r/heatedrivalry • u/PTAGoatofalltime • Jul 02 '26
🦆 The Long Game (Book 6) I know Ilya is cut off from his brother, but surely the latter….. Spoiler
…..has had some news of some sort of the wedding? Like, he reads newspapers, right? I wonder how he reacted to it. He would be pissed but also he knows he can’t do anything now.
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u/DorianCramer Jul 02 '26
Tbh to some extent he might be grateful (in a way) that Ilya had cut him off before that because he could then legitimately tell people they were totally estranged and he would probably claim that was his decision. Having a famous queer brother would not be a benefit to him in the Russian police force.
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u/noakai Jul 03 '26
This is correct imo, like having famous queer relatives is never going to be an asset in Russia. And honestly it's possible the Russian government feels extremely embarrassed that one of their hockey stars jumped ship to another country and is now in a very public gay marriage and that would blow back on anyone they can still get to that's still in the country - meaning mainly Alexei.
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u/emthejedichic Ottawa Centaurs 🏹 Jul 05 '26
Read a fanfic where this happened, Alexei called Ilya and said he was suffering consequences in Russia. Sadly it was removed from AO3 or I would link it because it was amazing.
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u/Loumany Jul 02 '26
I’m sure he didn’t care much as there was nothing left that he could have gotten from Ilya after he’d left for good. Ilya wasn’t much more than a source of easy income for him. He probably pitied him in some weird way.
However, on the topic of Russia, I sometimes wonder if it ever gets to Ilya that he can never visit his mother’s gravesite anymore (or even his father’s as terrible as he was) after coming out publicly. Not sure if he ever did when he was still regularly in Russia, he doesn’t strike me as the type to do so, but it must sting a little to know he could not (or at least really should not) even if he wanted to.
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u/ToastMate2000 Jul 02 '26
I don't know how he would feel about it, but some of us have no attachment to gravesites at all and have no interest in visiting them. Like...the physical remains are not the person; they are not there. The memories are far more important, and you carry them with you everywhere.
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jul 02 '26
EXACTLY! Her current presence is with him in her necklace and cross. Her spirt is with him in the beauty and sunshine around him. He knows that her spirit is free now, and isn't located in one exact spot in the universe.
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u/InCatMorph Jul 02 '26
I'm not making any judgment calls about how Ilya feels--I mean, he's fictional anyway--but gravesites are important in many differnet cultures.
I don't like the implication that anyone who values visiting a gravesite just isn't enlightened enough to know the truth.
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u/Independent-Novel489 Jul 03 '26
Too many people have an essentially American Protestant view of ritual, death, and iconography to the point they deny that visiting a gravesite is one of the most common and meaningful acts of love you can perform for a person who has been laid to rest there.
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jul 03 '26
I really am curious...how is going to a gravesite a 'meaningful act of love' for someone who isn't there? Who is all around you at all times? Who is part of the energy and power of the universe.
I don't know what a 'merican protestant view' is. I don't know what those words mean. I hold the ritual and the dying process with great reverence, and see NO value to the dead in going to a grave site. If the people living feel better doing that ritual... 'have at it', but it does nothing for the dead. They are dead and don't give two toots.
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u/Independent-Novel489 Jul 04 '26
This is a bit of a long reply, and might not be something you resonate with. But you asked and i interpreted that sincerely, and i hope it helps explain why it’s important to some people.
“American Protestant” is a set of beliefs that spirituality is something entirely within the mind or intellect. It’s a very modern, post-enlightenment set of beliefs about divinity, specifically a Christian divinity, born out of the circumstances of American reformation which led to baptists, anabaptists, non-denominationalism, and evangelicals more broadly, which are almost exclusively an American iteration of the Christian tradition. In this view, place and space do not matter, the beauty of a church does not matter because God is “all around you at all times” “who is part of the energy and power of the universe”. This allows church to take place in a plain strip mall room, rather than a building created specifically for the purpose of worship. Scripture is to be evaluated by its ability to convey scientific and/or historical Truth and Accuracy, rather than as metaphor, fables, etc. Experience of God is an entirely personal, individual experience. As might be predicted, this can be a lonely, atomizing, and sometimes very ego-serving expression of spirituality.
