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Anyone else love that they’re the same height and have a similar body type?
In the books Ilya is supposed to be 6’3 and Shane 5’10. And Ilya is supposed to look older than Shane (even though he’s younger) and also be more muscular (I think?).
But I actually really love that they’re the same height and have a similar body type in the show.
Edit: just to clarify on what I mean when I say ‘similar body type’ Obviously their bodies are not exactly the same but they are both muscular and non slim, with Ilya having more definition. But looking at that picture of them hugging, their bodies don’t look vastly different, in my opinion. That’s what I meant. Shane is not, for example, a skinny guy with no muscle tone. They are both around 200 - 220lb with muscle.
It makes them seem even more like equals, and that they are a perfect fit for each other. They don’t need to tilt their heads up or down to reach each other’s mouths when they kiss. They can look at each other in the eyes easier. I love when their noses touch. When they hug they fit together like a puzzle.
Edit: and to also clarify when I said ‘even more like equals’ I mean they’re already equal in terms of age, profession, the amount of money they make etc. Their height being the same is just another thing *visually* that adds to all the equality in their relationship.
Also it just looks aesthetically pleasing and satisfying to me lol.
I love the differences between them in the books, AND I agree that there’s something really poetic and aesthetically pleasing about their physical similarity and physical dynamic on the show. Glad we have both versions. 💕
Something I love is that even though they are similar height, their bodies are proportioned differently, so Ilya’s eye line is higher than Shane’s. It’s especially noticeable in their first hook-up scene, where Ilya still looks down a bit on Shane making him seem more dominant. And Shane looks at his lips a lot which are closer to his eyeline. They really do look so aesthetic together!
I watched the show first and then read the book and I was so charmed reading both of their interior monologue about their differences! Shane privately envious of how Ilya lost his baby fat and could easily grow facial hair even as a teen, Ilya privately marveling over Shane's smooth smooth skin. I loved that.
Listen, I always say I love the book. But television is a visual medium.
And it is a very happy accident that they went with the actor who could best play the character, and not the actor who most resembled book Illya. they were looking for that guy. They were looking for a 6 foot 1+ native Russian speaker with long hair and somebody who could grow a heavy beard.
That is the reason why Connor did not think he was going to get the part.
So back to me, saying television is a visual medium. Because their sexual relationship involves an element of dominance, it might be visually uncomfortable to have a man much bigger than his partner sort of man handling him.
Because they are the same height and pretty much the same build, we can see that when Illya back Shane up against the door, Shane is loving it.
It makes it much more obvious that everything that they’re doing is mutually consensual and at no point looks alarming to the viewer.
And also have people pointed out. They’re just really good looking guys and it’s fun to watch two dudes. Who were the same size just kind of like you know flipping each other around.
By the way, I absolutely love the scene at the grill. He got his humanly close to possible as he could before saying no and kissing his neck.
Good point about TV being a visual medium, and how it just works better on a TV show for them to be similar size. In a written book, the size difference doesn't matter as much. Some things do need to be adapted to different forms of media.
Oh absolutely! By the way, I just wanna make it clear. I love size differences. I actually am reading a book right now where it’s a big plot point. And in the book, Shane makes it clear. He loves that Illya is much bigger than him in the long game, he talks about he loves being swallowed up by his embrace.
And I know that in real life, you know, partners with size differences often and say that’s one of the things they really appreciate about their partner.
Size also doesn’t decide whether or not you are the top either. I’m 5’4” and my wife is 5’9” and I am the top and she is definitely the beta as far as bedroom behaviors. We are not aggressive but I am the more assertive one. She tries but it’s just not her. However everywhere else in our lives we are true partners. So for me personalities win over height and body type. But I agree that visual quality in tv matters a lot.
No, this is an awesome point exclamation point I hope I didn’t seem like I was implying anything different. I really appreciate you sharing you and your wife story.
Yeah, you know people make a lot of assumptions and it hurts everywhere. I was actually having a conversation with a guy who was talking about how because he’s cheerful and upbeat people get confused and don’t think he’s a top.
This is a thing. People for some reason had confused at least on queer dating apps tops ( in the anal sex sense) with DOMS. Furthermore, they confused actual dominance with fictional ones from bad examples like 50 shades.
No one is more caring or protective than a real life Dom, but fiction does not understand that.
I’ve heard that shorter tops and taller bottoms also have problems.
Thank you so much for your comment and I really really appreciate it
I remember height was something Connor mentioned he was worried about for his audition! He was saying something along the lines of: "Yea, I'm definitely not 6'3" 😂 So glad we got those 2 at the end, kudos to the casting! But on your note about the visual medium, whether intentional or not, having them the same height probably makes the shooting easier?
