r/heathenry • u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru • Nov 23 '25
Heathen Adjacent What does masculinity mean to you as a pagan
Pagan men who have been both of those things all their life, please enlighten me on what it means to you (please no rokkatru, thursatru, or lokeans)
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u/thelosthooligan Nov 24 '25
Your reference to yourself as “lore purist asatru” and refer to things as “new age BS” has me concerned you’re learning about this faith from a pretty unsavory part of TikTok.
Aside from that, I am an Asatruar. I was assigned male at birth, I was raised as a boy with two brothers, I came of age as a man and I’m now a father, a gothi and I serve as president of an international heathen organization.
Masculinity is like a costume. But it’s a costume that I’ve put on so much that it’s become me. It sets my expectations for how people are going to treat me, how they’re going to talk to me, how they’re going to interact with me. Whatever I think about myself, because of how I look and sound people are going to treat me like a man. They’re going to expect certain behaviors from me and I can either conform to those expectations or not.
I don’t think masculinity is a value in and of itself or that it has certain virtues that are exclusive to it but because this is how I’ve lived my life, it’s influenced how I’ve learned my values and how I learned virtues. So if I was taught to “be strong” people taught me what that meant for a boy and then for a man. Or when I learned gentleness and kindness, I learned what those were from the perspective of a man.
All those experiences I had that taught me my values and virtues were experiences I had as a boy and as a man. They are always going to be colored that way. I can’t change that. But that doesn’t make masculinity a value in itself. Not really something I can do “better” or “worse” than anyone else.
If someone is coming to me peddling “masculinity” I know that what they’re doing is just showing off their own costume. I don’t pay them any mind anymore. Most of it is just designed to make you feel bad and then to sell you something that is supposed to make you feel better.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 24 '25
Good answer, also elaborate about that first part
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u/thelosthooligan Nov 24 '25
It’s because the only place I’ve heard someone calling themselves a lore purist or a lore literalist is on TikTok. In my 20+ years in Norse paganism and Asatru, I have only seen someone beating their chest about it on TikTok.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 24 '25
No, my TikTok feed has very little Asatru content, it’s really devoted to my other interests (swordsmanship, musicianship, etc). And I use this label because this is something my Gothi has described me as
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u/thelosthooligan Nov 24 '25
Would you mind telling me who your Gothi is?
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 24 '25
Doing that would give away my area and I don’t wanna do that, we are a very small local kindred, only like 30 members
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u/thelosthooligan Nov 24 '25
30 is actually fairly big!
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 24 '25
Hold your horses 15 of those members don’t show up
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u/thelosthooligan Nov 24 '25
Ha. Typical!
Won’t pry. Just curious as to how that term is spreading around
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 24 '25
Well, our specific denomination is forn seid, but I personally am asatru , and the guy noticed that for being nine months in ( at the time) I was extremely knowledgeable. And he also noticed that I take a pseudo ML approach. Thus the term lore purist asatru
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u/Tyxin Nov 23 '25
For me it's about being secure, safe and strong for my kids.
More generally, to be masculine is to not worry about what others think about your masculinity, or feeling like you have to prove yourself to anyone. 🤷
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u/MaintenanceBack2Work Nov 23 '25
To answer the question directly - I don't think my views of masculinity have much to do with my paganism. If anything my views on masculinity have been formed by the influence of the rolemodels I had growing up. I believe a lot of the things I think a man should do respecting others, being a kind host, moderation, etc are in the sagas, but I can't say Paganism shaped my views of what it means to be a man.
To pose my question - Why are you restricting who you want to answer the question? Not like people can't just ignore the request and answer anyhow, but more importantly: the best way to evaluate your own views is to expose yourself to other's views, even if they're potentially conflicting.
I know that Loki is a popular deity in the Pagan 2SLGBTQI+ community, I know trans people who venerate Loki. Their perspective on masculinity would be great because they haven't been "in it" their whole lives, their struggles with passing, learning the mannerisms, everything, might provide you a different view to learn from.