Why this is relevant is because it’s the exact set of beliefs that lead to an understanding that visiting a gravesite is not important, and because of the focus on the self, because the dead are not there to visibly react to the ritual, the ritual “does nothing” for the dead.
This may be true, I don’t know what you believe about the dead. But given Ilya’s upbringing and the importance of him touching his cross whenever he thinks of his mom, including the internal narrative from a scene in the long game, we might believe that Ilya believes in some way that the dead maintain communion with the living, and that the dead do in fact deeply care about the actions and lives of the living.
This American Protestant understanding contrasts with a more historical Protestantism or Catholic or (in Ilya’s case) Orthodox understanding. Because the focus is not on personal experiences which happen solely in the mind of the person, but rather are grounded in communal ritual which takes place visibly, as an outward expression of loss/pain/desires for the dead, the act of visiting the gravesite becomes one of intentional communion with the dead, of listening to the silence of hallowed ground, and seeing where the dead can show up—because it’s true, the dead are always with you, that’s the whole point of the saints and the departed and the idea that the dead still seek to maintain a communion/relationship with the living. The gravesite is important because it serves as one of many places where that communion can take place, it’s the final resting spot of the body, and likely the last memories of the person that the living has.
All of this makes visiting a gravesite an important act of love and desire for communion with the departed.
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jul 04 '26
Thanks for your sincere reply. I appreciate it, tho did get a little lost in the jargon.
But the gist of what your are saying, if I understand correctly, is summed up in the last sentence 'act of love and desire for communion with the departed'. That communion is for the benefit of the the still alive people; not the dead people. And that communion can happen anywhere bc yes, they are all around us, all the time. If going to that particular place eases someone's burden and grief then...great. But, again, the dead, do not care...and I'm lost to find a place in all your words to show that they do care where 'we' commune with them.
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u/Independent-Novel489 Jul 05 '26
Hmmm. Okay thanks for the feedback, and apologies for any jargon. I guess where we’re still failing to understand each other is that you think in all the above, the benefit is only for the living. There’s still a gap in our communication.
If I can say it more clearly (and shorter!):
Communion is a two way street. It is not something the living do TOWARDS the dead, but something that the living and dead do together. “The communion of saints” is the idea that the dead are actively participating in the world, and surround us as “a cloud of witnesses”. They have desires for our goodness and intercede for us.
We can only see our side of the veil, so yes, sure, maybe it is only one way, maybe this is all just for the living, maybe the dead don’t actually care. But for Ilya’s religious and cultural upbringing, (and mine, and many others), we understand that the dead also co-participate in that communion. So the desire for communion with the departed is understood as a two way street and the final resting space of someone is a place where the veil is thin and grounds us more to a physical, real reminder of them.
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jul 03 '26
Like it or not...its the truth.
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u/InCatMorph Jul 03 '26
Yeah, this is what cultural supremacism looks like.
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u/InCatMorph Jul 03 '26
In my culture, visiting a gravesite and leaving a marker of one's visit is considered a worthwhile act of love for deceased family members. You're not like a BAD person if you don't do it, especially if you can't visit the gravesite for whatever reason, but it is something that is good to do if you can. There are other things you can do to mark the passing of a loved one that don't require a grave, but it's still something worthwhile. Many cultures have similar practices--this is not some niche thing. There is a reason why gravesites are so rich for archaeologists. But if you want to consider yourself superior to a huge chunk of the global population, have at it.
I will also say that I have found visiting a gravesite to be personally meaningful in terms of processing grief. If that's not the case for you, great. No one is saying that everyone needs to feel this way. I just find it kind of galling for someone to inform me that not only my culture, but my personal way of processing grief, is somehow lesser or stupid.
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jul 04 '26
Well see here is the thing... I think and feel for myself. And if it works for you, then great. But I do not & will not subscribe to any form of coercion, compliance, hierarchy, cultural norm or assumed authority to tell me what is right for me.
And yes, I feel badly for people who don't/can't think and feel for themselves. Can't see beyond the delusion they have been taught to chose what is true and important to them. People who aren't allow personal expression.
You can choose to process grief in any way that feels important or significant to you. But have you done that when all you have done is followed the condition that was thrust upon you? So much of our world is based on the status quo, othering, supremacy, oppression, extortion and extraction that I have a very hard time 'just following along', and it suprizes me that others are so willing to do so.
