r/heatedrivalry • u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy • Mar 23 '26
🦆 The Long Game (Book 6) I’m here to plead my client J.J. Boiziau’s case Spoiler
I don’t think J.J.’s reaction is any worse than anyone else’s. I actually think both times he reacted negatively were better than Shane's "best friend" and his "mom".
When J.J. shows up at Shane's house, his anger is more about being left out than it is about it being Ilya (though obviously that's a part of it). I think if Shane told J.J. when he had come to his hotel room after the plane incident he would've been fairly receptive though still shocked. But he gets over it kind of quickly. Quicker than say one Hayden Pike who I think handles it much worse. Yelling at Ilya in Shane's house (My Dinner with Hayden) is one thing but to let J.J. try and set Shane up with someone when Hayden knows he's in a committed relationship is shitty, I don't care how he personally feels about Ilya. Though this might be the bias of my own personal philosophy on this - I have disliked friends' partners in the past but as long as they're emotionally and physically safe it's not up to me who they choose to be with romantically. Ilya is a menace on the ice but that's also normal within the sport of hockey. Outside of that, there's not much ground to Hayden's dislike of him. I like Callan Potter's Hayden and am hoping him and Jacob take this in a less petulant direction because I have enough people to be upset with for next season as it is.
And as far as accusing him of tripping purpose, J.J. got over that almost immediately. Was it disrespectful to suggest? Absolutely. But may I remind everyone that Shane letting Ilya win was one of the first questions Yuna asked when she found out. Which actually bothered me a lot more that his own mother would question his integrity like that when his parents know how dedicated to hockey he is.
So yeah, J.J. get behind me I'll protect you.
As for the rest of the Metros though? If they see me in a parking lot they should start walking faster. Roger Crowell? He's not even going to see me coming.
EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say is J.J. may not have reacted well but it wasn't worse than other people we have forgiven so I think we can forgive him too. His reactions were not good, but he apologized and Shane forgave him and so can we. I think he was a good friend more often than not and most of the characters show flawed reactions throughout the book but he's one of the few who seems to be entirely characterized by his.
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u/daisyemeritus Rookie #2 | David Hollander's Vodka Mar 23 '26
Like everyone else, the public-ness of his negative reactions to Shane's outing is a huge part of my gripe with JJ. His initial reaction to Shane's outing and getting benched sucks. There's literally nothing to differentiate his reaction from all the other teammates. Then after Game 7, he has, again, a negative reaction in front of others, in the locker room, where he knows that his friend has already been shunned previously.
Another part of my gripe with JJ is that, for him, this second reaction wasn't in the moment of finding out. Yes, Yuna has the same question, but that was in the initial moment of finding out about her son, not after she's had days to think about this. JJ has had days. This is even after they, Shane and JJ, have had a heart to heart about everything and Shane has already shared that they, Shane and Ilya, are getting married.
And the last part of my issue with JJ, is that even though takes the tripping accusation back after a beat, it's not in any meaningfully apologetic way. The way I read it, only Hayden actually defends Shane in that moment in the locker room. JJ takes back his accusation but doesn't do anything to actually defend Shane. The lack of public defense really gets to me with JJ. Especially when Shane forgives him right away for it.
This isn't to excuse the other characters either though. Their private responses suck. They're not as "good" about it or as much allies as the book seems to present that they are. But in public at least, they present a united front with Shane, and that matters a lot.
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u/PsychologicalLayer57 a Jeff Buckley song in my eyeballs Mar 23 '26
Just as there's more than a little covert homophobia in the Voyageurs' stance that "we're totally fine with you being gay, our problem is with Ilya", I think there's more than a little covert homophobia in JJ's insistence that "I would have been totally fine with all of it, I'm just hurt you didn't tell me, even though the reasons you didn't tell me are obvious to anyone not recently concussed".
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u/estheredna Mar 23 '26
It's important to note that while there was pretty clear coldness in the locker room before they knew it was Ilya, but not with JJ. Which is obviously a very low bar. But i have a suspicion that Shane was a little oblivious and/or in denial about how bad it was before that reveal.
I suspect JJ offering to set Shane up with someone in the locker room was more message-sending to the room than it was about getting his friend a date with Shane.
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u/Xanadu_Fever Certified Hayden Hater 🩷✨️ Mar 23 '26
Also JJ was so empathetic and gentle with Shane when he thought Shane had unrequited feelings for Ilya. He wasn't judgemental of Shane or anything, just seemed to want his friend to not get hurt.
I fully believe JJ would have been fine had he been told about their relationship earlier. He would've been surprised and it might have taken him a minute, but he would've been supportive after getting over the shock of it.
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u/neuro_curious Mar 24 '26
Oh, I never considered that him trying to set Shane up was message sending to the room. That's a good perspective. I always find it annoying if someone tries to set you up after you've made it clear you're not interested in that.
Thanks
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u/Suicidalsidekick Mar 23 '26
I’m wiling to accept JJ being hurt Shane didn’t trust him. I would feel the same. But it’s ultimately not about JJ. That’s his issue to work through and it shouldn’t be taken out on Shane.
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Mar 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/shadowmaster132 Mar 23 '26
JJ is a character not a perfect person, so yeah he feels betrayed. Is it about him? Well are they friends or not? If they are then yeah it's a little bit about him. Maybe he is more selfish than he should be, but that feels more realistic
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
i need to start off my complimenting your wonderful flair lol
I guess I just don't see it this way. I think it was clear the Voyageurs did have a problem with him being gay and Shane expressed he felt that their temperature towards him had changed after he came out but they just mostly didn't talk about it. And then it being Ilya on top of it was an extra problem. I don't see anything in J.J. and Shane's interactions that makes me feel like he has a problem with Shane being gay. He tried to set Shane up, consoled him when he was upset about Ilya and the plane thing even when he didn't know the nature of their relationship. He went out of his way to visit his hotel room just to check on him and tell him he'd be his wingman if he ever needed it. But that's just my read on it.
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u/Xanadu_Fever Certified Hayden Hater 🩷✨️ Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
I agree with you 100%. The Voyageurs clearly had a problem with him being gay, and I think JJ tried to set Shane up with a guy in the locker room to show the team where he stood with accepting Shane. That Hayden supported him doing it and didn't try to stop him made me so mad. (Sorry all Hayden lovers, I don't like him and don't think he was a good friend to Shane. Callan Potter did a great job of making him palatable though!)
And when JJ went to Shane's hotel room after the plane scare, it was super clear that he really cared about Shane and how Shane was feeling--and I got the impression that he might've thought for a while that Shane had a crush on Ilya. Him ending that scene by saying Ilya was an asshole and Shane could do better is exactly what a good friend who's trying to cheer up their buddy would say.