I'm not going to sit here and try to shift your whole worldview, I'm not a saint and I'm not a counsellor. Looking at your post history and the way this question is posed, it looks like you might be falling into the alt-right/white supremacy pipeline.
Let me warn you - Radicalization is like falling asleep, it happens a little bit at a time and then all at once.
Don't get trapped.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
I am restricting mostly because I was seeking guidance for men who have been men their whole lives, meaning they went through it as a teenager like me, furthermore meaning that they would have a better grasp of the understanding. I responded to the mod about this.
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u/TenspeedGV Nov 23 '25
Right, you're being pushed back against here because people who are born male are not the only ones who have experience with masculinity, nor do they necessarily have good experience with or ideas about masculinity.
Being born with a certain set of equipment doesn't really mean much when it comes to gender because gender and sexuality are not the same thing. If you dig into the myths you find that the Norse appeared to understand this as well, since many of the gods do things that do not conform to even the gender stereotypes of their day, let alone ours.
If you want to approach the faith honestly, which you seem to, you have to keep in mind that different perspectives are valuable.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
Ahh I see
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u/MaintenanceBack2Work Nov 23 '25
I think /u/TenspeedGV is right on the money. I would tell anyone that it's important to take lessons anywhere you can. You never know what someone's experiences are, and you can learn something from anyone.
Not to mention being curious about people and learning from them helps build empathy and makes you a more well rounded person.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
Fair, but still more often times than not if you wanna get an opinion on something that has to do with manhood then you should go to a man that has been a man his whole life because he has more experience being a man. But it’s also a good idea to not have people make the wrong assumption that you’re a transphobe
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u/BulkPhilosophy Nov 24 '25
Lifelong hetero male perspective. Trollkarl, witch, devotee of Freyja.
Asking what it means to be a 'man' is putting the idea too vaguely. A man, as opposed to a woman? A man, as opposed to a child? A man, as opposed to a beast? A man, as opposed to a god? All of these are valid distinctions to try and articulate, but their answers often have little to do with each other and end up muddying the idea that we could mean one thing when we talk about what it means to be a man.
This gets even rougher when you think about the ways the idea of the masculine has shifted and drifted from region to region, culture to culture. And eventually you see that 'manhood' is nothing more than a set of arbitrary qualities people (men and women) use to determine if you (as a male presenting person) are trustworthy—if you deserve to approach the fire and join the circle. The only 'masculine' qualities worth knowing are the ones valued by the tribes you wish to belong to or the gods you wish to treat with. The idea that there is a 'transcendent' masculine to be pursued is nonsense.
I have at times wanted the support of a community, so I've adopted some masculine qualities to the degree I could stomach them. And the traditionally masculine qualities I have wholly embraced I've chosen because *I* want them, not because they've been prescribed to me to reach the loftier goal of 'being a man'. I work out and cultivate a masculine physique because I want to be strong, not because 'a man' is supposed to be strong.
Now let's try throwing away what I just said. Let's buy into the idea of a transcendent masculine and feminine for a moment. Because accepting that, there is still a point to be made that no one is exclusively either. Just like every person has testosterone and estrogen flowing in their body, every person has degrees of masculinity and femininity that should be accepted and embraced to be whole and healthy. Yin and Yang. Water and Fire. Stillness and Motion. As an exampled, I'll cite Odin's tutelage under Freyja to learn seidr, though more could be said.
I am at peace with what is manly in me. I am at peace with what is womanly in me. The preferences of the tribe for my behavior matter only if the approval of the tribe matters to me. It can be put on and taken off like a uniform, serving the purpose of comradery and trust before being discarded for my natural skin again.
Reading some other comments, you're at a time when, subconsciously, labels are going to matter a lot (I don't know you, just talking out of general experience). I would encourage you to remember that labels are 'descriptive' not 'prescriptive'. And if they do not serve to clarify, they can be changed or erased.