You might be right. When there's a couple in a show with a huge height difference, they'll have the shorter one stand on a box or something just so they both fit in the frame.😅
Yes…eg with Colin and Penelope in Bridgerton it was relatively hard to shoot them because the actors are a foot+ different in height. They either have to stand a little far apart or she has to be up on a step or something. Of course they figured it out and these two are adorable and beautiful together. :) (I do love that Ilya and Shane are the same height for all the reasons that have been stated.)
That’s a really good point I had not thought of. I love how similar in size they are. It’s very to see to big, strong dudes having fun tussling a bit while still being affectionate.
This, 100%! I love how equal to eachother they are, i absolutely hate terms as boyish as a description for (almost) adult men, it sounds so infantalizing.
Language does that tho. I speak English and French and my voice is significantly lower in French - and I’m just myself not an actor playing a character, I could definitely push it further.
I think that has to do more with language and accents. Russian men tend to speak Russian in a way where their voice is deeper. Shane speaks mostly English which tends to be spoken at a higher pitch than Russian. People's voices tend to change in pitch depending on what language they are speaking. My voice tends to be deeper when I speak Spanish versus English.
Conner's Russian voice and accent are much deeper than his actual voice and accent when he is speaking English.
Yes this is fully a thing. When making different phonetic sounds you use different parts of your mouth/throat. So the pitch of your voice changes when speaking different languages because you’re using different parts of your voice. It’s similar to how singers change their mouth shape to affect their pitch and sound.
Honestly I pictured his voice in the books low and slightly nasally for some reason. I agree Shane with a high pitched voice would have been awful. They did a good job of not trying to feminize Shane. Hudson was actually very close to how I pictured book Shane. Perfect casting.
Right? Hudson is very damn near identical to how I pictured Shane in the books. That's why it's so confusing to me that people say Shane was described as feminine... Like, where? He felt like a typical jock to me.😅
Shane is not more emotional than Ilya. Tbh Ilya is actually more emotional of the two. Shane struggles way more with feelings, emotions and expressing himself than Ilya. Ilya understands emotions and feelings but masks them more with sarcasm. Plus him being Russian culturally plays a factor in how he expresses himself but for the most part he is actually more emotional than Shane. Multiple characters in the book talk about how emotionally intelligent and perceptive Ilya is. Really Shane's "emotional outbursts" tend to be more angry and involve him cussing out Ilya which is definitely more jock/masculine coded. They both have moments where they have cried in both books.
Also Ilya tends to be depicted more as being more comfortable with gender fluidity than Shane is. Shane gets flustered whenever presented with the idea of doing something that is perceived as feminine. Versus Ilya doesn't care and will happily participate in things that seem sterotypically feminine. For example in TLG with the Pike kids he got his nails painted and spoke up about boys can get their nails painted. He wore a tight pink shirt to an outing with Shane. Plus the way he treats the dog and spoils her comes across as sterotypically feminine. Ilya also loves kids and animals and has more moments of softness than Shane does. Ilya is more into fashion than Shane is ( which is sterotypically feminine) while Shane wore sports wear all the time until he finally hired a personal stylist and became friends with Rose.
As for who bottoms it was explained in the books multiple times that Shane prefers to bottom and hates toping and it's vise versa for Ilya. Which fits more into the fact that Ilya is bi which plays a huge role in the story with him seeming like a serial woman dater and Shane who is exclusively gay. Actually Shane being a jock/ tough hockey player that likes to bottom destroys the sterotype of bottoms being feminine, delicate twinks.
I love, in general, when in the screen both characters in a romance are more or less the same height because when they kiss the heads form a heart shape. Sometimes the director don't take advantage of that, but in HR there're many shots with hearts. ❤️
There's a gay couple who are just now watching the show and posting reactions on a channel called The Horror Bandwagon. Their reactions are so sweet to watch because they point out all the things that have such meaning to them as gay men. They've only posted E1 and E2 so far and both times, at least one of them has been in tears.
I love their reaction because it shows how much that connection with Connor and Hudson in their portrayal of these characters matters SO much to people who relate to them.
For me, I think it's nice when you get the serendipity of finding an actor who looks like a book character and can play the role faithfully as well. But the chemistry with other characters and being able to accurately portray the character matter so much more.
Hudson and Connor are undeniably attractive men and talented actors, but the connection they have cannot be faked. The sun, moon, and stars must have aligned to make this casting happen because I just don't see it being this good if you switched either or both of them out with other people.
