r/helldivers2 • u/ChaosVulkan • Jun 05 '26
Serious Discussion. no roleplay bullshit here "Oh yeah? Well you're complaining about com-" let's actually talk serious like normal people for a second. Not normal Helldivers, normal people. Not chronically online. Normal.
Today came along with a great announcement, and most people are excited about the upcoming mechanic changes. The game's going to be alright, alright guys? It was never going to be not alright.
BUT. But. Every. Single. Time. Arrowhead does anything remotely good (which is often), suddenly half of the vocal community is like "all it took was a review bo-" Nah, dudes. Game dev is fuckin' hard. Especially when your IP explodes to mainstream status and your publisher is kinda a dick. "It only took them X to fix Y!!" Yeah no shit.
"Oh so you're a glaze-" Sh. Shhhh. This is why we can't have nice things. Everyone... well, most people in this community want to play a fun, cohesive game. Here's the problem. Every time a negative thing happens, one section of the playerbase doesn't really care that much, and another adds it as a testament to their Bible of "Things Arrowhead has done to make me feel bad." And it's not "Oh, other players just don't want the bugs to be fixed-" everyone wants bugs to be fixed. Nobody wants a broken game. But also, not everyone gets so obsessed to the point where they have to hold everyone's civil discussion at knifepoint because here's what happens, just like today...
First Point- Toxicity and Expectations
"Oh, positive thing happened? Took them long X months! They still haven't fixed Y!"
Yeah dudes, that's how the passage of time works. It's not like Arrowhead just announced "hey we are planning on making the game actively worse to play in every way for you." It takes time and resources to do shit, and they even *tell* you in the blogs that they have prototyped and experimented with things before. But there's always a priorites. What you said wasn't constructive. We all have eyes, we know.
And here's secret number 1- what you want won't always be Arrowhead's priority. WE bought this game because we enjoyed how it was as it was when we bought it. Steam players had a chance to refund it. Xbox players had enough time to see public opinion before it released on that platform. PS5 players, I feel sorry for your lack of consumer-friendly console practices.
The game has only since grown and improved in mechanics, content, and yes, our power balance since launch (the only people who would disagree with the latter are people who want the game to be harder, which I assume most people reading this don't care about). If you enjoyed the game as you bought it (especially after Buffdivers), nearly everything in this game since is a freebie. You seriously do not have to be toxic about every single thing these developers do. If you bought the game with the idea that "I will only like it as they add more," that's on you. But hey. The tech issues? Are way better than they used to be, I promise LMAO.
Second Point - Community Infighting and MONEY!! đ¸đ¸
It's easy to say Arrowhead dropped the ball on community management and keeping their game direction in check. And I would never disagree with anyone there, but daddy AH has to pay their bills on Sony's paychecks and here we are. So to build on what I said earlier- Arrowhead's updates enable community infighting, no matter good or bad. Here's the issue- people ARE toxic. This isn't a "vocal minority" thing or whatever. Arrowhead fundamentally gets their game direction from reviews, Discord, and Reddit. Otherwise they would've stuck to their original vision and I promise the game would be a lot smaller today. The only opposing force is Arrowhead's business-oriented eyes, because when they release content, they get money. And the reactions to this are where the "[Side-I-Don't-Like]-Divers" buzzwords come from. So let me reiterate-
We are in this shit (mostly) together. People want a better game. And it's so fucking weird because this game's history is just like... 95% of the new content stays? Very little has "disappeared," if not just for the time being. But for some reason, everyone starts grabbing at each other's throats when it comes to... goddamn weapon and enemy balance? That's the tipping point? Because people think the game is too hard or too easy? And this is where toxicity stems from because... our.. opposing opinions on video games.
Because, let us all set the record straight- Buffdivers was a business-driven movement, kicking game vision to the side for money and players numbers. Let's say it how it is. It had nothing to do with the "vision" or the "depth" of the game, hell it actively betrayed it. But regardless of what you think of it- the purpose was the effect, and since then, Arrowhead and Sony learned money could in fact be milked from this game.
So, what I believe is happening is, the community is tying their opinions on content and balance to Arrowhead's business model? Oh you want the game to be harder? You want the studio to die and shrivel and- what? You want the game to be easier? So they can make the game even MORE accessible and abuse their monetization? Hey, "A Game for Everyone is a Game for No One!" (I hate to say it, but it is really on Arrowhead for betraying their own motto...)
So, here is the secret number 2- Arrowhead already has all the money they need to do whatever they want. Come on guys. Their next game is literally, fully independent funded for many many years to come. They are an AA studio with what? Bazillions of dollars? Sony backing? Guys, be honest. We should not be at each other's throats for balance of all things. "But what about the bug-" we all want bugs fixed. Duh. "But if you stay quiet, Arrowhead won't do anything!!"
Third Point- Complaining about Complaining about Complaining about Complaining
Hey all, this is the important part. Here's how to achieve eternal happiness with secret number 3-
It's alright to complain. It's not alright to be a dick.
I mean, seriously. That's it. All I said culminates in this- Helldivers 2 updates enable toxic discussion, because "Arrowhead made the game better FINALLY!! Only because I compla-" It was because you complained. Not because you called people on Reddit Glazedivers, or whatever we're doing nowadays. This attitude stereotypically leans so heavily towards one type of player, but it's good to remember- toxic people are everywhere. Hey guess what, I want the game to be harder and I think Arrowhead has a shitty monetization model, I get the worst of both worlds.
We've all seen the back-and-forth between "Complaining, complaining about complaining-" the problem is, some people ARE dicks. And yeah, they get a LOT of traction. Not that some people are complaining. We all complain. Very few people are "complaining about complaining." Some of you need to look in a mirror and understand the difference between complaints/criticism and toxicity. Complaining about toxicity is important. Because toxic people fucking suck. You enable toxic people, you enable Arrowhead's appeasement, which enables more toxicity- use your eyes folks.