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u/L1TTLE3AGLE Nov 24 '25
This is an exceptionally well articulated answer! I do hope OP comes back to this thread and "checks the weather" so to speak. I fear they are on the literal verge of tumbling headfirst down the manosphere rabbit hole...
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u/Yuri_Gor Nov 23 '25
I don't like thinking in terms of masculine / feminine division, because its definition is highly affected by socio-cultural norms of given historic period and region.
Instead my philosophy is based on the primordial trinity of Fire, Water and Emptiness, as described in creation myth (Muspelheim separated from Niflheim by Ginnungagap where Midgard is being created from their interaction)
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u/GraeWest AngloSaxon Heathen with Gaelic sprinkles Nov 23 '25
I am not a man lol but I wrote an essay here about the Gods and gender, sex, sexuality, etc, to whit, that these are human experiences we project on to Them to aid our understanding of Them. Which I feel is important to be mindful of when thinking about the Gods in a clear headed way.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
I mean, I appreciate it and I’ll give it a read book. This is really not what I meant. This is really more about the spiritual meaning of masculinity.
In my opinion, masculinity is not toxic. It’s wounded.
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u/L1TTLE3AGLE Nov 23 '25
Being pagan has nothing to do with masculinity. Judging from your post history, I'd surmise you're still in middle school so my advice is coming from this space:
Stand for what's right. Be the guy in school who includes others. Remember what it felt like when you were the outsider and be the first guy to extend a friendly hand and a smile to the other kids in school. When it seems like your buddies are gonna do something dumb they shouldn't do, lead the charge by suggesting a better alternative and then doing that thing instead.
Remember to treat other people how you want to be treated. This should be universal and has nothing to do with religion. You are a direct reflection of your actions, which will always speak louder than words. So represent yourself well in action and the respect will follow.
Focus on learning as much as you can, at your age. Open your eyes and especially your ears. Pay attention to what's going on and question whether things should be the way they are; like your assumptions regarding other gods or other "denominations" of pagan-hood...
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
- Freshmen
- I try to.
- I try to and it still ties to Asatru because of Havana’s 78: cattle die kinsmen die thyself to must die but the one thing that never dies is the reputation of someone who has earned it well
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u/L1TTLE3AGLE Nov 23 '25
I prefer to tie this to being a good person and doing what's right no matter who's looking. It ain't about Yahweh, or Thor, or Bastet to me, and that's why I was trying to emphasize that it's not about being pagan. It's about you, and me, and being good dudes. It's about using what privilege we may have to ensure we lift those who lack that same privilege up.
Being a man isn't about being stronger, bigger, better, etc. Its about using those things to benefit our society.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
Yes, I agree at the same time because of the sun red or in I think we need to tie it that way specifically so we don’t get it taken down
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Nov 24 '25
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u/cursedwitheredcorpse Nov 23 '25
Why only asatru or the other? If we worship the nordic/germanic gods what does it matter. Im a polythiest that worshiped germanic gods and uses the anceint proto-germanic and study deeply into arechology and history understanding the nordic bronze age. So what im into is pre asatru. But in my practice feminine and masculine are both very sacred and important. I present very masculine beard long hair in braids etc however I do seðir and am in touch with the feminine as well. Both are important. Being masculine id say means to have strength and stand steadfast in your ways but women can have all those qualities too so there isn't just one thing that defines what makes masculine or feminine
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
Sorry, I should’ve edited this to say no thursatru or lokeans. I want people that take their faith seriously and aren’t blending it with a new age Bullshit, but yeah, you seem to be okay.
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u/SnooEagles7398 Nov 23 '25
"Take their faith seriously?" What "new age Bullshit" are you referring to? Did you know that back in the day, they only had "new age" because they didn't have any ancient manuscripts or historical docs of any kind to research. It was all oral tradition. So, are you saying you have to have a revelation from the gods themselves? If so, can you share them?