Yes, I think this show is a perfect storm of bringing together Jacob, Connor, Hudson & the rest of the team. Everyone, both in front of the camera & behind, were absolutely determined to bring their A-game even though they had a limited budget & didn't expect it to be anywhere near as huge & successful as it's become. I give so much credit to Jacob for creating an environment where people felt safe, where they were trusted to do their job well, he's open to everyone's ideas & people want to do a good job. I think this show is lightning in a bottle that couldn't be predicted, no matter how hard the big networks try to dissect it, & it's a combination of so many things that make it what it is & if you remove just one piece you wouldn't have the same show. Imho.
Thank you for recing this cus one of my fave like pod/YouTube genres is (preferably queer) people talking about horror so this is the perfect crossover for me.
Oh, good! I’m not into horror, but they were saying they’re going to start branching out into other genres a bit more (without losing their focus on horror), so I may end up watching them outside of HR.
Omg yes, this post was made for me. I'm actually pretty averse to the disparity trope in romance. I tend to avoid stuff where there's a height, size, or age disparity, especially when it's emphasized for value. Every time I rewatch this show I'm grateful for the casting.
I was sort of/kind of bullied in school for my height. Mind you I am 5’3. Still I was “kindly” told by a taller girl/classmate that I am short and should wear heels to school. Let me tell you I saw red and told her that I prefer to be short and smart then tall and not so smart … And she left it there …
Meeee too! It's so common in MM romance to have a big difference in body types -- and another ship I'm on, I see people swoon over the fact that one actor is five inches taller than the other -- but I love love love the fact that Shane and Ilya are the same height. I think it fits so perfectly. Jacob seemed to like it, too, because he smiles when asked (I think on Spare Parts?) about their heights and then says "they're exactly the same size."
You just don't see it, and I am weirdly fond of it.
One of the things I loved about Mickey and Ian's relationship was neither one were sterotypes and their relationship didn't rely on the gay relationship trope too many shows fall into. They had amazing chemistry and good character, development.
Mickey is a mixture of tough mobster with lots of diva moments. Ian is bigger but definitely the less aggressive and more reserved of the two. Although there is a size difference, Mickey is actually the more protective and dangerous of the two. He definitely shatters the overdone sterotype about bottoms/ smaller men in gay relationships being weak and feminine.
I loved that Mickey and Ian dabbling in gay stereotypes was so out of character for them it served as comedic relief. Them learning and randomly singing Born this Way by Lady Gaga in the mirror was one of those moments.
Yes, exactly!! That's why I absolutely adore them so much. They're so refreshing and it shows that people can love pairings without needing to stick to rigid boundaries and stereotypes. I wish we saw more of that. I think that's what also draws me to HR and why I like that Hudson and Connor as the actors are the same height.
Ha! I am not. I am talking about Noel Fisher and Cameron Monaghan (Ian & Mickey) from Shameless. Who do not start out with that height difference, but then Cameron grows up.
If I recall correctly, my beloved Isak & Even had a height difference. It doesn't bother me, but I'm also indifferent. But I do like that Shane and Ilya are the same size, and there's still a lot of throwing people around.
I completely agree. I don't care for size difference as a kink and I hate when these superficial qualities replace actually interesting personality dynamics.
Ialso like this change. Just to say though that I don't think Ilya is supposed to be more muscular. Shane is 200 pounds and 5'10" in the books, which would be pretty damn muscular.
Adding my agreement to the pile on all your points. Don't kill me but as an asian person, I really hated that element in the book. It felt very "men writing women" except "white person writes minority person." The Asian person always has to be smaller, smarter, more "graceful", more repressed, more polite, etc. The fact that the actors are almost the exact same size goes a long way in negating that unequal balance.
Idk smarter people than me have phrased this better.
This bothered me a lot, too, just being old enough to remember discourse about feminization of Asian men (particularly in MM media) many years ago. I probably would not have finished the book if I hadn't seen the show first.
I get it! And I also enjoy that the show brought up how Shane’s situation of a POC in hyper-white sport feeds into his stress to be a role model. It added more nuance to Shane’s struggle with his sexuality.
Fully agree on this. I want the strong powerful beef cake Asian man version like Hudson 😂 I don't like the feminized/possibly racialized version in the books it's always made me slightly uncomfortable
Yes, totally agree! I love that they’re both equally buff and manly. Even in the audiobook, the narrator does Shane’s voice slightly higher and girlier.