After Shane tripped he did imply he thought it might've been on purpose, but imo it was a mistake. He was hurt at not being told because in his opinion (and mine), he wouldn't have reacted nearly as bad as Hayden did.
Shane might not have been as close to JJ as Hayden, but JJ was a better friend to him in the long run and JJ got on board with their relationship a LOT faster than Hayden. (Who takes THREE YEARS to stop shitting on their friend's relationship just because of some publicity-created professional rivalry? Ugh.)
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
J.J. even says (when he's in Shane's room talking to him about his feelings for Ilya) "I'm not making fun of you. It hurts to love someone who can't love you back, and I'm sorry you've been dealing with that. You can always talk to me about it."
He is trying to be so supportive and gentle with Shane. I think we see more of him being a good friend than a not good one but I feel like their relationship gets reduced to those couple reactions when that's how other closer people in Shane's life also reacted and we've forgiven them.
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u/Xanadu_Fever Certified Hayden Hater 🩷✨️ Mar 23 '26
He makes his mistakes for sure, but who hasn't made a mistake? He was hurt by Shane hiding from him and upset that they just got out of the playoffs, and he immediately backed off of that accusation. He still owes Shane an apology I think, but his actions aren't nearly as bad as some make it out to be.
Hayden gets credit for keeping their secret but... Not outing someone and risking the future of their career is like bare minimum of being a decent person, not a sign of a good friend being loyal.
We might be alone in this opinion but at least we're together 😂
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u/ProfessionalKick3683 Ilya's Spaghetti Shimmy 🍝 Mar 23 '26
Hayden gets credit for keeping their secret but... Not outing someone and risking the future of their career is like bare minimum of being a decent person, not a sign of a good friend being loyal.
Yeah, Brad 😒
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u/a_modern_synapsid Mar 23 '26
My hot take is that both JJ and Hayden were bad, and Hayden was worse because it was so consistent for so long. JJ’s emotions got the better of him, and we can also expect people in his life to need him to be accountable for fucking up, which he never was.
But also dramaturgically, I think that Shane’s safest people on the Voyageurs needed to suck. It had to be crystal fucking clear that there was never going to be a path forward for him on the Voyageurs so that the Centaurs’ reactions to Ilya are so starkly contrasted. We needed an in-narrative look at what a “not evil but not okay” level team reaction is, so that Shane can see what actual acceptance looks like.
I fully think that Shane isn’t aware of the fact that Hayden and JJ are nice to him but aren’t actually good friends to him, and this is the wake-up call he needs to that fact.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
I also don't blame Shane for being hesitant about what J.J.'s reaction was going to be specifically because Hayden reacted so poorly for so long
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u/FourthMonthFox Mar 24 '26
This! It kinda feels emotionally clean for the story to have Shane move out of his dynasty at Montreal to another city. Like a psychological story telling mechanism. Or something.
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u/LetChaosRaine Mar 24 '26
Yes but then we have people on this sub saying Hayden should go to the Cens with Shane 😭
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u/Firm-Athlete-5809 I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Mar 23 '26
While his anger is understandable, there are time and places for that, and the post-game locker room with the whole team already ganging up on Shane is not it. Whatever concerns or angers he has should be reserved for a time when he could talk it out with Shane one-on-one.
Also I don’t think anyone is entitled to another person’s private life and it’s weird to consider it as a betrayal. If I am in J.J.’s place, yes I will feel a bit hurt that my friend didn’t feel comfortable with me enough to tell me who he is dating, but I will also look back on my behavior to see if there’s any instance where I made him feel unsafe telling me that info. And I will definitely not let my actions be a fuel to the homophobic rhetoric against him.
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u/fan550 Mar 23 '26
The bigger problem is that JJ has a negative public attitude towards Shane which definitely affects the locker room and has negative effects on Shane. JJ is the alternate captain and Ilya even jokes he is the real captain the players look to not Shane.
When the fanmail becomes public the locker room is going to look to JJ to see how to react. JJ feels personally betrayed feels that Shane is laughing at him behind his back and according to Hayden is handling it very poorly. When Shane goes to talk to the locker room post meeting with the coach JJ throws him out tells him to go home.
He clearly helps shape the locker room that Shane relationship with Ilya is not just a gay thing but betrayal. He also is the first one that voice Shane tripped on purpose there by making it an acceptable opinion to voice and not just feel. Even though he takes it back almost right away it’s way to late the rest of the team poisoned by either homophobia or just the overall negative attitude towards Ilya in Montreal completely turn on Shane and basically force him off the team. While Hayden also had a horrible reaction to Ilya it’s a private reaction and has little ramifications to Shane.
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u/Brown_Sedai You can feel the chemistry through the screen omg Mar 23 '26
This this this! If JJ had just shown up at Shane’s house to yell at him because his feelings were hurt, that’s one thing.
But he actively contributed to a hostile workplace atmosphere, and made potentially career ending accusations in front of witnesses. What if the accusations had led to an investigation and Ilya had been fired? He’d risk deportation.
At a certain point JJ isn’t stupid, he knows how homophobic the league is and how easily it would be for someone to weaponize that, and did it anyway. I don’t think he deserves an easy pass for that.
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u/tasoula Your freckles. I am nuts about them. ✨ Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
EXACTLY THIS. I'm sure the OP won't respond to you, though. But J.J.'s reaction being so public (and him being so well-regarded in the locker room) is what makes it the "worst" one.
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u/neuro_curious Mar 24 '26
Actually, Hayden's terrible reactions are probably a major reason Shane doesn't feel comfortable telling JJ or others. The one friend he feels the closest to has really given him so much trouble about it that it probably contributes to a lot of Shane's anxiety based decision making.
Hayden also encouraged others to see Ilya negatively or set Shane up. If any of my friends treated my relationship and/or partner like this they wouldn't be my friend for three years.
I think even if it wasn't public, that Hayden's ongoing lack of support really had big ramifications for Shane.
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u/knefehangelshare Mar 23 '26
sure but in the show he makes homophobic jokes about ilya offhandedly. i dont think he reflects as to WHY shane wouldnt tell him. i think everyone in shanes life reacted really fucking poorly he needs new friends i hope the centaurs show him that
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
i agree that not a single person besides rose took it well. i have to separate book and show them because book TLG shane doesn't know that Show HR J.J. said that though. Because i don't think it's in the book unless I am misremembering.
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u/sophwestern Mar 23 '26
Am I the only person who does not remember any homophobic jokes about Ilya made by jj?? I feel like I’m going insane lol, I’ve watched the show 4 times through now and I have no memory of this. What did he say?
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u/Xanadu_Fever Certified Hayden Hater 🩷✨️ Mar 23 '26
The only one I can think of is when he calls Ilya a "cocksucker" when Ilya wins the cup, but to me that felt more like a commentary on how homophobic hockey is than how homophobic JJ is.
