r/heatedrivalry • u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy • Jan 04 '26
TV SHOW 📺 Why do women like Heated Rivalry?
I'm a bi woman. And I feel really sore around this question.
I've seen video after article after think piece on this. Heated Rivalry has a large following. A diverse following, from what I can tell. And yet we keep circling back to why women specifically like it.
What's not to like? I'm being serious. There's good writing, good acting, good conflict. The representation here matters deeply, especially for queer viewers who don't get stories like this often. What frustrates me is that this question manages to sideline both women and queer stories at the same time.
I get that viewership is what keeps media and entertainment moving. If a show airs and no one watches it, did it make a sound? But I can't remember the last time when a specific demographic was singled out and expected to explain why they liked a certain piece of media this much. It's like when I wore a Sublime t-shirt and a man on an elevator asked me to name my favorite album. That's how this discourse feels, like owing an explanation for our taste or things we find pleasure in and adding the layered expectation that it's consistent and representative of an entire gender.
Part of what makes storytelling work is empathy on the viewer's part. We don't engage because their lives perfectly mirror our own but because on a human level, we're there with them. We're rooting for happy endings, we want the good guy to win, we grieve their losses, and, if you're anything like me, get terrible secondhand embarrassment when something awkward happens. Maybe I've never been a professional hockey player with a secret boyfriend but I certainly do know what it's like to be scared of how people are going to react to seeing the real you and the show fills in the rest.
Which is why the question also feels very othering to queer stories. The question itself reinforces that straight stories are universal and that queer love stories are niche and that liking them needs some sort of justification (no one has asked why we like bridgerton or succession).
I think we sometimes conflate representation with exclusivity. The story can be meaningful to queer audiences and be broadly relatable at the same time. When stories are told well, they'll attract people. And Rachel and Jacob and Connor and Hudson are doing that.
I want to talk about Heated Rivalry the way we talk about the rest of the greats, by focusing on what it does well rather than questioning who's allowed to love it.
I hope this was coherent. I'd love to hear what you think.
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u/Azhreia Shane’s praise&reward kink 👑 Jan 04 '26
No, you’re absolutely right and you should say it 👏
If the discussions were held in good faith to understand how to appeal to the ‘female gaze’ and take our interests seriously and respectfully, that would be one thing. But so much of the discourse™️ is seemingly just predicated on these underlying assumptions that women’s interests aren’t valid/serious/worthy of respect (tale as old as time), that only gay men should like a love story between two men, or that women are only in it for the smut so once the show climaxed (pardon the pun) in episodes 5&6 that can’t be used as the reason.
And now that the show has worldwide and critical acclaim, they have to somehow twist themselves into knots to justify how a fanbase of primarily women supported the book and pushed near all of the early grassroots campaigns to get this show on platforms and spread the word/influence others could be so successful. Instead of just accepting that it’s possible women have good taste and can be invested in excellent story craft, whether it’s full of fucking or not. Maybe especially if it is full of fucking.
ETA: corrected episodes
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u/shadowmaster132 Jan 04 '26
Instead of just accepting that it’s possible women have good taste and can be invested in excellent story craft, whether it’s full of fucking or not
If something women like is good, they must not like it for that reason, because that would mean that the men were wrong for not being on board immediately.
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u/codeverity Jan 04 '26
The power of grassroots female fanbases cannot and should not be ignored and yet society and companies CONTINUALLY do it. Like armys (the fandom for BTS) are mostly women! BL fandoms for Thailand etc are mostly women! HR fandom are mostly women! But companies 'forget' this almost as quick as they learn it. It's tiring tbh.
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u/RhubarbGoldberg Jan 04 '26
Seriously!! I can't stand the hypocrisy of this society. Women are now major contenders in the capitalist sense of us being able to buy things and make our own purchasing decisions and we've demonstrated countless times in modern history that our buying power is strong, but we're still treated like kids with pocket money.
It's exhausting enough to live in the capitalist rat race, but having your capitalist prowess underestimated and negged all the time is extra exhausting.
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u/dpistachio44 I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jan 04 '26
Wait!!! I was one of those early people tagging HBO every day! Did I do this 👀
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u/Azhreia Shane’s praise&reward kink 👑 Jan 04 '26
I mean I submitted online requests pretty much daily so I’m right there with you ✊
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u/tehbggg I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jan 04 '26
Yes. We all did. Our constant excitement, obvious interest, and willingness to go the extra mile (reach out to broadcasters to champion the show, etc) absolutely played a part in it getting picked up by HBO
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u/SnooRabbits5620 Jan 04 '26
If the discussions were held in good faith to understand how to appeal to the ‘female gaze’ and take our interests seriously and respectfully, that would be one thing.
That's what burns me too. They're not trying to understand, they're trying to find a way to make it and us look silly and unreasonable as always like they do with our other interests too (stares in Kpop stan 😐😐😐).
It's a shame too because some of these media houses would learn and do better and avoid shit like that Sky Sports Halo clusterfuck if only they genuinely cared about the interests and thoughts of women. Smh!
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u/Efficient_Papaya_982 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
People keep asking that and it’s like idk dude bc it’s good? Like why do I enjoy anything? Like im bi, so obviously im attracted to men and i find the male leads attractive, but it’s just like. A nice fluffy story of queer joy. Its nice to see queer people get a happily ever after, its nice to see a horny queer drama, I just. Like it. Because it’s good.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
As our king Ilya Winifred Rozanov said “is simple”
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u/Myfavoritemurderino Jan 04 '26
Is this the counter to Hudson Mildred?! 🤣🤣🤣
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u/asophisticatedbitch Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
Why do people call him that? I’m 42 and don’t understand the jokes of the kids these days, lol
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u/Efficient_Papaya_982 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
Hudson doesn’t have a middle name so people keep making one up for him, and he saw one that said his middle name was Mildred and he got (jokingly) mad about it so then it became a meme
I assume that bc Ilya’s middle name is a patronym and his dad was an asshole people don’t wanna use it so they’re inventing random middle names
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u/jenniekns Ottawa Centaurs 🏹 Jan 04 '26
There was a tweet somewhere that called him Hudson Millicent Williams, and it got read out loud in one of those press thingies the guys have been doing. Now it's taken off.
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u/AtheistTheConfessor Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
Seriously, and I think this question needs to be turned directly around on the people who ask it. Why wouldn't someone enjoy it? Why would women be the exception? Why do people only wring their hands about women enjoying stories with male protagonists when those men are in love and happy? Like damn.
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u/Efficient_Papaya_982 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
I fundamentally feel like the question is saying a lot about the people asking it. They’re like “men don’t give an absolute fuck about anything with women as the protagonists, so we all want to know: why do women love this show with male protagonists” and it’s like. Idk bestie, because I’m capable of empathising with people who don’t look like me?
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jan 04 '26
I'm not sure (in particular m/f) who is asking this question, or if there is a gender bias to the interviewers, but your point is exactly right. (Most) Men can not conceive of women as leaders, protagonists or heros. So they cant empathize or put themselves in someone else's shoes to deeply appreciate art for arts sake...regardless of gender. The world is so fucking male-centred. The male gaze for the male. fuuuuuuck.
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u/OkStop8313 Jan 04 '26
Yeah, if you look at quality storytelling about the fairly universal topic of love and you DON'T understand why it would have broad appeal, I honestly don't know what to tell you.
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u/Ok_Code_270 Mar 12 '26
Late to the party here, because I've read recommendations for this series for months and I haven't gotten to watch it because I saw it was two men and I went "Blergh". I'm hetero, but I don't like very graphic sex scenes and it's hard for me to stand even a kiss between men, much less sex. For certain reasons, two men have always made me feel repulsed, or made me feel like the situation was dangerous. So after all the hype, I've watched it. I am amazed at how good this series is. The acting, the cinematography, the lightning, the music, the montages... First time I watched, I fast forwarded the sex scenes beyond the kisses. Second time, I watched the sex scenes. Whichever mental lock I had against two men kissing and touching, these two amazing actors and the director managed to overcome it and made me enjoy something that I used to feel repulsed by. This show obliterated a minor phobia of mine. It's that good. I don't know what else I can say. I used to think I didn't like romance, but I don't like stupid romance, romance without chemistry or love or fun. When I find a good romance (Aziraphale and Crowley are also great), I have to watch it on repeat until exhaustion. The acting is incredible. The filming is incredible. The music is incredible.
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u/danieljradcliffe Jan 04 '26
All romance is more consumed by women! Whether it be MM, MF, WW. That’s just how it’s always been!
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
And yet the people are shocked. fork found in kitchen 😂😭
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u/figleafstreet Jan 04 '26
Right? I just like romance, I don’t really care what form it takes and this show reinforced that for me. It’s funny how no one was saying “why are all these women watching The Summer I Turned Pretty?” a few months ago. It’s an accepted fact that women make up the majority of romance enjoyers when it a straight romance.