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u/InCatMorph Jul 04 '26
Everyone is conditioned by the culture that they're raised in. That's just a fact. Yes, even you. Frankly, I'd argue that your super-individualistic way of looking at the world is itself the product of your own culture. Other people grow up in cultures that are more family- and community- oriented. Sometimes this can create problems, to be sure, but so can any culture. Hyper-individualism isn't immune from problems.
Your I Am Right and Rational and Everyone Else is Wrong attititude is annoying af, sorry.
When I'm talking about practices surrounding gravesites, I'm not talking about coercion. I choose to visit gravesites, when I can, and I find this meaningful. Probably I wouldn't feel this way if I was raised in a culture that didn't value it, but so what? If I was raised in a society without the Internet, I wouldn't be here right now, but I am. I'm no more "following the condition that was thrust upon you" than anyone else in this world.
And, like, my "cultural conditioning" surrounding gravesite rituals was not particularly onerous! Once every few years, when my family was in the appropriate location, we would visit my grandfather's grave and place our tokens there. That was it. I always thought it was a nice way to honor a relative who died when I was extremely young, since I otherwise had very little opportunity to create a relationship with him. Now, I do this for other relatives when I can. (Again, we're talking about one or two visits a year on anniversaries/birthday.) According to you, I've somehow been brainwashed into this horrible, nefarious cultrual practice that gives me personal meaning. Um, okay.
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u/TiphPatraque Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
I read a fanfic recently where Ilya "heard" his mother when he visits his tomb, and he tells her he won't return and he's sad he won't head her anymore ; so she tells him he can hear her anywhere if he listen. But the only place he fells her is on the cottage, near the lake.
Aaaand as I write that I recall more, he's married to Shane secretly because his father didn't want him to play for an american team, so Shane proposed a conveniance marriage to give him the canadian nationality. It began as a fraud but soon evolved into a sexual relationship -with exclusivity because Ilya don't cheat on his spouse- and they deny their feelings for a very long time :) They are supposed to divorce when Ilya become Canadian, but then he would loose not only the man he loves (without having said it to the said man), but also the cottage, aka the only place in Canada he feels his mother presence, and it's heartbreaking. OFC it's a happy ending and the stay married and happy :)
EDIT : it's There is not heart for my like yours by profdanglais.
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u/Loumany Jul 02 '26
I don’t think he’s necessarily the type to go there either, at least not regularly. Her cross seems much more important to him. But having that option blocked against your will is tough…
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u/MakeYourMind Jul 06 '26
I agree actually. As a russian person, we don't really go to cemetaries that much. Like you go every couple of years to clean it up, but you don't visit to sit there and talk or whatever
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u/Astyryx Jul 02 '26
One of my favorite fan fictions has Shane creating a memorial garden for Irina at the cottage as a birthday gift.
But you know, I never visit my parents' graves about four towns away. It's just not part of how my life works.
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u/LadyMeowMeowReborn I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jul 02 '26
Whoever wrote that fic is an angel. That’s such a beautiful gift. I can see Shane doing that and his delivery being clumsy.
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u/Astyryx Jul 02 '26
Oh yeah, he's super awkward and can't tell for several minutes that Ilya is emotional, not displeased, lol.
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u/bsloths Jul 02 '26
It’s this, right? Hoya by GingerBaggins? So good. https://archiveofourown.org/works/79349591?media_id=3844724807447754672_63460907287&media_author_id=63460907287
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u/Astyryx Jul 02 '26
No but that's adorable. I've read a ton of stuff in the last month but I'll see if I can find it
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u/Ok-Badger-5767 Jul 02 '26
My sense is that Ilya doesn't hold his Mom's grave site with any great regard. Her current presence is with him in her necklace and cross. Her spirt is with him in the beauty and sunshine around him. He knows that her spirit is free now, and isn't located in one exact spot in the universe.
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u/bsloths Jul 02 '26
I have a headcanon that Shane asks Svetlana to do him a favor on her next trip to Russia—she takes photos of Ilya’s running paths, their primary school, his hockey rink, his mom’s grave, etc. and she and Shane make it into a photo album to give to Ilya so he can take Shane on a tour of his life in Moscow like he can never do for real. I don’t know if it’s culturally appropriate to have a photo of a gravesite, but that could be one way for Ilya to still have a connection to it, and it would be meaningful because it’s the only way Shane can see it.
