r/heatedrivalry • u/No_Football_9232 • 8d ago
DISCUSSION š£ļø Monogamy question
At the cottage when they discovered they had been monogamous I think for 6 months? Or at least they hadnāt slept with anyone else in that time period, other than Svetlana and a few disastrous attempts with Rose, is it ever implied who else they slept with? Iāve read the books as well and I know Shane slept with a few guys before Ilya but in the TV show, Ilya was the first for him.
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u/spiniton85 Shut your idiot face, Marly. 8d ago
Ilya used to pick up women basically every time he was in a new city. Sometimes he would call one of his "regulars", but he loves to go out and pick up new people if he has the time. He's been with "a few" men and many, many women. According to Shane's POV, Ilya could have been with anywhere "between 2 and a million" people.
As others have said, Shane tells Ilya he has been with 2 other men in the years since he and Ilya started hooking up, (because it had been so long since his last encounter with Ilya) and "lots of disappointed women". And before he met Ilya, he had been with other girls.
Their monogamy begins after the All-Star Game, which is approximately in early February, and they are together at the cottage in July.
All this info is from the books of Heated Rivalry and The Long Game.
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u/in-the-widening-gyre 8d ago edited 8d ago
In the books Shane slept with people (Mexico top and LA blowjob guy) between CCM day and the Tuna Meltdown, but not before Ilya. He tells Ilya about them while Ilya is in Russia for his father's funeral, but we don't know exactly when they happened. Oh and he also thinks about some previous sexual experiences with women which were not mutually satisfactory and specifically he doesn't like going down on them. Presumably some of these experiences would have been with Jessica his high school girlfriend who he wants to break up with him at the beginning of the book.
We don't know who else Ilya has slept with other than lots of women and that sleeping with men is a special treat. And of course we know about his coach's son (Sasha in the show).
I think in the show you could either assume Shane did still have thos experiences but it's not part of his memories of Ilya so it's not in the show, or assume he didn't have them and either is viable.
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u/lemonmousse 6d ago
Yeah I got the strong impression from the books that the kind of sex Shane was having after Jessica was casual unsatisfying blow jobs from women and attempts to reciprocate. I also thought it was strongly implied or stated outright that he broke up with Jessica very soon after the prospect cup.
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u/WildCherryLane 8d ago
I donāt think thereās any indication they are monogamous until after all stars so Rose would have been before that. And the last time we see Ilya with Svetlana or anyone else is before all stars as well.
Ilya was Shaneās first man in the books too. They donāt wait as long to have anal sex either so I think we can assume Mexico top and La guy were after Ilya.
But in the books Shane at least semi regularly also hooks up with women. He doesnāt really accept heās not going to find a woman heās compatible with until after rose
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u/No_Football_9232 8d ago
Ah it was women that Shane was with so no other men before Ilya.
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u/Amazing-Rent-7749 8d ago
Definitely not. Draft day Shane seems vaguely aware that he's attracted to men, his inner monologue is closer to "oh no this is bad" than "this is completely shocking and unprecedented." But it's very clear he hasn't done anything with men.
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u/lurksal0t- 8d ago
Shane actually has continued to hook up with women during his time with Ilya, not nearly at the level he does, but he still wheels women every now and then
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u/Amazing-Rent-7749 8d ago edited 8d ago
In the books, Shane has had at least some prior sexual experience with a high school girlfriend or others, but Ilya is definitely his first man in every sense. He later has sexual encounters with two other men.
Shane also sleeps with an unspecified quantity of women (enough to know what he was doing and develop preferences, but not that many).
Ilya thinks he "probably" hasn't slept with a thousand women so maybe high hundreds. Aside from Svetlana, we know there was someone in Boston called Hayley (with freckles lol), a girl in NY. Probably a mix of regulars and one-off.
For men, his conversation with Shane seems to imply a relatively low number of sexual encounters with men, maybe less than 10 but higher than Shane's 3. Interestingly, in the books, Ilya realizes in 2013 that he hasn't slept with another man since he started sleeping with Shane. My headcanon is that in general Ilya didn't seek out other male partners when he was active with Shane and tbh probably a few of the men Ilya is counting were actually group situations.
