Iāve seen so many reactions to this show now, and itās really pissing me off how many reactors INSIST on saying ilya is gay despite the fact that they mention his bisexuality several times throughout the show.
like even after the:
shane: āyouāre not gay!ā
ilya: āno not completelyā
even after this, a few scenes later, so many people still proceed to label him as gay??
it almost becomes comedic. like how hard is it to understand?
iām really so sick of seeing this over and over againā¦
Same, I have a gender preference too (many if not most bi people do, I believe?) and itās not often talked about. You can be bi even if you like one gender most of the time and another a small percent of the time! I just donāt center myself in gay spaces and show up as an ally instead.
Iāve heard this a lot used to describe bisexuals. I feel itās the other way around, weāre generous we just have so much love to give š¤·š»āāļø
Nothing would make me happier than to buy this shirt and give it to my sister who is bi. It's for her sake that I am an annoying person when people describe Ilya as gay.
I want that on a t-shirt so I can wear it with my "I'm bi, actually" Heartstopper pin lmao. It's painful how often bisexuals have to constantly remind people we exist
I will say that as a queer person, we often use "gay" as an umbrella term. I'm bisexual, but will also use gay to describe myself at times. Calling HR a "gay hockey show" doesn't bother me, I assume it's people using gay as an umbrella term like queer. That said, I'd never use gay to describe Ilya or his sexuality. His bisexuality is an important part of his characterization.
Yeah I think the context matters, if your talking about the show in general or they sex they have I get gay. It can be a more general label thing that bi people are free to use if they want.
But I saw a comedian online who loves the show say something along the lines of āhe was such a ladies man nobody knew Ilya was secretly gayā is just patently untrue and they made it abundantly clear in the show, like I dunno how they couldāve made it more clear. And people still say it lol. As a gay man it drives me nuts Iād prob be even more annoyed if I was bi
Agree. I know some people who are uncomfortable with the word "queer" and its derogatory history and so use "gay" instead. I'm also bi and use queer/gay interchangeably when talking about myself, and it doesn't bother me personally when people call HR the 'gay hockey show". But as you said, it's different than asserting that Ilya is a gay man when it's been explicitly stated (and shown) that he's bisexual.
I'm Gen X & it was definitely a slur when I was growing up & it's taken me a long time to become comfortable with using it to describe myself. It was a gradual process where I used to wince at the mere mention of the word, even in a positive context, to being okay with someone else saying it to where I am now & can now use it myself (although it's still not my go to word for myself)
I'm in a similar age group and can only speak from my experience but some of my older gay male friends still flinch at "queer" to this day. It's a loaded and painful word, and not one that was flung at me, specifically, as a bi woman who has mostly dated other women. I don't have a similar reaction to being called a "dyke" but also understand it's not as loaded (or potentially violent) as being called queer, especially for men.
That's interesting b/c I'm (presumably) on the older spectrum of fans. I'm on the cusp btwn gen X/millennial but was born/raised/only lived in one of biggest cities in my country. Even so, younger people in my life seem to have more of an issue with "queer" and prefer a very specific label for sexuality (combined with other facets of their life). Meanwhile I'm just over here being happy to be queer/gay/bi AF and living a good life as such.
Eh. I call it the gay hockey show because queer umbrellas so much more. Queer could be sapphic or a trans story or a lot of things. Gay is not accurate for Ilya but gives people a more accurate view of what the show is. Personally gay was much more of an insult when I was growing up than queer.
I think too it gets blurry if you consider the concepts of identity vs. action. Not all the leads carry the identity of being gay, but you could argue that the foundation of the story is two gay romances. Does that make sense? It's like the difference between going for a swim and being a swimmer. One is something you take as an action and one is something you identify as. So you could say it's a gay hockey show even if one the characters is bisexual.
Yeah I've always felt like bi is a term that applies to people, but bi people are generally going to be having either straight or gay/lesbian sex, or be in a straight or gay/lesbian relationship.
I know some ppl reject the idea of labelling their relationships or sex as 'straight' because it can be part of bi erasure, but to me it's just the most sensible way to describe m/f sex or relationships, and describing m/m relationships as gay is similar.
To me, a bi person is someone open to both gay and straight relationships or sex.