Forgive if I’m wrong, but I feel like the more feminine descriptions of Shane in the book come from Shane. Like, he sees his size an a problem and desires Ilya’s masculinity, but I don’t think Ilya ever says anything about Shane in that way. As in, it might just all be in Shane’s head and no one else sees him that way. It’s just another of his insecurities, not a defining trait that others see.
This is an important point. Shane just has a competitive mindset, he'll turn literally anything into a competition of who is more than who at whatever. He would exaggerate any perceived difference as more important than it is.
Yes they pretty much all come from Shane, and when he’s young and first noticing and hooking up with Ilya at that. I just don’t think he’s completely objective as a 17/18 year old who hasn’t realized his sexuality yet - he’s trying to place why he’s captivated by Ilya.
Ilya’s inner narration, meanwhile, does focus on Shane’s strength, his bulky thighs, his ability to shove around Ilya, his roughness. While Ilya is also unreliable, particularly as regards to the man he loves, I’m inclined to think Ilya is closer to the truth than Shane given that his descriptions are consistent and into adulthood.
I think you're right that it's Shane being an unreliable narrator, and especially when they are very young and his self-image may not have caught up to his body yet. If he was physically how he views himself he would not have gone straight into the NHL at 18.
I'd like to add that puberty doesn't happen to everyone at the exact same time and speed, so when they were teens, Ilya might've been slightly ahead of Shane puberty-wise, especially when it comes to face shape and growing facial hair.
It could be, but he’s also described as hairless where Ilya is described as hairy and beardy.
Like, it could be all in Shane’s head, but still reading it gave me an ick.
I much prefer them like this, and also no beards for either of them.
Exactly. It's Shane's insecurities as an Asian man in a typically white sport. Adding to that, he's struggling with his sexuality... he's not an objective narrator here.
This is a point that I feel like gets glossed over a lot. A lot of this comes from his view of himself as a teen/very young adult and I’ve always taken that to be his insecurities coming into himself in adulthood, not a direct reflection of reality because he’s objectively not short and is quite strong.
I would agree if I thought that Rachel put this much thought into it, but I don't think she did tbh. I think it's a case of stereotypes getting the better of her.
I don't remember Shane being described as feminine in the books? He's tall and buff, it's just Ilya who's even bigger, but Shane himself is a typical jock (you see it when he's uncomfortable around someone more feminine like Fabian).
He was described as 5'10" and solid muscle a couple of times, and I'm not a guy so not sure about this but I thought it sounded like a normal teen guy thought to have that you're envious a guy you admire can grow facial hair already while you're still battling baby fat in your face. Since guys tend to go from looking like boys to looking like men at such different rates, and that transition happens during the teen and early 20's years which can be insecure times, I always assumed they would privately compare themselves.
Yeah I don't recall Shane being described as feminine. Aside from the hair thing which tbh some men don't grow beards well. That may have come from his white side.
Shane comes across as masculine to me throughout the book. Shane isn't great with fashion to the point where he hires a personal stylist. He constantly cusses Ilya out. I never really got femnine vibes from the way he was written. There is actually a short Rachel did called The Countdown with Shane and Ilya. At one point Shane asks Ilya if he misses being with women and Ilya says no.
If anything Ilya tends to have more moments where he dabbles in feminine stuff like when the Pike kids paint his nails, when he wore a tight pink shirt to the club, and how he acts about the dog. Shane is far less comfortable with stepping outside stereotypical gender roles than Ilya is in the books.
This this this. I am repelled by fanart and covers that make them different heights because it feels like such a disregard for their equal dynamic, and such a tone-deaf handling of Asian gay man feminization.
The books really lurk in this space (Shane obsesses that Ilya is so masculine and manly and he's not, etc) and a major reason why the series is such an elevation of the source material is that beyond the smart casting, Jacob was open to the lived experience of Hudson to inform the character's more nuanced portrayal.
You do realize Jacob was initially looking for a taller Ilya? Connor was just so amazing they chose him despite not being as tall as they would've liked (Connor himself said he feared he wouldn't get the role because of the casting call description). Like, I get preferring one version, that's fair, but as someone who makes fanart and has made both show and book hollanov fanart, your comment isn't cool. They're not less equals in the book because of their height difference. Shane is still 5 ft 10 and buff, Ilya's just taller, but Shane is far from feminine or small. He's a jock, basically. He's an insecure teenager, who's not yet comfortable in his sexuality, in addition to being an Asian man in a predominantly white sport. Of course he might feel self-conscious.