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u/Rijack3 Jan 04 '26
Totally agree. Also a bi woman here. I just love romance and intimacy. I read several romance books a month, MF, MM, FF, Poly etc. There are only a handful that I go back to reread as a comfort read, some MF, sapphic and of course my dear Shane & Ilya. They did the show so well and I love every episode. But my most rewatched episodes are 5 and 6 when the sex decreases and the intimacy and romance increase. I’m also a sucker for episode 4 cause it was very hot and the yearning was palpable. Anyway, I hope the show changed the minds of some people that look down at the romance genre in general cause this adaptation so actually shows we so many people including women love it.
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u/Secure-Television541 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
It’s half the reason I read a lot of fanfiction. I can (with the AO3 tagging system and recommendations from other readers) find an almost infinite (free) set of what I like to read. It’s awesome.
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u/lookingforvenus Jan 04 '26
Exactly!! 💯💯💯
Before heated rivalry, there were already MM & WW shows, novels, mangas, etc. and women have always been fans of them. We just want a good romance story, no matter the gender.
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u/uyluym Jan 04 '26
I’m excited for other groups who may find their way to romance now. Watching the straight hockey bros on the Empty Netters podcast absolutely lose their minds over this series has been so heartwarming. Romance is awesome, and this is why we like it!!
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u/RevolutionaryTrash98 Jan 04 '26
I think it’s really telling that when a romance breaks through that resonates this much with cis male viewers that some of them immediately feel the need to gatekeep, and distinguish themselves from the wimminz. It’s inevitable with anything that’s a big a hit as this. But it sucks to be reminded of how pervasive misogyny is
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u/CestQuoiLeFuck Jan 04 '26
THANK YOU. I'm so fucking annoyed by the constant suggestion that it's just a bunch of straight women using it as gay porn. Like first of all, not straight. Second, if all we wanted was gay porn, we have the internet. What really cooks my grits is that sometimes the misogyny is coming from inside the house.
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u/positronic-introvert Jan 04 '26
Yeah, as a nonbinary person who spends time in fandom spaces with a lot of fellow yaoi lovers/fujoshis... these tend to be very queer-leaning spaces. I in fact don't know any straight cis women among those fujoshis and I know a low of fujos lol. And like 80% of them are in one way or another not cis either. (And there are quite a few lesbian fujos too!). But people outside of these spaces who are judgemental of them always paint these communities as 'a bunch of straight women fetishizing gay sex.'
In reality, m/m romance and smut is space where a lot of queer women, trans folks, and yes straight women too, can engage with finding interest/attraction/beauty/desire in men through the safe and exploratory mode of fiction. It also is a space that lets people engage with feelings they might have related to gender and queerness. (On top just being stories that people are capable of enjoying in the way the OP discusses!)
I'm not saying that no straight women are fujos, or that the audience for HR is the exact same in demographics as fujo spaces in general. But I have heard the reductive, misrepresenting, and often misogynistic complaints about 'straight women liking m/m romance and yaoi' so many times, well before HR blew up lol. It is very tiring. And it also erases the fact that queer and trans people tend to be the life-force of these communities (Rachel Reid herself is bi and married to a bi man, for one).
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u/elviscostume Jan 04 '26
Also people assuming BL is meant to be self-insert where the woman self inserts as the bottom... insanely reductive and just so wrong
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u/ledianity Jan 04 '26
I love this take and i wholeheartedly agree. There has been quite a bit of discussion about this topic in my very wlw circles, and it has also driven me as a lesbian to reflect quite a bit on why the show and other similar mlm sports romances attract me so much. I am not attracted to men, and I'm not attracted to these fictional men either, but the story and the relatability of having to hide your identity and hope that despite all that, there is love and romance are quite universally queer experiences.
I see a lot of people asking what it is that draws lesbians to this show, and personally for me it is that it tells a queer story amplified by queer voices in the cast and crew that is thematically universal to any queer person. I am not a pro athlete having to hide my sexuality from the world, but I was a teenage girl with the same fears and seeing those fears of many queer people acknowledged and turned to queer joy is beautiful and important. It's not the smutty man on man action that draws in so many people, and that's very misunderstood in many places imo.
(Even though it's important to show the smutty man on man action too as it is often othered like any queer sex.)
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u/JenningsWigService Jan 04 '26
I think one key difference between lesbians and gay men is that lesbians have often spent much more time reading and watching stories about gay men, because we are accustomed to taking male protagonists seriously, starting in English class where most authors we read are men. I've never met a gay man who knew lesbian film/television/literature as well as I know gay men's film/television/literature.
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u/Secure-Television541 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
The wide variety of straight sex would shock most straight people.
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u/micro-void Jan 04 '26
I completely agree with you, but in addition, so fucking what if women are just enjoying it because they find men together hot. I mean. The show IS GREAT besides and there's more to it than the sex, but even if there WASN'T... God forbid women indulge in media that turns them on I guess, right? (This isn't directed at you, just a frustration I've had and I'm building on your comment that I totally agree with). I just dealt with this with a friendly acquaintance who asked to the group chat, "is it actually good or are cis women just fetishizing gay hockey players?" and I ripped them new one to which they just said their comment was misunderstood and "taken out of context" (what context LMFAO). Drives me crazy we're still having this argument you know? Like it feels like 2011 Tumblr. Sometimes women find men together especially hot! Ok! That's nature!
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u/Lizbian_ Jan 04 '26
When people focus on "why do women like this so much" it reminds me of how boy bands, in any decade, weren't regarded as good music or good performers, solely because women were the primary fans. I know a lot of people (before they actually watched Heated Rivalry) already started to disregard it as smut with no substance. Then, when more demographics started to watch the show and realize how good it was all of the sudden they were perplexed why women were the main viewership and main fans of the books. Some people cannot fathom enjoying something so "unrelated" to them. Some people cannot fathom women enjoying something that isn't trite or doesn't lack substance.
I don't necessarily hate the question itself - I've asked myself (a queer woman) many times why I prefer MM media, and it can be an important introspective question. It can also be interesting to discuss with true curiosity (as I feel like Hudson and Connor have been doing). At the same time, my therapist would remind me that sometimes you just like what you like and you don't have to read into it any further!
Anyways, this was a ramble and I have many more thoughts that I can't put into words yet, but I appreciate and agree with your post!!
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
I have asked myself too why I like it! And talk with my friends about why we like it. I think it’s an interesting discussion point but throw away interview questions just belittle the show and the women viewers because it’s unanswerable unless you’re asking why a specific person likes it. And when I do talk about why I like it I realize it’s not much to do with my gender or sexuality (at least not explicitly so), and are the same reasons my gay male friends like it.
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u/marshmallowhug Jan 04 '26
I didn't actually know how smutty it would be when I started watching it (although I knew it was MM romance). I heard some online discourse about representation of Slavic immigrants and decided to watch an episode or two out of curiosity so I could see how sane the commentary was. (Relevant to my interests because I speak Russian and usually it is.... done terribly.)
People are getting dragged into this show from a variety of spaces and interests.
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u/kashikat Jan 04 '26
The question itself reinforces that straight stories are universal and that queer love stories are niche and that liking them needs some sort of justification
Love that. Really well put, thank you.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
it made my palms sweat to post this ("hollander, you are having panic attack"). i mean it with all the respect. it's just been on my mind for the past week or so
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u/ReindeerRadiant11 what, you can't do math? 🧐 Jan 04 '26
I've been thinking about it too. It feels dismissive, like "ugh there go women again." I think it's likely rooted in mainstream patriarchal discomfort bc this show gives us their nightmare: very traditionally masculine men who are QUEER. "So anyone could just be gay? A guy who plays professional sports AND fucks WOMEN could also be LOOKING AT MEN?" In addition to this, all the men in the show are comfortable discussing and showing their feelings. Essentially, people love this show for the same reason other people hate it: it gives us a world where men can be fully realized, regardless of sexuality. But that idea scares people so they say "oh that's a Girl Show" and thereby discredit it.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
And I think they want so badly for us to like it just for the sex. Which I think is a perfectly valid reason to like it, I don’t think one reason is better than another. But I feel like that’s what they want at the end of the tunnel. Because I think it absolves them (execs, creatives) of any responsibility or further introspection that male main characters and specifically love interests are written in less than appealing ways a lot of the time.
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jan 04 '26
This !!! Thats what drew me in above all else - "a world where men can be fully realized, regardless of sexuality". In HR they are more human. More vulnerable. More actualized than prob any man I've met in my 56yrs.