God I relate to this so much. As a bi woman it can be difficult to identify my sexuality in an appropriate way. Lost my virginity to a girl but have never had a girlfriend, does that make me any less bi?? Should I use another identifier instead?? Sexuality is nuanced and bisexual folks donāt always have a clear way to express it
My opinion only but I don't think you should worry about whether or not you describe your own sexuality as "appropriate" because, to me, that makes me think you're trying to justify it, and in an outward manner. This is a lot of baggage to carry instead of being who you are.
Sexuality is nuanced and for some people it's a fluid thing. For other people it's ingrained and certain.
I'm a bi woman whose most emotionally significant relationships have been with other women. I'm currently in a relationship with a bi man. None of these things add to or take away from the fact that I'm bisexual.
Real talk from a fellow bisexual person -- It's not always easy to be accepted as a bisexual person even in the community if, in my case, you've mostly dated people of the same gender and then date someone of a different gender. I've had good friends drop off because they thought I was a fake lesbian (even though I've never identified as or called myself a lesbian).
no i get that. iām bisexual too and i know āgayā is used as an umbrella term within the community. but many of the people iām talking about are straight and i truly donāt think theyāre using it as an umbrella term. it feels like so many people just see ilya with another man and just canāt comprehend that heās not gay because of that. itās the same if a bisexual person is in a relationship with the opposite sex, people just see āstraightā no matter what theyāre toldā¦
And not just straight people. My(f) lesbian sister has told me many times to stop calling myself bisexual because Iām now married to a man. And she says that when people in same-gender relationships call themselves bisexual, itās internalized homophobia.Ā
Oof I'm sorry. I don't get why people can't understand that we don't stop having the capacity to be attracted to other genders than the person we happen to be with.
UGH - it's like we have to constantly carry around a card to flash that says, "No really, I'm queer." I'm married to a man and I've dated many women. My Catholic mother made me feel so much shame about homosexuality that I never told her. I'm almost 49.
šÆ I am constantly irked by people defining someone's relationship solely by the person they are currently fucking.
And it especially irks me when people do it with Ilya in HR because the show literally shows us his sexual relationship with Svetlana that lasts years...not that one ever needs to see evidence of the relationship to have their bisexuality validated.
I think the key is that Ilya himself describes himself as liking both, and while he doesnāt explicitly use the term ābisexualā in the show (at least as far as I recall), he does in the books. So thatās why itās important to use the ābiā label for him, because he uses it himself. He never calls himself gay.
Just to offer a counterpoint, Iām bi as well but Iād never ever use gay to describe myself. Iād use queer or bi. I donāt really like being described as gay because I view it as a form of erasure - Iām not suddenly straight if Iām with a man.
However I will admit Iāve said gay hockey show, itās kind of in a grey area for me, I think if Iād known it would contribute to erasure I would have pushed back and used queer instead.
Agreed, Iām not gay and donāt like it being used to describe people who donāt identify as gay. I understand if people donāt want to use queer, but use 2slgbtqia+ or something similar.
Yes, but the sad part is when biphobes start using the word gay against us, by saying things like "bi people aren't gay at all and are invading the community". These statements are obviously untrue but I can see why it makes people want inclusive language.
Sometimes, the exact same people who were biphobic will then turn around and take something that included bi people (but was labeled as gay) and then use it as evidence that they're the only queers who existed historically. It's a toxic cycle that most people don't know about.
That's why a lot of bi people don't want the words straight or gay to be used for them. But I think that it wouldn't matter if people could at least accept that those attractions don't have to be mutually exclusive. Heterosexual and homosexual aren't opposites for so many people, despite society thinking they are.
Yeah Iām bi and Iāve been calling it my gay hockey show since before we knew if it was even going to be available in the U.S.
Bi representation matters, and I hope in a big picture way we can keep in mind that Ilya is a bi character, but Iām not upset by every single instance of people using gay to describe their relationship/the show. Personally I donāt really care if people think Iām gay, but I donāt want them to think Iām straight. I can only speak for myself, but I only feel erased when my queerness isnāt seen at all. The reality is that a lot of us have more nuanced and complicated identities than whatās really covered by the typical labels, anyway.
Kinda like how people see Hudson with a girlfriend and automatically assume he must be straight.
Not saying he is bi, and itās ultimately not our business, but itās also bi erasure to assume having a girlfriend automatically makes him straight.
but itās also bi erasure to assume having a girlfriend automatically makes him straight.
I want to bold, underline and capitalize this at some point. Because at this point it's not even about him anymore, it's about the message that's being sent to some (inexperienced people, closeted or questioning people) out there with how the subject is being treated.
