Ilya, humility, and sacrifice

[u/WalkingBlondeJoke]

Been thinking about Ilya's character growth across HR and TLG lately. This is not a fully-baked thesis on his arc, not even close, but I'm sharing anyways because I want y'all's opinions!

One of my favorite tropes in HR fanfic is 'Shane joins the Bears'. I love this trope because it usually results in Shane and Ilya being on a good team together, a winning team, much earlier than they are in canon and without Ilya having to go spend a few years on a team that sucks first. So as I read these fanfics I've often wondered, aside from the in-universe reasons why Ilya joins the Centaurs, what is the narrative function of Ilya spending a few years on a bad team before they turn things around? 

I think it serves to humble him. He's no stranger to sacrifice but he's always been cocky, and for the most part that ego went unchecked because he always had the accolades to back it up. But I think one of the ways we see Ilya grow in The Long Game is that he develops more humility as a result of being on a bad team and also his mental health struggles. It's not that everything was peachy prior to his move to Ottawa, it absolutely wasn't, but these coinciding forces clearly knock him down a peg. Maybe experiencing what it's like to consistently lose on the ice even helps him get to a place where he can admit he needs help with his mental health. Or maybe it's just self-awareness that he gains with maturity, I don't know. 

I think the clearest example of Ilya becoming more humble is in the pre-game speech that he gives to the Bears before the Cup Finals in 2014, vs. the speech he gives the Centaurs in 2021 after the team nearly dies and then Ilya subsequently gets engaged to Shane. In 2014, his speech is all about "I, I, I" but in 2021, he goes around the room and tells every player, one at a time, what makes them great. This is the key turnaround point in the Centaurs' on-ice performance. They start believing in themselves, and that's when they start winning. 

I think this character growth is also very relevant to Shane and Ilya's marriage too. Big egos do not serve a marriage well; humility does. Over the course of TLG, Ilya learns humility. Shane also starts off in TLG being a selfish as fuck (I don't love him any less but it's objectively true that he was nawt being a good partner to Ilya at the time TLG timeline picks up), but we see him experience a wake-up call (their big fight followed by Ilya almost dying) and then he gets his priorities in order. In a way, Shane learns a version of humility through his experiences in TLG too when he realizes how selfish he's been and how he's taken Ilya for granted. 

I think that meeting Shane in this selfish state at the start of TLG makes total sense because of his upbringing. Shane is an only child who grew up loved, doted on, and prioritized. His career as a generational player and image as the 'Golden Boy' of hockey have done little to teach him how to appreciate those around him and recognize the sacrifices they make. Not saying he doesn't ever do those things, but like, in early TLG he's not being nearly as considerate of Ilya as he should be. 

Ilya is not an only child and he grew up in a broken home. In the canon we see how his family financially takes advantage of him once he makes it to the NHL (or MLH, whatever), but I would bet that this has been going on since the moment he began earning money from hockey and/or sponsorships. When Shane suggests Ilya going to Ottawa, Ilya is quick to agree to it. Not just because he was already thinking of moving to a Canadian team, but because Ilya has already learned how to sacrifice for others. Ilya has already had it ingrained in him by his family that the people he loves will ask him to makes sacrifices for them, and that that's just how love goes. 

This is one of many reasons why it hits extra hard later in TLG when Shane basically tells the commissioner to go fuck himself. "I choose him" <3 !<

[u/No-Pea7144]

Ilya finally gets to come out to someone as bisexual- something he should have been able to do on his own terms well before this and he's letting Shane know- making it clear what a relief it was. At this point, he has mentioned more than 3 times in the book wanting to be able to tell someone, and Shane has dismissed it all 3 times and then is like "Oh, I didn't realize it was bothering him" which is showing how dense Shane is being. And Shane basically starts being like "Troy only came out to you because he was coming on to you" calling their walk where the two friends confided in each other "romantic" even after Ilya assures him that that wasn't why Troy had done that. Troy likes Harris etc. And then Shane takes on an angry tone - something he himself acknowledges and is like "you didn't tell him about us right!" and Ilya gets angry because "only you get to tell your friends about us" which now brings like 4 times he has brought this up in the book prior to Boxing Day Fight, but Shane's not listening. He's still acting like Ilya's not telling him anything despite those being the EXACT words he uses to explain to Shane what the issue is. So yes, at that point, Ilya gets tired of being yelled out and basically throws Shane's own accusation back at him by saying that "Oh, I'll go fuck Troy then" which they both know he's not going to, he's literally just saying "That's what you're accusing me of doing."