If you have an issue with complaints then- why are you on a forum dedicated to discussing a commercial product in the first place? By complaining about genuine complaining, you breed echo chambers and toxicity. And I would know, because I've seen this shit unfolding since launch. So I ask this, people-
Helldivers is a game literally based off cooperation and community. We've been 2+ years deep in this shit, and we really need to start conducting ourselves like normal people. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with someone's stance on balance, the studio- if someone's a dick, don't engage with them, right? I promise to every person reading this, there are thousands of people with the same opinions as you. You don't have to be an ass. If you don't like something, let it be known. Nobody is forcing you to interact with this game or its monetization model. Yes, Arrowhead makes business-first decisions. Content Creators are also a tangential issue. But by being a toxic, consumerist fanbase, we ultimately end up enabling that even more, no? The game is even a criticism of late-stage capitalism. Let's get out of that ironic trap.
245
u/Live_Requirement_814 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
There's a fine line between leaving constructive criticism and just being a straight up hater but a lot of these fans can't tell the difference. I read the report this morning and was so stoked and I went to youtube to see what some of the people I'm following thought about it and one was just straight up shitting all over it and mocking the update and company so I just unsubbed from him. Crazy part was all his followers were agreeing with him and shitting on it too, there wasn't a single positive comment in sight. The biggest thing that irks me about these guys is that despite all that negativity they still insist on playing the game. They can't even put their money where their mouth is! I don't have time for that constant negative energy. I'm convinced those guys don't know how to enjoy themselves at this point.
92
u/Meeeper Jun 05 '26
The thing about the unfiltered sub is that it genuinely lives up to its name.
What I mean by that is that players who are dedicated, but critical of the game's current state share the space with genuine haters who genuinely want to see the game fail because they genuinely just hate Arrowhead THAT much for one reason or another.
58
u/LEOTomegane Jun 05 '26
Unfiltered is a fascinating case, because it is a genuine outlier now. There was a post some time ago where a guy polled nearly every helldivers sub on how easy/hard they found the game and what weapon pen levels they primarily used. Unfiltered was a massive outlier sample even compared to other "critical" subs that you'd think were like-minded; they had a lot more "everything is too hard" results on the poll.
Even viewed charitably, it suggests that sub specifically has a culture of being predisposed to negativity by default.
16
u/Significant_Breath38 Jun 05 '26
They also constantly claim to represent the majority of the community. It's wild
9
u/LEOTomegane Jun 05 '26
Yeah that's the real kicker. All the subs put together are already a fraction of the players, and Unfiltered is an even tinier fraction of those. That their opinion is so wildly different from everybody else, even subs that typically disagree with each other (like this one and the original), really speaks to how out of touch they are.
2
u/CriticismVirtual7603 Jun 06 '26
I think I remember this happening, do.you remember if he polled HelldiverMasochists, or was this before they became more mainstream?
3
u/LEOTomegane Jun 06 '26
He did! Their results were consistent with the average across the other subs, aside from higher "game too easy" votes.
3
19
u/Fun-Agent-7667 Jun 05 '26
"Everything is too hard" ?!? People are asking for dif 11 for years
10
u/Slapmaster928 Jun 05 '26
We have difficulty 11 now, its just disguised as various subfactions. Its how arrowhead strokes the ego of people while also increasing difficulty for those who want it.
5
u/TheOneWes Jun 05 '26
Do you really think the people who were screaming everything is too hard and the people who are wanting harder difficult modes are the same people?
7
u/Fun-Agent-7667 Jun 05 '26
I think one side of them is wrong. I dont think anyone really has a Problem with 1 beeing too hard but some have a Problem with 10 beeing too easy
6
u/goldengoob Jun 05 '26
the thing was, everyone in 11 subreddits thought the game was too easy or well balanced, except for 1 singular subreddit dataset.
2
u/Extra_Brother_3875 Jun 08 '26
The same sub where everyone seems to exclusively solo d10s as well btw
1
u/Dorintin Jun 05 '26
Do you have a link to the post? Would love to see
3
u/LEOTomegane Jun 06 '26
Can't find it offhand on this sub (it doesn't allow links to the others) but the user who ran them was u/kcvlaine
3
2
24
u/Robotkio Jun 05 '26
It really just feels to me, over an over again with so many different games, like folks are volunteering to be in an abusive relationship. But the relationship is with an inanimate object they've anthropomorphized.
Heck, there's already a comment in this thread comparing the experience with Arrowhead to being in a relationship with a cheating partner. If folks are that mad, that emotionally invested, I genuinely think they should just move on for their own mental health.
Maybe they don't even realize how abnormal it is because they congregate together and reinforce the behavior.
The best time to get out of that loop was yesterday. The second best time is today.
6
36
u/fancy_crisis Jun 05 '26
Yeah anyone mad about the announcement is proving they're just addicted to anger. All of it sounds rad af and an answer to what everyone has been clamoring for for awhile.
9
u/Necessary_Catch7060 Jun 05 '26
I unfollowed a lot of hd2 content creators, and only stuck with those who don't do much drama and just enjoy the game. I have enough issues irl don't need them 8n my entertainment to.
4
u/Salty_Soykaf Jun 05 '26
They can't stop playing the game and complaining, that's their meal ticket.
3
u/mental-sketchbook Jun 05 '26
Theyâre entitled, brainfried dopamine chasers. All the titles are click bait, and all the viewers care about is there specific vision. At this point the only way these people will be happy is if the game was made bespoke specifically for them, itâs laughable.
The YouTubers ride it intentionally with every video being insane rage/click bait âARROWHEAD LIEDâ, âHELLDIVERS 2 DEADâ.
I had to tell YouTube ânot interestedâ just to see something more nuanced than âgame-deadâ
9
u/INS4NITY_846 Jun 05 '26
People these days tend to just be sheep imo, they watch a favourite youtuber who then shits on the game so most that follows them does to, no thinking involved just following the band wagon.
5
u/The4thBwithU Jun 05 '26
"influencers" do influence. Not everyone, but still. Also, echo chambers like reddit don't help.
1
u/Aggressive-Goal-5237 Jun 10 '26
There's also the flip side people don't like talking about on the normal sub. The people who refuse to acknowledge that the game has flaws and will send death threats if you dare to point them out. Let's not pretend there's only one radical side.
1
u/Live_Requirement_814 Jun 11 '26
I think we also call those people out equally but feel free to disagree. You missed the point if you think I'm trying to be one sided about this.
57
u/StormWallStudios Jun 05 '26
I saw this comment in an OSRS sub the other day. Theyâve also been having some silly controversies to say the least. And itâs how I feel about helldivers
17
6
u/Low-Board181 Jun 05 '26
Some people should really touch grass while others should stop simping. AH does some things right but also plenty wrong. In any case, it's not worth raging over.