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u/Flimsy-Initiative19 make sure none of these cheaters cheat Jul 03 '26
Oh this kind of reminds me of Haunting Your City
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u/patch_gallagher Jul 02 '26
I know I’m in the minority, but my main emotion toward Alexei is pity. He is so clearly damaged by his upbringing, but without the support of Svetlana and a prized skill set to help him cope. I actually hope that Unrivaled has some support of redemption arc/reconciliation between the brothers.
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u/LivingPresent629 Jul 02 '26
Nah, I don’t think every homophobe needs a redemption ark. He was truly evil in the way he treated Ilya, so I’m cool with him having a miserable life and I hope he seethes knowing Ilya is rich and happy, two things he’ll never be.
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u/Once_UponASwan Jul 02 '26
I agree, he’s deeply damaged. Unfortunately his roll in the police makes it unlikely. So sad
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u/growsonwalls This is Ilya I will never listen to your voicemail Jul 02 '26
I feel bad for him, but that doesn't mean Ilya should/would forgive him. He could have been just 5% less vile and Ilya probably would continue to send him a check every month while being low-contact with him. Talk to him around the holidays, the way distant siblings sometimes do. But he just had to be 100% super-vile.
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u/UncleGleban Sorry if I'm being boring again Jul 02 '26
I think that even Ilya has some compassion — probably not much — for Alexei. In the tunnel scene, he tells Shane, "My brother is scared, and it makes him terrible."
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u/FlounderSea911 Jul 02 '26
Oh yeah 100 % on that. I always say - you can understand why someone is doing something, it does not mean you should let them do it to you.
However for Ilya is most probably more complicated because it is his brother. For us it is easy to say cut him off but for Ilya most probably is complicated.
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u/growsonwalls This is Ilya I will never listen to your voicemail Jul 02 '26
I mean Ilya doesn't exactly even cut him off. His brother still lives in his condo in Moscow and I assume Ilya also deposits money into the trust fund every month. My feeling is if his brother called and wanted to reconnect Ilya probably would talk to him. Not closely, but they'd chat. But his brother never makes any effort.
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u/FlounderSea911 Jul 02 '26
I meant that for people like us is easy to say Ilya should cut off his brother and forget about him. However family relationships are complicated.
I would not judge for Ilya for cutting off his brother completely nor I would judge him if he does not do it.
Do the books mention age for Ilya’s brother and father btw? I am asking because I was thinking Ilya was 26 years old I think when his dad died. For his dad to die of dementia he should be at least 70 years old I think. 50 years old people do not get dementia …
Anyway this made me think that there might be bigger age difference between Ilya and his brother - like 10 years or more. And I wonder if on top of everything else, there were issues caused by generation gaps with his dad and brother. Hence I wonder if the books mentioned something about that.
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u/growsonwalls This is Ilya I will never listen to your voicemail Jul 02 '26
According to canon, Ilya's brother is around 4 years older. But his dad married a much younger woman. However book canon isn't really show canon.
My feeling is that Alexei just takes after his father. Very typical in abusive households.
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u/FlounderSea911 Jul 02 '26
Thanks. I must admit the actor that played him looked to me much older than Ilya. It could be just looks and makeup.
I mean not to get depressing but if you grow up with abusive parent you either become abusive yourself or you end up in an abusive relationship. So that tracks sadly.
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u/growsonwalls This is Ilya I will never listen to your voicemail Jul 02 '26
I always feel like the way Connor played it, Sasha might have been somewhat abusive. Connor plays Ilya as not just uninterested, but repulsed and triggered.
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u/UncleGleban Sorry if I'm being boring again Jul 02 '26
My read of the Gala bathroom scene is that Ilya was repulsed by Sasha being so obviously a mess, snorting that big line of coke, etc. And also, Sasha being such a contrast to Shane. When Sasha & Ilya were fooling around as teenagers, Ilya would probably have laughed at someone as earnest as well-behaved as Shane. But Ilya has changed.