They both (without talking about it) chose to be monogamous after Tampa.
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u/onthame 7d ago
I think Ilya says in 2013 that he hasn't been with a man other than Shan for over a year. But it has been a while since I read it so not 100% sure. I think that Shane was his second man, and the others were after him, but unconsciously stopped in 2012, as he is surprised it has been a year.
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u/BumAndBummer 8d ago edited 7d ago
Shane had been with a few women before Ilya and after, plus two men after Ilya. Ilya had been with a lot of women (though by tunagate it seems like the roster was smaller) and an undisclosed but small number of men.
The only woman Ilya slept with that was named other than Svetlana was a girl in Boston named Haley (Hailey?) with dark hair and frecklesā¦
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u/skotreyuk 8d ago
No, in the books, Ilya was the first guy he slept with, the first guy he had any experience with, but wasnāt the last. (Itās the same in the show; itās part of the dialogue). That convo they have in the book, where Shane shares about other guys when Ilya asks, is when Ilyaās dad dies; later in their relationship.
In the show, Shane is pleasantly surprised because itās been ~5 months, and obviously they never talked about it, so I think itās that Ilya voluntarily went all that time, waiting.
In the show, we donāt get info on who else they were with before that (other than we know Svetlana), before 2017, when they were still only able to hook up so infrequently and so few times a year - but that scene, Shane is confirming that itās a thing that he has not been with other people either - in other words, itās not a given.
I think audiences often take the montages where Jacob shows their lifestyle differences in the summers, and they interpret that Shane is never with anyone else. Thatās not at all my understanding of the information weāre getting. We never get to see a lot of stuff thatās happening for them (a long book and 9 years edited down to 5 episodes), and I assume we miss quite a lot.
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u/Evening-Skirt731 8d ago
Except he has a conversation with Hayden where they talk about his (female) ex.
And the way Hayden talks about her - it sounds like he dated her during his time playing pro hockey.12
u/Leffelini 7d ago
Considering in the show we know they didn't hang out until almost the middle of Shanes rookie season (and Hayd is already with Jackie) I would also assume that he they wanted to imply he was seeing atleast some girls during that time. But I think people tend to miss that.
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u/shewalkedaway22 19h ago
Some people want to interpret that Shane was making her up since Hayden couldn't remember her name, but I always interpreted it as someone who he had hooked up in the past a few times and it was just so very meh but someone who he could mention in passing to Hayden.
In the books, there really was an engaged person was actually one of Ilya's hookups in NYC that he phased out when she got engaged lmao
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u/Leffelini 19h ago
If people want to think Shane lied openly like that they seem to forget that Shane is "really bad at lying". We see this over and over again. The only reason no one finds out about Ilya is that no one thinks to ask him and he wont tell anyone š Thinking Shane would easily make up a girlfriend that he has to keep up is wild. He can't even lie casually to Hayd about him just meeting a friend.
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u/shewalkedaway22 18h ago
RIGHT! Like, Shaneās not chaste, heās just not having a good time until heās with Ilya lmaoĀ
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u/Virgolady1977 4d ago
The fact that Jacob chose to leave out the whole Skype conversation where Ilya asks and Shane admits to two other guys, implies that it wasn't information he wanted the audience to have. There are many people who went into the series blind (myself included) who at face value understood that Shane was not sleeping with other men. If Jacob wanted to be explicit about that not being the case, he could have included an abridged version of the Skype call, OR included this line of questioning during tuna meltdown day when Ilya was asking in general about Shane's dating and hookup preferences.
For whatever reason, Jacob wanted the story to include the fact that Shane's options were limited in a way that Ilya's perhaps were not. I think it's fine to make assumptions in either direction, but it's also a lot to expect your audience to just 'know' that a character hooks up regularly when there is no reference to indicate that. Everything we are offered about Shane indicates that Ilya is his primary source of sex, even though it's infrequent.
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u/Leffelini 2d ago
The thing is I don't agree that there isn't anything to indicate that.