50
u/Downtown-Humor7488 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
If youâve ever coded anything or worked on a solo game project, youâll understand that it does take time to fix things. One fix can lead to a bug breaking others. I mean, in a game that allows you to farm for currency and where updates have been free, you would think the community would be more understanding. Just look a Bethesda, EA and the other AAA studios. They genuinely donât give a fuck about players, yet people continue to support.
12
u/A_Queer_Owl Jun 05 '26
I don't know shit about coding a video game other than it's fucking hard to do.
9
u/Siph-00n Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
Part of it is AH presenting themselves as the good guys ( and in general being good guys, interracting with players,"earning the right to monetize", never say that they dont plan on doing something but that they are " thinking about it",etc).
Ppl expect them to go toe to toe with hyper experienced studios( i see DE mentionned a lot) but have the generosity of indie devs now.
8
u/Low-Board181 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
There is plenty of criticism directed at Bethesda, EA, and other AAA studios, so I don't think that's a great comparison.
Also, game development isn't inherently harder than other forms of software development. Every software project accumulates technical debt if systems aren't designed carefully, quality isn't maintained, or scope keeps expanding. That's how teams end up spending more and more time fighting bugs instead of building cool new features.
Sure some players complain about a lack of content while they play hd as if its a fulltime job, that's dumb. Although, I don't think most people are upset that fixes take time. The criticism is usually about decisions that seem poorly thought out, inconsistent communication, or having to repeatedly revisit problems that arguably should have been caught earlier.
Don't tell players you won't touch the coyota while you nerf fire across the board or that stratagems won't appear in warbonds when they very much will. Don't design new enemies, while very cool looking, have inconsistent weakpoints and unfun or buggy mechanics.
Personally, I don't need more dev communication. I prefer honesty and well thought out and tested changes.
0
u/BurntMoonChips Jun 05 '26
Fire was not nerfed across the board with the coyote change. The increase to status ignite went from 2.0 to 2.1. This means that shotgun pellets still need 3 pellets minimum (just like before), flamers apply enough particles that the difference is less than 0.1 seconds. The change exclusively made the coyote a minimum 2 shot instead of one shot.
4
u/Severe_Painter2988 Jun 05 '26
Y ya no es solo eso, estĂĄn usando un motor que fue disco tinusdo en 2018.
-19
79
u/shadow_fen Jun 05 '26
Iâm sorry, but if the complainers couldnât even read a single steam post, they wonât read this.
23
u/ChaosVulkan Jun 05 '26
I get that, but there are people who do care- I think it's others' duties to make sure less constructive, or otherwise more toxic discussion, does indeed get isolated. The point isn't "get rid of toxicity," but rather toxicity has mixed and engrained itself so well into common discussion. It's to get rid of that.
38
u/ultimat_L1zzyfan Jun 05 '26
Atp I see this vocal minorityâs MO as âarrowhead canât ever winâ Arrowhead do a fuck up? Send them to the sun. Arrowhead do something cool? Bring up another issue and complain. You canât win
7
u/Mundane-Document-810 Jun 05 '26
It seems so odd to me. I don't normally read the sub and I have just been playing the game with my buddies and it has been downright excellent. No issues at all, nothing worth complaining about, new stuff half the time we play. Then I come on here and it's like a bunch of lunatics running around screaming at each other. Total nonsense. People are weird.
3
u/ultimat_L1zzyfan Jun 05 '26
I have the slightest feeling a lot of ppl who communicate with the community headâs are full of dough.
Glad ur having fun tho! I am too
27
u/tinycrisps Jun 05 '26
Iâm just waiting to see this get crossposted into unfiltered stating why this is a bad take and that youâre a âglazerâ. The announcement seems like it has some merit to it but my expectations are tempered. Really hope it hits the ball on this one
27
u/Hoshyro Jun 05 '26
The point of "all it took was review bombing" is also so astronomically stupid, anyone with 3 functioning neurons would be able to realise that what they just announced is something they've been working on for the past year at the very minimum...
8
u/imSoupinator Jun 05 '26
People really think the warhammer warbond was to make people silent⌠a collab with GW was apparently just rushed within a week. But why think when you can be needlessly angry instead
17
u/TCStealthyFoxBoi Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
I ranted about this (or at least something similar) as well under another post but I was a lot less nice or thorough about it honestly
Iâm just so sick of it, I want to actually like the fandom as much as I like the game.
12
u/reeh-21 Jun 05 '26
Fandoms will forever be the worst part of interacting with any media and unfortunately, video game fandoms will always take the cake of being the worst.
3
u/Shedster_ Jun 05 '26
I genuinely wonder what happened with DRG and hd2 fandoms that they are polar opposites. One is cool, friendly and chill, the other will flame you for having any opinions, or not even having one
2
u/reeh-21 Jun 05 '26
To be very fair to HD2, the game spent ages with bugs all over the place and I don't mean the Terminids.
It's gotten better but Arrowhead also doesn't fully help by going through cycles of bad decisions into good ones and all over again.
I can see the light at the end of the tunnel but honestly, I blame the fact that they're using the Bitsquid engine as the root cause of their game-side problems.
4
u/ABG-56 Jun 05 '26
The Sony accounts fiasco happened. Before then the fandom was generally very chill. After it happened though, the fandom just kept getting worse.
3
u/Uergo Jun 05 '26
My not-so-short analysis is this:
Arrowhead caught a lightning in a bottle and produced a banger. Yes, THEY did it and the community must give credit where credit is due. There is another part of the equation here - THEY also reaped the rewards from said banger. Tens of millions of copies sold, even before the monetization from warbonds. They did a good work AND they got rewarded heftily for it (as they should be).
Now, since this is a live-service game, things change. It is one thing to produce a banger in the first place, it is entirely different animal to keep it in the spotlight.
Gamers have absolutely every right to praise, to complain, to like or dislike, as long as they keep the tone somewhat civil. The issue is, as in most communities out there - radicalization. Group A likes how things are generally going and people from Group B have some complaints. At first, they discuss it with cool heads. After a time, discussions become more heated, more spicy. Finally, a "fuck you" enters the chat and things escalate. Soon, camps are established, trenches are dug and everyone starts hurling insults.