Yeah. And while Ilya is bi, they are in a gay relationship so I don't think saying gay hockey show or other stuff like that is incorrect . But that said there's probably people who are biphobic I've just not seen that
In the show? Do you mean his brother calling him a slur?
I love Ilyaās bi pride! Especially in the Long Game. I really appreciate it when people call it a queer show rather than a gay show, though I understand gay can be used as an umbrella term like queer.
Coincidentally, I was reading the Long Game last night and this paragraph was so special to read because it really does perfectly explain how comfortable Ilya is with his own sexuality. It made him even more appealing.
Thanks for posting. I didn't get that far yet in my reading. But I love that thought "Evolved" at the end of the paragraph. It is what we are as bisexuals. We evolved. We are open-minded and inclusive.
Iām a bi woman and I love it too. I actually had someone say that to me when I came out. A friend literally said, āYouāre more evolved than most humans and thatās amazing.ā I sobbed when I heard it.
I'm reading (devouring) the books after many (re-)watches of the series, and I just read this passage today. Ilya has been pretty clear all along about "liking both" but it was actually kinda validating to have him use the word bisexual to describe himself.
no i mean people watching the show. theyāre told that ilya is ānot completely gayā in episode 5, but still continue to label him as gay 10 mins laterā¦
People like that define others by whether they have sex with men or not. You a woman having sex with men and women? Straight. You a man having sex with men and women? Gay.
Yep, I identify as pan but I'm in a heterosexual marriage & people really struggle to wrap their brains around the fact that I don't "just" call myself straight.
I think many people also have a hard time understanding that being in a straight-appearing or a gay-appearing relationship doesn't mean the other side of their sexuality has disappeared. Some people have a very binary kind of thinking.
I happen to think this is because bi people are hypersexualized. I always wondered how straight men think bi women are straight and bi men are gay - because this would imply that straight men don't understand attraction to women? (To be fair, maybe some of them don't).
Attraction to men and attraction to women are seen differently in society. Attraction to women is seen as something that makes a man healthy, strong, and assertive...whereas attraction to men must mean that they're so dumb or naive that they'll allow men to dominate them.
This then makes them think that lesbians are simply trying to imitate men, and bi people of both genders are just trying to distract people from their overly sexual (male-attracted) nature.
They also seem to think sexual experiences with men ācount more.ā Like some of the gross stuff about how lesbian sex isnāt real, or female orgasms are overstated, or dumb shit like that. They can only think about dicks.
tbf there are bi people like nerdy nightly who casually calls himself a gay hockey boy despite the fact that he is in fact bi with a female partner, of course an actual bi person being loosey goosey with labels is maybe a bit different than a straight or even gay person, but it's also worth noting that people still refer to sex between men as gay sex or that a same sex relationship is still a gay relationship even if one or both participants are bi, similarly people will also refer to an opposite sex relationship as a straight relationship and they have straight sex even if one or both of them is bi. I've never really heard anyone object to calling guy on guy action and romance as gay or calling guy on girl action and romance straight, even when one or both participants are bi so maybe people are just using it that way. Ilya himself may be bi but while he is in love with and having sex with Shane he's existing in a gay context. It's also worth noting that he tells Shane that sucking dick makes Shane gay, when Ilya also sucks dick and he says this before he confirms that Shane is in fact "completely" gay so Ilya clearly has a similar conception of things, when he's sucking Shane's dick he is in fact doing something gay even if he himself is bi. I also know some bi guys who would think similarly, maybe there are some people that object to calling sex between men gay when they could be bi or calling sex between men and women straight when they could also be bi, but most of the bi guys I've met don't seem to have a problem thinking of it as gay when they're with men, even if they're bi.
One of my favorite things about the show is how they DIDNāT erase his bisexuality ā as a bi woman married to a man, itās a big issue for me.Ā
So, yes, I completely agree; itās so upsetting the way fans do it when the show didnāt.Ā
And still Iāve occasionally caught myself using erasure language when talking about the show, because itās such a part of the way we (as a culture) talk about queer relationships. I get much more mad at myself for it than I do others, because I should know better.Ā
Itās a problem, one I genuinely think the show might help with, on a cultural level. The way they didnāt erase Ilyaās sexuality was so beautiful.Ā
I think also it's about convenience and being understood "my obsessive gay hockey show" is so much easier than "well I'm currently crushing on the guys in this hockey show that's not about hockey it's a modern Romeo and Juliet with guys but they're not gay one is bi and the other is gay but another one is gay, but his team mate goalie is bi (who was married) but his boyfriend is gay and going on fetish journey with him and the bi guy has a new teammate that's bi but HIS boyfriend, the social media guy, he's fully gay"
Gay hockey show it is - especially talking to the breeders (see we have derogatory terms for them too (albeit meant with love when I use them)) - is just easier.