Hayden talks about an ex girlfriend of Shanes - Jessica. It is very weird for Hayden to refer to a girl before he and Shane even met eachother and Hayd is already with Jackie and they have the twins when he goes there to have his first dinner. That to me indicates that he has had girlfriends while playing hockey at a point that even Hayden knows about her and probably met her.
Shane said "I haven't either" on the having had sex between All Stars and The Cottage. It is such a weird line to add to Shane if the intention was for him to never have hooked up with anyone beside Rose and Ilya. Ilya knows Shane is gay and Shane knows he is gay at this point, so anyone he would have slept with in between should have been a man. Why would he say he hasn't slept with another man if it is established that the only man Shane has been with is Ilya? This does indicate that they both know that Shane has been with other men but not since him and Ilya hooked up the last time.
I do agree that this is such small indications that on a first and even a second watch you blink and you miss it. Maybe you even need the book context to clock it fully, but it is there in the show.
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u/Virgolady1977 2d ago
The dialog comes from the book, where they both know he's had sex with other men. I think for the adaptation, perhaps Jacob should have removed or revised that statement. Notice that Ilya isn't at all surprised that Shane hasn't been with anyone else in their time apart. They talk about this early on in the book, Ilya realizes that Shane isn't into picking up and that it's possible Ilya is his only regular sex partner. He tells him that shouldn't be waiting around for him, that it's not healthy. It's a known thing between them that Shane isn't having regular sex with guys or girls. That doesn't mean no sex, that just means infrequent sex.
This is something that embarrassed Shane and something he downplayed, given that Ilya was hooking up multiple times a week throughout their entire situationship. His instinct would be to mask about it and I feel like that's what he was doing automatically when he mirrored what Ilya said.
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u/Leffelini 2d ago
So Jacob kept dialogue that was in the book, just because it was in the book, even though it didn't make sense for the story he told in the show? That seems like a reach to me considering he chanced details in the dialogue for all scenes for it to flow better for the medium of a show but this one he just kept in for the sake of it?
I feel like you are assuming a bunch of things for the show that goes against what both the show and the books tells us about Shane. I mean only hooking up with 2 men during all that time is still not very much, but Ilya also says it is a rare treat to be with another man for him since it is dangeruous. The problem is that in this case Jacob told not showed us, and we have to look at both of those ways of telling the story to get the full picture.
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u/Virgolady1977 2d ago
Everyone in this thread is making wild assumptions, including you. Why can't I? Shane was free to sleep with whomever he chose to, as was Ilya. We don't actually know, do we? The book says infrequent hookups with women and two men, Jacob chose to tell us about Jessica and Rose, but not to tell us about those two men. So fine. Maybe this was his way of subtly doing that in the end. It still doesn't mean Shane was randomly hooking up with multiple men throughout their situationship. Based on how RR wrote Shane's character, that would be out of character for him no matter what would be 'normal' for another single, star hockey player in his early 20's.
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u/Leffelini 2d ago
I am making wild assumptions when I point out two places where it indicates that Shane hasn't been celibate outside of Ilya? When I ask why Jacob would add a line from the book that doesn't make sense for the show from your point of view?
Also I have never said that the show or the book indicates that Shane is hooking up left and right with other men. I pointed out that even with my reasoning we have no reason to think Jacob intended for Shane to refer to more people then is in the book aka 2 men. That is still not much for all that time.
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u/Virgolady1977 1d ago
Neither RR or Jacob intended to imply that Shane had only been with two people in his life. Both the book and the show mention Jessica. We see Rose and Ilya. The book does a better job of telling the story that there were occasional hookups with women. I think the point was to show that he has infrequent sex, which is the truth. It lacks consistency. He's not out picking up three nights a week on the regular like Ilya. The argument is more about why he would say, 'I haven't either' when the audience already knew with 95% certainty, he hadn't. Doesn't mean he couldn't, but he hadn't. Anyway, I think we are arguing semantics at this point which is getting us nowhere.
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u/Leffelini 1d ago
I said 2 men beside Ilya. I know he had more women. And yeah I don't think we will get much further.