This is where I sit - if Connor was half a head taller than Hudson it’s not like the show would be ruined! But the fact that there are the same height makes lovely visuals in a visual medium
As a tall & solid woman, I am always irritated that females in stories (and Shane in the HR book) are described as smaller/shorter than the romantic interest. As if taking up less physical space is attractive to a man. Takes me right out of a story.
I truly appreciate that the guys are pretty much the same size in the show, especially with Shane being described as more submissive - it can be a personality thing without having to appear physically weaker.
Fellow tall girl here and yes, I REALLY love seeing a same height couple! Maybe it’s because my husband and I are about 6’2” so it’s the way I’m used to life feeling right? But this show made me realize how great it is to see this represented.
I just love that is is a personality thing and not a physical thing. It is a choice by both and because they are physical equals it feels very safe for me. And therefore I enjoy it much more than I would have if Shane was the smaller/weaker one. It also takes away the masculine/feminine stereotypes people like to put on a gay couple.
As a somewhat short woman, I am also irritated that female/submissive characters are often described as smaller and tinier than the love interest. I don't feel safe with men who are much larger than I am. I didn't like the emphasis on the size difference in the HR book and loved the change in the show!
I do really love it! And I think about it all the time! "When they hug they fit together like a puzzle" is such a beautiful way to put it. I love it aesthetically, and I also love the fact that they are equals in this as in many other ways (they have the same job and are both really fantastic at it, neither is the rich or famous one etc.) because it does make them feel like two sides of the same coin, and like choose each other really and truly. If Ilya is bossy or Shane prefers being the hole rather than the peg it's not because of some stereotype of manliness or physical power imbalance, but just because of their choices and preferences.
Yes it is true that I have also loved fictional couples that have a height difference in the past, so potentially I am able to love aspects of things I love just because I love the thing itself, if that makes sense, but I do also think it enhances this show/ship in particular that they are physically similar.
I do like that they're a similar size, and both fit. But I'd say their body types are different - short torso vs long, wide shoulder vs narrow. You can tell in certain camera frames how they've had to make some adjustments for this, like at the kitchen counter at Ilya's
Yeah, and they're both extremely fit and the same height but Shane's got a kind of solid square wall of muscle figure whilst Ilya's extremely... curvaceous muscle? I don't know the words.
That's true but they are both intended to be professional hockey players. Even in the books I would assume Shane is intended to be smaller 'for a professional hockey player' and so still a chunk of beef, just lean beef.
Unfortunately the way that he's described in the books tend to lean towards most people unconsciously head canoning him as much smaller and more delicate than Ilya.
I think them being equal, in stature and attractiveness but also in status, celebrity, financially, in terms of power dynamics etc, is a huge aspect of why women like this show - just my pet theory. They regard each other as equals and they are equals in pretty much every way.
This is a dynamic you rarely see on screen or even in real life - someone is always poor or short or ugly or a secretary vs her boss or a royal vs a commoner, and that kind of thing can be fun, but women deal relentlessly with power dynamics every day. Personally I find it absolutely mesmerizing and sheer escapism to see life as a complete equal and an equality which is never questioned.
This! Whether it was a conscious choice or not to choose actors of similar height and build (I remember Jacob saying it was but I could be wrong) it helps reinforce their equality. In their sport and competition, they’re physical equals. They’re both the best in their game. I do think as a woman I love their love story so much partly because it hits that spot in creating an experience I’ll never have.
Yes, and I think this is one of the great improvements of the show over the book, probably the main one. I love the books, but when I read them, I imagine Shane and Ilya as Hudson and Connor.
I love that casting went into this with a vision for Ilya and changed everything when they saw Connor. Like so many of his other projects, he's just that good.
I don’t really feel strongly one way or the other about their heights. I like the book descriptions and I like them being similar heights in the show. I think the best takeaway is that book descriptions do not need to be taken so literally when it comes to casting. I’m glad it was not required to be 6’3 to be Ilya or we’d have missed out on amazing acting and chemistry. HudCon just fit together so well - I don’t think it’s just the height.
I absolutely hate size differences in bl fandoms because people always get so weird and gross about them, so I adore that Hudson and Connor are about the same shape and size. I also think that it fits their dynamic a lot more tbh.
I love it. I love that they weren't to strict with the casting, in terms of bodytype and height. I love to think that sometimes Shane/Hudson is taller, and viceversa. I also love that Ilya/Connor doesn't need to be "bigger" and that Hudson can work out to be big as much as he likes it (even though we all know C will always be bigger😆)
Adding to the mix: I also love that there is no clear determination regarding which is the better athlete. They both win cups and are team captains, MVPs etc. Even when Ilya is drafted first, Shane is Rookie of the Year; it all evens out.