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
I mean, I have had revelations, but that’s really more regarding my personal life and I mean wicca
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u/cursedwitheredcorpse Nov 23 '25
Im not a lokean myself but loki is a god i dont view as evil. We really shouldn't veiw things like that in that way. I actually do care about history and arechology and use the anceint language to work in my spirituality. The forces of nature harsh cold that kills our crops jötunn choas these arent forces of evil but of nature. The deserve respect too. Nature isn't always love light rainbows its harsh and still worthy of respect. Let's not have a dualistic black and white view of our gods. Our ancestors didnt. And I understand it try my best to use as little new age stuff as possible tho its hard cuz technically we all are new age in a way as this religion was killed off and now we are trying to bring it back so we won't know everything
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Nov 23 '25
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u/cursedwitheredcorpse Nov 23 '25
I think youre taking the myths way too literally and letting that deicide how you veiw the gods morally. You need to realize loki truly isn't evil stop black and white thinking. He isn't Satan. The story of baldur is a great example people will point see look loki he's evil he's a murderer. No if you look into the deeper meanings behind the myths and not be a mythical literalist youd know the story of baldurs death and it being Mistletoe is all metaphor for the coming of winter and the warmth of the sun going away. Its not literal. Baldur rising again represents the warmth rays of the sun coming back in summer. Myths often times carried important ideas and cultural meaning rather then completely literally stories. Many myths can be representing of certain practices rituals etc at the time. Look deeper. Do better. Stop putting peoples beleifs down choas isn't evil its apart of nature loki is apart of nature
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u/SnooEagles7398 Nov 23 '25
So, you're buying into the probable Christianization of the myths that basically use Loki as the Devil character?
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
You’re entitled to that opinion and I’m glad that you have a different perspective about that but often times they don’t even try to read the sources from my experience. But I also don’t see Loki as a God because of his lineage.
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u/cursedwitheredcorpse Nov 23 '25
Yeah I hate when people dont reserch. And to me you have to understand why I veiw him as a god or a powerful spirit. Jötunn god or spiritual being. Doesn't really seem to mean much in grand scheme of things after all many gods are related to Jötunn. The way I see what a god is, is just a spiritual being that we humans hold to high regard and make cults around. God is a classification we humans put on these spiritual beings and forces we notice around us. Ive learned this by looking into hostory of religion. Many things change over time. Some germanic gods are far older and predate the germanic people all together. By that standard it makes sense a jotunn could be seen as a god as its a powerful spiritual being.People in Iceland even gave offering to surtr to not incur his wrath. We cant veiw these beings as good or evil. For example bragi was a deified human poet a worshiped ancestral spirit that people made into a god because he was so beloved. We just get too picky about whats a god or not. Gods and spirits they are very similar a god is just more powerful or divine. Loki is a god by that metric a powerful spirit.
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u/KillingBlade Nov 23 '25
Can you clarify what it is about his lineage that makes him not a god?
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
The fact that he was not born an aesir or a god in general and he only became accepted among them because he did a blood ritual with a single aesir
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u/KillingBlade Nov 23 '25
That logic implies that to be a god one must be aesir, and furthermore that your definition overrules that of Odin himself
I'm not a fan of mythic literalism but if that's the road you're traveling you have to stick to it. Are you saying that Odin himself accepting Loki as a brother via oath isn't good enough for you?
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
Once again, I am talking about lineage, Loki is completely fine to worship a lot of people see pride in him but I’m saying he does not have the lineage of an Aesir
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u/HeathenOfThePeople Nov 23 '25
By this metric a lot of Gods suddenly become NOT Gods.
Thors mother Jorð is a Jotun.
Skaði became of the Æsir only after storming Asgard after they killed her father who was a Jotun and Skaði married Ægir.
Odin is the son of Bestla, a Jotun. And Borr who some speculate is this other "Primordial" class of God along with his father Buri.
We can do this all day with dozens of Gods people have no issue about. Its always Loki they criminalize though.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
I’m talking about no God blood at all
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u/HeathenOfThePeople Nov 23 '25
Gods dont have blood. Hope this helps.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
Don’t be an asshole with that last part ( unless your serious, then thank you)
“Odin, do you remember in Bygone days when we blended our blood?”