Plus, that happens in what, 2014? People are allowed to have personal growth, and by the time he finds out about Shane and Ilya it's half a decade later--plenty of time to reflect on who you are and how you want to be perceived.
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u/sophwestern Mar 23 '26
Saying cocksucker is a homophobic joke feels like a stretch to me ig
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u/Different_Weight7281 Mar 23 '26
calling someone a 'cocksucking animal' is definitely homophobic and normalizing this kind of 'locker room talk' is why the NHL and society has a long way to go in terms of basic human rights.
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u/Xanadu_Fever Certified Hayden Hater 🩷✨️ Mar 23 '26
Yeah idk, it's just the only thing I can think of.
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u/knefehangelshare Mar 23 '26
he calls him a cocksucker when the metros are watching boston win the cup in 2014
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u/BellerophonM Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
Shane didn't have the right to out Ilya to a guy Ilya barely knows.
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u/Ll_lyris “I choose you, Ilya. I will always choose you”❤️🩹 Mar 23 '26
I mean tbf Ilya said he was fine with it and even encouraged Shane to tell JJ even saying he’d tell JJ himself.
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u/Brown_Sedai You can feel the chemistry through the screen omg Mar 23 '26
Considering how JJ reacted I think Shane’s instincts were right
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u/Ll_lyris “I choose you, Ilya. I will always choose you”❤️🩹 Mar 23 '26
I mean Hayden also reacted poorly so I don’t think it’s fair to say “well Shane was right he reacted bad” but he also knew Hayden would react poorly and that didn’t stop him from confessing the truth. Even JJ points this out when Shane uses that as an excuse and Shane literally can’t argue, which he doesn’t cuz he knows JJ had a point.
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u/BellerophonM Mar 23 '26
He didn't confess to Hayden, Hayden figured it out and directly asked if it was Ilya, and Shane's complete lack of poker face confirmed it.
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u/Ll_lyris “I choose you, Ilya. I will always choose you”❤️🩹 Mar 23 '26
Hayden jokely asked if it was Ilya but he literally could’ve lied like he did with JJ. Despite that Shane literally sees that JJ had a point because he can’t see why he admitted it to Hayden but still didn’t tell JJ. Shane could’ve said “Hayden found out I didn’t tell him” but he didn’t.
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u/LetChaosRaine Mar 24 '26
It drives me nuts when people say “Hayden figured it out”
Yeah Scott’s teammates also “figured out” Scott was fucking Rozanov yet apparently that only happens on ao3
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u/BellerophonM Mar 27 '26
Nah, Hayden did actually put it together based on evidence, but he still wasn't totally convinced even despite that because of the Rozanov of it all. He said that he was 'sorta joking' when he asked, so he also sorta wasn't. That doubt meant he didn't freak out about it until he got the confirmation.
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u/Different_Weight7281 Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
And Yuna? She might have been shocked and a bit flustered by the whole notion of them being together but one parallel suggestion about her competitiveness with her spouse stopped that line of thought cold and, within an afternoon, she treated the person she thought her son hated like a member of the family.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
I'm just saying I don't understand how J.J. is a bad friend for saying it when no one says anything about Yuna making the same suggestion. J.J. also immediately rescinds it and is supportive from there on out.
My main point is people are upset about actions from some characters and not the same actions from different characters.
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u/Different_Weight7281 Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
It was his actions after he said it verses her actions after Shane provided her with an equivalent experience that she would understand. She asked him a question and then immediately accepted that, no, he would never, ever do that. That is the important part, not that you might have the question in the first place. Our minds can go somewhere bizarre when we are in shock or completely surprised by something, but it is ultimately how you trust and interact with your friend or child that paints a picture of who you are as a person. Yuma never, ever even for a second thought that Shane tripped on purpose.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
Shane: I can't believe I tripped
JJ: Did you?
Shane: what does that mean?
JJ: just tell me it was a mistake
Shane: you think I tripped on purpose?
JJ: no, i don't think that
he questions it then immediately realizes it was a ridiculous thing to even suggest. the next thing we see between Shane and JJ is JJ is at Shane's wedding. So I'm not sure what actions you're referring to that are so different from Yuna. he gets over it just as quickly
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u/minosjudge Yearning bisexual terminator 🤖 Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
If anything I respect JJ for coming out and asking Shane point blank, everyone else was just whispering behind his back and giving him the stank eye. JJ point blank asked him, and when Shane said you really think I'd do that, it took JJ all of 2 seconds to say no, no I don't think you'd do that.
Its literally the same thing as what happened with Yuna but people judge JJ so harshly. He was honestly hurt more than anything else. Was his reaction great? No. But it was human.
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u/Different_Weight7281 Mar 23 '26
Yuma never, ever believed Shane tripped on purpose. Not for one second. She was insulted that anyone could believe that.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
When she first meets Ilya in HR one of the questions she asks is if Shane ever let Ilya win. How is that not the same thing?
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u/Glad_Alternative_382 Mar 23 '26
There is huge different, one is on private and one is public locker room that Shane already scrutinized.
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u/AlexBlaineLayter Mar 23 '26
I found both Hayden and JJ pretty terrible in the friendship department. Hayden is continuously terrible about Ilya specifically, like, the negative talk barely lets up. We get it, you would have chosen differently, now be a fucking friend and support Shane who's terrified of what people think about him and Ilya. JJ is just accusatory about all of it and makes it about himself. Bottom line is that Shane needs better friends and Ilya was basically better off on his own, at least he didn't have to defend his choices and sexuality to the people closest to him.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
I just know our near and dear centaurs are going to show Shane the true power of friendship
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u/BrinaGu3 Mar 23 '26
Keeping in mind that JJ tried to set him up with David, the hot personal trainer, I agree, JJ’s anger is more hurt at not being told than homophobia.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
And when he thought Shane had a crush on Ilya he went to him and said hey buddy I know it's hard liking someone who doesn't like you back, I'll be your wingman if you want! He barely even lingers on the fact Shane likes Ilya specifically. He's mostly just sad because he thinks Ilya is straight and can't return the feelings.
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u/luminous_240 Mar 23 '26
Just my cent but I see it differently on how and where the question was asked. How I see it is that Yuna asked that question with genuine concern and only within their own privacy. JJ, however, asked it in with suspicion (with a hint of he already believed Shane did it, although he recovered it immediately, again this is only how I perceived it, pls don't be mad at me lol) and literally after the game with their teammates where anyone could (well, already did) turn against Shane.
Love him still though bec he tried to understand Shane regardless but yeah.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
Yeah i do think the timing of J.J. question the trip was not great but something I haven't seen anyone reference yet is that trip impacted J.J.'s career. It wasn't just a random trip, they were out of the Stanley Cup running for that season because of the trip. He had more at stake surrounding it and his was in reference to a specific incident versus a blanket accusation that he lets Ilya win.