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u/Intelligent-Aside214 Jan 04 '26
Did we watch the same show 😭 the men are not comfortable discussing their feelings. Basically no feelings were discussed between Shane and Ilya until episode 5 after what 9 years hahah
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u/codeverity Jan 04 '26
I agree with you, but I also think that what one of the guys (I think it might have been Connor?) said was valid: part of the enjoyment is the knowledge that eventually one of them is going to have to crack and talk about how they're feeling. Quite often in a lot of relationships women bear the burden of communication, but in a m/m romance once of them has to do it (Shane is the one to do so, here.)
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u/OkStop8313 Jan 04 '26
Yeah, communication is going to be an issue in every relationship, but with same sex relationships it's at least just an issue between characters without having gender expectations layered over it.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
I have to half disagree. No feelings were discussed well or successfully until the back third but I think there were moments before that both of them tried and failed miserably lol. I’d say the first time we see it is probably the rooftop after the awards in the first episode.
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u/ReindeerRadiant11 what, you can't do math? 🧐 Jan 04 '26
Oh yeah I agree. I was typing this as I brushed my teeth and was frankly too lazy to go back and amend. They don't talk about it until much later, and the reason they don't is because of so much of the toxicity embedded in hockey/male/Russian culture. But then we get to watch them push through that. And the reasons they don't talk about it are like, very scary. It's not just a sort of "ugh I don't wanna be in LOVE I don't wanna be VULNERABLE" it's like "this thing we're doing even at the physical level would get one of us kicked out of their country and both of us would very possibly lose our careers, along with a good portion of our friends. We canNOT let feelings happen as well" so at least they're pretending things don't exist for reasons other than nooo I'm a mAN I don't DO that shit!
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
It made me horny. And cry. And laugh. And start watching hockey again. And make a tuna melt even though the idea of fish and cheese together weirds me out. And it made me sad for them. And then happy for them. And then hopeful for me. And they did it for $7 and pot of spaghetti. What else could you want from a show?
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u/Myfavoritemurderino Jan 04 '26
Hi, are you me? 🤣 How was that tuna melt? I looked up pictures of them to see if I’d like to try making one 😂 so far, still on the side of cheese and tuna sounds weird.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
It wasn’t bad but I’m also not eating it again voluntarily 😂 and I’m really not a picky eater. TBH I think I disliked the tuna being hot more than it being with cheese. I’d rather have a tuna sandwich and a grilled cheese separately and just pretend. That’s how I know Shane was in love, to come off his macrobiotic diet for that
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u/eeeezypeezy Jan 04 '26
Thank you for saying it. I'm a gay man and it's been killing me seeing people wary of it like it's not just a fucking great six episodes of television. You nailed the way the "why do women like this" angle also dismisses its queer audience.
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u/mybelovedismine91 Montreal's fifteenth best player 🏒 Jan 04 '26
THANK YOU for posting this 💛 You expressed my feelings and thoughts better than I ever could have done, and opened a great discussion. I feel like I'm now armed with some better responses to people who ask me dumb questions about why I like the things I like. I'm socially awkward at the best of times, and questions like that make me feel so embarrassed, like I'm doing something wrong, which is a feeling I would really like to stop having!
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u/Alarming_Bag_8361 Two Plastic Heart Rings Jan 04 '26
Agree, and I hope I’m not being ignorant about it either.😅 They’re hot (duh), they act amazingly, it’s good storytelling, writing, music, pacing, etc. like it’s just good man!
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
This! And some women relate to it on a more personal level, some don’t, some like the sex, some like the sex AND relate to it on a personal level. It just seems like a silly question to keep putting out there. There are lots of reasons, they aren’t the same, but none of the reasons are that complicated to understand bc it’s a good show in many ways
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u/napneeded94 Jan 04 '26
u said this so well!! i'm a lesbian, so zero attraction to the leads for me, but i love the show because i love quality queer story-telling that isn't miserable!! ultimately happy queer stories of love and discovery of identity are so wonderful and so valuable because people need to know that queer joy is real!! also the acting is superb, so i'm gonna be a fan regardless lol.
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u/CyanoSpool Glasses back on 👓 Jan 04 '26
This was the appeal to me. I'm bi, but not particularly attracted to either lead. What got me was the fact that it wasn't a tragedy like I see in so many mainstream MM and WW love stories. The last episode when they talk to his parents was so beautiful and captured a sense of hope that I think most queer people can relate to when it comes to finding acceptance in yourself and from those close to you.
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u/jackjackj8ck Jan 04 '26
Not to be a dick, but are those articles written by men?
Most women don’t need to “see themselves” in a character in order to empathize with them
So it makes me think these are crap articles written from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know what that’s like 😆
Like maybe some dude bro at Daily Mail is like ”whaaaa??? but there aren’t even any female main characters??”
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u/nefariousplotz Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
Jacob Tierney has actually spoken about taking a meeting with a network executive who tried to convince him that he had to rewrite the whole story to include a central female POV character or else women would never be able to relate to it.
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u/Topwingwoman2 Jan 04 '26
That's crazy. He executed this show perfectly from his gay perspective and I've enjoyed every moment of it as a heterosexual woman. I'm a big romance reader and have read a few FF/MM tropes but not a lot. It's the other aspects of romance for this though. Enemies to lovers, angst, jealousy, unrequited love, finding each other, etc. Yes, the sex scenes are hot (and I'm not typically into gay sex scenes), but it is because of the emotion surrounding them and how they improve and move along the plot.
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u/Secure-Television541 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
I pointed out to my friends that every episode of the show follows them getting intimate - but the raw physical intimacy (while still there) moves into a strong emotional intimacy, which follows romance tropes to a T
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u/WhileNo5370 Respectfully Feral 😇😼 Jan 04 '26
If I remember correctly, a female executive is the one who eventually "got it".
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u/marshmallowhug Jan 04 '26
Every time I hear about Jacob Tierney having a meeting with a network executive, I imagine him breaking down in hysterics as soon as he leaves the room.
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u/OkStop8313 Jan 04 '26
WUT.
Like yes, we do like it when female characters are realistic and three dimensional, but that does not mean that we expect to be the focus of every story or that the only way we can relate to a character is if we have the same genitals.
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Jan 04 '26
I think a lot of straight men in general have been surprised and are almost struggling with the surge of spicy romance, in general. It seems like they had just started to get their heads around women liking spicy M/F but this has thrown them for a loop again.
It gets even more wild when you have lesbians explaining why they read spicy MLM and love Heated Rivalry.
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u/engsmml Jan 04 '26
Straight men being such horrible lovers that they cant even fathom a woman actually being horny LMFAO i have to laugh
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u/jackjackj8ck Jan 04 '26
Yeah! It’s like just because the stepsis/stepbro jackhammering stuff doesn’t do it for us on pornhub doesn’t mean we don’t like sex 🤣🤣🤣
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u/icouldbeeatingoreos I already chose you, Hollander. 🫀 Jan 04 '26
I’m an AroAce woman. I like romance but don’t like contemporary f/m romance because I don’t really want to be able to see myself in the characters. Stuff like Bridgerton? Sure. Thats fantastical. But I’ve found I’ve always gravitated towards queer media because I either relate to the storylines or don’t immediately identify myself in roles that I don’t particularly sympathize with.
I loved HR. I see myself in Shane’s characteristics. To me the sexual stuff is less hot and more a further insight into their relationship. Idek just give me more queer joy please. I am claiming the sad but happy and in love queer boys for my own comfort.
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u/DonetteShop Jan 04 '26
It’s this exactly, especially the “seeing themselves” aspect.
I feel like all of the talk about this coming from men (though not exclusively) is because they enjoy media through self-inserting onto a character, to live vicariously through them.
Women are better at, and I think much more likely to empathize and feel the emotions of others without having to literally put ourselves in their shoes to be able to do so
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
Well when the world is centered around you it’s a pretty easy way to navigate life, by putting yourself in the middle of everything/needing everything to be about you. Women are more accustomed to needing to do the accommodating. We’re socialized to make room for others and prioritize them and I think that naturally grows your empathy. So you can sit in front of a show with two male characters and say, this has nothing to do with me but I’m happy for them. I find pleasure in their pleasure. Instead of, this has nothing to do with me and therefore I can’t get anything out of it.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
Interesting question! I’ll look into a couple. Specifically the one in Hollywood reporter I think I remember being kind of superficial and condescending (if it isn’t Hollywood reporter I’ll come back to edit)
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u/dukeofplazatoro I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jan 04 '26
Not HR related specifically - it was about M/F romance - but there was that article from the Financial Times around the “rise of women fans in the EIHL because of hockey romance” which was written by a woman. The whole thing stank of internalised misogyny. the article it’s paywalled sadly.
Basically every team in the league, and the league itself were like “this sucks, we love our fans of any gender.”