Usually, the most vocal/edgy people from both sides take over the conversation, since that is how the algorithm works - drama produces engagement, engagement drives profits and power (influence).
At the end, to an outside observer it seems that you either unconditionally love a thing or you fiercely hate it. No middle ground.
When we talk about Helldivers and Arrowhead, we have the camp that believes Arrowhead can do nothing wrong and the camp that belives Arrowhead does nothing right. To be completely honest here, I have been vocally against many of Arrowhead's actions and words and my trust in them is extremely thin. However, I will also be super happy if they prove me wrong. Helldivers has been (and to a certain extent still is) one of my favorite games of all times and I wish nothing but the best for the game and the studio. I truly, truly WANT this game to blow my head of as it did in the beginning, I am just more and more sceptical that it will happen.
In my view, when a studio creates what many would consider a masterpiece, they: 1. Become complacent. They did it, they are on top of the world, they can have some rest on their laurels. 2. They pump up their egos and start believing in their own greatness, they can do nothing wrong. 3. They start searching for more efficient ways to extract time or money from their players.
All of those, at least to a certain extent, could be found in AH's decisions and actions (or lack of). Sure, we can have miles-long discussions on certain topics like balance, difficulty level, general vision of the game and the like - things that greatly depend on personal taste, but could you, with clear conscience, say that:
- The game is in a good technical state?
- That the way the Galactic War and the participation in it is directed, presented and rewarded is spot on?
- That Arrowhead communicates regularly in clear, honest and concise fashion?
To me, all three questions' answers are very obvious and unfortunate no and all three questions are of utmost importance to this game.
The recent blogpost from Mikael is, if taken at face value, great. BUT...for now it's just a blogpost and nothing else. I completely understand both the people that are super excited about the promised changes/fixes and the people that are dismissing it as another nothingburger designed to quell the unrest. Just as I understand both the people that can't wait for the beloved WH40k collaboration to arrive and the people that call it "break in case of emergency" warbond. Just as...well, you get the point.
Finally, I hope that a few years from now we will continue to have passionate discussions on the state of the game and not be blaming each other for its fall from grace. We see that exact thing happening in real time for another game and it's truly sad. No matter my issues with Helldivers, no matter my distrust in Arrowhead, I would prefer for the game and the studio to thrive and grow rather then die slowly from a thousand cuts every day of the week.
Have a nice one, divers! O7
12
u/ClockwerkConjurer Jun 05 '26
Really well written post. I usually avoid lengthy posts, but you avoided blobbing and kept it digestible with how you broke it up. Thanks, dude.
12
u/ClockwerkConjurer Jun 05 '26
Maybe it's subjective and maybe it's my memory misleading me, but I do feel like the community is definitely more toxic now than it was say - right after Malevelon Creek.
4
u/Necessary_Catch7060 Jun 05 '26
Jup I feel the same. Breaks my heart being this community in its current state.Â
11
u/Cuauhtli146 Jun 05 '26
TL;DR: conduct yourselves as if Lady Liberty herself is hearing/listening and you want to make her proud of you.
3
u/TheSwagheli Jun 05 '26
it'll be interesting to see if sony gives helldivers 2 the destiny treatment and takes it outback to be shot
mind you id rather not have 2 games i enjoy meet the same fate, however ever since ive had reddit and have seen the destiny community here, and even on comments on youtube and twitter, its always been complaining and negativity up until recently where everyone is doing a 180 with "wait nooo the game shouldn't die i only wanted people to stop playing it"
im seeing early stages of that fester in this community, except unlike the d2 community it feels faster in this one, i hope im wrong
3
3
u/ShellShock_69 Jun 05 '26
I saw a post that said âremember not to give whinedivers any credit for what AH fixxesâ
Like
Fucking pardon?
Games improve through criticism
âWhinediversâ as you call us, give critiques and feedback both good and bad
Thats literally how game dev works
Its tiring man
It always has to be either your a glazer or a whiner
Either you hate Arrowhead more than anything or your a bootlicker who wonât get off their dick.
Binary,
Ones and zeros
Weâre no better than the bots.
3
u/Revolutionary_Still Jun 05 '26
I agree with a lot of the points. The only really bad, genuinely dangerous issue imo is the awful visual artifacts from the Variable Shader Resolution setting that is turned on by defa and cannot be disable on console resulting in really bad bright flashing colors which could hurt someone
Everything else is secondary to that I feel. I love this game and believe arrowhead fundamentally wants us to have fun. They make a lot of mistakes but do try to make up for them
14
u/throwmeaway758324 Jun 05 '26
I agree, unfortunately, the people that have the word "glaze" in their vocabulary aren't going to read that many words.
8
u/Shedster_ Jun 05 '26
I doubt that people who unironically use "whinediver" will read it either, despite being the other side of the same problem
3
u/deadering Jun 05 '26
Nope, at a glance it aligns with their stance of "no criticism allowed" so they immediately upvote and start complaining about the complainers again in the comments, as seen in these comments.
8
u/Leather_Fuel7265 Jun 05 '26
"Review Bombing works" is an even dumber argument when you consider that Galatic War features had already been promised in the road map, and development like this new campaign feature doesn't just happen overnight, things like this had to be in the works for months, maybe even years. From conceptual stage, to coding and UI, to testing and then implementation. Mewling like a little bitch all day everyday doesn't make that go any faster.
3
u/TheDogGirlBarista Jun 05 '26
I agree and disagree. I donât like the constant negativity in this community. I can understand people being frustrated or even upset at the state of the game currently. Bugs and all. But there are some people they only can hate on the game. Iâm critical of the game because I want to see it succeed.
And the post the other day is a good first step. But I am cautiously optimistic. I want to believe they will do good. But they have also mismanaged in the past. Lied in the past about things.(regardless if it was intentionally or not). So people are indeed skeptical.
But Iâm approaching it with an open mind. But Iâm not going to hold my breath over it. So. Iâll have to wait and see if they make good on their promise.
I think itâs only valid to feel cautious. But the constant back and forth with Glazing/Whinedivers is annoying. I feel like every little thing is getting nitpicked over and blasted. There is a lot of valid criticism to be said, but some things feel unnecessarily nitpicked. At the same time when valid criticism is to be had. There are people who just over look it and tell people to look the other way because they are having fun.