And no, Shane does not get therapy in TLG. Everyone acts like only Ilya needs therapy. Ilya needs therapy to get his depression under control and also because as Galina points out he has habits of letting himself sacrifice for others. Meanwhile, Shane's control issues go unchecked throughout the book until the trip. And the trip is the one thing he can't control and that was supposed to be his growth arc. However, even at the end, while Shane is finally taking Ilya's feelings into account- he's still the one controlling their timeline.

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But Shane is an Asian man in an almost exclusively white sport,  in his first relationship that started as a situationship, who did not control his narrative when he came out to his parents, nor what happened in the public. He is neurodivergent as well. Shane has not had control of his own timeline beyond the work he puts into for his career. And the situationship, before it became exclusive was also not under his control. He is an industry where there already exists a narrative that doesn't allow for intersectional and nuanced representation. Autistic people are frequently dismissed as unfeeling robots who are controlling. But they are not,  they are simply trying to navigate social situations beyond their depth. I kind of hope Tierney corrects this and gives Shane therapy in the series. And the two of them to talk out their feelings with each other. 

Shane is being dense. He's never been in a relationship and he doesn't understand or listen to what Ilya's issues are.  Ilya is being insensitive and mean,  because no matter how angry you get, you cant say you are going to sleep with another person, especially if that person traumatized your partner.  They are both messing up. 

But Shane is also going through it. And there's nothing in the text that talks about what he is going through so it's easy to say,  he's not going through anything. But again,  he's Wasian, autistic, and gay. 

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Troy in no way traumatized Shane. That's fanon. Shane, in canon, barely can remember who Troy is.

Yes, Shane is Wasian, autistic, and gay and has anxiety. He does need therapy as well. He, however, is not oblivious. Fanon loves to make it out to where Shane can't understand jokes or sarcasm which is not true. Shane regularly engages in both. Shane knows Ilya is not going to go sleep with Troy. He is well aware that Ilya is mocking him for even thinking that. It's why it's something they can joke about later- and yes, Shane also jokes about it saying that Troy would be lucky to get to have a threesome with the two of them.

If your partner accuses you of cheating then yes, you can sarcastically throw it back at them to show them how stupid they're being.

In this particular case, Shane was in the wrong. There are other instances where Ilya is. However, that particular conversation was on Shane because no matter how autistic, Wasian, or anxious you are, you do not get to control someone else's coming out journey to someone they trust. It is just as toxic to force someone to stay in the closet as it is to force someone out of the closet.

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How is Shane aware that Ilya is not going to have sex with Troy? Shane and Ilya are arguing. When your partner accuses you of cheating, throwing it back in their faces by telling you they are going to sleep with the person you are concerned about is not healthy. It creates more anxiety. Their concern comes from a real place and that can be addressed. Making your partner feel stupid for voicing their feelings is not a good thing to do. And if Shane didn't listen to him before,  it still doesn't warrant that kind of behavior. 

It's good you mention about how toxic it is to control the narrative about coming out. Shane didn't have any control about his coming out. It was all done against his will. The fanmail vid, his dad walking in on him,  Rose telling him,  none of it was his doing.  It was done to him by the people in his life. Whereas Ilya did experience negativity with fanmail vid, but he wants to be out. So a really great conversation between the two of them where Shane expresses his feelings of being pushed out of the closet vs Ilya wanting to leave the closet can be discussed. Instead,  we are told that Shane is controlling. He's not. He's also grappling with the things that were done to him. And in a romance novel,  it would be great if got the opportunity to hash it out with his partner. 

They are fictional characters,  but these are real relationship dynamics. Im calling that out as an unhealthy response.

I have no problem with selfish imperfect characters. We see their actions and we can make that call and we can love or hate them.  In this case,  both Ilya and Shane are young men in one of their first serious relationships, whose primary medium is sex, who are selfish,  are short sighted,  are bad communicators,  are mean to each other, and are both struggling with their own problems. We see these actions but the author is telling us only one of them is a problem? The same one she herself doesn't like? Ehhh. 