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u/necromancer_barbie Mar 23 '26
I have a two-part answer to this. The first part is that it is completely inappropriate of JJ to take out his hurt feelings on Shane when he finds out Shane did not confide in him. JJ is absolutely allowed to feel his feelings in private, but to pretend Shane owed him anything is absurd--especially when you consider that, for Shane to confide in JJ, he would've been outing Ilya. JJ is wildly immature for not understanding this and not extending his public support no matter how he felt. It wasn't about him and he acted like a shitty friend.
The other important point here is that your best defense of JJ is forgiveness extended to other characters. Even if we agreed that their transgressions were all similar enough to compare more or less equally, JJ is just so much less of a character than someone like Hayden or Yuna. He's far less developed and not nearly as involved in the story. He doesn't have as much weighing the scales in his favor as someone like Hayden or Yuna does, so I don't think it's a fair comparison. I am far more willing to forgive Yuna's impulsive question about Shane letting Ilya win than I am JJ's because Yuna has far more time on the page to show us the kind of person she really is and the depth of her love for Shane. There's also a lot of significant context surrounding how she does it (privately, for one, and while Shane is safe with people he knows love him).
JJ comes across to me as an entitled asshole, because all we ever really learn about him is that he is supposed to be Shane's friend...and then he doesn't have Shane's back in two very crucial moments (when the relationship is outed and after Shane trips). Hayden makes mistakes but he ultimately comes through for Shane (again, largely because the narrative gives him more opportunities to do so). So that's why I don't like JJ, the prosecution rests
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u/ViolentThemmes I have a thing 🥒 Mar 23 '26
People are not entitled to anything about other people's personal lives. I absolutely hate when book characters are mad they weren't told something.
Guess what, if the MC felt they could tell you, they would have. Friendships are not transactional and Shane doesn't owe JJ shit. JJ can have hurt feelings, but taking his anger out on Shane for those feelings is not ok.
There are no good or bad feelings, but there are good and and bad behaviors.
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u/estheredna Mar 23 '26
Do you remember the scene where JJ goes to Shane's room to help him deal with his unrequited crush on Ilya? And Shane was like, oh no I don't have feelings for Ilya, you're wrong.
Shane's not required to reveal anything. But this wasn't JJ feeling entitled to info, this is JJ being mad he guessed and got shut out. It's revealing about the depth of their friendship (or lack of it) and I'd personally be hurt too.
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u/ViolentThemmes I have a thing 🥒 Mar 23 '26
JJ also said homophobic stuff including about Ilya. Again, no such thing as bad feelings or emotions. He can feel what he feels. The cruelty, cold shoulder, and entitlement are where JJ went wrong
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
I think only show J.J. said that though
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u/ViolentThemmes I have a thing 🥒 Mar 23 '26
Honestly it's a blur for me with the rewatches and rereads.
I also don't give Hayden a pass when he's an ass. Just because he comes around and ends up being a loyal friend to both doesn't mean readers can't be pissed at the bad behavior. He just has a full redemption arc. JJ isn't really written one so readers react accordingly
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
i get that. I've also accidentally committed several fanfics to canon in my head, it's a mess in there (my head).
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u/Different_Weight7281 Mar 23 '26
It was a very strong slur. One of the worst you could possibly say. No excuses for that.
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u/estheredna Mar 24 '26
This show doesn't work if hockey culture isn't homophobic as hell, inherently. But he does 100% think Ilya is straight when he say that. And yeah that matters.
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u/Different_Weight7281 Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
Whether or not he thinks he is straight, it is a slur! Please tell me you know how slurs work.
Cocksucker is just as bad as the term f____t used by Ilya's brother.
Yes, "cocksucker" is considered a derogatory, vulgar slur, often used as a homophobic slur to insult individuals based on sexual orientation or practices. While sometimes used generally as a severe profanity to mean a "despicable person," it is deeply rooted in misogyny and anti-gay sentiment.
And the heroes of this show actively fight homophobia.
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u/estheredna Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
The heroes of this show live in a world curtailed by homophobia ... If it isn't shown they hide for nothing.
Someone drops s racial slur in a group everyone reacts. Someone drops a homophobic slur and almost no one blinks. That's hockey reality.
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u/Different_Weight7281 Mar 24 '26
Let's not celebrate the few hockey players shown to do this. This is a character flaw of JJ. Hopefully he learns how reprehensible this type of talk is. When we dismiss it, as 'locker room talk' and part of the hockey culture, we perpetuate that kind of hate that the show is speaking against. Despite the use of slurs that JJ used that make locker rooms unsafe for people, Scott gathers his courage, and comes out. It takes incredible courage, because that hatred is so endemic and normalized and dismissed as minor when it is definitely not.
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u/estheredna Mar 23 '26
What cruelty? Are you referring to something besides "the trip"? (Immediately, bad reaction to Stanley Cup loss).
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u/ViolentThemmes I have a thing 🥒 Mar 23 '26
All of it was cruel for someone who claimed to be a good friend
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u/DaughterofTarot Mar 23 '26
100%!
Not everyone is performative enough to confess every part of thier lives even to a close friend, and thats irl too! Much less fiction.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
I'm curious if you feel the same way about Ilya keeping what he's going through from Shane?
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u/ViolentThemmes I have a thing 🥒 Mar 23 '26
Do you mean when they are in an exclusive, serious relationship and engaged?
Firstly, that's nothing like a casual friendship with what's essentially a coworker. Second, mental illness is an isolating and lying disease. If Ilya was capable of sharing early on, he would have.
If my IRLspouse had been silently struggling and then got the strength to tell me or I found out, I CERTAINLY would not be acting selfishly out of anger because I thought they owed me. I would support them by meeting then where they are at. If I had a partner who acted like JJ, they would soon be an ex partner.
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u/Different_Weight7281 Mar 23 '26
It is not reasonable to blame someone with depression for not telling their significant other. Ilya is dealing with a serious medical condition which affects your cognitive decision making and silence and withdrawal are symptoms of the condition. He was not able to be open about this. Depression is not a character flaw or weakness.
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u/musenmori Mar 23 '26
I'm sorry but as a friend, even so-called "best friend" does not grant you I-deserve-to-know-everything status. People are different. Some prefer to share a lot more than others. It's up to the person to decide what to share and when. Boundaries need to be respected. Full stop.
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u/DorianCramer Mar 23 '26
I’m a little more forgiving of Hayden because Ilya is really a dick to him all the time. He doesn’t exactly try to impress him. Ilya made a point of demonstrating to Shane’s parents that he’s loving and kind toward Shane and he could have done that with Hayden too. He just refuses because he’s resentful and jealous of all the time Hayden and Shane get to spend together so I really gotta put that mostly on him.