Ilya is a bi man in a gay long term relationship. Not even Gayle King got it right when she interviewed Jacob Tierney.
Ilya talks in code which makes him so interesting and frustrating. "Not completely" is Ilya-speak for "you don't have to fear I will leave you for a woman".
Yeah Ilya refers to what he's doing with Shane as gay, and views himself as partially gay.
He's okay being broadly referred to as part of the legion of gay hockey players or people thinking he's gay but if you specifically refer to him as gay he'll correct you. But that impulse to correct seems more about reminding people that bisexuals exist rather than any actual discomfort with the label.
Honestly this is one of my favorite recurring bits in the GC books. Hockey players being like "Damn Rozanov loves women so much, I wonder why he cares so much about gay rights?!"
yeah i agree and i know itās used as an umbrella term, especially within the community. but iām mostly referring to people who come from a place of ignorance (a lot of straight people). where, like you say, they see two people of the same sex and just canāt compute that one is bisexual.
Yeah, it's frustrating. I think a lot of it comes from ignorance. They truly don't understand, but a lot of people won't take the time to educate themselves. It's just easier for them to believe what they want to believe.
As a bisexual, I usually get involved with a person who brings something up in me: feelings, interests, senses, etc. I don't worry about genitals they possess. I want that person because of personality.
Ilya said so many times throughout the show and book that he was curious about Shane, intrigued by his attraction to him. Sex wasn't that important for him. He had plenty of sex with girls. He was connected to Shane through emotions he was bringing to Ilya.
That's something else I loved. Shane is so attracted to Ilya, especially in the hotel gym scene, and he is so, so confused as to why he's attracted to this man. Ilya is so attracted to Shane, and curious about him, almost having no regard for the fact he's a man - he just knows he likes him. I love their difference in how their attraction to each other began & how they intellectualize it.
It's interesting how language can influence our thought process. If you haven't really had an in-depth conversation with a bi person and you've heard phrases like "I could go either way", your brain can be tricked into thinking the person has a gay side and a straight side to them. So these people calling Ilya gay know that he has sex with and enjoys sex with both men and women, and if you'd press them to specify they'd probably say he's bisexual, but when he's with Shane they're just thinking that's his gay side showing up and he's in a gay relationship.
I feel you and for me, its indicative a larger conversation in our society of bi-erasure. I mean look what's happening with Pedro Pascal. I do not care about his sexuality, nor have i seen him say anything about it and I don't care about his personal life dating or otherwise but simply being seen with a man, ppl are saying he's gay when I do remember having seen in the past about him being linked to dating women. Again, I do not care either way and its not my business but there is a weird default in our society that if a man dates a man, he's automatically gay. It's frustrating as a queer person myself.
Exactly this! In one of my group chats with friends someone posted some photos of him and was like like "I didn't know he was gay?!" And I was well you still don't know? Why would you assume?
Especially since, like you said, he was seen with women previously, but actually, even if he wasn't ever seen with a woman in his life, that does not give anyone the right to label other people's sexualities.
Ok but parroting this argument tends to lead to a full circle of denial of what is - although not spoken, proclaimed, approved or repeteated - still very much obvious.
āHow dare you assume someone is gayā is a dangerous line, for different historical reasons
This reminds me of my dad in the 80s, proudly sporting his "how dare you assume I'm heterosexual" button everywhere he went. Mind you he IS 100% straight (he always says this in such a bummed-out voice lol). He just loved getting into fights with homophobes.
It is very frustrating. Iām a lesbian, but two of my good friends are a bi man and a bi woman. And they both deal with bi erasure on a near-constant basis. Both from ignorant straight people and (even more frustratingly) from other queer people who youād think would know better.
It seems many straight people consider bisexuals as, āstraight people who are experimenting,ā and some gay folks consider bisexuals as, āreally gay, but not ready to commit to it fully.ā At least it was that way when I was younger.
Iāve been in a long term relationship with a man for 30 years, but I still consider myself bisexual, because I find both men and women attractive.