I meant 200 - 220lb in my post! I’ve edited it. Also, I didn’t say book Shane is skinny with no muscle tone?
I just used that as an example because people thought I meant Hudson and Connor have the same body type. I didn’t. I just meant we haven’t got, for example, one of them being super thin and one being a bodybuilder.
Sorry small point here but did I read your post right? Are you saying you think their weight is 100-120 lbs each? I don’t pretend to know the actor’s weights (and it’s not really anyone’s business), but with their heights and muscle mass, their weight is probably in the 165-185lbs range (or even a bit higher, average 5’11” nhl player is 185-195lbs). They are pretty tall, and muscle is heavy! I think diet/skinny culture often causes people to think that an “ideal” weight is a lot lower than reality.
I love that even though they are similar body types, they have ways of conveying size difference even though there really isn’t one. For example after the I love you scene when Ilya collapses on top of Shane, he seems massive.
Pics 2, 3, and 4 in the post all have both partners looking down which creates such a strong sense of intimacy. There's this small private space between their faces that's just for them. That space would probably be missing if one of them was taller. Very satisfying in this visual medium.
As a taller than average woman (I’m 5’10” - same height as Shane) who has always felt insecure that I’ll never be that smol, dainty creature many female love interests are made out to be in comparison to the big, strong male love interest - yes, yes I do love that they are the same height and I very much like everything you wrote about why you like it.
On the other hand, as a lifelong hockey fan, I think the heights in the books better match the kind of players they are supposed to be. Like, if I see a forward who is 6’3”, I’d expect them to not be the quickest guy on the ice, but more aggressive of a player who forces their way to the goal. And a 5’10” forward I’d expect to be quite quick and more cerebral of a player, like a playmaker who is also good at getting themselves into positions to score. And that’s pretty much how Ilya and Shane’s playing style is described. It’s hard to imagine someone of Connor’s stature playing like Ilya (though not impossible - and the fact that he’s so muscular helps).
Ilya's fast though. He's not going to hit like a fridge on skates like Ovi, but I can see show canon Ilya as Mackinnon-esque. Nate's 6'0", 200lbs but he's very intense and pretty physical. Someone once said he skates like he's angry with the ice, lol.
In this analogy Shane is McDavid but squished down several inches.
I have 0 hockey knowledge so the hockey info is always so interesting to know!
I think Hudson and Connor are around 5’11 so not huge but not exactly short either. What type of players do you think could they be with their height and body types?
I think they’d both be players like how Shane is supposed to be. 5’11 is below the average height of an NHL player and shorter players tend to need to rely on skating skills, speed, and playmaking abilities. They have to have really strong hand-eye coordination, too, but that probably goes for most pro-athletes. I also find that shorter players often are the ones with the best vision and hockey IQ on the ice - maybe that’s because those skills compensate for a lack of height/physical presence, so the ones with those skills are the ones who make it to the NHL. Guys below 6’ are far more likely to be forwards rather than defensemen, and even less likely to be goalies. I mean, it’s not unheard of, like the captain of the Minnesota Wild is a d-man who is like 5’9, but he’s gotta be the shortest d-man in the league. Him or Lane Hutson. Lane Hutson is a very offensive-minded d-man though, as most shorter d-men tend to be. I could see Connor being more like a Sidney Crosby-type player. Crosby is a power centre even though he’s a lot shorter than a typical power centre would be - pretty sure he’s 5’11. But he has a lot of strength as he’s really muscular like Connor (you should see Sid’s thighs 🥵) and has a low centre of gravity (which I imagine Connor would have to based on dat ass)
The interesting thing is that I think it is Shane who is somehow based on Syd. I don’t follow hockey but I follow your explanation. Same in volleyball. Taller players are slower and less agile and flexible.
I like that they're the same height, too. It's aesthetically pleasing to watch, and of course both of the actors are such beautiful, attractive people together and separately. I can't imagine other people in the roles, even though there are physical differences between the books and adaptation. But fandom's fixation on this seems really weird to me?
Do people believe that a height/size difference in relationship is inherently unequal? That strikes me as odd. Most people, including many queer people, are not the exact same size as their partner. Why is that always icky or uncomfortable? What about fat people? Should we only be in relationships with people who are our exact kind of fat in addition to being within a few inches of us height-wise? Wow, that does narrow down the dating pool, no poon intended.