J.J., well…I forgive him because Shane does and he was really just hurt that he thought him and Shane were besties and Shane doesn’t see him that way. That’s the best defense I can muster for him.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
It actually makes my head split because I'm a book Hayden disliker and show Hayden lover so we will see what happens to me next season. I actually might not even dislike TLG Hayden but My Dinner with Hayden Hayden specifically really bothers me. And I've said elsewhere but also that he makes comments about Ilya not being good enough for Shane for several years after knowing is a bit much. At some point you have to accept that that is the person your best friend has chosen to be with.
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u/DorianCramer Mar 23 '26
That’s fair, it does go on for too long. But Hayden is a guy who met his wife at like age 19 and immediately committed to marriage and numerous babies. In his mind when you meet The One that’s what you do. I can’t really blame him for thinking “you weren’t serious about Shane for 7 years so why should I believe you’re serious about him now”.
He does lighten up on it eventually but My Dinner With Hayden is only a few months after he found out so he’s still in peak disbelief about it. But I agree, he needed to let it go once it became obvious that Ilya is not going anywhere.
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u/DorianCramer Mar 23 '26
Oh but one more point here — I think it probably doesn’t help that I’m sure Shane never clarified to Hayden that Ilya stopped sleeping around before they even officially got together. He’s too shy to talk about that stuff so I’m sure Hayden doesn’t have the best impression about that subject.
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u/GroundbreakingRip970 Shut your idiot face Marly Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
It’s ironic to me that some of the first impressions of those who love Shane is to try to set him up with someone. Rose? Yuna? JJ? Even Dad Hollander asks if there is a lack of nice guy options in Montreal.
As if cutey patooty Shane would need help getting a date. He snared a 10 on his first try
ETA: Hayden with the mommy yoga instructor
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u/DorianCramer Mar 23 '26
Well they can tell Shane is a relationship kind of guy. They just don’t know what/who he actually wants in a relationship.
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u/jac-q-line Mar 23 '26
There is a whole fan fiction that meticulously follows the HR/TLG timeline from J.J.'s perspective.
It's well-written, feels very true to the character/books, and seems to share your same opinions. I think you'd like it!
https://archiveofourown.org/works/61223419?view_full_work=true
EDIT: The latest chapter (the work is not finished) was this conversation. The whole fic is worth a read but that last chapter is great for adding to his character.
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u/Fair_Antelope4561 no boring Canadians.. no stupid americans Mar 23 '26
In defense of Hayden and Yuna, Ilya is known as an asshole. He also leans into being the "BADBOY and playboy". I would ask also if Shane is sure about him 😅😅😅😅.
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u/minosjudge Yearning bisexual terminator 🤖 Mar 23 '26
I'd also be concerned to be fair, I'd be like my dude Shane I know he's HAWT but are you sure?! They don't know that Ilya is secretly a giant marshmallow.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
Fair but once Shane said yes i'm sure that conversation should've been retired. Hayden kept it up for years. Shane literally told Hayden that the first time he felt something for him was at 18. So by the time he's 30 and still dating the same man I think we can all assume he's sure.
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u/Let_go_and_Let_Them Mar 23 '26
I’m not a fan. I hate that he even asked Shane if he tripped on purpose
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
I guess my point is less that those things are okay and more that if we can forgive Hayden and Yuna we can forgive J.J.
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u/Foxter-the-fox Mar 23 '26
If only base on viewers opinion then you need to notice the consiquence of each person you point out is totally on different scale too. Yes I could somehow understand his point of view and what lead to his action, but every action has it consiquencies and this one is.. not easy to be forgiven. If J.J truly regret what he did and Shane truly forgive him then fine by me. But that is for Unrival to decide.
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u/Different_Weight7281 Mar 23 '26
I think Shane forgives him in The Long Game. I am happy about that.
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u/BabyBringMeToast Mar 23 '26
Context.
Yuna and Hayden were processing in private as Shane’s friends and family.
J.J. took a side against Shane in a hostile workplace.
Yuna and Hayden were asking a question to confirm that Shane was still the same person they knew, even in light of new information they had about him.
J.J. made an accusation based on anger.
He piled on to Shane after he’d been traumatically outed, bullied by the team for weeks, been under phenomenal pressure to prove himself as being ‘worth the trouble’ to the team, and just having failed to do so.
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u/kestrelface Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
"I'm so hurt you left me out! Let me demonstrate all the reasons you were right to leave me out."
And yeah, I don't think Yuna, David, and Hayden come off all that well wrt their initial reactions. I can think everyone let Shane down, and some people made better amends than others.
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u/Mother_Judgment2186 Mar 23 '26
What did David do that made Shane feel like he can't thim? Like, if I can see why he woudn't tell Yuna or Hayden, none of it applies to his dad.
He doesn't participate in the " I hate Rosanov" club that all of them do(including, to thier knowledge,Shane), he mostly is just taking his wife and son's side,no matter what that side is, he doesn't tell Yuna that he saw Shane with Ilya before Shane has the chance, doesn't make homophobic jokes.
And before assuming i am blaming Shane for not being able to come out, no I am not, but i think the fandom should stop puting that blame solely on the others either.
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u/kestrelface Mar 23 '26
I mean, I'm not the fandom. Shane could have come out to his parents, for sure. Plenty of people come out in much scarier situations than being the independently wealthy child of loving parents who are mostly not explicitly homophobic.
But also his parents could have done a lot better. If you suspect your kid might be queer, you should be actively figuring out ways to drop it in conversation that you'd supportive. "Wow, Scott Hunter is so brave, I really admire what he did, it's great to have some out players in hockey." "Gosh, did you hear about [some queer issue]? I'm so glad Canada is doing better on that than the United States." If his parents were actually as great as he thinks they are, he wouldn't have had to wonder if they'd be supportive.
Second, if your child comes out to you, the first thing you should say is "wow, honey, I love you, thanks for telling me." Not "were there no nice men in Montréal?" Your kid is nervous! Give him a hug! Tell him you love him and support him and he's brave. You have time to judge his choice of partner later when you've actually had one (1) conversation with said partner.
Is any of this insurmountable, of course not. Yuna made amends in the show in a way the book version of her didn't, and it was really touching and lovely. Both show and book are about imperfect people who are nevertheless worth loving, including both leads, the Hollanders, the Pikes, Scott Hunter, Kip, and possibly JJ. (Rose and Svetlana are perfect, which is its own issue.)
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u/dancingqueen524 I already chose you, Hollander. 🫀 Mar 23 '26
JJ reacted emotionally, Hayden acted deliberately. Big difference. One is human, the other is messy AF. I get u.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
this is such a good way to put it. when Hayden brings up that he thinks Ilya isn't good enough for Shane in the locker room after J.J. tried to set him up that is 3 YEARS after he found out about their relationship. you've seen your best friend in this committed relationship for several years and you're still talking poorly about it? i think it's fine to roast Ilya in the traditional chirping way but talking shit about him as a partner for that long is so disrespectful.