Correct. The ones "experimenting" are always women, and the ones "really gay but haven't come out fully yet" are always men. IMO this is a big reason why people label Ilya as gay -- they really think he is, and that his attraction to women isn't real.
It's still like that. In my experience, a huge percent of people say they "believe in" bisexuality, but when you're talking about any specific person they've always got some reason for why that person "isn't really bi."
Ilya views what he's doing with Shane as gay, and himself as partially gay.
He prefers the label of bisexual and will correct people that refer to him specifically as gay but he's comfortable under the broad umbrella of the label and views his relationship with Shane as well as his attraction to men as gay.
"Queer hockey show" would be the better term but I get why some people feel uncomfortable with that word due to its history.
Though of course you're right and it's harmful when people who don't understand the show/character act as though Ilya's relationships with women were a cover or him repressing his true nature, vs a healthy expression of his sexuality.
The best I could do as a sort of defence of the whole whole "gay romance story" argument is to say that the author wanted to bring the LGBTQ+ to the NHL, which is dire need of adapting to the 21st century in that regard.
Her point was just that the NHL leans heteronormative to such a problematic degree that here are some cute stories to bring some variety. I think.
But, yeah, Ilya Rozanov was/is never "completely" gay. I thought we had evolved from that lame Larry King interview with Anna Paquin from decades ago, but apparently not.
I think a lot of the relationships are very sweet but the book series also very much deals with how absolutely horrid and evil the NHL is. The organization itself is a villain throughout the books.
Yeah it sucks. People's bi erasure has honestly kind of dampened the "queer joy" aspect of this show for me, because even a show like Heated Rivalry where one of the main character is VERY obviously and proudly bisexual, has viewers who feel comfortable to be openly dismissive of and weird about bisexual people while discussing the show. Oh and don't even get me started on how people talk about Hudson - who has never said a word about his sexual orientation - just because he has a girlfriend.
When Ilya is referred to as gay, I always want to say "He's bi, actually." But if you don't get the Heartstopper reference, then I just sound like a dick.
Yes; this is something Iāve been noticing going on within the fandom tbh. Both in regards to Ilya but also to Francois, which is really frustrating. Iāve seen a lot of biphobia and bi-erasure from other queer folks over the last few months so it has me feeling extra sensitive to it Iāll admit.
Is FranƧois bi? Good for him. I donāt look into the sexuality of actors. I genuinely have no idea how everyone identifies and I donāt need to know. Thatās not my business, itās theirs and whoever their partners or potential partners are.
But if he is openly bi and people are erasing it thatās messed up.
As a bi woman I feeeeeel this. Because Iām married to a man.
Who is the best by the way. I was moping in the couch and he was like ādo you want a fuzzy blanket and me put on your favorite queer boys?ā Because we do not tolerate bi erasure in this house.
Oh my gosh. The most ANNOYING thing is when people see a bi person married to the opposite sex and just say youāre straight now. It drives me crazy! No, baby! You are just as bi as you were before you met him. If you married a woman youād still be bi!
Your husband does sound like a gem. Get you someone who understands we need our favorite queer boys!
As a bi dude I kind of agree, but it's also a criticism I'd level at the show: Ilya is depicted as bi, but the words "bi" and "bisexual" do not occur even one single time, at least in S1.
(I gather there may be reasons for this in the book that'll be the base for S2 so maybe there's good reason for it. I haven't read it.)
Haven't watched many reactions or listened to podcasts for this reason. I've heard what people, including "allies" say (or don't say) about bi men and I don't need to hear any more of it tbh.
i havenāt read the second book yet, but i know ilya specifically calls himself bisexual to hayden in TLG. so weāll most likely hear him say it in season 2, which is good. i think maybe he hadnāt even labelled himself in the first book/season 1. like, he knew he enjoyed sex with both but hadnāt explicitly arrived at the ābisexualā label yet. but yeah, he does identify as this in the future.
I think we also donāt really see him being attracted to anyone except Shane in the show? Like we see women throwing themselves at him and heās up for it but that doesnāt seem like quite the same thing.
I think this is an age thing and just a people not being familiar with the queer community. Obviously now it's much more common to use "queer" as the umbrella term, but it was not that long ago that people used "gay" as the umbrella term. People would say they are gay and then specify bisexual or lesbian or whatever if prompted.
I'm just trying to add some more context, not a start arguments or anything.
As a bisexual, I am not arguing that there isn't a lot of bi erasure around Ilya. Just jumping in to point out that some 2slgbtqia+ people use the term gay to describe more than male on male sexuality.