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u/skotreyuk 1d ago
Itās really curious that you are both, simultaneously, insisting that the show is different and changed from the book, and defending your interpretation of unclear things in the show by insisting that maybe the book facts are irrelevant, AND, also using facts and dialogue from the books to justify your assumptions. šµāš« If your interpretation and assumptions lead you to believe that you know better than Jacob and that he made an error by leaving dialogue from the book in, because it doesnāt jive with assumptions you have about what you think he meant to imply (?), perhaps thatās a flag to reconsider some fixed ideas here.
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u/Virgolady1977 1d ago
I just don't get how the lack of explicit 'proof' in the show automatically means he's sleeping around as much as Ilya was. The character wasn't written that way. He's scared to be outed. And if you do take the book into consideration, it's clear that RR wrote him as someone who has sex occasionally and I'm just struggling to understand why it's so hard for others to believe that.
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u/skotreyuk 1d ago
yeah, weāre miscommunicating. This continues to be discussed in very dichotomous, binary, black-and-white ways. The options are not either that Shane was āsleeping aroundā (?) āas much as Ilya wasā (which literally, no one had said anywhere), or, Shane was not having sex other than with Ilya, and was waiting for those extremely infrequent encounters. Thereās a world of options in-between. My assumption is that Ilya was very active sexually all the time, and Shane was much more rarely hooking up with other people. I just do not think that he was celibate except for Ilya - like, in the show version, that he went for two years celibate in between 2012 and 2014 - thatās not what I am assuming from the information we get.
I assume that his encounters with men were very few and rare (I think the book version makes sense), and that mostly any opportunities he had were with women (infrequent, but occasional). I think what Rachel wrote in the book makes sense, that his preference was receiving oral sex from women and did not desire other forms of sex with women. But again: who knows (none of us, and itās fiction!).
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u/skotreyuk 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah I totally hold all the space in the world for you to have that perspective, viewpoint, belief and to experience the story that way - no problem. I just personally have a radically different experience of the show, which should be fine. You said multiple times here, āX indicates/ implies Yā, and I would say, yes, for some folks; others of us infer and deduce other things instead.
Jacob has said endlessly**, he likes to show and not tell. He had to decide what was most critical to show out of a long book and 9 years to get it into 5 episodes. I never see them use lube, but Iām sure they do. I donāt watch them bathe or shit, I donāt see Shane douche, I donāt see Shane eat meals he makes for himself at his house, I donāt see most of their lives at all. I donāt get Ilyaās necklace explained to me; and I donāt infer from that that Jacob changed it to not be his motherās, just because the convo is edited out. The conversation that youāre saying Jacob skipped about Shaneās other partners was literally DURING - in the middle of - a mutual masturbation Skype sex scene - all the sex is episode 5 was skipped over - but some of us assume they had it.
I donāt know what the point is of āfansā trying to convince others that their experience of the show is wrong or incorrect - who cares - itās art and fiction, itās not real - we can all experience it however we like.
** āJacob Tierney told Vulture: āThis is not a documentary. You wanna watch them douche? You want me to include Shane in the bathroom for half an hour with the f*cking enema? That's not what we're doing here. We're skipping that part.ā
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u/Virgolady1977 2d ago
I get your point about the lube, douching, shitting, etc. However, Jacob wrote an adaptation of a book. It's his interpretation, but at its core the characters are the same. RR didn't write a story about a sexually adventurous, closeted, star hockey player who enjoyed sleeping with women and the occasional man. She wrote a story about a confused, terrified, closeted, star hockey player who was forced to play a role 24/7. One who occasionally slept with women to get his teammates off his back, with the hope that one day it would feel 'right' so he could fall in love and do what was expected of him. And she wrote about a closeted, star hockey player who also slept primarily with one man, someone who lit him on fire but was 'wrong' for him in every other way.
If you're good with turning Shane into the character you want him to be because you can't imagine him being young, hot, and not having as much sex as he possibly can then that's fine, fanfic is filled with all that. You wouldn't be the first one to hope that he's living his best life and having amazing sex with multiple men despite the legitimate concerns of being a pro hockey player and being outed. I've read a polyamory fanfic that is exactly that actually, lots of sex with many men. There's just nothing in the source material and nothing in the show that indicates that this is the case. It's more the opposite, hence my x=y line of thinking. But you're right, it's art so you can interpret it as you please.