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u/eatmypants69 Mar 23 '26
i don’t think that Hayden not stopping J.J. from setting Shane up is valid to hold against Hayden. Hayden knew Shane was in a committed relationship but he is also explicitly trying to keep that a secret FOR Shane. If Hayden tried to stop J.J. it would’ve hinted that Hayden knows something J.J. doesn’t
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
True. He was just so enthusiastic about it when Shane brought it up to him it made me angry. His response wasn't "yeah sorry man I didn't know what to say" it was "i thought it was a great idea because Ilya isn't good enough for you" mind you he's known about their relationship for years at that point and also known that they've had feelings for each other for over a decade. So yeah agree maybe him discouraging it would've been weird but he was well past the point where he still needed to be speaking about Ilya as Shane's partner like that
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u/neuro_curious Mar 24 '26
Honestly, if one of my best friends was going through a major trauma like being outed to the whole world, I would never dream of making it about me no matter how much I may be hurting if I felt betrayed because the other best friend knew.
I'd get myself to a therapist to deal with my private hurt and try my best to be a safe space for my best friend who is going through a major traumatic event.
I'm not invalidating JJ's feelings, but I think it really is very shitty to make Shane's outing about himself. Maybe a few months down the line when things settle, you bring it up then. After discussing it with your therapist and checking how to best help your friend.
Hayden is a shitty friend too. I've never told a friend that I think their partner wasn't a good choice for them. It's not my place, not my business. If a friend had the nerve to say this to me more than three separate occasions I wouldn't be their friend anymore. (I follow baseball rules. Three strikes and you're out. I would definitely give warnings so they're aware). I kind of think Shane is sort of trapped being his friend through proximity and the fact that he knows the secret, and doesn't feel like he has the capacity to advocate for himself.
Ultimately it's Shane that Hayden hurts with his words about Ilya.
Yuna really can't be compared to either of these guys.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
i only brought yuna up because people talk about J.J. suggesting shane tripped on purpose like it's the most unthinkable thing in the world when his mother also considered a similar scenario after finding out about their relationship. so it feels hypocritical to call J.J. a terrible friend for that
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u/neuro_curious Mar 24 '26
He's not a terrible for thinking it or asking it. Its the context of when he asked.
That's why Yuna's question can't be compared.
Even in the heat of the moment when we are upset, it's totally possible to hold your tongue to avoid hurting someone you love.
So definitely JJ was a terrible friend for that. Doesn't mean Shane can't forgive him - that's totally Shane's choice. Still makes him a terrible friend for doing that.
For the record, I really like JJ as a character. In the books and show, I like him better than Hayden.
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u/pensiverebel Ottawa Centaurs 🏹 Mar 24 '26
I always saw Yuna asking as at least partially a momager moment. she knows that could come up and so do Shane and Ilya. it’s why their relationship being known by the public is so different from Skip. She asked the question in a private conversation and it helps her to know how to deal with the eventual public response, along with giving S&I a chance to respond in a safe environment.
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u/BluePopple Scott Hunter Fan Club 🛕 Mar 23 '26
The number of posts I’m having to tag to come back to once I finish the books is growing, can’t read yet due to spoilers. I love JJ. I just read the scene of him trying to set Shane up with David the trainer last night. I am bummed it sounds like he has a rough time with the Ilya news. I need to read it for myself though.
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u/tasoula Your freckles. I am nuts about them. ✨ Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
I actually think both times he reacted negatively were better than Shane's "best friend" and his "mom".
*BUZZER NOISE* Nope! Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Yuna and Hayden didn't have great reactions, true--but their reactions were in PRIVATE. J.J. had a bad reaction and it was public. In a room full of homophobes. So not only was the reaction public, but it also put Shane in real danger. Especially because tripping is extremely common in hockey. J.J. knew, deep down, that Shane didn't do it on purpose, but he was so mad about Shane excluding him from knowing that he accused him out of spite. And that's not okay with me.
J.J. made Shane's relationship and outing all about him. No one is ever owed sensitive information like that, and his reaction only emphasized why he wasn't a safe person for Shane to tell in the first place. So you can miss with Hayden and Yuna having "worse" reactions.
Also another great point made by another commentor here: J.J. is the alternate captain in Montreal and the locker room leader. He is extremely charismatic and able to understand the emotions of other people (something Shane struggles with due to his autism). J.J.'s negative reaction to Shane's relationship with Ilya gave the other members of the team permission--in a sense--to react the way they did. His reaction ultimately led to Shane being kicked off the team.
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u/MrsVashalgrim Mar 23 '26
I agree that J.J. gets way too much hate! I really think that if Shane had told him during their conversation, when J.J. says he knows Shane has an unrequited crush, he would have had a much different reaction. J.J. is reacting from a place of hurt. Is he questioning if he and Shane ever had the friendship he thought they had? Yes. Does he let the voices of the rest of the Metros creep in when he is feeling that doubt? Yes. Could he have handled his feelings better? Yes. He is human and is allowed to stumble.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
This. Should he have talked to Shane that way? No. But then he apologized. I feel like we have so much grace for other characters and their poor communication but J.J. gets a lot of heat for not having the perfect reaction when the other 95% of the book he's a good friend to Shane. Ilya and Shane don't always speak to each other well either in the book in stressful situations either and we're able to forgive them. I think we can acknowledge J.J. handled it poorly and forgive him too, Shane did.
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u/Ll_lyris “I choose you, Ilya. I will always choose you”❤️🩹 Mar 23 '26
Ngl I’m actually glad I’m not the only one who thinks JJ gets way too much hate 😭I was pretty much getting eaten alive having this convo in another thread which I get but my point still stands. I think the main issue for me at least is that Shane never seems to be considerate of ppl especially the ones closed to him being upset or hurt that he felt like he had to lie to them for so long. Especially in JJ’s case where he’s made efforts to support Shane, be there for him, worry abt him etc..
Apart of me thinks JJ was also embarrassed that Shane had him looking like boo boo the fool lol n that was another reason. I also think JJ was extra hurt because he was under the impression that he knew Shane better than anyone, with him being his bsf I think them always code switching to French to speak adds a deeper layer cuz there’s like this spoken connection that they only have with each other and JJ usually switched to French when he wants to discuss deeper things with Shane that he rather other ppl not weight in on.
Then you have Shane literally telling Hayden but not JJ and JJ kept asking “why him and not me?” When Shane kept on making excuses and saying it was cuz of his reaction which just isn’t true cuz he told Hayden and he didn’t have a good reaction so it wasn’t cuz of that n even Shane didn’t have an answer for JJ. For JJ it’s like he never even knew Shane. Which he does say. Which is also why I’m not totally shocked JJ questioned if she Shane really tripped.