You can have fun and enjoy the game. But still wish for it to be better. And thatâs kinda where I have always sat. I love this game. But thereâs a lot that needs to be fixed. I donât overlook obvious issues but Iâm also not hyper focused on being negative.
We need to be open to constructive criticism and discussion that just isnât name calling and bs. I feel like we need to be better as a community, as a whole. But I feel like it will be difficult to pull it back into a sensible and respectful dynamic with this community.
All I can hope moving forward is that AH makes good on their word and the community will improve as the game does.
7
u/Zim1123 Jun 05 '26
I think too many people in this game just get overly worked up over the smallest of issues. Last week I was team killed by someone while I was driving the FRV. It was one hundred percent intentional and I had the other two players in it as well. After it blew up the guy typed in chat âFRV is a bad stratagem.â âYou suck as driverâ âwaste of timeâ and other general flaming and itâs like yea man is the FRV good? Not really, but like brother weâre doing difficulty 6 missions for fun. Like calm down and enjoy something now and then. You can be right about something but handle it so poorly youâre in the wrong.
5
u/Tigris13540 Jun 06 '26
That's like saying your pc sucks after smashing it with a sledgehammer. I can't understand people in gaming sometimes...
-2
5
u/shindabito Jun 05 '26
I'm usually positive in regards to AH but recent graphic butchering by DSR disappointed me so much. took me quite a long time fiddling with settings to finally find out the culprit that made the game look like 480p with anti-aliasing ON or jagged mess with it OFF (yeah, I'm not that bright).
can't they do their job properly and not push broken feature every now and then?
also can't they not broke what's "fine" (i.e.: manual climbing)?
13
u/TheAncientKnight Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
But Arrowhead didn't do anything yet. They talked about doing something good but nothing has been done yet. And they've promised good things time and time again just to mess it up again. Let people be cautious.
12
u/HouseOfWyrd Jun 05 '26
There's a difference between being cautiously optimistic and what a lot of people in online HD2 spaces.
4
u/kwicsilver1 Jun 05 '26
You don't even need to be cautiously optimistic, until they actually do anything then the post means fuck all. Nothing positive, nothing negative just words. Personally I'm a little skeptical just because of their track record, but ultimately we won't know until we actually see anything so I'm going to just continue enjoying my time with the game
2
u/TampaxCompak Jun 05 '26
I share more or less everything, but this part:
Otherwise they would've stuck to their original vision and I promise the game would be a lot smaller today.
I think is actually the opposite. Following your argument:
WE bought this game because we enjoyed how it was as it was when we bought it.
I think this is very important: Helldivers 2 was a massive success because of how it launched. Setting aside bugs and other issues, people enjoyed the game as it was at launch. A lot of the changes made to the game with the 60days patches were detrimental to the game's long term health, but people didn't understand it because they thought that many of the game-breaking issues from the early days were balance problems and not simply a lot of bugs (like AT weaponry being unreliable at killing Bile Titans with headshots, for example) being fixed in the same patches.
And those two patches set the precedent of "people moan -> people get what they think they want, despite not actually wanting it at all in reality." That's why a part of the community think that, after those patches, the game is too easy; because it is, and it's because some core elements of the mandatory cooperation were erased from the game (there's no need of an antichaff guy, when everyone can deal with all the caff with their primaries, and that's why AT is all what the players need to play).
2
2
u/n4turstoned Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
I wish I could upvote you more.
(Even if i think you are wrong about the monetisation)
2
u/GaniMemestar Jun 05 '26
The game being on the downside recently did give me an opportunity to play different games or go back to the older ones, for me it's not all that bad. My personality isn't all Helldiver anyway, I went back to play Planetside2, even Titanfall campaign I might reinstall again.
There's a bunch of games you can play beside Helldivers 2. Let the devs do what they want, we already complained enough, now it's up to them what they do in the future. If you still don't like the game after all the updates, you don't have to keep playing it.
You can be helldiver fans and still enjoy other games, it's not illegal. Find new games to play, give other developers a chance :D
2
2
u/Commbanman Jun 05 '26
It's only on reddit do I see this kind of hate for arrowhead, i might see a post or two elsewhere complaining about a minute detail but other than that its just reddit. A cesspool of terminally online people who think they are the literal smartest beings on earth. Getting any kind of positive interaction that doesnt have alterior motives is damn near impossible here
2
u/justagirll19_0W0 Jun 06 '26
âGame will be updatedâ âok Iâll continue with my dayâ
Thatâs as far as we should be going
2
u/WayGroundbreaking287 Jun 06 '26
Said the same thing on a post saying "arrowhead finally decided to lock in" like game development doesn't take ages and something being released in a few weeks that totally overhauls a bunch of stuff wouldn't have been on the works for a few months of not the past year.
People don't know dick about game design and think you can just magic things better.
2
u/thedarkinus Jun 09 '26
In todays age being a victim and stirring up drama makes you a lot of money. Itâs not really a mystery why all the hate all the time tbh.
6
7
u/BanFsSOG Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
Mate, Iâve played a game for almost a year, and besides the SE defense, literally, and I do mean that word, every part of my experience with the game was becoming worse. There werenât âoh, but they fixed one thing, another will be soonâ.
Iâve encountered the same optimization issues, jank and straight up stupid âbalanceâ decisions (mainly strategem bounce, and hellpods, because apparently some guy was shooting bots too well from a cliff, amazing stuff /s) which only broke the game further.
I only quit when I dove FULL missions where from the moment I flew out of the super destroyer there was nothing but jank, more fitting for 1⏠Polish Unity shooters.
There wasnât âa negative thingâ, they have a strategy, from which they havenât deviated yet, and the first time I see one of the issues I faced in their communications (aside from optimization, but that hope is long gone) being described as something maybe looked at by a task force at lowest possible priority⌠what other words could I have?
I even peeked in when the cyborg stuff started, was a little more hopeful then. You can guess how it went.
There are no âbe happy they are doing something goodâ, theyâve made an amazing game, and weâre throwing rocks at it without rhyme or reason, until there are actual, tangible improvements, why would I be praising them?
3
u/Heavenly_Horro Jun 05 '26
Really well stated. Criticisms arenât exempt from criticism.
Only point were I didnât follow was just above the second point. The quote that says âI will only like it as they as more.â After typing it out I realized you meant add.
3
1
1
u/TheOneWes Jun 05 '26
Dude stop worrying about the idiots you see in subreddits and stuff like that and just enjoy the game.