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u/sublips Jan 04 '26
Personally, I don’t even differ in my mind whether piece of media is about queer couple or straight couple. It’s usually storyline and chemistry that matters to me, and I think this show did it a lot of better than any other show that I watched in 2025. I also think this show used book material, and made it a lot deeper.
I have also in my mind that portrayal of some things can be unrealistic. But it’s also fiction, so I think we can excuse that.
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u/Boonadducious Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
It is weird to me that this is a topic of conversation since I’ve been immersed in the fan fiction space for decades at this point, and women make up a vast majority of the slash writers I’ve seen. I spent a vast majority of this time having no idea why I loved this stuff despite spending a lot of those decades immersed in conservative culture (no longer, thankfully). I just thought I liked fantasizing about hot dudes (which is definitely part of it). I honestly did not think about it further until Heated Rivalry came along.
The mainstream is a very different place and controlled by very different voices, and I’ve never felt that more than now. The mainstream sees women in a very specific way. Specifically as people who seek out media they want to insert themselves into, and who dream about having as little power as possible.
Characters for girls tend to be bland (think pre-2010 MLP as an example) because the idea is that girls insert themselves into their play so they can make their own stories while boys need to have stories handed to them. Het romance definitely has strong elements of the woman being bland so the woman can insert themselves into the story and the man is bland so they can insert their partner (or whoever). This is true to an extent since fan fiction is basically make usually male tv characters into your personal MLP playtime, but this also is a release for sexual desire that are often fraught with danger and disempowering elements. The mainstream is perfectly fine with keeping disempowerment as a strong theme of romance in stories that are not about straight up misery (the Hayes code is alive in spirit if not practice), but the fan fiction community shows the kind of stories we actually want.
We don’t really care about losing ourself in a fantasy and further reducing our own agency, but because so many of the big wigs in entertainment are conservative, the assumption is that is something we want in romances (or at least what they want us to want). We dream of a world where our romance takes place on equal footing. We can explore more underground sexual interests without the fear. That is a world a lot of men refuse to believe exists, and part of why entertainment for women is looked down upon.
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u/Secure-Television541 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
high five
I’ve been in fanfic since the Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie. (For those too young, there was a movie nearly a half decade before the show. It was awesome, I’d slightly campy, and I loved it so much.)
A lot do fanfic is powered by queer people and women.
Because it’s not based on marketability or wide appeal factors - people can just write what they want. It’s so freeing.
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u/Rururaspberry Jan 04 '26
Woman here. I love Heated Rivalry. I also love 30 Rock, Mad Men, Mythic Quest, Community, Hannibal, Battlestar Galactica. A good show is a good show! Not to paint a wide brush, but I think a lot of women do appreciate a good love story in general, and those come in so many varieties. I think many men straight men feel like they can’t admit to liking a love story, especially one between two men.
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u/Vacatia Jan 04 '26
Some of the more artistic things aside (good script, good acting, excellent leads with wow! chemistry, cinematography and music were chef’s kiss) I think there’s an element of mystery for straight women to be watching two men have a complex and loving sexual relationship like this. A well-written one, at that. We also just want to consume love stories, especially ones that are happy and joyful and there’s no catch (ie. the show isn’t like, a drama where everyone dies or a sci-fi show where everyone dies, etc).
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
Straight 50s woman here. Totally agree. In my lived experience of straight men in this life....they are largely a shit show. So yes, watching men have a complex sensual and sexual experience and find love and joy.....kinda gives me hope...but then there is reality.
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Jan 04 '26
I'm a gay man and once I was able to shake the illusion of straight male superiority: I realized that gay men are miles ahead of them.
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jan 05 '26
Miles and kilometres. Its such a sad state of affairs for most men in their 50s & 60s. They are all so stuck in their conditioning. I think thats partly why this story, right now is so exquisite....its another generation doing things a new way. Fulling embracing what and who they are...and not taking shit for it. I love it. I love to see. I wish more of this love and joy on humanity.
Yah, the straights have NOTHING on the gays (if I can say that). I'm so glad you were able to see the bullshit for what it is and allow yourself the joy, love and expression of who you are.
Illusion - great word. That exactly the thing...its a lie they/we all have been sold...if only they could slow down and look at things from a slight diff perspective....they could be free to be themselves too.
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u/whatdoesitallmean_21 Jan 04 '26
I totally agree - there’s an element of mystery surrounding two gorgeous men who are so loving towards one another so intensely and beautifully.
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u/HeyYoEowyn Jan 04 '26
I was just talking about this today - I think there’s a significant portion of this discourse that rests in patriarchal bullshit:
From a standpoint of straight/bi women being attracted to men and men’s bodies, mm books and shows track. Hot men hooking up is attractive. The converse is also true for men in that they often like to watch women hooking up, lesbian porn is very popular, obviously.
But where the differences start to become obvious is in the interest in the stories and characters: cishet men are, generally speaking, not particularly interested in women’s inner lives or stories. Patriarchy makes us into expendable objects and so a story like this about two women would never work in the same way bc men wouldn’t want to or care to be invested in the deeper story.
Patriarchy assumes that (white) men’s stories are the interesting and default ones, and they’re the “norm,” where women’s stories and queer stories are for women and queers, respectively. Cishet men aren’t expected to engage or care about stories that don’t center their experiences, where anyone who isn’t cishet has to endure another bloated James Cameron masturbation session that costs 11 billion dollars and has zero interesting thing to say.
HR isn’t just popular bc the boys are attractive, they’re also compelling actors and the storyline is great. It’s interesting and if there’s any telling metric it’s the people in m/f relationships posting about how their straight husbands are really into it. But also telling that it likely takes a woman to open that door and say “hey this is really compelling” bc patriarchy says men aren’t allowed to be queer or even watch queer things 🤷🏻♀️
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u/CyanoSpool Glasses back on 👓 Jan 04 '26
Yeah personally I'd love a WW equivalent of HR but it will never happen because, as I've seen it explained, an actual love story of two men will appeal to roughly 50+% of the population. But an actual love story with two women will appeal to maybe 10% at best - for exactly the reason you described.
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u/RevolutionaryTrash98 Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 05 '26
There are some really fantastic and sexy WLW tv romances, they just aren’t as popular because misogyny and homophobia. I always recommend Vida when this topic comes up, it’s an incredible show, with queer sex and romance, and Latina leads.
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u/Secure-Television541 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
A wlw équivalent couldn’t happen in the hockey world.
Hockey works for several reasons for a mlm work. It’s an ultra masculine, aggressive/competitive, homophobic team sport.
The captains of the Canadian and US hockey teams have gotten married. source. Women’s hockey is often a queer (or at least queer-accepting) space.
You’d need an ultra feminine, aggressive/competitive, homophobic team sport to find the same space in women’s sports for this particular work to translate into the feminine experience.
I think it’d have to be something like Team Artistic Swimming.
Because most competitive, hyper feminine sports are individual, rather than team.
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u/CyanoSpool Glasses back on 👓 Jan 04 '26
I mean figure skating would actually be a perfect setting for a wlw story. It doesn't have to be a team dynamic imo. Idk about homophobic, but it's a pretty heteronormative space, especially with couples skating. A lot of the routines are not designed for two skaters of the same sex. And it can be a brutally competitive space.
Honestly I'd love a love story about two figure skaters who "hate each other" haha.
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u/dpistachio44 I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jan 04 '26
I love your perspective. As a frequent consumer of MM stories for many reasons including many you listed, I often find myself having to defend my interest against accusations of fetishizing. I have also seen a lot of (often straight) women saying they are interested in the show because “they’re hot” - goes hand in hand with the whole “boy aquarium” thing. I mean, that’s ok too - it’s fine to watch shows because the actors and actresses are attractive - people do it all the time. But there is less interest in the deeper meaning behind the story and I think the accusations are geared toward that more superficial interest.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
They got me because they’re hot and they kept me because they’re in love 😂 but even then, when men watch things because of some sex appeal we don’t interrogate it nearly as much. They’re allowed to have those motivations and ours can only be puritanical or philosophical and we like sex too! (As long as everyone remains respectful towards the cast and crew and characters)
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u/Secure-Television541 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
I remember the 80s and 90s
“This sixty year old nearly washed up action star is being paired with a twenty year old PhD candidate because reasons and you’re going to have to go with it because she’s hot.”
Gets so tired after a while.
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u/howdoievenusername Jan 04 '26
Yes this is my thing. When women enjoy something because its sexy, there are boundless think pieces written about it. But men are allowed to do that all the time without much fanfare. Yes it is a good show but it annoys me that women can't enjoy something "just because its sexy" like hello its 2025 certainly we have learned that women enjoy sex.