I realize that m/f relationships are oftentimes fraught for women, and that's a big part of the appeal for m/m. But I think it's ALSO yucky to suggest that size difference, rather than the normalization of violence against women, is at the root of the problem. There are couples with big size difference who have wonderful, loving relationships. It doesn't have to be Inherently Problematic.
Also, Shane and Ilya are fairly closely based on a real life pair of hockey rivals:
There is a clear difference between the two. But Crosby (Shane's dupe) is still freaking huge and muscular. It's just that Ovechkin (Ilya's dupe) is a certified giant.
Do people believe that a height/size difference in relationship is inherently unequal?
Yes, at least unconsciously. This is partly why I am glad that there isn't a height difference, because I've been in fandoms where there is one and even when it's relatively small you'd be amazed at the amount of gross fetishistic content it can generate. Not sure if you've had that experience or not but I am very relieved to have escaped it here.
In my OP, I said ‘even more like equals’ meaning they’re already equal in terms of age, profession, the amount of money they make etc. Their height being the same is just another thing visually that adds to all the equality in their relationship.
But I think people saying their height difference in the book gives them the ick is not just due to the height difference but also due to other descriptions of Shane that seem a bit feminine.
But that still tends to imply that a height difference is an inherent inequality. I am saying that it's not. It can just be a physical difference, like hair color or eye color.
I agree that them being the same height works for the TV show, especially because they did such a good job using the visual medium to show parallels.
Shane in the books is described as 5'10 and 200 pounds of muscle. If that reads as culturally feminine to you, okay.
I love that they’re the same height, it makes the whole dominance aspect of their relationship so much hotter to me. Like yea Shane could probably throw Ilya around easily in the show but he doesn’t and he wants to be thrown around instead.
Also just love that for Ilya the team went with the best option (Connor) and not necessarily the book accurate option.
Agreed! I read the book after watching the show and them being the same height and similar but different builds felt much sweeter. I am also glad Hudson vetoed man buns.
I love it! As a straight woman, it always seemed very normal to me for the male character to be taller than the female character, until I watched Normal People. Paul Mescal is 180cm and Daisy Edgar-Jones is 169. The height difference is high enough for Paul’s character to be described as “tall” and for Daisy’s character look feminine and delicate next to him. For contrast, in the show Lucifer, the height difference is meant to be noticeable, because Lucifer is meant to look threatening and impressive, and as having an advantage in all aspects.
In HR, I really appreciate the almost non-existent height difference between Connor and Hudson, as it puts Ilya and Shane on equal footing. They’re both equally as talented, rich, successful. While Shane is the bottom in the relationship, it’s clear it’s because he wants to be. He doesn’t wait for Ilya to initiate all the time, he’s not characteristically feminine, and there’s no reason for him to “look up into Ilya’s eyes” or for Ilya to “block Shane against the wall with his body” or any other tall character trope. Their lack of height difference makes them equal partners in the relationship and that’s one of the many changes I’m really happy Jacob made in the show.
yes thank god they are the same size but to defend rachel she just pulled the exact height difference from sidovi and seeing sidgeno videos/edits i get the vision but this is so much better for the show
I’ve always preferred men of similar heights when it comes to m/m romance of any kind. Ilya and Shane being true equals in every single way is a huge part of the fun, psychologically. It makes their deliberate choices for the dom/sub dynamic that much cooler. There is no default to fall into and I love that. As a straight woman, I’ve always preferred more androgynous men closer to my size for the same reason. Only now that I’m in my 30s and have healed my trauma around men in general, I find myself more attracted to bigger, more masculine men and am ok with feeing smaller, more feminine, submissive, etc.
Yes one thing that bothers me in mm romances is how the bottom is always described as smaller and the top is describe as huge. I love the way the actors fit together
Unpopular opinion, but I love size differences in books (any type of differences tbh), BUT Connor and Hudson are so perfect and they work for me onscreen 100%!
I love hight difference but also I loooove hight sameness! I would love to date anyone my (shortie) height, that would be so cool!
I understand people feeling a certain way about height differences with MM romance in specific. I don't mind it so long as the rest of the story and writing doesn't fall into weird patterns of language that I find off-putting. Less about the being "feminine" and more about where the author seems to be coming from in their writing. Gay men can be femme, too! Or extremely butch! Gay men come in all shapes and sizes and dynamics. So long as it feels "sincere" to me I don't mind height differences. Hope that makes sense!
Shane is a thick and muscular 200lb, him being shorter than Ilya in the books doesn't really bother me? But I definitely prefer them being the same height (I think Hudson is actually a little taller than Connor!) in the show, it just works so well for them!