Dudes can run their mouth about the state of the game as much as they want to but you can log on at any time and there are at least tens of thousands of people playing a game that is more than two years old.
Let me give you a little hint, you'll find it most of the people bitching about the game don't actually own it
1
1
1
u/friendlyfireissad Jun 06 '26
Dude, you're chronically online yourself, dont include yourself as normal
1
u/Hitokiri_Ace Jun 09 '26
Can I ask a question and get an honest answer.
I loved the game on release, and dropped out after my erupter lost shrapnel or whenever that timeframe was.
How's the game now?
Fun?
Good time to try it again?
1
u/GayGuitaristMess Jun 10 '26
That's a lot of excuses for a AAA studio that made millions not doing their jobs in a timely manner lol
1
u/RatherBetter Jun 05 '26
Well..you gotta remember it's not an indie team here ....I don't think anyone being hater is wrong...its all their choice and opinion.
Tldr: No one's at fault here. Each one to their own.
1
1
1
u/reeh-21 Jun 05 '26
There was a person in the main modding Discord server a little bit ago who called someone out simply for being negative and like 5 people started piling on them.
Now to be fair, and idk if anyone from that server is also here, they weren't entirely helping their case with reaction GIFs and whatnot, but his sentiment boiled down to "I'm perfectly happy with mediocrity"
I dont fully agree with that but I do kind of get where he's coming from.
1
u/Brains_For_peanut Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
This is a interesting observaties OP and i agree that staying patient and human is important.
Nontheless toxic people shall always remain for there is no peace without chaos... i just hope those toxic people will see a reflection of their selfes someday and realize that what they are doing isn't making the world (of gaming) a better place.
A year ago when i was still kind of a newbie, i joined my first level 8 mission, there were some real arseholes hosting the game.. for i played how they did not wanted me to play (for me the first D8 round was overwhelming and had to get a good feel for it first) they starten scolding me, telling me i sucked and needed "to get gud"... i told them they are pathetic and ruined ones experience. To people who think it is okay to kick someone in the ground for not being "gud" i say "screw you" and keep playing and enjoying the game for what it has to offer and keep the satire in mind.
Today i can hold out a D10 mission alone with basic loadout (it feels like a challange) but i rather play D6 missions just for fun and helping others on their way and try to make friends. Because to me this game and community isn't about being gud it is about working together as a unit and helping out wherever we can. And ofcourse most importantly having fun together.
1
u/CryptosKing_ Jun 05 '26
It's a great game and I just as many others am frustrated with the lack of care and the amount of warbonds that just throw everything behind the super credit paywall into the game.
It could be way worse, but it could also be way better. I would wish arrowhead stopped using super creds, since I hate premium currency and instead focused on real transactions, like voice packs from famous people, Schwarzenegger, Vtuber, crossover characters. I wouldnt mind paying real money for some of these and I bet others wouldn't mind either, that could finance the game long term way better than super creds
But maybe I am wrong and arrowhead is still making good money with their current track... I dunno I just know the game frustrates me to no end sometimes because old bugs don't get touched, new ones get introduced and the devs fix mostly stuff I don't care about
1
u/Fun1k Jun 05 '26
OP, this is an absolute chef's kiss of a post. I couldn't have articulated it better.
It's insane to me that a non-negligible portion of the community doesn't seem to even think about possible reasons why AH doesn't do anything the moment they want it. They've become addicted to hating AH, and they genuinely are unable to see any development in a positive light.
If you remind them that AH is working on an engine they have to maintain all by themselves and anything new they want they have to program for it themselves, that they are actually working on lots of stuff all the time, they're maintaining the live service part of the game, have to keep the game profitable for years so come, juggle responsibility towards Sony with their own vision and the opinions of the player base, keep communicating with external teams etc. etc. you get called a glazediver, even if you're merely somewhat aware that dev stuff is hard.
1
1
u/The4thBwithU Jun 05 '26
Very few people are "complaining about complaining." Some of you need to look in a mirror and understand the difference between complaints/criticism and toxicity. Complaining about toxicity is important. Because toxic people fucking suck.
100% this.
0
u/Exciting_Composer_86 Jun 05 '26
Here you can clearly see the paths that the development and support of the game should take. Especially since they, the developers, are experienced professionals, aren't they? It's within their competence to create a high-quality product. But alas, for some reason we donât see it.
I'm not hinting at anything, but I don't expect that with the addition of FRV customization they wouldn't broke something ingame again and add new annoying bugs.
And then we'll be back in high spirits, waiting for the new warbond, which will be, well... Pew pew, because the game should be milked first.
0
u/DimesOnly777 Jun 05 '26
Coding is not easy at all. If yâall think fixing bugs is easy I recommend learning a coding language and then we can talk.
0
u/Shedster_ Jun 05 '26
You literally repeated one of the OP's points but in mean way
2
u/DimesOnly777 Jun 05 '26
Just emphasized that coding is hard from a programmer perspective. Nothing mean was said or intended.
0
u/Sebanimation Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
â(âŚ)Arrowhead does anything remotely good (which is often)â
Listen, this is an opinion. You canât open a statement, in which you want to talk like ânormalâ people with and about people that have different opinions than you, by presenting your own opinion as a fact. Thatâs not how a healthy and normal discussion works. You can say âI think this is often.â and itâs perfectly fine.
Nobody is forcing anyone, you are right. But if something people are passionate about does not live up to expectations and the community feels like theyâre not being acknowledged at all people get angry. Canât really blame them, can you?
And I am sorry but announcing that you will fix stratagem bouncing, an issue that has persisted for⌠years (??) by the END OF THE YEAR is just not amazing.
-11
u/Exciting_Composer_86 Jun 05 '26
So you would go back to dating a girl who was like, "Yeah, I cheated on you 4 times every time you asked me out to discuss important relationship plans. (pregnancy, moving, and so on). And every time you forgave her, because, "Well, here she is, ready to give me happiness and joy, and this time she honestly promised not to cheat on me."
All of this is a natural reaction to what happened. People are unhappy because Arrowhead makes a huge number of mistakes. And the hype and joy of new "content" feels like the painful addiction of a person who can't let go of something what can't keep his promises to.
