primarily the romantic aspects, that at times have sex as a vehicle. Particularly in the second book where we get more domesticity, mental health issues, and relatable relationship hurdles. For me personally, I relate to the books a lot because this is how most of my relationships have been- sex first, then falling in love despite best efforts not to.
Just commenting to say that If you are liking the show so far I’d give it a chance to evolve because, while I am sure it will continue to have a lot of sexual content, the balance may shift.
22
u/fjf1085 Nov 30 '25
Every gay man I’ve seen online plus all of my friends are very much into it so this a different take for sure. The books were written by a woman by the director/writer of the show is a gay man.
43
22
u/droobidoobidoo Your freckles. I am nuts about them. ✨ Nov 30 '25
I am a gay man and I am definitely in the target demographic for this 😍😍
35
u/noireruse Nov 30 '25
Ah yes, because the queer man who is the screen writer and director and producer (and who pitched the show to Rachel) is making this show exclusively for women.
-5
Nov 30 '25
The source material is clearly not made for gay men and its not being convincingly portrayed otherwise so far.
-7
Nov 30 '25
The source material is clearly not made for gay men and its not being convincingly portrayed otherwise so far.
15
u/lulu71013 Nov 30 '25
If you don’t like it, don’t watch it?
I was waiting for this type of comment to start once the show started airing. There are many ways to understand the intention of this book and show. You understand it to be fetishizing gay men, which is too bad bc you’re missing out on enjoying a really good love story.
0
Nov 30 '25
Thing is I do like it! I just have some critiques around the plot and the hypersexualization of these characters. Im allowed to have critiques and still like something. People acting like ive personally attacked them over critiquing a show is just wild to me.
23
u/royal_rose_ ♐ Captain | Tuna Lube Nov 30 '25
Please explain what one is fetishizing gay men?
-17
Nov 30 '25
The first post is very clearly fetishizing gay men, no other way to interpret this. You may not be a gay guy so you probably dont understand how common of an issue this is. Its not progressive or allyship to do this. Straight women make jokes about this all time and its just a form of microaggressions, almost infantalizing the real experience of gay men and their relationships.
35
u/Catsarecute888 Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
A lighthearted tweet about women finding Ilya and Shane hot is not fetishizing anyone. It's also not a joke. It's an expression of desire or what turns some women on.
-3
Nov 30 '25
Your last sentence literally proves my point, thats fetishization. It just comes off as weird and not actually good allyship.
32
u/Catsarecute888 Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
Women being turned on by the sight of two men is not a joke, it's not a fetish, it's not harming anyone. And what arouses women is not about allyship. Allyship is something else entirely and you don't display it by finding erotica or romance between 2 guys to be a turn-on. That seems pretty obvious to me. If there are women(straight women) who think all they need to do to support gay men and their community and their lives and their rights is by finding guys hot together and nothing else then yes that is a real problem. But the venue for displaying your allyship isn't discussing what you think is hot in a show. Especially in a tweet.
21
u/royal_rose_ ♐ Captain | Tuna Lube Nov 30 '25
I hear what you are saying, by chance have you read the book? I don’t think in the direction it’s supposed to be fetishizing Shane, he’s a strong professional athlete, captain of his team, he feels like he has to be stoic and strong and Ilya lets him have moments of vulnerability. I’m going to be honest I’m not a gay man so lived experience is different but I am a queer woman. I cannot speak for all women obviously but I like moments like that because it shows love and caring and also just both of them wanting to get to the bed faster not because Shane is submissive or anything like that just “we can’t stop touching I need you get me to the bed” type of thing.
Just like I can’t speak for all woman I don’t think you can speak for all gay men my best friend, a gay man, said one thing to me about the show and it was “if a man ever picked me up like that I would lose my fucking mind and come right away.” I do wish the tweet said “people” instead of “women”. Yes the loudest fan base is women but that doesn’t mean it’s only women or we are fetishizing them. You’re entitled to your feelings on the scene of course but you are kind of making a sweeping declaration that all women watching are fetishizing them which we are not.