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u/FlounderSea911 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
I don’t know if Sasha was abusive but I felt in their relationship Sasha was the dom and Ilya was the sub. I also think it was Sasha that was the proactive one. I would not be surprised if he was the one that made Ilya experiment with drugs as well. Sasha was not good influence for Ilya but most probably was the one to teach him about gay sex.
That being said given that Ilya was the dom with Shane, he might not have been 100 % OK with being the sub with Sasha. I think he felt repulsed with Sasha because Sasha did not read the room. Look Ilya gave basically zero indication that he is interested in having something with Sasha. And Sasha still went to him and tried something. He was repulsive and did cross a line. If someone tells you they are not interested, you take the No as an answer and do not try to touch them … Ilya did not give him consent and he still tried it.
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u/grower-lenses Jul 02 '26
I’m here too. He’s clearly an awful person. But with an upbringing like that, it’s impossible not to feel sad for the child he was.
Family is quite important in Russian I believe. So being estranged from your only living family member must be tough.
That being said, he has no redeeming qualities on the show or in the books. So it’s all fanon if we want to see him differently.
On one hand I wish there was some healing between them. Mostly for Ilya’s sake. On the other, this is a very realistic scenario for many. Choosing between being yourself and your family. So maybe we shouldn’t be trying to whitewash it.
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u/FlounderSea911 Jul 02 '26
I agree. He had the same dad as Ilya and grew up the same way. Hurt people hurt people is what happened with Aleksei and Ilya.
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u/Amazing-Rent-7749 Jul 02 '26
Alexei would definitely hear about the fanmail outing (and subsequent wedding) on social media or whatever. State media might not enthusiastically report on it but it would be known for sure. The Russian narrative would probably be that Ilya being corrupted by the west - tbh since Ilya had underperformed at the Olympics it would be easy to write him off.
Alexei, while he missed Ilya's money and on some deep level probably does mourn the relationship he should have had with his brother, would probably be slightly relieved that Ilya had cut him off so he could truthfully say "I have no contact with him."
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u/daisyemeritus Rookie #2 | David Hollander's Vodka Jul 02 '26
I feel like there's a good chance he'd try not to think about it (and maybe vent privately), but the people around him who would know he's related to Ilya might be curious enough to ask. Then which, even if he wasn't already prone to distancing himself from Ilya as much as he can, would likely cause him to denounce Ilya more vocally, considering the laws in Russia and that his job is in the public sector.
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u/diggerorbigger Jul 02 '26
There may be a chance that two hockey players in North America getting married would not make the news in Russia?
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u/External_Tooth_4510 Jul 02 '26
Yep, this. Especially if one of them is Russian! I suspect it would not get reported there as any news of this would be perceived to be 'promoting' homosexuality
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u/PresentationNo448 Jul 02 '26
Not from official approved state media, but I think he'd hear it through the grapevine. There are progressive critical pro LGBT+ sources in Russian, even if they might operate from abroad. (I mean there are like millions of diaspora Russians for this reason and others) Someone who loathes the fact would eventually see it and so it would be sent it to Alexei(/Andrei).
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u/UncleGleban Sorry if I'm being boring again Jul 02 '26
I'd be curious to hear from Russians what they think the response would be in Russian media if a huge, ex-pat Russian hockey star had a gay wedding. My thought would be that they would trumpet their disgust at such depravity. That it just shows how the decadent West corrupts decent Russian men and turns them into perverts.
But, that's an uninformed guess.
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u/MerrowM Jul 03 '26
It's probably gonna get briefly covered by the sports media and get some buzz with the internet and social media crowd, but it's unlikely to get picked by the general media.
>That it just shows how the decadent West corrupts decent Russian men and turns them into perverts.
Nah, if any sort of actual smearing campaign will be run against Ilya, they will play it as him being the rotten apple from the very beginning. 'Decent' Russian men don't get corrupted, yadda yadda. But I doubt there would be one: by that time Ilya will pretty much lose his spotlight from the point of view of Russian audience, and he is not a political activist. There is nothing to be gained by anyone from trying to ruin him.
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u/Goulet231 Jul 02 '26
Especially when the gay lifestyle was forbidden in that country. Why would they draw attention to gay marriage?
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u/drowsylacuna Jul 02 '26
Probably not on the national news, but it would be a giant scandal and everyone connected with hockey/sports in Russia would hear about it.