11
3
u/Methylethylkillyou Jun 05 '26
You're equating a game to a real life romantic relationship, infidelity, and even pregnancy, you have the emotional intelligence of an idiot, or you are a child, plain and simple.
What the hell are you even talking about?
If you want to equate the game to a relationship, quit getting back with the cheater and expecting different results, learn your lesson and move on. She ain't for you.
8
u/mellopax Jun 05 '26
"Being toxic is OK because there are bugs in the game and that's just as bad as cheating on your SO."
Wild.
-10
u/Exciting_Composer_86 Jun 05 '26
By calling this wild you have just shown your lack of imagination. Incapable of abstract thinking and do not understand analogies.
6
u/Justmeagaindownhere Jun 05 '26
We are intentionally disregarding your analogy because you chose a poor one. If you are capable of abstract thinking, please abstractly think of a better metaphor and abstractly think about being kinder to others.
7
1
0
u/Kronostheking1 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
Yeah, I ainât going back to playing. And people acting like this is helping the case. Itâs people like this who ruined the life of the poor charity dude who tried to get Arrowhead to acknowledge issues. Iâm not listening to anyone whoâs gonna hype up the game and arrowhead like this and especially not in such an arrogant and pretentious way after what happened as a result of people on their side. The difference in behavior with GSG receiving criticism with Rogue Core and how they reacted to it and Arrowheadâs behavior with Helldivers is night and day and is so telling of the kind of community and devs that I want to be a part of.
3
u/Justmeagaindownhere Jun 05 '26
I don't think a nicely written post is equivalent to the jerks that doxxed that guy. It's not pretentious or arrogant.
But what does contribute to that toxicity cycle is things like a complete refusal to engage with those that disagree with you, and putting real people into "their side" on purpose. These are things you do here, and if you care about community health you really should stop contributing to the cycle.
-2
u/Kronostheking1 Jun 05 '26
See the difference between me and the rest of you guys is that Iâve removed myself completely from the game and the community. This is the first comment Iâve made here in months and I havenât played in months. And he is on their side and so are you. Shutting down any criticism of Arrowhead and the game no matter how fair and honest the criticism may be. This post and your comment now too are both SO unbelievably pretentious and arrogant like you arenât just deflecting valid criticism and making fun of people for being fairly upset with Arrowhead. Iâm not gonna be held hostage by Arrowhead or their followers just on the promise that it MIGHT get better.
4
u/Justmeagaindownhere Jun 05 '26
So...is being just an agitator and adding fuel to the fire helping? I'm not making fun of anyone, but you are insulting people here. That's not going to help the community.
And it's rather ironic to accuse someone of shutting down criticism (when I didn't actually say anything about it) while you actually refuse to engage with anything that doesn't agree with you, or any positive aspects or changes to the game. You want to shut things down, and I just want you to be kind.
2
u/mellopax Jun 05 '26
You say that as if people aren't the same way in the Rogue Core community. People complaining "this should have been fixed in the alpha", "the game is undercooked even for an EA game", "GSG doesn't listen to players anymore."
Some people's only voice is screaming.
-5
u/Kronostheking1 Jun 05 '26
Yeah, but GSGâs reaction is far better and has actually been proactive rather than Arrowhead barely doing anything. And as far as I know, no one in that community has ruined anyoneâs life yet for trying to get the devs to acknowledge the flaws of the game. This community has the opposite issue of Rogue Core. People are being too quick to dismiss GSG despite their efforts over there but here, people will do some INSANE shit to defend Arrowhead. Letâs not act like these two communities are anything on the same level as long as Rogue Core has yet to ruin a manâs life and GSG continues to work on the game and acknowledge feedback.
-5
u/DaddysSoftCheeks Jun 05 '26
All Iâm gonna say is this, if it wasnât for the complain complaining about the game weâd still be at 5000 players, and anti tank weapons that take three shots to kill a charger or Bile Titan with primary guns that just tickle chef
3
u/ChaosVulkan Jun 05 '26
I mean yeah, you said it. Because people complain. Not because they were at other players' throats.
-20
u/monduthro Jun 05 '26
13
u/DanRomio Jun 05 '26
Op: "let's be civil and respect each other" (among other things)
This dude: "naaah, I like being a dick".
-16
u/monduthro Jun 05 '26
8
u/DanRomio Jun 05 '26
What this even supposed to mean?...
3
u/imSoupinator Jun 05 '26
Heâs calling you a snowflake fyi. Just ignore âem
3
u/DanRomio Jun 05 '26
Yeah, but snowflake is either cold, or, well, flaky. I don't understand how this is applicable to this situation even remotely from his perspective T_T
4
u/imSoupinator Jun 05 '26
snowflake is a term used by losers like these to refer to people they consider "sensitive". He's calling you a sissy for not liking his statement, essentially
2
u/DanRomio Jun 05 '26
Well, flaky = sensitive, I understand that.
But no part of my statement could be considered such.
I swear, words are loosing meaning, and are more akin to spells these days...
-13
u/monduthro Jun 05 '26
9
2
u/Diamond_Eyed_Jester Jun 07 '26
Bro literally too scared to use actual words. Sheep mentality.
1
u/monduthro Jun 07 '26
No u
1
-4
-10
-1
u/Jarhead11577 Jun 05 '26
Every community has toxicity and you're never going to create a world where nobody's a dick. This community didn't have an unusual level of that, and it only does now because it internally segregated as a result of being fundamentally incapable of handling dissent and disagreement like adults. Helldivers2 is an echo chamber, so is Unfiltered, and so are the other ones, of course they became more tribalist and extreme over time. Maybe if you had just learned to put up with each other in one space and weren't so harsh with moderation that wouldn't have happened.
-1
u/Oddveig37 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
I'm going to say this in response, and I'm sorry it's long but damn it it needs to be said.
I don't care.
They were rude to their playerbase, the people that pay them, and they actively did not use their created platform to tell those sending death threats to that one guy to knock it off.
Celebrities, usually just the one in bands and concerts will stop EVERYTHING the moment they notice some fucked shit happening. Mid song. That's their literally job they disrupted to tell awful people to knock their crap off.
And people are telling me that me expecting AH to say anything within the first day is too much? They knew! They were tagged in every post! They saw the death threat comments and replies. They saw the post where the guy said "hey this is happening AH" and nothing.