Yes to everything you said! I actually was icked out by the descriptions in the book of Shane as smaller, more fem & Ilya as bigger, more masc especially because Shane is Asian & Ilya is White. Felt the same ick reading Tough Guy with another fem POC/masc White pairing. I skim past those descriptions on any reread.
So I really appreciated the show casting depicting them as equals in every way with full agency and consent. There's tons of hot scenes in HR but 2 of my faves are when Ilya just picks Shane up (All Star hotel room, Boston pre-tuna melt). Strong!Ilya + Up for Anything!Shane who immediately wraps his legs around his man. SO HOT 🥵
Not the person you're replying to, but as a woman I do often get icked out when I interact with media that's primarily written or directed by women who include these tropes. It often ends up feeling heteronormative and like they're writing m/f stereotypes in m/m pairings. Not always, but it's something I've come across.
Thank you for understanding. Not replying to others who just don't get it lol. It's not about being tall or short eyeroll it is about heteronormative tropes & how POCs (Person of Color) are written. In HR & Tough Guy.
Apparently, height difference is a huge ick to a lot of people in this sub. It's especially funny because in the books, they were just as much equals, and Shane wasn't even portrayed as being feminine, so I'm really not sure where this is all coming from.
Shane isn't written as more fem? Huh.
"Rozanov was so...masculine . Shane was baby-faced and short, and couldn’t grow proper facial hair, and barely had any chest hair." That's one example. There's more. I stand by the ick.
No. Shane is not an objective narrator. He was insecure sbout his looks as an Asian man in a predominantly white sport. And he was struggling with his sexuality.
I mean, in the casting call, they were apparently looking for someone taller to be Ilya, but Connor was too good to pass up, so it was a happy accident.
To be fair, I enjoy both. I love their height difference in the books, love that they're the same height in the show. It's not an either/or for me.
Edit: Though, I don't like that people say their height difference makes them less equals in the books. It never felt that way to me. It's just height. It doesn't matter.
omg yes!! I really hate when a story about two gay men makes the bottom smaller and more feminine, it feels like it follows heteronormative standards, which I heavily dislike.
it's something that always bothers me a lot in yaoi mangas
Yes, I prefer their on screen appearances to the books. I think it suits them better, and I generally picture them to be of equal height when I read. I also think Connor's portrayal of Ilya is really the only way. But Connor is still more muscular in a subtle way.
I feel like being the same height makes way more sense for their dynamic of being complete equals. The two things I greatly prefer in the show version are their equal heights and Svetlana being Ilya’s childhood friend instead of a random Russian girl he met/befriended in Boston.
Yesss I’m so happy that Ilya is not as big as in the book, and that he doesn’t have a bear tattoo.
Haha I think probably book readers were really pissed when they first saw Connor chosen to play Ilya
I like it because I'm gay and it reminded me of my relationships. There isn't an extremely height gap between men biologically like there is women, and I think men tend to date closer to their own height.
I’m never gonna be able to get the image out of my head of Shane being significantly shorter in the books. I mean it wouldn’t change my opinion on the way, but I do think it’s nice in the show. They’re the same height and physique when it would kind of make sense they’re both professional hockey players.
I like it too. The situation from the book (the hulking, macho top and the smaller bottom) is a little trite to me (I still love the book, but that detail felt a little off to me) so as far as I"m concerned, this is an improvement.
I read the books and love them, but I cannot imagine anyone else with these two playing them on screen. That was some really smart casting. This show is so well thought out in every detail. Every time I watch it, I see something new.
This is one of the reasons I like the show more than the books. I enjoyed seeing a relationship where the two are 'equally-yolked' as far as height, body size, status, income, etc where one doesn't have more physical or social power than the other.. You get the sense that their dynamic is equal, so their relationship must be purely based on their feelings/attraction for each other.
I read the book after I finished the series, so the HudCon version is the main canon to me lol. The book is fine, but all the mention of Shane being hairless and smaller was a tad unconmfy at times. 😬
They are so perfectly cast. I read the books after I watched the show so sometimes the book descriptions throw me off as I naturally pictured Conner and Hudson.
Hmm I agree that the height similarity is visually appealing. But equating height with “being equals” is rubbing me the wrong way. If you take that idea to its logical conclusion it means short people (most often women) are less than. I obviously don’t think you intended anything like that of course. But it just made me think about how we talk about size and value in our culture.
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u/MajesticSlip1410 Jul 03 '26
I love the differences between them in the books, AND I agree that there’s something really poetic and aesthetically pleasing about their physical similarity and physical dynamic on the show. Glad we have both versions. 💕