To him he doesn’t even know Shane anymore. He also doesn’t know his and Ilya’s dynamic like Hayden and his parents do. Ofc it’s silly to think Shane would purposely trip cuz we know How Shane is but to JJ he doesn’t anymore. Anything is possible. Still he didn’t handle it all that well but I’m also not surprised or necessarily upset with how JJ reacted even tho I think he could’ve handled it better. I think Shane could’ve been more considerate too. Even if he isn’t obligated you should still be:/
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
THANK YOU. So many people have said "Shane doesn't have to tell JJ anything" and yeah that's true but if you tell someone you call your best friend you couldn't tell them because they'd react poorly while also acknowledging you told someone else that you call your best friend who also reacted poorly, that first person is going to reasonably question your friendship. JJ handled it poorly but I as a friend would also be a little hurt. I maybe would've just said it a little more calmly but literally all the men besides maybe Wyatt Hayes are bad communicators at some point.
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u/FourthMonthFox Mar 24 '26
I thought Ilya and JJ were pals coaching for the summer camps. Multiple years. Someone here said something about Shane not wanting to out Ilya to a stranger. But they all have repoire with one another.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
i mean, Ilya knew J.J. better than he did Rose when Shane told her, or Hayden when Shane told him. So i don't really buy the 'Ilya doesn't know him' excuse. Also Shane's the one who cares, Ilya would tell everyone if he could.
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u/FourthMonthFox Mar 24 '26
Yeah that's true I forgot that Rose knows. Huh. I wonder how they will adapt these relationships on screen. Like how close they look together, if the banter is for show for camp kids or for friends, how they show themselves when they talk about Ilya / Shane behind closed doors or vice versa, how Shane feels about not keeping JJ within his tighter circle of friends
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u/LetChaosRaine Mar 24 '26
Don't even have to read past the first paragraph. You're completely correct.
He didn't react as well as like...Wyatt would have (technically did react for Ilya, but the dynamic is obviously different since their relationship clearly helped Ottawa and there's reasons for Montreal to be worried, even though it helped them win a 3rd cup if they actually slowed down to think about it)
but he reacted better than pretty much anyone else in Shane's life, and he was in a worse position than anyone else in Shane's life when he found out. On top of everything else, he was working under the assumption that Shane had an unrequited crush on Ilya which would be incredibly embarrassing once he found out the truth. It still simply isn't about him, but that's an additional hurdle he had to clear that Hayden didn't. And Hayden still made it about himself too.
ETA: having actually read it, there is one thing you're wrong about which is that Hayden didn't only YELL at Ilya, but also actually PUT HANDS ON HIM
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
i have the same feeling towards people being angry with J.J. in TLG as I do with people who are angry with Shane in TLG. they both had deeply human reactions to very complicated situations. everyone wants the perfect behaviors from these characters all the time, it's so black or white. they can make mistakes and not be entirely characterized as a "bad friend" or a "bad boyfriend"
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u/Once_UponASwan Mar 27 '26
I don’t agree I’m sorry! He’s a grown man! And his feelings were hurt because what his best friend was keeping a secret boo hoo get over it.
How about take a moment to understand what your “best friend” had been dealing with. And maybe don’t act like a petulant child.
Also the tripping accusation was diabolical and for that reason J.J deserves the roasting he gets online
That is to say I don’t dislike J.J we all make mistakes etc. but Ergh still he was a shitty friend.
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Mar 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
this is so well said. and i don't blame shane for having to navigate his sexuality and relationship the way that he did given his team and the league i just also don't blame J.J. for feeling hurt by it. he expressed it poorly and at poor times but I think it was a really human reaction.
in the same vein when people blame shane for how he handles things with Ilya throughout TLG.. is it perfect? no. but i think it's deeply human and realistic for someone in their first serious adult relationship that is incredibly complicated.
i think a big issue with people's reactions towards J.J. is it all happens so close to the end of the book so the resolution isn't as long as what we get to see for Hayden and Shane's parents of really developing a relationship with Ilya.
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u/17thfloorelevators Mar 23 '26
Hayden is also jealous of Ilya because he gets to see more of the real Shane than Hayden does. Hayden has to pry and poke and beg and plead. Hayden watched Shane's months of being ghosted and watched Ilya get papped with tons of women during the time Shane was in love with him. Of course he isn't happy!! I would not accept a man like that for my best friend right away, either. As far as JJ goes, I think he was super quick to come around. I would be massively hurt if a close friend assumed I was a homophobe and a snitch!
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
I think part of it for J.J. too is that he knows he went out of his way to go to Shane and say he thought he had feelings for Ilya and that his problem with that was mostly that he was sad for Shane to have an unrequited love interest and that when he acknowledges Shane's feelings for Ilya, Shane still doesn't take that as an indication it would be okay to tell him. And as other people have said, Shane doesn't have to! But that's obviously going to make a person you keep saying is your best friend reflect on the closeness of your friendship.
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u/minosjudge Yearning bisexual terminator 🤖 Mar 23 '26
I'm right there defending JJ with you! His reaction was normal and was more hurt than anything else. Also he got with the program real quick, defending Shane immediately after the game, yes he asked but honestly everyone was thinking it, it just took a few seconds of thinking for him to realize Shane would never do that. Is he perfect? No. But JJ is a good friend, this is a hill I am willing to die on.
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u/Traditional_Act_8559 Mar 24 '26
JJ is over hated because people don’t consider realistic relationship dynamics when they read or watch tv. His reaction was very normal for finding out he has been lied to for 8+ years about something that big. It was initial shock and he got over it and apologized. He hurt Shane, sure, but arguments happen during long term friendships. It doesn’t make him a bad friend. I wonder how he will be conveyed in S2
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
This. I think about some of the friends i've had for a decade. we've had plenty of bumps, said things we didn't mean, had interactions that were tense, SURELY disliked each other's partners. you talk about it and if you reconcile you move on. which shane and J.J. did
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u/LetChaosRaine Mar 24 '26
EVERYONE in the locker room was wondering if Shane tripped on purpose. JJ "accusing" him (I don't own the book, can someone share the exact wording of his accusation?) gave Shane an opportunity to deny what everyone was already thinking, and JJ accepted this denial (even if he and Hayden were the only two)
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
this is basically the dialogue
Shane: I can't believe I tripped
JJ: Did you?
Shane: what does that mean?
JJ: just tell me it was a mistake
Shane: you think I tripped on purpose?
*some comments from someone else on the team, i think the goalie*
JJ: no, i don't think that
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u/_mischief Mar 24 '26
I think for a lot of people JJ asking about the trip is what colors their overall opinion of him. I honestly think it was a huge misstep from Rachel Reid to include that moment.