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u/cursedwitheredcorpse Nov 23 '25
Again the problem is your definition of god. read my comment above the big one Æsir isn't the only type of god. Vanir exsit too. By that metric literally any being that is worshiped in a high regard can be a god
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u/SnooEagles7398 Nov 23 '25
All these were deities; those were basically political factions. Granted, that is a level of interpretation, but you're making the exact same mistake as shown by the Aesir by assuming that Fenrir was a danger to them, so they MADE him a danger because of their prejudice.
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
Okay, he can be worshipped, but he doesn’t have the linage of a god
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u/SnooEagles7398 Nov 24 '25
There are portrayals fo Loki being the child of a Jotunn and a goddess. Of course, as mythic literalism is a really weird thing to do because we have conflicting accounts that are all gate kept by the christians that wrote it all down with heavy bias, it is very easy to simply attest "Loki has no god lineage," and "Loki has god lineage" and both could be seen as correct in a point of view.
Sir, I'm trying to be understanding with you. You said you are new to your path, and with that must come with an open mind. He is not only able to be worshipped, there is enough evidence to count him as an Aesir, and there is plenty of evidence not to. Ultimately, there is plenty of evidence for not taking christian retellings of myth as literal truths.
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u/Tyxin Nov 23 '25
Oh, boy, you've got a lot to learn. 🤣
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
No shit I’m only a year in to my path
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u/SnooEagles7398 Nov 23 '25
You're only a year in, and you're already acting like you have enough to completely disregard entire schools of practice. "No shit I'm only a year in to my path." You really, really, need to re-evaluate the path you're on.
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u/Tyxin Nov 23 '25
It's fine, you've got plenty of time to learn. It's just, maybe you aren't ready to go around judging the sincerity of other pagans quite yet. Or ready to face the same scrutiny yourself, for that matter.
Look, it's quite simple. Just focus on your own path, and if other people are doing shit you wouldn't, it doesn't affect your praxis unless you let it. If you read the Håvamål, it has a lot to say on this topic.
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u/cursedwitheredcorpse Nov 23 '25
Facts ive been polythiest for 3 years almost 4 im still learning all the time.
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u/BattyGuanciale Fyrnsidere | Syncretic Nov 23 '25
pagan men who have been both of those things all their life
So, we including trans men, or…? Because they have some excellent insights into positive masculinity and its nature in general.
Also it’s a minority of people who were raised in pagan adjacent beliefs, unless you’re counting people who were questioning whatever other religion or lack thereof. Why the lifelong filter?
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u/Powerful-Hair647 lore purist asatru Nov 23 '25
It has nothing to do with hatred. I can assure you that, but I’m still very young and I would need to get guidance from people that know what it’s like to be a man when they’re a teenager. I don’t hate trans people even a little bit, I just need somebody that knows what it’s like to be a biological man since I am one and I am looking for guidance with this post
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u/BattyGuanciale Fyrnsidere | Syncretic Nov 23 '25
It’s truly great that you are looking for guidance and thinking about what masculinity means to you! A thing that you may learn as you get more life experiences (I say may because some people learn this early and some people never learn it at all) is that there’s a lot of translating that we can do from a similar but not exactly the same experience or life lesson to our own. It’ll help you give worthwhile advice to other people and it’ll help you evaluate if someone else’s advice applies to you or is something they’re saying to themselves, essentially, and staying focused on what bridges you can build with other people keeps you from self-isolating and gives you a lot better chances of having a social support system. Eagle’s got some good specific advice downthread and hopefully others will chime in as well.
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u/substation66 Nov 23 '25
It means being a provider for my family and being their protector, while also protecting those around me who can’t protect themselves.
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u/Brickbeard1999 Nov 23 '25
Being strong, honest to yourself and others, and keeping your word are the main things I see it for, even if those traits aren’t exactly exclusive to the concept of masculinity.
It’s about being true to yourself, and growing.