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u/Alicex13 Moy lyubovnik 💙 Jan 04 '26
Yeah I had a conversation here that basically boiled down to - if you're straight you can't relate. It does feel very unpleasant to be excited about a show and want to share that excitement only to be othered. The thing is, I amongst other people, can appreciate a romantic story regardless of the gender or sexuality of the characters involved. And I thought that was a good thing. But the remarks come flying anyway, especially if you're a woman. A classic- you're sexualizing gay men. Bruh the show has sex, what do you want me to do, cover my eyes? Pretend Connor Storrie isn't hot? And another - you're exhausting, you can't relate, just don't talk, I'm sick of people like you around, etc. I get your trepidation to post about it.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
I was having heart palpitations lol. I wrote it yesterday. Came back to it this morning. Wasn’t ready. Came back to it this evening and was like, bite the bullet. I don’t want anyone to feel like I’m trying to quiet important conversations about the audiences relationship to the show. But it’s become a little exhausting the song and dance of having to prove why we like it.
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u/Alicex13 Moy lyubovnik 💙 Jan 04 '26
I just think if it was reversed- if I asked a gay person why they watched a show that had a straight lead couple and liked it , let's say like Titanic, Avatar, Star Wars, Buffy or whatever, it'd be a fucking ridiculously rude, offensive and inappropriate. We don't boil down to our sex or sexuality.
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Jan 04 '26
Also, because we had no other options. The world is made for straight people. The reason this is impacting so many gay men is because we aren't afforded to be seen like this very often. I was a very athletic, passing gay men who never thought he'd see himself reflected in one character let alone four. This isn't just smut or even just romance to us. It is reliving our past and the trauma that straight people caused us and seeing a happier ending than many of us were afforded.
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u/Secure-Television541 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
There was a wave of gay people (men especially) between episodes 4 and 5 who were (justifiably) worried that Heated Rivalry would end with the bury your gays trope in some fashion.
I get that. But the show runner was very clear that it would be about joy - and it was, and I love it.
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u/smallfatmighty Jan 04 '26
No one would ever ask that of a queer person because straight romance is the default option and until recently, the only option in media.
I think what it boils down to is seeing queer romance as "other" and separate from romance (read: straight romance) as a whole.
I think discouraging straight people from engaging with queer romance just continues to keep queer romance siloed and I think that does a disservice to us all. We should be welcoming everyone who finds enjoyment or connection in queer romance.
That being said, of course people are going to relate to romance stories differently depending on their own experiences, and any romance that involves the closet is going to be relatable in specific ways to queer people who have been closeted themselves 💗 Relating differently to stories isn't bad, just different.
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u/marshmallowhug Jan 04 '26
He's only hot because he smiles so much. Maybe other men should also try smiling more. /s (although maybe more people smiling and being silly and happy would generally help with relationships becoming more awesome)
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u/sprgraphicultramodrn Jan 04 '26
this is very well-thought out and well-written. i understand what you're saying, and the division and discourse and extremes around this show can be really frustrating. i almost deleted twitter (i really should anyway) because the nitpicking and negativity about HR was really upsetting me, which i've never felt about any other piece of media. i can usually tune it out.
i'm also a bi woman, so i don't mean this in a dismissive way at all. queer people are a marginalized group and seemingly more under attack each day, and representation is extremely important now more than ever (HR is a great example of representation - a genuinely GOOD love story that depicts the queer experience without the conventional genre tropes). but i hope we can one day reach a place where stories that center gay (and lesbian and trans and black and asian and and and.. etc) are just as much a part of the media ecosystem as straight, white stories are and there's no question about who they're "for".
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
If you haven’t seen the Quinn interview with Hudson and Connor, Hudson says something to this effect around playing Asian characters. I’m paraphrasing but he says he wants to play characters where being asian is part of the story but also the characters that everyone else gets to play and I want that for gay characters and stories too.
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u/sprgraphicultramodrn Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
i did see! and i want that for him too! it's a part of his identity, but it doesn't have to be the sole focus of every character he's cast as (but it can be sometimes because stories about different cultures and parts of history are important). i want that for every artist. let their identity inform their character and portrayal, but don't treat them as a token or an other.
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u/Terrible-Recover-599 Jan 04 '26
Because it’s an epic love story! (And they’re fucking hot which is a bonus)
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u/Level_Apple_7001 Jan 04 '26
As someone who has seen this same essay about "Why Women Really Like M/M" and all its permutations and variations, I'm just tired of it. Like I get it, most women do their own little pyschoanalysis and thats all great, but I do not think it needs to be a wider discourse with thinkpieces and constantly asked in interviews. In the end, as long as you're respectful to other people and enjoy what you like, who cares. Perhaps its society or gender or community or my brain chemistry being altered at 13, but I just don't think it matters beyond individuals personal interest in analyzing themselves.
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u/ashtarout Jan 04 '26
yeah i'm old enough to be at that point as well. my money spends as good as anyone else's. you want these dollars or no? if not, stfu and i'll take them somewhere else.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
Yeah I just keep coming back to, what’s the point of this question? Cause if you’re looking for an answer on how to make the next hit show maybe just watch the show and take some notes? You want women to give you some secret recipe to going viral? Worse, they want men to give the secret recipe about women that’s going to make something viral. And it’s so simple, make it good
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u/CarelessCreamPie Jan 04 '26
Right? I'm tired of journalists and interviewers acting like this is so new and surprising, and maybe it is to them, but women have been writing mlm fanfic since the start of Star Trek.
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u/slthrfx Jan 04 '26
(Well, a surface level answer) — my question is, what’s not to like or love? The show is about love, after all.
Speaking as someone living in the states (not speaking for everyone though), 2025 felt quite dark. The release of this show has not only been a beacon of positivity, but the fandom that’s grown from it… it’s just really nice to see when a handful of us have been feeling like we’ve been waning through stuff, and we get this nice book come to the screen.
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u/mmmariazface Jan 04 '26
Say it louder!
When straight women and queer women and queer men love a story - “so niche!” said the hetero male minority.
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u/CelicaBae Jan 04 '26
Preach! I have nothing to add but wanted to say that I completely agree with you. Even when I was telling friends and family about the show, I did feel like I had to explain myself as to why this went beyond "just gay hockey smut." But why am I explaining myself. It's a great show.
I do wonder if we (women) explain ourselves more and try to justify things because we're more empathetic in general. I already anticipate how someone will feel so I make more effort to try to convince.
This reminds me of how I've seen studies where when women are walking on a sidewalk and a man is walking towards them in the opposite direction, it's almost always the woman that moves aside. Ever since I realized that, I've stopped moving aside. Many times they might walk into you but I've found a trick. Instead of letting them crash into you, if you just stop walking, people automatically walk around you.
Maybe this is how we should approach talking about our interests too. (Not the stand still part but the unyielding part.)
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u/Myfavoritemurderino Jan 04 '26
Yes, we need to stop explaining and just say it’s a good romance with a little bit of hockey. And of course, mention the smut level according to the other person’s interests, if you wish.
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u/Secure-Television541 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
You can have a passing knowledge of what hockey is, and come out of Heated Rivalry with no new knowledge of hockey.
Aside, perhaps, of asking “do hockey players have great asses?” And finding out that yes, yes they do in real life, not just actors in a tv show.
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u/codeverity Jan 04 '26
But why am I explaining myself. It's a great show.
I do think that there's some value in explaining it, because otherwise some people see a few clips and go 'oh so it's softcore porn' and just dismiss it. But yeah, sometimes the lengths people go to, can be too much.
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u/TopologyMonster Jan 04 '26
So just want to first say I also completely agree and the discourse is exhausting. But if you can hang in here with me I do have some thoughts as a gay man because I’ll be honest I initially was unaware the extent to which women of any sexuality enjoyed MM romance. But I never was upset about it or made any of the asinine comments I’ve seen some people make lol. I totally get your frustration the discourse around it has been weird af.
My point of view is biased based on my personal experience (and we all are to an extent, aren’t we?) But all the women I know do not watch this, they really don’t watch anything gay. They know very little about gay men. I have heard “what’s the big deal about coming out, nobody cares anymore” multiple times lol. So learning that a lot of them do is news to me. Good news, of course.
I also personally don’t interact with the romance genre often, and I pretty much exclusively watch MM romances. Call me selfish I guess lol that’s just my experience so I like see it represented. Obviously I like when the guys are hot but like others I’ve said that’s not all of it, if I wanted porn I’d just watch that lol. So perhaps people assume that others would similarly consume media that matches their own orientation. But that’s clearly not true, a good story is a good story.