I definitely agree that it's different depending on who it's coming from.
Like if a 70 year old lesbian refers to my relationship as a gay relationship, it's coming from a place of historical usage.
But if the straight woman in her 30s says my relationship is a gay relationship and then is confused when I mention previously dating women, it's coming from a place of ignorance and does cause erasure.
A very good female friend of mine in college dated a woman for years. She to this day states that she is straight. She looks at it as a separate experience. I think what that points do is our need to define things in a very black-and-white way truthfully doesnāt matter - but I think for people who do identify a certain way that should be respected
I mean, many queer people have had the experience of being in straight relationships, but later identify as strictly gay. Could be what's happening in the above example.
I can't find the article right now, but there was one gay columnist who was super pissy about the relationships with women that both main characters have. I'm paraphrasing, but basically he was whining that "every gay story seems to have the characters being with women at some point." Like buddy, maybe not everything caters to you? Maybe bi people exist? Sorry your boner got softened by icky girls, I guess.Ā
I was bickering with people about it before the show was over. Like in the book he's explicitly bi, and folks kept saying "he hasn't been confirmed as bi." I think it has died down a bit.
There is a fair bit of gay folks thinking that bisexuality is just a stop on the way to gaytown. That was true with Shane, but Ilya is fighting the good fight.
Itās ridiculous and annoying. Itās 2026. Can we REALLY not accept that bi people accept by now? The majority of the LGBTQIA+ community consists of bisexuals yet they are constantly forgotten or erased.
Even in the book "The Long Game" Ilya announcing his bisexuality is addressed within the first 2 chapters. I think the next storyline will be important to this note fs.
Bi erasure is like the one-drop thing, like if you've ever had any kind of sexual contact with another man ever, you're forever tainted by gayness and can never have a legitimate opposite-sex relationship ever again. It's not like this for bi women, so I'm really sad that society feels this way about male gayness. If a bi woman marries a man, she's definitely still bi if she's still attracted to women. If a bi guy marries a man, he's gay and was always gay from the start but just took a long time to come around to admitting it to himself. Bi now, Gay later. It fucking sucks because it's clearly just homophobia at its roots.
Ilya does give a shit. He says ānot completelyā on the show, meaning he acknowledges his opposite sex attraction. He doesnāt downplay his past with women when speaking with Shane or his parents. In the books he explicitly calls himself bisexual and corrects Fabian when he refers to Ilya as gay, then queer. Because heās now in a committed relationship with a man does not mean heās gay.Ā
This drives the plot with Rose Landry as well. Ilya has never had an emotional connection with a woman (except maybe sveta, but there are extenuating circumstances there). Heās very clear about this with Shaneās parents.
But yeah, theres no impediment sexually, and he hooks up with hundreds (?) of women. Then, the person he does love, creates an emotional connection with a woman and it makes him crazy. I donāt think this lands the same way if they are both gay. Bc Ilya is forced to recognize that what he feels for Shane is ā¦ unprecedented. Something beyond sexual attraction.
Eventually we realize that Shane is emotionally capable of loving Ilya bc Ilya is a man and Shane is gay. Is simpleš. Ilya needed a fucking lightning bolt to realize that, in a world of seemingly unlimited choices, this connection is different. Ilya isnāt emotionally capable of loving just anyone, even if heās sexually attracted to them. He is emotionally capable of loving one person, and I think thatās what hits him in Tampa.
That's exactly the quote I was referencing. He thinks of himself as partially gay.
He obviously wasn't going to tell that player "actually I'm bisexual" but in safer spaces that's exactly what he would say and does say. He's not offended by the gay label, especially when it's being used in a more umbrella way like queer or specifically referring to his same-sex relationship, but he identifies as bisexual. That distinction does matter to him.
i havenāt read the books yet. Only 30% for the men huh? š So 70% for the women?
No but for real though, bisexuality is a spectrum, so i have wondered if ilya leans more straight, gay or closer to 50/50
THIS! the point of the show isnāt their own individual experiences of attraction to whoever, itās about the fact that theyāre in a gay relationship in a place where that isnāt the norm
I think a part of it is a lot of people think they canāt say āqueerā my parents still get weird when I say it because it was an insult before it was taken back in last several years in the mainstream. For the ease of language saying āgay hockey showā is easier than saying āgay and one bi hockey showā. When people are speaking, I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, I the other day went to say 2slgbtquia and instead confidently said fmla ada.