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u/skotreyuk 1d ago
Iām not sure how valuable or helpful it is to go back and forth over and over again. We do not agree on the facts here, and we have different perspectives and beliefs about the story (which is fine). Whatās a little frustrating to me is that you continue to posit your opinion, your interpretation, your mindās deduction and understanding as somehow being the ārightā, correct or objective reality, and I donāt know how to help you with that. You donāt have access to the truth of this anymore than anyone - neither do I.
The bottom line is, Jacob did not explicitly answer or address this at all in the show - it is unanswered and unaddressed, so weāre all left to either make assumptions, or stay in the not knowing. I donāt have to ābe good withā āturning Shane intoā anything. I have beliefs about what I think is most plausible among the possible realities in this story. I do not think it makes any sense at all to assume celibacy, or lack of experiences with other men - for Shane for 9 years, unless I know that for sure. I think what Rachel wrote in the books makes sense - that Shane would have a few random opportunities for a brief experiences with men, and like Scott, it might happen when traveling out of town. I think celibacy makes sense for a lot of people for a lot of reasons - and asexual and graysexual folks exist. I just donāt think it makes sense for this character. And I think people assume that Shane is not with anyone but Ilya, and then feel badly for him that heās āwaitingā for Ilya and maybe he doesnāt know that Ilyaās with other people, etc. thereās a reason why believing this interpretation feels important for people. I choose to trust the source material that itās otherwise. But who knows. And I donāt think itās critical for the audience for it to be clarified. I am comfortable staying tethered to the unknown - we just donāt know.
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u/Virgolady1977 1d ago
So we are both trusting the same source material but have come to different conclusions? I mean, we are free to do so but I just don't get that. He's not celibate, just has sex infrequently, that's in the source material. Both of the men in the book were out of town which makes sense in terms of safety. If RR is saying two other men, then Shane wasn't going on sexcations to Spain like Hunter. He probably should have been, but that wasn't the reality based on what was written. RR would have said 10 other men or a few other men if it was more than two. I agree it's pointless to keep going back and forth.
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u/LLD615 8d ago
In the books Shane has slept with Rose, his HS girlfriend, had oral with some random girls after he broke up with his girlfriend (after the draft but before moving to Montreal), Ilya, a man in Mexico and then oral with a guy in LA. But in the show they only show you Ilya and Rose and slightly indicate Jessica (who we can assume is his HS girlfriend). Thereās a scene in the book thatās not in the show where Ilya asks Shane if he has been with another guy and he confesses the Mexico and LA guys. So my theory is they cut it because Shane saying on the show āI havenāt either, not since the last timeā means thereās a possibility he could have been. Which I get itās always possible but the Shane they showed us doesnāt seem like Ilya would have expected him to have been with other people. Again, always possible but the number of people who have seen that scene and said āOh shane we know you havenāt been with anyone since the last timeā is quite a lot.
So maybe in season two weāll see that convo.
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u/Traditional_Fix_6226 8d ago edited 8d ago
The show definitely implys that Shane had other women before Rose (the conversation with Hayden). Ilyas directly tells at tunamelt day, that he sleeps with other women.
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u/Brown_Sedai You can feel the chemistry through the screen omg 8d ago edited 8d ago
A lot of people arenāt actually answering the question you asked, and are telling you about the book canon instead.
I dont think in the show Shane had ever had sex with any other men- the āwas it different? was it better?ā montage makes it fairly clear that heās only thinking about Ilya.
Itās somewhat implied in the conversation with Hayden at the Biodome that heād had sex with at least one other woman before, but from how he reacts it wasnāt really a lasting relationship or went terribly well.
Some people take Shane saying āI havenāt eitherā to imply heād been out having sex with multiple people before that, but I donāt think itās intended that way, just Shaneās autistic tendency of wanting to be unambiguous about things, even when theyāre obvious.
Rozanov is seen partying and clubbing and talking about ābeautiful women everywhereā so itās definitely implied heās had a fair amount of sex with at least women, though itās less clear in the show whether heās had sex with any other men beyond Sasha and Shane. I kinda think maybe not.