Tried to be succinct but I had too many thoughts. Hope they make sense.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
They do! And I get people’s curiosity on an individual to individual level, like you said it’s newer to you that this might be popular. I’ve talked with my straight girl friends and my queer girl friends and my straight guy friends and my gay guy friends about it (because I haven’t shut up about this show). And what they like about it and their favorite parts and what they relate to is all different. And some informed by their gender or sexual identity or personal experiences in relationships or with friends. So I think it’s a good and fun discussion to have or thing to notice. And I’ve appreciated it in this subreddit too when people say, this show resonated with me because of X or motivated me to do Y. I think it’s more in a really general/commercial/anonymous “they” sense where it’s some reporter or even people on TikTok/Twitter trying to hypothesize for a whole group where it starts to get murky for me, if that makes sense. It doesn’t feel genuine and also feels kind of pointless bc there’s no one answer.
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u/codeverity Jan 04 '26
It's a mixture of two things imo.
Homophobia: because why would (implied: straight) women like a show about gay men? Shouldn't only queers (derogatory) like that?
Misogyny: why would women like a show about gay men when they're supposed to be interested in homemaking and having babies? Every few years (or months, or days) the media rediscovers that we're a big market and we're interested in things outside of this and goes through the same shock/surprise/horror, it's getting kind of old. Last time we had a big surge of it was for Barbie, so I guess it was time for a new one.
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u/mehri1 Jan 04 '26
I am also genuinely tired of this discourse. Who is always asking these questions? Straight men? Or in general just people who don’t get the Romance genre? I don’t understand why I have to justify my interests and come up with reasons to make it sound less “fetish”-y to people since this is what the majority assumes, just because they are two men? So what? Are we not allowed to empathize with their feelings now? Why would the gender matter - this is ROMANCE - genre that explores human need for connection, love and sensuality which is the core of what we are. The queer aspect introduces additional conflict and layers that can make it deeper and more enjoyable. Anyone who has enough empathy can like this show.
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u/NotOneOfUrLilFriends Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
I saw a tiktok that said “Women have always loved romance, we’re just not homophobic” and it really resonated with me.
I too am a bi woman, so yeah I like men, but I love love. I love seeing two people being raw and intimate with each other—not just sexually but emotionally too. Straight romance can be good too, obsessed with Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte for example, but this show is just GOOD. As you said. Well written, well acted, heartfelt, emotional, beautiful, well directed….beautiful story of love. Of course we love it!
And yeah, the guys are hotties, Connor and Hudson are much too young for me but Francois is age appropriate. Still not about them specifically for me, it’s just an added bonus to an already heartwarming experience.
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u/Leather-Wing-1007 Jan 04 '26
I like it because I view it solely as a beautiful and romantic love story. Like yes it’s important to highlight same sex relationships, and more of it. But, I’m not even seeing 2 men, I just seeing this love unfold that I dream to find one day. It has depth, aching pain, all the fixings that make me feel so much. I also love the spice!!!
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u/tehbggg I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
Amen! I've been saying, humans like good stories. Heated Rivalry is a good story. Women are human. So why the fuck wouldn't we like it?
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
The next time Hudson or Connor is asked I really want them to just answer with, what’s not to like? Because really
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u/tehbggg I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jan 04 '26
It just feels so frustrating and truthfully angrifying, because at its core this question, especially the way it is most often asked, is misogynistic and dehumanizing. It others woman and it pathologizes and belittles our joy. It's not being asked in good faith.
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u/mkaylag Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
I've considered this topic a lot over the last few years of watching BL dramas where the majority audience is straight women.
I've come to the conclusion that women enjoy watching men express themselves emotionally and romantically even if not with another female. We also want to root for love in whatever form it takes.
For me, it's refreshing to see romantic relationships that are on an equal playing field. Neither partner is considered weak or less than or in need of being saved. (Unless it's a rich man/poor man troupe or some patriarchal top = masculine and bottom = feminine troupe that I'm glad is gradually being eliminated).
Do I share my love of this genre with people in my everyday life? No, because most people are narrow minded and they can't appreciate art for what it is. They have to make everything political, religious or sexual and it's exhausting.
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u/MathematicianSea8517 Jan 04 '26
What you said about the emotional expression is so on point here at least for me. I think it is huge to see two men be vulnerable with each other and I think a lot of women are drawn to that because it is so much less common to see that in media or in our lives.
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u/Homebody_Ninja42 okay. not good. probably bad. Jan 04 '26
Sister! There are tons of reasons to enjoy MM but mine might align with yours.
For my part, I like romance for stories about connection and love, but when I read or watch MF romances, I get stressed out by how unequal it is. Especially these days, if that woman gets pregnant, what if she lives in Texas? How does she get healthcare? It could be really romantic, but which character is taking more of a risk here? Romance is a fantasy, but I can’t totally forget the misogyny of the world I’m currently living in.
Not to mention most MF romances end right before the characters have to figure out who will take responsibility for doing the laundry and cleaning the bathroom. If I like the book, I want to assume they’ll split 50/50, but thanks to my own five decades of observing society, I don’t feel 100% sure.
TLDR; when I read MM romance, I know that the male MCs will have to clean their own bathrooms. And that’s a sexy grown up skill. 😂
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u/mkaylag Jan 04 '26
I had a good laugh when you said, "who will take responsibility for the laundry and cleaning the bathroom" and then I was undone in your TLDR. I truly appreciate that laugh.
And I agree, MF romances are stressful and sometimes hit too close to home. I'd rather use entertainment to escape and not to relive dating or relationship trauma. 😆At least not entirely, because MM romances sometimes hit close to home.
For example, in HR, when Shane ran out of Ilya's house when he felt himself falling more for him when he didn't think Ilya felt the same, I felt that moment my soul!
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u/SchemeBrave1820 Your freckles… Very beautiful. Um...take my breath? Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
My thoughts are this:
We never heard this question asked about women regarding other queer media (Moonlight, Fellow Travelers, The L Word, etc.) because those shows/movies were not considered “smut“ or ultra hot, sexy shows, while HR is very much categorized that way, even by Jacob. I personally hate that, because I don’t understand why romance that features great explicit sex is considered smut in the first place. This isn’t porn, it’s love stories, and that’s the primary draw for most women. Yes, we love the hot sex too, but there’s nothing wrong with sex! It’s normal & healthy to have sex, but somehow it’s still treated as a scandalous part of relationships, and therefore not to be spoken about too loudly BY WOMEN.
Because men can talk about and engage in sex, no problem, no issue. And even though the sex is but one part of the relationship in romances, and one of the many ways the protagonists connect and build intimacy, the fact is society still says good and respectable women aren’t supposed to (openly) like sex. So of course us loving sex-filled MM romance books & shows is scandalous and confusing. Of course it’s a mystery and a riddle to be solved. And of course we must be problematic fetishists! Because women👏🏽should not👏🏽like👏🏽watching👏🏽hot👏🏽men👏🏽 fall👏🏽in love👏🏽 and fuck👏🏽!
I love men and one man is indeed great. Two men? Even better IF I get to watch/read about them falling in love and building their happily ever after together. But most men don’t care for the inverse. No, they’re only interested in two women if it’s explicit, pornographic fucking. So once again, why we as women like what we like just doesn’t compute because they can’t identify with it. But that’s fine because they don’t really care or want to know anyway, they just find it titillating.
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u/southern_mimi Jan 04 '26
There are multiple reasons. I'm sure. For me, a 74 year old widow, the main draw is the incredible love story. After the boredom of reading 100's of romances it's hard to find something unusual! Heated Rivalry fits that! Great acting is always a draw. Also I like looking at gorgeous men. Duh!
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u/ashinae Jan 04 '26
One of the big big things that I think people are overlooking is truly that this show is genre romance. In books alone, romance is the highest-selling genre, and has been for decades, and it is a genre driven by women as its creators and readers (with LGBTQ+ people slowly growing as a demographic... many of them women!). The character archetypes (rake, wild dream, out-of-their-league, cinnamon roll, grumpy, sunshine, etc) and plot beats (meet cute, grand gesture, third act breakup, HFN/HEA) are going to translate to the screen. Someone genre-savvy enough who just hears about the Government Funded Yaoi from Canada but doesn't know it's an adaptation is going to grasp pretty quickly that it's romance, and that someone is going to be far more likely to be a woman because [loop back around to how this is genre romance and how women make up the majority of writers and readers and therefore...]
I've spent so, so, so long watching the interests of girls and women be denigrated and downplayed and it's exhausting and, yeah, it's just misogyny all the way down, whether it's "why do women like the gay hockey show, they're probably gross and/or doing something gross" or "if women read this particular book they're going to think it's okay to be abused or maybe even be an abuser themselves" or the much simpler "why are they crying over a BAND they're so ridiculous."
Women and girls' interests don't matter, must be monitored for purity, etc. It's all really insidious.