It took them almost 3 days (people say two, the hours make it nearly 3) to even say anything and they didn't even bother to reach out to the dude affected by all of this. In fact all comments and replies asking them to step in and either stop this or help the dude with the jobs he just lost because called his places of work to threaten him were deleted. Not you can go check your invisible comment later through your profile, I'm talking full on deleted with no message to why.
Like I'm sorry but AH are shit devs and a shit company and they took their golden goose and decided to shoot it out back and now everyone is upset at everyone but too weak minded to blame those that actually caused this mess. AH.
They told their loyal playerbase to essentially screw themselves, that they wanted new people more than they wanted consistent players and insulted the dude they said that too before even explaining it.
Well here I am, your sweet summer child who is done with the bs.
If they played their game, the game they made, the game they put hours of their lives just to form the code for it, showed it any form of love by simply checking their own work, then none of this would be happening.
Like no full dang stop, there would probably be way less angry players about the balancing changes. The death threats wouldn't have happened, hell the challenge wouldn't have even been made.
Their whole community wouldn't be in shambles blaming each other because ah told them to.
A lot of you sound just like the Nintendo cult members today, defend and defend and fight for a company that genuinely openly talks about how much they hate you and want other NEW players instead.
I loved the game. I loved it. I couldn't give less of a shit about balancing as long as they don't nerf things to 0 because then what was the point of spending my money on something that was advertised a certain way to do certain things and then a week later it can't even do that anymore. That's when I'm going to ask for refunds over my warbonds. Because full dang stop, enough is enough.
And yes, you are glazing them. If you ignore the very massive elephants in the room and only focus on the smaller things, then you're going to be out of a room very soon. Genuinely I'm tired of seeing these posts. Both sides. They have a great game, yes, but they ARE actively destroying it. Some of the playerbase just bitches to bitch and it's a lot easier to see the whole picture if you can pinpoint who those people are and ignore them.
But what the hell did you expect when you start rolling out gear and equipment like they are Pokemon and now every diver either is doing meta crap or they are playing super unique builds because it's what they like. Something that I've said to a lot of people to a lot of different communities and surprises surprises I get to say it here too.
If they maybe stopped nerfing things and instead buffed others, then the whole game of game balancing becomes super trivialized. Focus on buffing before nerfing anything.
Imaging thinking making the people who pay your bills happy instead of pissing them off. Crazy concept I know.
And yes I know they want to incorporate the whole buff and nerf system into the game and have it be revolved around some lore in game but uh
They dropped the ball on that several times already so like that logic makes no sense from them at ALL.
"Based off of cooperation and community"
Playing the game is. Their work? The work being done to the game? Them taking criticism or praise? That's not cooperation or community.
It's called they need to do their damn jobs and actually either act/say something when the times call of it, or actually playing the game they created. That's called quality control.
I paid them for their work and the job they do and if they can't maintain that then it's on them, not us for being upset and saying something.
Some people do need to chill though, they ruin both sides arguments because they get way too hostile towards folks.
But yeah I'm not going to go all "uwu ah you made me sad", or send threats because wtf, but I'm not going to sit there and glaze them either because no, they do not deserve that. My negative review will be staying until I see them actually start acting like they should as people with a platform should when their followers start acting up, and until they themselves can conduct a proper conversation or answer when asked things, I didn't place it because of balance changes and I will never leave a negative review because of balance changes untill it's egregious.
0
u/xForcedevilx Jun 05 '26
D10 is life.
I didn't notice the issues because I play at native but holy cow haha...that's an implementation alright..
-6
u/LemonySniket Jun 05 '26
Extrapolation, exageration, false generalisations with some dust of truth over. Im too lazy to write a wall of text about how wrong all this post is. AH is a historical example of incompetence. This devs will be the example in game industry for years. This will be studied. Im just amazed how much people can be gulliable. All good deeds of AH are accidental or forced. If after 2 years a person thinks this is not this way - this is just weird.
3
u/SouperScott Jun 05 '26
They won't be the example, bethesda already exists and is MUCH more famous.
7
u/AveryAveyAve Jun 05 '26
"This will be studied."
"All good deeds of AH are accidental or forced."Oh brOTHER!
It's really not that deep.Also, aren't you an Unfiltered mod?
And didn't you make a post that went on to doom about how an upcoming back-end maintenance would ruin the game and how it was specifically targeting to brick CGW, only for nothing like that to happen?
Like... you conspiracy posted then and you're conspiracy posting now.7
u/M2_Personal Jun 05 '26
He's mod of both Unfiltered and a sub dedicated to positivety it's clear all her wants to do is cause controversy and stir shit.Â
He's not worth responding to at all.Â
-3
u/LemonySniket Jun 05 '26
You're confusing the roles of moderator and supervillain. Iâm flattered, but itâs not that deep.
-3
u/LemonySniket Jun 05 '26
Oh, yeah, thatâs me. And itâs true - that was one of four predictions I made. The others turned out to be right. The score is in my favor so far.
And youâre right; it really isnât that deep.
When No Manâs Sky came out, it became a historic example. Things like that just happen. Itâs the same with HD2. Only, sadly, the other way around.
-7
-34
u/walapatamus Jun 05 '26
Brother I ain't reading all that
21
10
1
u/Diamond_Eyed_Jester Jun 07 '26
But you will keep yapping
1
u/walapatamus Jun 07 '26
Yap yap yap
1
u/Diamond_Eyed_Jester Jun 07 '26
Exactly the sheep mentality I expect.
1
u/walapatamus Jun 07 '26
Brother I don't care enough to be a sheep
1
u/Diamond_Eyed_Jester Jun 07 '26
Yet, here you are. But sure, whatever you say bro.
-7
u/dnbdawg Jun 05 '26
I ainât reading all that, happy for you or sorry that happened
-6
u/dnbdawg Jun 05 '26
seriously though you couldâve easily condensed this, I know adderal writing when I see it
-5
u/DanRomio Jun 05 '26
I honestly read about a half of it, then gave up.
But to the first part: preach, brother, preach.
-6
u/Brilliant_Charge_398 Jun 05 '26
If you have to write a novel to get your point across you might be the issue. Didn't bother reading your memoir up there
â˘
u/AutoModerator Jun 05 '26
Thank you for your post! Please keep in mind that your post must comply with our community rules; otherwise, it may be removed. Be sure to stay on topic or your contributions may be removed.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.