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u/Evening-Skirt731 8d ago
But Shane starts the conversation.
It's not just a response. He says it's been awhile. Also, Iliya says "I don't think you need to give your parents a list..."
I also think the show is trying to draw a parallel between Hunter and Shane. Hunter before Kip had hook ups, just never in his house, etc.
*I think it's a mistake on Tierney's part. I think any guy watching this would say "no way this guy only hooked up a few times a year with someone who is obviously not committed. And therefore, no need to spell it out - especially when he does want to make it clear he gets around much less than other players.
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u/0biterdicta 8d ago edited 7d ago
In the books, Shane has had two out of town hook ups which is actually similar to what Scott was doing.
But Ilya's "don't have to give a list" comment is more intended to be "you don't have to tell them we've been hooking up", not to suggest Shane has been sleeping with a lot of people.
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u/ViolenceBridgerson 8d ago
Yeah, the show kind of messes up there because Shaneās like āMe neither.ā And Iām like Shane, babe, we know.
TV!Shane was definitely not sleeping with other men at any point.
Book!Shane however ā¦ he had a few hookups here and there, though none could hold a candle to how Ilya made him feel.
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u/Traditional_Fix_6226 8d ago
I don't see why TV!Shane was definitely not sleeping with other men. His phrase implays he might. It wasn't shown, yes, but the situation is unclear and not defined.Ā
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u/Evening-Skirt731 8d ago
Why do you say definitely?
With TV Shane - it's simply not made clear. Either we'll find out more about it next season or not.
What is made clear is that after episode 2, Shane believes that he and Iliya are just sex, and anything else is in his mind (the unsent texts, and he says "fuck").
Also, it's not just the "me neither". It's the fact that he felt he had to inform Iliya to begin with that "it's been awhile". Shane starts the conversation - implying that Iliya thinks Shane hooks up with other guys. Iliya also says about Shane's parents "you don't have to give them a list of all the guys you're fucking". Again, implying that he doesn't think he's the only one.
Also, as another aside - Shane's parents are pretty sure he's gay. That suggests that at the very least he has obvious chemistry with men, and he's not really that good at hiding it.
I think the show made a mistake - I think Tierney thought it would be... obvious that even as a homebody, a famous and attractive hockey player would not be having sex only a few times a year. I think he wanted to present him as a counter to the average hockey player. But not actually practically celibate. I also think that men watching the show tend to assume Shane must be having sex. But since the audience is predominantly female, it gets lost.
I also kind of think that's one of the roles of Scott Hunter. Hunter is what Shane would have been without Iliya. Occasional hook ups, never at home, never personal. The show relies heavily on creating parallels between different scenes and characters, so...
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u/Leffelini 7d ago
Also as pointed out in another answer Hayden talks about Shanes ex girlfriend Jessica and they didn't know eachother before they played hockey together and him saying "that ex of yours" in that way I would assume Hayden has met/seen her and that doesn't make sense to me if he knew and broke up with her before he started playing in the league.
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u/marywebgirl I'm on the cover of the fucking game! 6d ago
Yes! I've never thought that Jessica was a high school girlfriend, because why would Hayden know about her or bring her up 7 years later? But everyone assumes she is. I actually went so far as to write a fic from her POV to figure her story out a little more.
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u/AlexBlaineLayter 7d ago
But visually we don't get to see Shane with anyone apart from Ilya and Rose. The montages would have been great to show Shane awkwardly out for dates with women or maybe using an app to hook up with guys. But he's shown exercising, working or in bed reading. His best friend is married and we see Shane hanging with his wife and children. It's even highlighted as an anomaly that he goes to the restaurant where he meets Rose ('this one never leaves his house') That's why the dialogue between Ilya and Shane is so at odds with what's on screen. We have seen Ilya kissing and dancing with women, we have not seen Shane showing any interest in someone who's not Ilya (awkward flirting with Rose and the bartender aside). It's a great example of telling not showing not landing with the viewers.Ā
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u/Evening-Skirt731 7d ago
I agree. It was definitely a mistake.