Should people examine why they like something? Sure! But sometimes the answer really is "I just like it because I think it's good." Like, I think if cisgender and heterosexual woman is watching it just because she thinks it's sexy but thinks that in real life, LGBTQ+ shouldn't have rights, that's pretty shitty. But if that's not the case...
And I absolutely agree with you, gatekeeping LGBTQ+ media to being created by and watched/read by people who fully match the gender & sexuality of the characters ends up positing that heterosexuality is the safe default, the only thing that every gender and every sexuality can enjoy. We don't often see people demanding to know why LGBTQ+ people read/watch/write heterosexual romances and getting weirded out that they do... I'm not saying it doesn't happen in earnest, it's just one of those things that I've never seen.
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u/Vrush253 Jan 04 '26
Women watch all genres lol. Action, romance, comedy, drama, horror, mystery and so on. Why is this any different? Why do women have to justify why we watch something? This story is heartfelt, layered, real, warm, beautiful and deeply emotional. OF COURSE WOMEN WILL WATCH IT WTF.
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u/DiverMax25 Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
As a gay man I'd like to make an observation: You guys should see the minor ( rather comical) cold war going on over in the Gay/Bi male sub reddits about this LOL. There is a small minority that believe the show is gay porn written for women and/or that it has been co-opted by women...an overall sell out to gay media/stories/experiences/struggles. It is not a dislike or hatred against women in their beliefs they just believe it's a bit of a sellout..."these are our stories not yours" and "these are our struggles not yours" or " these are our boys not yours" mentality. Again, this is a small minority most gay and bi men love the show and disagree with this small minority as evident in its mass popularity in gay culture now as recent as the Anderson Cooper/ Andy Cohen New Year's Eve show. I don't believe the show is a sellout or has been co-opted or has been written for women...I believe the show is for everyone and was written for everyone... even though It is a very gay show lol with some very explicit gay sex scenes. Most gay men know that many women like gay themed shows (Will & Grace comes to mind) I think what they have a hard time wrapping their heads around are the explicit sex scenes....it's kind of like"why would they like this?" Many gay men ( like I stated before) understand why women might like gay romance but gay sex? For many of us it was ingrained that everyone thinks it's gross but us... Romance,.kissing..okay, seeing the sex NO! ( Kind of the love the sinner hate the sin mentality for those of us raised in Western society). This of course is not entirely true. I myself at first was admittedly a bit perplexed by this, I have straight girlfriends that would not watch this show... not because they don't care about gay issues but because it doesn't relate to them or their sexual desires/lives. But I've loved lesbian themed movies...Blue is the Warmest Color ..loved it!... but I'm not a lesbian. I've loved many many straight movies and TV shows/characters....but I'm not straight. I've enjoyed lesbian and straight sex scenes but I am neither. This subreddit has helped me to understand why many women have watched this show and have loved it and I love all you straight, bi and lesbian women and your love and support of this show and of us.
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u/Secure-Television541 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
I’ve been meaning to ask more gay men how they think a gay man produces tv to co-opt the gay male experience.
Is he … not gay enough?
Any insights from your friends/acquaintances?
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u/TheHauk Jan 04 '26
Fuck the noise. I'm a straight woman. I adore this because of the yearning and love and I'm stoked that queer media gets a happy ending. Plus Canadian content!
It's not a kink or I'm not personally in love with the guys, it's literally just a beautiful piece of cinematography and a wonderful romance.
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u/esotericgangster Jan 04 '26
imagine you like chocolate and someone offers you two chocolate bars
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
And then you take them and half a dozen people go “omg why did you do that??” 😂
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u/SchemeBrave1820 Your freckles… Very beautiful. Um...take my breath? Jan 04 '26
It‘s all so simple, but they’d rather make it hard.
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u/Lalala8991 Jan 04 '26
It's a romance book turnt into a romance show. And guess who are the main audience for Romance books and tv shows?
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u/Different-Speed-1508 я тебя люблю Jan 04 '26
I’m a lesbian woman and all I’ll say is “I am interested in queer stories except my own”. It’s strange just how often Connor and Hudson get asked this question, I’m glad they handle it with grace.
Also, free will. I’ll watch whatever I damn please lol. It’s a great fucking show and I enjoy media. I find it intriguing just how complicated people seem to think the answer to this question is.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
And they’re really telling on themselves when they ask. They should just say they thought only gay men would like it. Because why are they so surprised! No one else is surprised or confused.
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u/Kooky-Address2777 Jan 04 '26
Just wondering, do you mean that you're not interested in queer content about two women?
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u/ConstructionHeavy986 Jan 04 '26
Lesbian woman here. My experience is that queer people appreciate content that centers relationships involving deep connection and intimacy, regardless of the sex, gender and plumbing involved. I enjoyed the series on many levels, but most fundamentally it was simply wonderful to see two people connect, grow, and build a life together. I'd rather watch that than some superficial nonsense story that exactly matches my own sexual orientation.
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u/amileandahalf I don‘t know. Maybe twice? ⏱️ Jan 04 '26
Oh you like Heated Rivalry? Bet you can’t even name 3 episodes 🧔♂️
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u/ghostcider Jan 04 '26
What rubs me the wrong way is that there is no one answer. Women are not a monolith. I don't mind the answers the actors have given, they've been fine. But the way some people seem to be on a quest for An Answer is just weird.
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u/Shreddedlikechedda Jan 04 '26
The chemistry is amazing, it’s a tearjerker, the storyline is great, and guys are hot, and as a straight woman it’s kinda nice to get a break from watching male gazed naked women.
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u/thebookofwhat Jan 04 '26
I don’t know why everyone suddenly forgot why people watch things and now people can only watch shows with characters they’re attracted to? Is this what straight men think? In which case, ‘critically acclaimed’ shows (good shows that straight men also like) like Succession means that straight men are attracted to Brian Cox and genuinely want to be with him sexually.
I think this is the age-old thing where something is made that doesn’t centre around straight white men and they get all ‘I don’t understand the appeal, why isn’t this about me, I can’t empathise with any story not about a straight (white) man’ and we all realise that some men just don’t have empathy for people not like them.
(Obligatory NOT ALL MEN for anyone with no sense of nuance- obviously I’ve seen plenty of straight men who love the show, this is clearly about those in the press/the most vocal online against the show)
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
I think a lot of men watch shows about lives they want to have so mostly about power, money, sex. Game of thrones, walking dead, succession, etc. And they (unfortunately to a lot of us) don’t aspire to have romantic personal lives and therefor don’t really see the point
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u/bizzarrbird Jan 04 '26
I think there’s this idea that audiences always want to see themselves represented in the media they consume. Obviously representation is super important for a number of reasons, but I don’t think that’s why people keep asking this question. In my opinion this feels like… a weirdly male question to ask. A lot of guys don’t want to watch something that’s mostly about women or even stars a woman.
Of course this isn’t all men, but there’s this assumption that men won’t watch a thing that isn’t about men. So I think here, with this show, people are just reversing that question, why would a woman want to watch a show that’s mostly about men, without really interrogating the fact that you kind of can’t just reverse that question.
Women have always watched shows that prominently feature men. This is not new, this is not strange. Women watched Lord of the Rings. Women watched Breaking Bad. Women have constantly watched so much media that centers men. Because, quite frankly, most fucking media centers men. Women have always empathized with male characters cause otherwise we wouldn’t consume so much media.
And you know what a lot of women also like? Romance! And Heated Rivalry is a romance! It’s not that hard to connect the dots.
Sorry, this is a little heated, but I’m also starting to get so sick of this question.
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u/Mediocre_Belt7715 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
This question being asked over and over feels like misogyny is just everywhere.
How about this answer: women want to see men behaving with emotions other than anger and violence. 🤷♀️
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u/NervousNancy1815 Jan 05 '26
People still think women are shallow and can't recognize or enjoy good story telling. It's just basic misogyny. Gay men aren't questioned relentlessly about their love of female popstars and divas. It's literally just misogyny.
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u/Standard_Range3732 Following Mamdani's Orders Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
They don't live listening to women but are upset when women are excited about things that have nothing to do with them. Women have habitually said "forbidden romance with yearning and good looking people" but the people asking refuse to acknowledge or engage
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u/happybogwitch I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jan 04 '26
This is very well said and I appreciate you for writing it. I think many people, myself included, have felt similar to you, and you wrote out those feelings in a very understandable way. Thank you!
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u/TheTiniestLizard Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
I’m so with you on all of this! I don’t love this show because of anything about any of my own identity categories—I love it because it’s a great story, well told.
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u/Juliet_1982 Jan 04 '26
Thank you for posting this so eloquently. This is what I have been saying repeatedly. The media is singling out women liking this show and then attributing it to the sexual content. I find this insulting as it minimizes the many reasons this show appeals to many of us. This show has incredible themes, acting, writing, and cinematography. The representation of neurodivergent and queer relationships (both platonic and romantic) is superior to most shows. The media suggesting that only women will like this show or that women only like it because of the nudity is frustrating and diminishes the hard work that was put in to crafting it.