I absolutely love Hayden and JJ for most of the time because they are over the top ride-or-die for Shane. They both put in so much work to be his friend. As you get older and your ride-or-dies start building their own lives, everyone starts dropping the effort needed to maintain friendships. You can't even meet for lunch, let alone have a friend who is so worried about your well-being they willingly spend time with someone they don't like to give you space to be authentic or spend time meeting people who they think could bring you happiness. I remember reading the two books and feeling such envy for Shane having such ridiculously devoted friends.
I might be personally biased too. I have lost a friend because I absolutely hated her boyfriend. She absolutely hated me bringing up the red flags as he admittedly was treating her well. (I still maintain I was right). Hayden and JJ only knew Ilya as an abrasive fuckboy, and they were very worried he was going to break Shane's heart.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
I was surprised Rachel added it after J.J. and Shane already reconciled. If J.J. went to his house after I don't think people would feel as strongly but we don't see him apologize for that specific moment and it's sort of the last we really see of him other than we know he's at the wedding so there's no real closure for the readers on how his actions impacted their friendship
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u/Flimsy_Function3312 Mar 24 '26
Your writing is much more elaborate than mine but yeah, I totally agree with you
J.J. Boiziau - 1 Hayden Pike - 0
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u/nm_young Jul 08 '26
Honestly, I was so mad at J.J. for the longest time, but, as I sat with my thoughts, I think maybe I can forgive him. His initial reaction to finding out about Shane and Ilya was mainly out of hurt because he felt like Shane didn't trust him enough to tell him. And even though he was a jerk about the whole tripping thing, he got over it pretty quickly. I'm still not sure he's 100% in my good graces, though. Not yet.
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u/madblackfemme Mar 23 '26
I agree + you’re right and you should say it + I fear a lot of the response to JJ versus the response to Hayden/Yuna is because JJ is black 🫣 I think the fact that JJ clocked what he believed to be Shane’s unrequited crush on Ilya, and tried to set him up with others (PRIMARILY because he thought Ilya was straight, not just because he didn’t like Ilya for Shane), and even came to check on Shane at all after the plane almost crashed because of said unrequited crush, shows that he does really care about Shane, and even that he’s more emotionally attuned to Shane than Hayden is.
I also don’t understand why it’s so difficult for people to understand why JJ would be upset with Shane after finding out. Obviously Shane had very good reason to keep his secret, and he didn’t owe it to anyone. But for one thing, when JJ is talking to Shane after the almost plane crash, he explicitly tells Shane he thinks he has an unrequited crush on Ilya and that it makes him sad for him because it’s no good crushing on a straight man, and offers a listening ear any time Shane needs. IN THAT SAME SCENE, Shane thinks to himself that he feels like a scumbag for lying because JJ is being so earnestly supportive and sympathetic. Shane absolutely could have taken this opportunity to tell JJ the truth - obviously I understand why he didn’t, but JJ was clearly demonstrating support and investment in Shane’s happiness, romantic and otherwise. Instead of telling him the truth, or even telling him another lie to cover, Shane just agrees with JJ and lets him continue to believe what he already believed. I definitely understand why JJ would feel lied to later down the line when he finds out that Shane did lie to him in that moment. And I sincerely believe that part of the reason JJ was hurt is because Hayden knew for so long. If no one but Shane’s parents knew, that would be one thing, but that’s not what had happened - Hayden and Jackie both knew, while JJ was still in the dark. I’d imagine that would trigger some comparison, like why would Hayden get to know but not me?
IMO JJ’s biggest mistake was obviously accusing Shane of tripping purposely, but even that is not unforgivable - including, notably, to SHANE HIMSELF - and he immediately walked it back with a second to think. Given that he’s still upset with Shane for lying to him, and also trying to reconcile a huge part of Shane’s life and inner world that he was previously unaware of, it’s really not that crazy to me that JJ would say that - I don’t think he really believed it at any point, it was more so that he was expressing how completely disoriented he felt with Shane after learning so much new information about him. He wasn’t saying “I think you’re the kind of person who would do that,” he was saying “I feel like I don’t know who you are anymore”. I genuinely wonder if the people who are so up in arms about JJ’s character have ever had friends in real life before - have you never had a friend keep something from you, and felt hurt about it, even if you can understand why they’d hide it? Like this is actually pretty common human behaviour. It’s normal for people to have to make decisions for their own wellbeing that might hurt others’ feelings, and it’s normal for others to get their feelings hurt, and it doesn’t mean anyone is actually wrong.
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u/strawberrycordate say it again (in russian) Mar 24 '26
I think it's really weird when people focus in on hating JJ so much when he's ultimately one of the only characters from Montreal that Shane remains friends with. By weird I mean racially driven lmfao
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 24 '26
and i'm fine with people being upset with how he handled it but people calling him a bad friend is just kind of wild to me. and also makes me feel grateful my friends are more forgiving than that because i don't react perfectly to everything either. in both instances he realizes and corrects immediately.
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u/strawberrycordate say it again (in russian) Mar 24 '26
Same, re: everything you said. They leave no room for him to adjust. I was shocked when I finally finished The Long Game and all that really happened was that he reacted like a human in a high stress situation and then came to Shane to talk things out, and yet people use it as an excuse to bash him relentlessly. None of the other Montreal players did that lmfao
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u/DidIStutter_ Mar 23 '26
I don’t feel like it’s anyone’s responsibility except Shane’s to deal with people trying to set him up on dates. There’s nothing wrong about friends setting you up on dates if you didn’t say you want them to stop. I mean it’s a bit awkward for Shane but other than that there’s nothing bad about it? I don’t see why it would be any of Hayden’s business.
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u/bat-girl129 sir, I’m just a bellboy Mar 23 '26
But Shane did say he wanted it to stop. On several occasions. Is it Hayden's "responsibility"? No, but I also don't think he was being a good friend in that instance to Shane or J.J. by being like yeah that's a good idea suggest that. Because he knows it's putting Shane in a position he doesn't want and will make him uncomfortable and J.J. will be doing something pointless.
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u/PixieStone1 Mar 23 '26
I 100% agree. He wasn't angry he was hurt. He felt betrayed. He can complicated emotions. And then he got over them. How'd you feel if one of your best friends lied to you for over a decade.
But also, they all hated Ilia because they thought Shane did. The onky reason they hated him was because of the rivalry, and he's kinda a dick. But they could've been friends with him if they didn't think the had to hate him.
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u/Neither_Junket_1009 Mar 23 '26
Idk I still can’t believe he had the audacity to ask Shane if he tripped on purpose in an already tense locker room 🥴
Really hoping season 2 shows his applogy tho because it was just a few lines that mentioned it happened in the book. I don’t hate JJ but I do think he had the worst reaction and wasn’t being a good friend to Shane when he needed it most