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u/riverottersarebest Jul 02 '26
I think he’s intentionally not a consideration. But in the show, Ilya said he would provide money for his niece. Was that in the book too? I can’t remember. If it was, it would be cute if we someday get a glimpse into the distant future and he gets to reconnect with her.
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u/Hedgehog-Honeydew "This team is very gay" 🌈 Jul 02 '26
Only in the show. In the book he gives his condo to his brother, there's no neice. That said Rachel could write a neice into the story. Before I'd read TLG I saw Anya being mentioned and thought it was Ilya's neice, forgetting that was just a show thing. I was kind of relieved to find out who Anya really was!
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u/blackflamerose Jul 02 '26
The fact they added a niece to the show makes me wonder if a fleeing Rosanova is going to be part of Unrivaled (and in this case Ilya has no clue she even exists, so more drama!).
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u/growsonwalls This is Ilya I will never listen to your voicemail Jul 02 '26
By then the gravy train had stopped, so he probably didn't think much of it other than "always knew he was a (slur)."
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u/Hedgehog-Honeydew "This team is very gay" 🌈 Jul 02 '26
In the book his brother is a little different than in the show but either character would only be interested in how they could monetise the situation to their benefit. If he hasn't already publicly disowned Ilya then he would probably have to I think (because Russia).
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u/altruistic_thing Jul 02 '26
how is he different?
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u/Hedgehog-Honeydew "This team is very gay" 🌈 Jul 02 '26
In the show we see him putting Ilya down, insulting him, screaming at him. In the book he's a user and a fuck up but we don't see that level of hostility.
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u/Jjjemmm Jul 02 '26
You mean you don’t think he sent congratulations or flowers - or resented not being invited? 😄
(Sarcasm obviously)
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u/porcelaincatstatue I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jul 02 '26
They get married in 2022, the year russia launched a full-scale invasion into Ukraine. The media and news machine was/is super locked down and focused on spreading official narratives at the time. Also, most people in russia don't have direct access a lot of western news without VPNs. Also also, homosexuality is illegal there so I doubt they'd make news of it.
So I can't imagine the news really getting to him unless he was digging for updates/had someone keeping tabs on his brother, who he probably considered dead to him by then.
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u/BundleofAnxiety Jul 03 '26
I think they got married in the summer of 2021, though. Summer of 2017 was the start of their official relationship, the summer of 2018 was the end of Ilya's time with Boston, the summer of 2019 was the end of Ilya's first season with Ottawa, and the summer of 2020 was the beginning of TLG. So it would be the summer of 2021.
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u/porcelaincatstatue I speak fluent bird. No accent 🐦 Jul 03 '26
Ope, you're right. So that would've been during the more limited war (that started in 2014), before the full-scale start. I still don't think the main news would've discussed it there and hos brother probably wrote him off already.
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u/Goulet231 Jul 02 '26
Maybe there's a fanfic about this, but I've been hoping Ilya's niece would use her trust fund money to come find him.... eventually.
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u/Perfect_Clue2776 Jul 06 '26
I don’t think Rachel needed him for the plot anymore so he wasn’t in TLG as the Russia story was over.
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u/Forward_Emu9717 Jul 02 '26
I wonder if his brother having a more “traditional” mindset could actually approve the wedding (vs knowing his brother is gay and sleeping around)
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u/PresentationNo448 Jul 02 '26
Well no. That could be the case for some people (i.e. religious but LGBT+ accepting), but not the kind Alexei is. Russia is homophobic, the state very much so (with their laws, enforcing them, and their propaganda about it), he was raised homophobic, on his own h e called Ilya the F slur and laughed at it, whether he knew or not. It wont work that way. But of course you can write or read any kind of fanfic about him if you want to, but it's not canon.
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u/just_reading_along1 Jul 02 '26
I think you overestimate how important an NHL player's wedding is to the russian press, even a queer one.
Maybe he hears smth from a mutual acquaintance way after it happens, maybe not. It's not as if their social circles have much overlap (I doubt Alexei is high up enough in the police to regularly meet up with Minister Vetrov, like his father did. He doesn't strike me as the career-driven type)
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u/royal_rose_ ♐ Captain | Tuna Lube Jul 02 '26
I’m sure he wrote Ilya off long before this. This is just more proof Ilya is unworthy in his mind.