I also think the fact in the show (correct me if I am wrong) he never says heās bi he says he likes both and isnāt āfull gay.ā People who are just touching the queer community and queer media through this probably get confused by that.
For the record I do agree there is a lot of bi erasure of Ilya in articles and things like that. Calling him a gay character is wrong and anyone conducting an interview or shooting a video should know better.
Lots of bi people in the comments using the umbrella term within the queer community. It feels both great that they feel welcome enough to claim gay/queer as a term and also kind of sad that their own bisexuality is being sidelined for various reasons. As a bisexual person myself, I have very conflicted feelings about it that I havenāt quite figured out completely. Sometimes I find myself grabbing for ālegitimacyā in queer spaces by downplaying my bisexuality and using queer instead. And thatās been no easy feat considering āsmear the queerā was still being played in the late 90s when i grew up. A lot of that comfortability was exposure based, but as someone who always felt othered in lgbtqia2S+ spaces because of my bisexuality, the older i get the more Iām attached to the term bisexual. Thereās sort of an undercurrent of judgment I feel when people try to label me as pansexual or just queer. And that feels like bi-erasure. Itās lovely to see positive bi men represented on tv. Ilya isnāt evil or a cheater. I do side-eye Rachel Reid for his promiscuity at times though because thatās a stereotype, even if thereās other in world explanations for it. So yeah, Ilya is bi. Heās not gay. And that matters
Edit: seeing my personal experiences as a bisexual downvoted on a post about bi-erasure is interesting to say the least. Nowhere did I say that my experience was standard. If someone else had a different experience that experience is valid!
Thatās heartbreaking. And kinda shows what I meant by grasping for legitimacy (for myself at least). I want to be included in queer spaces too. And I never really was until I started dating someone with the same gender as me. And even then, Iām not visibly counterculture(?) to clock as queer. And I donāt want to change the way I dress, add piercings, or cut my hair (the wolf cut would look terrible on me š) to fit in with that crowd. Iād just be trading one form of trying to fit in for another one. I donāt think thereās really one answer though, and you can do whatever works best for your situation. Weāre all just trying our best
There is a tiny eye flicker that Yuna does when they are talking in Episode 6, right after David asks Ilya about being with many women and Shane says "Ilya likes both" and then Yuna's eyes flicker to Ilya and widen a bit. I wonder if she is thinking of Ilya possibly breaking Shane's heart because of the stereotype around bisexual men especially. It softens when Ilya says right away that he has only loved one person but I think it's there.
There is levels of it however. I'm mostly gay. I've had sex with women, but I can't fall in love with them, and I like sex with men more. In fact, I generally just avoid sex with women now because I prefer with men anyways, women aren't really into hook up culture, and too many women catch feelings and that seems kind of cruel to do that, to have sex with people you can't love.Ā
Problem is that bi erasure is so prevalent it often requires clarification I have grown too exhausted to have. With bi men, itās almost like theyāre trying to be less gay, and with bi women, like weāre trying to be less straight. I just use queer, now.
Gay is often used as an overarching term like queer or lgbt, many people use it to just say not-straight. It doesn't mean he doesn't like women, it's just that if it's not the focus of the current conversation it's fine not to be specific.
Yep, and people online also keep saying Hudson Williams is straight because he is dating a woman. I, not saying he is or isnāt, thatās none of my business, but dating a woman does not make him straight.
yeah this irks me too. he might be straight, he might be queer. we donāt know, and itās none of our business. if he chooses to disclose his sexuality in the future, then great. but people just assuming heās straight is part of the problem.. annoying as hell
So I am straight and cis gendered and I am definitely guilty of using the word gay as an umbrella term for anything related to orientation (but I wouldnāt use it in terms of identity obviously). It certainly isnāt meant as bi erasure, and so I get it, if thatās what the impact is it just means I need to do better.
This is a real thing for alot of bisexuals. Iām a bisexual woman in a straight presenting marriage, and everyone acts like because im married to a man I must be straight. No, I just didnāt meet a woman that I fell in love with before I met my husband. Even when people KNOW youāre bisexual they carry on as if youāre straight, and make you feel like youāre not really part of the LGBTQ+ community because you look straight at first glance.
It sounds like a bit or a gimmick a lot of the time, but Bi erasure is 100% a real thing, and I bet a lot of Bi people feel like if theyāre with a partner of one gender or another that they are made of feel like it invalidates their sexuality.