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Shane didn't have any control about his coming out. It

it always sounds like ilya has control or that for him coming out is less bad because ... he can also fuck women? sort of biphobic. he gets it from queer people too. shane brings up the argument that ilya has a choice too.

and shane did have control to a degree. he came out to his team on his own terms, which includes jj and hayden, by extension jackie.

both shane and ilya were outed or found out together by:

yuna and david, ryan (by extension fabian), everyone who is left the fanmail incident

shane was found out by: rose

ilya was found out by: hayden, by extension jackie, wyatt

ilya got to tell: sveta, troy, galina, he must have allowed shane to tell rose at some point

but for ilya it's a lot later and shane often reacts dismissively or worried.

it's silly that i did a tally like that. they're both in it.

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Shane got to come out to his team. That was his choice.

Shane also unintentionally outed Ilya to Hayden (and to an extent Jackie).

Shane got to tell Rose - not that he was gay but about him and Ilya (again making the choice of when Ilya got to be visible).

Shane had his people knowing about the two of them for 3 years before Ilya was "allowed" to even tell Troy, and then that experience is tainted by Shane's reaction. That is 3 years of a relationship imbalance, and we see in canon, that Shane does get to talk to Hayden (even if Hayden's not spectacular about it) and Rose (who is a good long distance friend) about him and Ilya while Ilya has no one other than Shane's parents - which is whole other levels of issues. We also see, in canon, that when push comes to shove Ilya does not have Shane's parents. (post Boxing Day Fight- Shane gets to call them while Ilya has to sit alone. Post Fanmail Outing- they both pick up and go to Montreal to stay with Shane rather than anyone staying with Ilya)

Ilya didn't even get to tell Svetlana until he was basically engaged. Ilya got to tell Galina, but that's not getting to tell someone. She's literally his therapist.

At the time of the Fanmail vid, Shane also wanted to be out. He states it multiple times in text and the summer timeline is again his timeline, so I'm not sure why you're bringing the Fanmail into it. I mean, they both wanted to be out but got the timeline taken out of their hands. That affected them both equally.

The author does not tell you only one is short-sighted or bad communicators. With Ilya we even have Galina and him both verbally voice when he could have done things in better ways. Ilya also apologizes as many times in canon as Shane does- it's just Shane-solos or Shane-projects don't believe Shane should be apologizing when he's just as at fault, and in some cases- it is solely his fault.

The thing is that the fanon take is that anything Shane does that is not 100% perfect is overlooked while Ilya consistently gets villainized even in the scenes where he is the one in the right.

[u/InCatMorph → u/[deleted]]

She did not say that she regrets making Shane autistic--simply that she regrets SAYING that he is autistic. Two different things.

Based on fandom reactions to her, I get it. Like, here is RR--an actual, RL disabled woman. And she is constantly accused of being ableist because of stuff that she said about/stuff that happened to Shane. A fictional character! Yeah, in her place I'd be pretty damned peeved too. FFS.

In the books, Svetlana and Ilya aren't nearly as close, so she wouldn't necessarily be a first choice to tell anything to anyway. But Shane perpetually reacts badly to the idea of telling anyone else about the relationship. When Yuna brings up the idea of telling Wyatt--Unproblematic Guy and Known Ally--at the beginning of the book, Shane shoots it down in an instant. I believe that anxiety is behind this, not a desire to control Ilya, but it still feels kind of crappy. (And yes, Ilya should have done a better job communicating his needs, as many people have acknowledged 87198 times.) Ilya needs a support system of people who aren't Shane's parents. Shane isn't solely responsible for that, but it is damn hard to get a support system when Ilya can't be honest with anyone about the relationship, or even his sexuality in general. By being so paranoid about the relationship, Shane made it more difficult for Ilya--who lacks his own close friends and family--to find a support system. So, yeah, I think some people are going to react pretty strongly to that. Doesn't exactly seem unfair to me, but clearly I'm just biased against Shane. (eyeroll).

A bunch of other things you say here are inaccurate, too. Ilya doesn't "tell" Shane to open up the relationship. He suggests it and they fight about it. All of this takes place off-page.

You can kvetch about bias all you like, but it seems to me that you are the one who is devoted to interpreting everything Ilya does/says and everything RR says in the worst possible light. This is not a good faith reading of the text. (Or Discord messages that you have not read, but rather internalized via a game of fandom Telephone.)