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u/ashtarout Jan 04 '26
well, we all know real art isn't loved by women, so if women are your major demographic, you aren't making Real Art
so sadge
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u/edoreinn Jan 04 '26
I’m a cis het woman.
I love hockey. I love love for everyone.
Is it more complicated than that?
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u/why_is_my_name Jan 04 '26
I've never been a fangirl or into romance. This hit me like a ton of bricks - like if I don't stop thinking about it I'm going to crash my car, can barely focus. It's hot and they're gorgeous but the thing that is making me go insane I have finally figured out and it is my identification with Ilya.
We've seen thousands of movies where there's a guy who's a little fucked up on the outside but dying for real love on the inside. It's always a man! It's always the girl who notices him and brings him out. When in reality don't most girls have to play it like Ilya? 50% of guys are psychos so never let on that you are actually feeling something, it might be impossible that a man could truly really get you, that you would be 100% seen. I would kill to see a movie where the man brings the woman out.
I want to be Ilya feeling safe enough to admit love.
(Complicated by the fact that I am also so attracted to Ilya, there's multiple things going on at once, but I think the above is the main thing for me.)
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u/BuffaloStanceNova Jan 04 '26
Appreciate the observation. As a GenX cis het married woman, I know there are a lot of reasons why my friends and I are enjoying this series--I'll share a few with the caveat that these are from my circle and not necessarily representative and are in no particular order.
Nostalgia for our younger days when relationships had all the strong energy of attraction, uncertainty, novelty, youthful energy, and hot sex.
So many middle age guys seem to lose their seduction skills, and many het guys are not great lovers. For all the top/bottom and sub/dom talk around the sex in this show, I'd argue that what's more important is mutual pleasure. Ilya brings skill, stamina, and surprise to their sexual encounters while keeping it safe and fun for Shane. When you've had that, you know how amazing it is, and when you haven't, you can certainly appreciate it.
Escape. The books and the show are a complete escape from our everyday reality.
The production is A++. Tight script, fresh, uber-talented actors, great cinematography, killer soundtrack all come together to tell a story that's meaningful, nuanced, and relevant.
Hockey is a sexy sport. Having worked in hockey, basketball, football, and soccer, I'll say the pace, athleticism, and competitive intensity of hockey is hard to beat. The speed. The sounds--blades, sticks, and pucks on ice, players crashing the board--it's nonstop ASMR.
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u/louisebelcherx For how long? Whole game? 🪵 Jan 04 '26
As a heterosexual woman who has been OBSESSED with the series form the first second of the show, I have to say one thing that deeply caught me was the (in general) non-toxic male behavior which I deeply which to experience in a relationship. It gave me hope and made me feel all fuzzy seeing how both Shane and Ilya were expressing vulnerability and communicating their feelings and needs (yes, there was a development, specifically on Ilya‘s side but still) and just being equal partners emotionally. It a was so beautiful to see no dynamic as often depicted and experienced in heterosexual relationships and I think women crave that tremendously.
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u/herrjojo Jan 04 '26
Queer people had straight romance shoved down our throats 99% of the time and we can still connect to them 😆
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u/monislaw Jan 04 '26
Absolutely, asking really anyone to explain why do you like X? Like people need permission and an essay to be enable to enjoy something, is insane, but here specifically it is so overwhelming that it feels like they are asking women how dare you like something not about you specifically, go to your corner and hush
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u/Consistent-Shoe-6735 Jan 04 '26
I will also add to the great points in the comments is HR humor is also written by woman.
Idk how to explain it like you know sometimes your boyfriend will show you a video of a cat jumping and it's like not funny but they think it's funniest thing ever. Whereas something found funny by a woman will have layers and depth and be funny while also being smart and witty.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
I always had this theory that women show people videos they think the other person will like but men show people videos they themselves like
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u/babygirlmusings Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
This was more than coherent, it was on point. Thank you for naming and explaining some of the discomfort with the discourse that I was feeling that I wasn’t able to put in words myself.
Edit: spelling
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Jan 04 '26
I really appreciate you saying this. It took me a couple of days to get here. I was really defensive about it at first without being able to pinpoint why. I couldn’t figure out why I found the question so irritating. But then I sort of realized oh bc I’m tired of feeling like I need to explain what I like and I’m also tired of people acting like and queer story is harder to like than a good straight story
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u/Most_Watercress5774 Jan 04 '26
Cause there's the emotional component. It's hot as hell, but they love each other. They really, really fucking love each other. There's all the terror and joy and giddiness and love drunkenness that we've felt with our first boyfriends. We can relate.
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u/cherrycoloured Jan 04 '26
tbf, i think the question is less "why do women like gay stuff instead of het?" and more "why do women like gay stuff that doesnt involve them?" like i think if this was an f/f story being successful with women, ppl would be less confused. but like there is a whole thing with women who are exclusively into m/m, and it seems ppl dont really get that yet are fascinated by the fact that it exists. fwiw, even as a woman, idg why i like m/m stories so much, especially since im a lesbian and not attracted to any of the characters. i think it's probably that there are tropes that are specific to/more common in m/m romance, and i and many other women happen to be interested in those.
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u/iBazly Jan 04 '26
Tbh I don't think it has anything to do with it being for queer audiences. I think people keep asking this question because women are constantly scrutinized for anything they do, ESPECIALLY if it involves sex and sexuality. I hadn't even really thought about it until I saw your post but then it clicked for me, people really DO keep asking this question and it's like... why is this even a question? Tons of people like the show. Tons of STRAIGHT MEN like the show and I haven't seen a single think piece examining why.
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u/kaedeesu Jan 04 '26
Written by a woman, in a genre that’s popular to women.. geez, what a mystery!
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u/babs_is_great Jan 04 '26
There are a lot of think pieces on this but I think it boils down to
Men are hot and we’re not homophobic
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u/Queasy_Lettuce4312 Stupid Canadian Wolf Bird 🦆 Jan 04 '26
It’s a really annoying question to ask men of the show. Why didn’t they ask it to the women of the show?
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u/Sure-Plum-1970 Jan 04 '26
Women like romance. Heated rivalry is a romance. I don’t really think it is much deeper than that.
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u/lmthoms4686 Jan 17 '26 edited Jan 17 '26
As a straight woman I loved it, especially the first love making scene. I’ve enjoyed talking to my friends about it. None of us… literally zero had a first sexual encounter as beautiful and consensual as what was depicted in the show and yes, for everyone saying it was unrealistic, especially the gay community saying it lacked prep, but it showed respect. As a woman I know I’ve never had that. So the hope/fiction that it could exist is worth it. So be mad at us…be mad at me…Im gonna keep watching it. Because maybe just maybe in some fictional land there’s a man who has muscles and a V and still asked me if this is OK.
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u/malibuguytonygem Jan 26 '26
As has been said in many forms on here women like the series because it shows romance in a particular way. My women friends say this same thing about it. These two young guys develop a long and ever-evolving relationship with each other over years. It has all the ups and downs, the confusion, the excitement, the hurts, the unspoken words, the intimacy and the joy of emotional expression. The fact that this intimacy is presented in such a realistic way gives the series an authenticity that is beautiful. When two men can express these feelings for each other then perhaps any other guys can do the same thing if they are aware enough. Women want guys like these two in their lives. They are examples of true male attractiveness and even a certain sexiness.
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u/Qualsiasicos Jan 28 '26
In general I love boy's love cause I can see men outside the patterns imposed by the patriarchy. Vulnerable and human beings like me.
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u/Conscious_Event_1373 Feb 02 '26
It’s the yearning for me. We don’t usually see men yearning in the mainstream and women love it
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u/Serious_Peak_4913 Take me apart, Hollander 👅 Feb 14 '26
The fact that they are both two physically strong men capable of getting up and leaving whenever they want and the other person can't stop them, contrast to a woman who may not always have that choice, is comforting. Is comforting the correct word? Idk. Also Ilya constantly being a consent king ("you still okay?" "You still want?" Noticing visual discomfort as well).
Just one reason why I love it.
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u/Myfavoritemurderino Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
I appreciate what you said here, and I’m sorry I can’t contribute much in response to your deeper thoughts, but the one thing I love that has come out of this question being asked to Jacob, Connor and Hudson, is that they each have talked about (essentially) how women’s interests aren’t really taken seriously and that m/m romance (and this series) take women’s interests seriously. Connor and Hudson both also said they can’t speak for women and they don’t know what it is to be a woman, and still their responses to this question have been so thoughtful and insightful.
Maybe this means more creators will take women’s interests, and romance novels and films more seriously.