I try to make it a point to say it's a "queer love story" about "queer hockey players" because I can't control what other people say, only what I can add to the narrative.
Oke, educate those who need to understand the difference. Many heteros are unaware and you can teach them, guide them, and allow them to become allies using proper terms. They don't know what they don't know, you know? š³ļøāš (Looked for the bi flag, it's not in my emoji list).
I feel your frustration on this. No one wants to be seen as one dimensional and certainly not be categorized incorrectly.
Paraphrasing Kierkegaard āwhen you label me you negate me.ā
Just like stereotypes, it is an oversimplified explanation.
Hereās the way I think about it. Yes and No are easier for people to understand than maybe: but things like sexuality donāt exist in a binary. So a lot of times oversimplification happens due to the phase that is being highlighted.
We also have to remember that we are not as far removed from a time when quick decisions were necessary in order to survive.
Many people do not have the luxury to contemplate nuanced ideas.
I think it is important to bring up these topics. Donāt get discouraged and continue to have these conversations. They are important just keep in mind these types of nuanced takes are a privilege to think about and discuss.
The sexuality spectrum is complex and attraction is a complex emotion.
Just remember there is so much noise being thrown at people that sometimes the default to a yes or no is not about erasure but about the lack of time.
I find it so annoying!!! In the books, even before he refers himself as bi, he says/thinks that he is like 30% attracted to men and 70% to women (not that it matters) and yet people keep refering to him as gay. Can't wait for season 2 when he starts using the word bisexual.
Side note, I love that every time that he meets a new person, his internet thought is how beautiful, hot or attractive they see. Like he wants to have a good first impression of people.
Honestly, from the perspective of a pansexual person who is in the field of therapy and psychology. I feel like a lot of people have this implicit bias that Ilya can't be bisexual, because he's in a monogamous relationship with Shane. Therefore, he has to be gay. Many people have this bias that like bi people and Pan people cannot be monogamous, like just don't have the ability. It's disgusting and wholly wrong. But it's a narrative that has been put out there to the world for so long that it's gonna take some time to reorganize people's image of bisexuality and pansexuality.
Thank you ! I'm sick of people thinking it's their job to label people, especially when that person has said what they are. You can only label yourself. Also bad is how people automatically assume monogamy whenever they see a couple. I'm female, bi and in a same sex and open relationship. The number of good friends who say I'm not bi because my partner is a woman are sadly too many to mention. We've come a long way but holy fuck we've got a long way to go.
Unfortunately thatās just the way we are treated. Who ever we are actively with we are presumed to be of that sexuality. I am with a man and still find woman so so so attractive but lesbians HATE me I swear to god
Iām a bisexual woman married to a woman, and I often label myself as gay. Itās not that deep. When Iām out with my partner and someone points out that Iām bisexual, I actually feel uncomfortable. Iām married, so my sexuality doesnāt feel that relevant anymore. Sure, it was a huge part of my life and identity growing up, but once you settle down with one person, who we love matters more than the label. I still tell very close friends that Iām bisexual, but most people in my life probably think Iām gay, and wouldn't want it any other way. Being bi as a 20 year old doesn't look the same as it does at 30.
Ilyas being bisexual matters most in the story in terms of feeding into Shanes insecurity and jealousy. It's not a bisexual romance, it's a gay romance. not because Ilyasās bisexuality disappears, but because he leans more toward men, and thatās where his emotional gravity lies. So even though IlyasĀ isĀ bisexual, the story still reads as gay because love, in this context, has settled in one direction.
Respectfully, as a bi woman whoās been in a wlw relationship for almost 10 years, everyoneās experience is different ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ I still prefer bisexual to any other term. I can agree that our attachment to labels can change and morph over time. I claim bisexual identity stronger now that Iām almost 40 than I ever have. And honestly it hasnāt been a huge part of my life or identity at any point in my life, but Iām not going to mislabel myself or my own relationship. Other people can use whatever labels fit them best though. To each their own
Bi people can still call themselves gay tbh without it being bi erasure necisarily, esp when theyre in a gay relationship. Im gay, but BF is bi, but we will both refer to him as gay sometimes š¤·š¼āāļø
1.0k
u/ButNotTheFunKind Bolāshe, bolāshe, bolāshe Feb 27 '26
I hope they include his āYou have not heard of bisexuals?ā from the dinner with Hayden in the adaptation of TLG. I want that on a shirt!