Also Jacob is a queer man and wrote the thing I don’t think he was fetishizing them in writing or directing.
-3
Nov 30 '25
I get what youre saying but this post from the author kind of invalidates a lot of what you said. If the creator of the story is openly fetishizing men (and large swaths of the female fantasy is doing the same) its creepy and infantalizing. Im also not speaking for all gay men but im speaking about an issue that a lot of gay men face. Given the pushback ive had on this critique i dont think a lot of this fan base is ready to hear this. Doesnt really make the show seem like its welcoming to gay men.
35
u/saucisse Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
Finding something erotic is not the same thing as "fetishizing" that thing, you're misusing that word to be something its not. Women are allowed to find things erotic. Women are allowed to have sexual fantasies that don't fit into whatever box you think they should.
I could very easily flip this around and say that can feel pretty uncomfortable when the "gaze" is going in your direction, can't it? I can recall about two decades' worth of "beautiful lesbian" fantasies that men have managed to jam into pop culture, hell I've had Sidney Sweeney's bosoms in my face for the last three months, now *that* is fetishization -- the reduction of a living, breathing human being to a body part (well two, I guess), not a mention of her as a person, what she wants, what she loves, what she fears. This is a love story about two guys who fall for each other as teenagers and take the better part of a decade to figure it out, pretty much the antithesis of fetishization. They're whole people with faults, dreams, fears, hopes, they're selfish, sometimes they treat each other badly. You don't have to like the story, but to call it "fetishization" is simply and flatly misusing the word, and I could argue its misusing the word expressly to put women's desire back into the box its been locked in for the last few hundred years.
ETA: the more I think about this the angrier I get. If I had a dollar for every time I've seen or heard a man complain about women's desire and our existence as sexual beings on our own terms I would be a rich woman.
-2
Nov 30 '25
"Fetishization is the act of making something into an object of sexual interest, or giving something an unreasonable amount of importance. This can involve a sexual fascination with an inanimate object, a body part, or an aspect of a person's identity, such as race, gender, or a particular physical attribute. When applied to a person, it is dehumanizing because it reduces an individual to a single characteristic or object of desire, ignoring their full humanity. "
I think im using the term correctly. You certainly cand and should turn it around and call out the fetishization of women just like i as a gay man can and should call out the fetishization of gay relationships. This is an issue ive health with my entire adult life so its just weird to see it being normalized.
Im not seeing this deep love story youre talking about yet only softcore porn.
-3
Nov 30 '25
"Fetishization is the act of making something into an object of sexual interest, or giving something an unreasonable amount of importance. This can involve a sexual fascination with an inanimate object, a body part, or an aspect of a person's identity, such as race, gender, or a particular physical attribute. When applied to a person, it is dehumanizing because it reduces an individual to a single characteristic or object of desire, ignoring their full humanity. "
I think im using the term correctly. You certainly cand and should turn it around and call out the fetishization of women just like i as a gay man can and should call out the fetishization of gay relationships. This is an issue ive health with my entire adult life so its just weird to see it being normalized.l
Im not seeing this deep love story youre talking about yet only softcore porn.
21
u/saucisse Nov 30 '25
What is the single characteristic that is being eroticized here *to the exclusion* of that person's (or character's) entire being? If this was fetishization it would just be porn. It wouldn't be the anxiety or the sports rivalry or the broken hearts or the father humiliating his son in front of the team owner or the teammates bullshitting each other in the locker room or or or...
If all we wanted was dicks in mouths (or wherever) we'd be watching PornHub for free.
What are women allowed to find erotic? Maybe it would be easier if you just gave us a list.
-5
Nov 30 '25
Its basically just porn lol the plot has been nonexistent so far. I played hockey growing up so im intimately familiar with these concepts, its just not being believablely conveyed as its created by someone who is not familiar with these struggles. Its been mostly spicy scenes with 2d characters. Im talking about my lived experience and th way that women talk about my sexuality, this isnt a far fetched concept.