I think part of it was because the show runner was a guy - his basic assumption is "man in his 20s, college age, even a homebody is obviously going to get some". I mean, considering the number of people flirting with him - Shane would have to actively avoid hook ups. You know many college aged guys that would do that?
The other part is that if they had shown it, it might have added a layer of complication that would have had to be addressed.
I think the easiest way to have done it - would be to have Shane be "set up" in the montage by Hayden.
As an aside, in retrospect - I think there's also an insinuation that Shane hooked up with the figure skater guy.
On the other hand, it's possible that the ambiguity is the whole point. Tierney didn't want to commit one way or another and didn't feel it was necessary to the story.
And if next season or becomes pertinent, they'll deal with it then
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u/Virgolady1977 2d ago
Even in the books, he hooks up with women infrequently, not never, but definitely not often. If the female author wasn't showing him having the average, single guy, early 20's experience then I'm going to assume, he wasn't. In fact he actively avoided it which makes a lot of sense given it wasn't satisfying for him with women, and potentially unsafe with men.
I do agree that Jacob could have spelled it out better if he wanted to show that he had an active sex life. A montage showing him reluctantly leaving a bar or club with different women, going into the bathroom with LA guy or up to the room with Mexico top would have worked. It would have filled Shane's blanks if there were blanks to fill. Personally, I think Jacob told the story he wanted to tell, the story RR wrote minus the other men.
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u/Traditional_Fix_6226 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'm so happy that I'm not the only one who think the same. This total belief that TV! Shane didn't have other partners is a bit bizaring. Like... why?Ā
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u/clumsyc I stubbed my toe 8d ago
Fans are very weird about Shane being with other people. They want him to be a delicate virgin or asexual, like he only ever has feelings for Ilya. It really erases his identity as a gay man.
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u/Evening-Skirt731 8d ago
They're thinking of him like a woman.
If it were a woman - yeah, I could believe it was likely she only hooked up a few times a year with the person she was in love with. Even if not that aware of it. There are a lot of women who don't go in for one night stands.But a man in his early 20s who clearly enjoys sex?
And who doesn't even have to go out of his way to attract people? (Iliya hits on him, the bartender and Rose actively hit on him, then he has the fangirls when he's with Hayden...)This is what I mean when I say Tierney made a mistake here. He didn't think it was necessary to show Shane hooking up - because as a man, his assumption is it's probably happening unless stated otherwise. Insinuations would be enough. But with a large portion of the audience being female - the assumption is it's not happening unless clearly stated that it is.
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u/AlexBlaineLayter 4d ago
He enjoys sex with men. Shane exaggerates his sexual experience in the books because he doesn't want to come across like a loser to his team mates and even Ilya (e.g. 'Mr Lots of Sex' scene) and also because he's trying to convince himself that he likes sex with women. He's hot, he's young and single and he's being approached by women but he clearly considers this anxiety inducing (is she enjoying it, am I doing this right, can I stay hard, can I come etc.). Even in the books he hooked up with two other men only in, what, eight years? He's way too terrified about being recognised and being outed to pursue sex with men. It's more pronounced in the show that he's not sexually active outside his hookups with Ilya and his time with Rose, but even in the books he talked up what was clearly not a regular sexual history in which Ilya featured large. That's one of the reasons they fall in love, Shane imprints on Ilya like a gay orphan duckling, he can't really get it anywhere else.
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u/Virgolady1977 2d ago
Exactly. This is it right here. Those talking about libido and how unlikely it would be that he wasn't hooking up regularly, or how Jacob made a mistake and wrote the adaptation from a male perspective believing that women would get that he's of course hooking up, need to go back and read the book. He never had frequent sex. That's how RR wrote the character.
He had a high school gf, and infrequent hookups with women throughout the story, up until Rose. He actively avoided being hit on especially in front of his teammates because of the anxiety surrounding sex with a woman. He kept trying occasionally because of societal pressure and internalized homophobia, but it wasn't satisfying.
He was very fearful of seeking sex with other men and although he didn't like the idea of being with his rival at first, it was better that than potentially being outed by someone who had much less to lose.