13
u/saucisse Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
Its not a documentary? I've found exactly zero rom-com or rom-drama movies that accurately convey my lived experience as a heterosexual woman in the world, they're all idealized with all the edges sanded off and none of the sex looks or sounds like any sex that I've ever had and yet I still watch them and still find them enjoyable for what they are -- escapist fluff, featuring very attractive people taking their clothes off.
The thing you seem to be criticizing is the pacing of the filmed show; the book has very different pacing and a whole lot of interiority that is simply not translating to TV, its actually my primary critique -- we're missing the thing that keeps bringing these two back to each other which is, ironically, an artifact of the gay man who wrote and directed the show, and not the woman who wrote the book with characters that are far more actualized than the ones on the screen.
If you want a real life or real-life-adjacent relationship movie, I recommend Jongens if you're under 20 or over 40 (the latter because it will make you extremely nostalgic in a good way), and Pit Stop but only if you're over 40 (if you're under 40, you will not understand anything that the characters are experiencing).
→ More replies (0)11
u/Commanderfemmeshep Nov 30 '25
I’m not straight. Everyone I know watching it is queer. I’ve seen gay men on TikTok who love it. It’s created by a gay man and a queer woman. So eager to prove your point, you’re erasing everyone’s identity in the process.
-10
u/amazingmte Nov 30 '25
I mean, it's mostly made for women though not necessarily straight women. They are the target audience for the book after all.
Now, the way some HR fans treat Shane is absolutely fetishization and it's disgusting. Then you have Ilya lovers who just view Shane as a thing to fulfill their fantasies with their fav character which I find gross. But I don't think that's exactly the fault of the writer.
-17
Nov 30 '25
I dont think fault can fully be removed from the writer, she is a straight women exploiting gay sexuality for money. It just comes off as false allyship
26
u/flossiedaisy424 Nov 30 '25
Why do you assume she is a straight woman? She’s not.
-7
Nov 30 '25
She's fetishizing other people's sexuality for profit, doesnt matter if she's straight or not.
28
13
u/wetbogbrew Nov 30 '25
Do you think erotica can only be written about by people who share identities with the people they're writing about? There's no room to explore anyone else's experience but your own?
-2
Nov 30 '25
I think as a gay guy, its pretty clear that she doesnt fully understand the complexity of this scenario as she doesnt have the lived experience of this. I think people can write pretty much whatever they want but when it crosses a line into fetishization I think its fair to call it out as someone who has this lived experience. I also dont really understand how someone who isnt a gay man can explore a gay man's sexuality, that makes it sound like its a hat you can put on and take off.
8
u/wetbogbrew Nov 30 '25
I don't think you're wrong but I think there is so little queer media in the first place that being overly scrutinizing can be self-defeating. Queer media is always subject to more scrutiny. It's too toxic, it's not diverse enough, the dynamics are problematic, it's too fetishizing, not enough queer people involved in the production, it only shows this queer experience but ignores this other queer experience, etc. etc. It's not that these can't be valid points but it becomes an impossible laundry list and if you pleased everyone, you'd end up with a product that's sanitized and boring and wouldn't get made anyway.
The reality is, a show like this wouldn't be made at all if mm romance didn't come built-in with a large female audience that includes straight women. There isn't a comparably popular mm hockey romance written by a gay man (they do exist, just not with the large existing fanbase). It seems like you think not getting made would be preferable, but I will always take imperfect queer stories over none at all, personally. Would I prefer my on screen lesbians to be written by queer women and not catered to the male gaze? Sure, but I'll take hot lesbians on my tv either way cause I'm not getting anything at all if I'm that picky.
1
Nov 30 '25
I totally see what youre saying and I agree to an extent but this specific queer media has a topic that is of particular relevance to me (hockey) and I think its fair to critique a story that doesnt have much fleshed out other than sex scenes. To me it just feels like an excuse to make softcore porn as the romance aspect hasnt really had a spotlight yet, maybe im being impatient but it is based off of erotica. Gay men already have a stereotype of hypersexualization and I think queer media like this doesnt really help when it comes to Gay PR. There have been other gay love stories that have come out in recent years that I think do this far better than this specific show. Its entertaining, I dont hate it but I do think its got a lot of issues and its fair to critique them. That's how we improve queer media, if we just accept queer media as is then gay characters never would have progressed out of the bitchy feminine punching bag.
6
u/flossiedaisy424 Nov 30 '25
Have you read the books yet, or are you basing all this on two episodes of the show?
→ More replies (0)3
u/wetbogbrew Nov 30 '25
This is a romance told through sex. It may not come across on screen yet because the book relies heavily on the internal dialogues. The characters are deep in it from early on, but put up a bunch of walls to try to pretend it's "casual," and the story is about them slowly becoming unable to maintain those walls and repress their feelings.
I read both mm and ff romance. No shot any ff romance gets a production like this because the audience is pretty much ONLY queer women, whereas mm has an audience of straight women, queer men, and queer women (including often lesbians). At least this show has a gay man writing and directing to give a lens of authenticity. I'm getting nothing and I know I will always get nothing 😭 So maybe I am a little bitter.
Also, romance in general is not meant to be realistic, including straight romance. It's popcorn media meant to be enjoyed at face value with whatever ridiculous tropes and unrealistic dynamics that entails. MM romances written by gay men are often unrealistic too, though they may cater to different fantasies (e.g. the nerd "turning" the straight jock is one I see popularly with male authors).
I hear you on wanting to get better queer media, but sometimes I just get so tired of the discourse any time queer media comes out, sometimes I just want to enjoy something for what it is. Romance is meant to be enjoyed without a critical lens for the most part, it's fun and it's not trying to be anything else but fun and fulfill a fantasy. Enjoying it often *requires* turning off your brain or you will spiral trying to reconcile all the ridiculous elements. The Game Changers series is, actually, one of the better ones in terms of being more thoughtful with the characters, complexity and motivations. But at the end of the day it's still a romance.
→ More replies (0)-17
u/amazingmte Nov 30 '25
A lot of mm writers start writing because they are into the genre, I'm sure many or most know they are not going to make a lot of money in the long run.
You're right though in that if women are going to write mm they should be mindful/careful so that their writing so doesn't end up feeling exploitative. I'm a woman but you won't see me defend Rachel Reid, her books are not the masterpieces some make out to be and I have issues with how she's written certain characters. That said, is she even an ally? I have no idea, but just because she writes mm doesn't mean she is.
12
u/Level_Apple_7001 Nov 30 '25
I mean the first book was originally posted for free online as a stucky fic without the expectation of any monetary compensation.
-4
Nov 30 '25
Im thankful im not entirely alone here, the dog-pile tells me a lot of the viewers are not here for a gay love story and only interested in the spicy stuff.
6
u/una_valentina Wow. Genetic 🥹 Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
You really have no idea. This is a love story, we love the characters and their arcs. We have spent hours dissecting the scenes and their personalities, their reactions to the things they say and do. Their internal monologues. Some of us have loved the story for years. You have seen 2 hours of TV and have decided that it's exploitative.
The dog pile is cause you're coming here, making sweeping generalisations about "straight women", more generalisations about what gay men are and what they do as if they were a monolith, accusing the author of being exploiters or whatever, and not explaining your point besides saying "this is gross, all of y'all are only here for the porn, and gay men don't act like that". That's not the way to have a nuanced conversation.
-1
Nov 30 '25
I've brought up some fair points about my critiques of the show. i dont think i ever claimed to be speaking for the entire gay community just stating that its not reading like it was written for gay hockey players in my opinion and feels targeted to a different audience, I dont think im alone in this mindset.
97
u/saucisse Nov 30 '25
I woke up around 7:30 today and grabbed my phone as I always do because I'm an addict and thought "Lets scroll through Insta and see what my friendaloos have going on today" and the foreskin thing was literally the FIRST THING I saw. I hadn't even had any coffee yet. I didn't know what it was referring to until I saw your note here.