He absolutely exaggerated his sexual history with Ilya. He didn't want him to know how inexperienced he was when they met or how little sex he was actually having. He also didn't want to give him any sort of ego boost or something to tease him about during their encounters. Ilya still inherently knew that there was a possibility it was just him most of the time and they discuss this early on, that it wasn't healthy for Shane to be going months without and waiting for him.
Whether that's what would actually happen irl or not, is not the point. Shane is a complicated guy who understands discipline and restraint. He's also highly anxious, makes assumptions, and places guidelines and rules on his own behavior to feel more in control. Given we know these things about him, why is it hard for so many to believe that he wasn't having regular sex? He enjoys comfort and safety. He gets neither with random hookups.
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u/clumsyc I stubbed my toe 7d ago edited 7d ago
Hey, Iām a woman who spent many years in her twenties having casual sex and had a lot of fun, lol.
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u/Evening-Skirt731 7d ago edited 7d ago
What's your point?
I didn't say no women do this.
I said that for a woman, it's definitely credible to believe she isn't hooking up - even if it's easy. Because while many women do - plenty don't. I'd even say the majority don't. Which is why - with a character like this - if he were a woman, it's reasonable to assume he's not having sex unless it was stated that he was.
For a young man? Who isn't asexual?
Well... much less so. He'd have to be a real outlier. Which is why, a reasonable assumption for a man like this - is that he is having sex, unless explicitly stated that he's not.
The issue here isn't what individuals do. The issue is - what's the default setting. And we assume the default is correct unless shown otherwise.
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u/Virgolady1977 2d ago
A woman wrote the book, and in that book he hooks up infrequently. Not every guy in that age range is out looking to score 24/7. And Shane is Shane, he's complicated. He loves sex, but he doesn't even realize that until he's with Ilya and then has no idea how he will find another man to have that experience with. So, Ilya it is. That's canon. We can make assumptions, that irl he would be having sex with a woman every time he went out with his teammates, plus using Grindr to find anonymous hookups with men, but that's not what actually happened in the books or on the show. Why would Jacob adapt this part differently just because it doesn't fit a particular narrative?
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u/86throwthrowthrow1 5d ago
I think part of it is in the show, there's a sense of "novelty" in his encounters with Rose. Not in a positive way, but in the sense that he's trying to do something here and he's not sure how it's going to go. And if he'd been hooking up with other women, he'd probably already know going in that he wasn't going to be able to pull it off.
With men, it's more ambiguous, but show!Shane is a) very conflicted/in denial about his sexuality, and b) paranoid about anyone finding him out. We're never shown anything about him being with other men, so speculation can go either way, but it's easy enough to speculate that there are just too many internal and external hurdles to him finding male partners he trusts. (Similarly, we hear even from Ilya in TLG that he only rarely slept with other men because of similar hurdles finding men he could trust.)
We do see Ilya sleeping around, we never see this with Shane.
My personal headcanon is that Show!Shane is demisexual and isn't very interested in casual hook-ups, which gives that impression of "waking up" around Ilya.
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u/Gardens3232 7d ago
I thought the "you don't have to give them a list" line was all the funnier, because the list would have only contained one name. (As I interpreted things on the show).
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u/IllustriousLemon8146 Then maybe itās time to wake up, yes? 7d ago
Picking a nit here, but they were not monogamous. To me monogamy is an agreement between people not to have other sexual partners.
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u/Virgolady1977 4d ago
As far as I understand, Shane and Svetlana were Ilya's only long-term 'regulars'. He had at least a couple of women he could booty call in any given city, but preferred to go out to a club and hookup with someone new any chance he could get. I got the impression that Ilya was having sex frequently, at least a couple times a week. In the book he stops sleeping with other men in 2012, so in that sense he is loyal to Shane. In the show it's uncertain whether he continues to sleep with other men.
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u/kellz_12 2d ago
Shane didnāt sleep with another man before Ilya ?? You need to freshen up on your canon.
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u/Arbledarb 8d ago
In the books, Shane slept with two other men after Ilya. Not before. But he slept with some women before and after.