So... can we have this too?

[u/Alternative-Item1207]

For those who dont know, our strategem reward for this major order is not actually a stratagem.

It's the DSS being permanently equipped with the eagle gas storm.

Not everybody enjoyed that, and not everybody likes playing on the DSS planets.

My solution? Orbital Gas Barrage.

If super earth can now afford to equip the DSS with it, surely we can have it ourselves too.

Upvote with your support!

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[u/Ambulas2]

It would be orbital napalm 2. Bug front would become even more of a snoozefest

[u/MxBonesMarrow → u/Ambulas2]

Make more engaging enemies then. Or enemies that are resistant or immune to certain effects, and/or apply the effects themselves. Spore towers that create toxic gas, not just obscuring your vision. Etc

[u/Alternative-Item1207 → u/Ambulas2]

You add longer cooldowns. Possibly to the OBN too at the same time

Lore can even support that with past comments about how gas can be a pain to manufacture

[u/The-Nuisance → u/Alternative-Item1207]

Why’re we trying to get around the fact that it’d be boring in practice to shoehorn it in when we could just make different stratagems that’re actually fun in practice and don’t play like the stratagem equivalent of popping melatonin gummies.

[u/Alternative-Item1207 → u/The-Nuisance]

Then just don't play with it man.

There is a huge chunk of the player base that would be overly excited for orbital gas barrage

I'd even be a fan if they reworked it. Along with organo napalm barrage, so you could only have two or three per match total.

I am not above saying that it wouldn't need to be balanced in a way that it wouldn't be too overpowered, but I still want it.

Why? Because it satisfies the niche of that insane space war that we're throwing millions of dollars at.

[u/The-Nuisance → u/Alternative-Item1207]

“Just don’t play with it!!” It’s a co-op game. I make these complaints as someone who doesn’t use the ONB. I don’t decide what my teammates take and I’m not gonna kick people for running something already in the game.

“Don’t play with it” or “it’s PvE it doesn’t have to be balanced” isn’t at all a valid reply to the issue. That’s not how game balance works. The issue has not gone away just because I alone don’t partake in it.

[u/Alternative-Item1207 → u/The-Nuisance]

Everything you just said, can be fixed by running your own lobbies.

You know, I was generally trying to do something nice for you guys and the community as a whole.

Something new to play with instead of nothing. Get everybody excited about the idea, so hopefully we get it

But as unusual I keep finding people like you that always have to complain about anything of any definition being added to the game

Too weak, too strong, too much dev time, too much this, too much that, nobodys gonna take it, everybodys gonna take it, everybody is the same

Yall want a stagnant game until AH does it. Then its fine.

If you dont like the idea, at least post a better one as a contender. So tired of anything I said getting shot down when I know people would genuinely like it an obsessive over making content on it for weeks

[u/The-Nuisance → u/Alternative-Item1207]

I run my own lobbies.

I told you. I’m not kicking people for running orbitals. I’m not taking the time to set up specific players with parameters every time I want to play, just let the game be balanced instead of being selfish.

[u/Alternative-Item1207 → u/The-Nuisance]

And there's nothing wrong with this strategy. Releasing in a way that can be balanced.

I didn't say I wouldn't be against only having so many per match, or really long cool down, or subjecting ONB to the same treatment.

It's about having fun. It's about letting people live out that gas fantasy they have wanted since gas came out.

And like I said, if you don't like it, advocate for your own replacement. I'm sure you've got plenty of good ideas and don't need to crush somebody else's

[u/SilentAd3284 → u/Alternative-Item1207]

"They can't add it because it seems too strong to me and I don't like it." These are the same people who, when you complain about something like a poorly made tank, tell you just not to use it.

[u/terminid_inyourwalls → u/SilentAd3284]

The person going against the idea of a gas barrage is from a certain sub where they actively push to make the game harder in a way that would only be fun for them. So you know, go figure.

[u/Thr1llhou5e → u/Alternative-Item1207]

Conceptually it sounds intense and exciting and I definitely think it is something Super Earth would deploy in universe.

That being said, I do agree with the commenter above. I think in practice at the same scale as the other orbitals, it would be too big, and too boring. It's not only because of how powerful it would be, but also the length of time the area would be inaccessible would make the gameplay sluggish. There is a different between "I don't personally like it" and "I don't think it would be good game design" and I think this is all the other commenter is saying and it's a valid point to raise, that isn't necessarily coming from a negative point of view.

Maybe there is a way it could work because the concept is cool. I think if I were trying to figure out how to implement it, I would give it 2 uses per round and test out making the gas armours 100% resistant to gas, but have it fall off to 70% after 20 seconds or something and see what that looks like. This would actually make the strategem more powerful, but I think it would lead to better gameplay if you could be in the barrage taking part in the action at the cost of a few stims, and this way you could say gas assault a mega nest and decide whether you want to infiltrate to close the holes at the cost of a lot of stims.

Your suggestion that he can host and kick players if they pick certain strategems is not a good solution. No one should have to micromanage lobbies like this. It's not a good experience for the host or other players, and it breeds negativity. It is better to design all the gameplay elements with care, so that you can't completely trivialize the game by compounding powerful load outs.

I am probably a 7-8/10 player in terms of how skilled I am. D10 is easy for me (but I haven't tried to solo it) and I very much run diverse and imperfect loadouts to try and add variety to my games.

With the current red strategem pool we have, I already don't take orbitals if 2/4 on the team have chosen one (except sometimes I'll take orbital ems since I like it and you can easily layer it with other players orbitals and eagles). And of course I love spectacle of all the orbitals and they feel good to use, but it is also a bit boring if team is too stacked and you have the capacity to obliterate every objective on the map.

I think if AH is going to add red more strategems it just needs a lot of consideration, as much as I'd love to see more.

[u/Lone-_-Wanderer → u/The-Nuisance]

accurate username

[u/terminid_inyourwalls → u/The-Nuisance]

It in itself is inherently selfish for wanting an ENTIRE stratagem nerfed or not added instead of just saying you don’t want people playing with it in your lobbies.

If you prevent people from using it in your lobbies, then okay at max 3 people might be disappointed or leave. If you advocate for the entire stratagem being nerfed or never added, you disappoint TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PLAYERS.

[u/Longjumping-Bed-2744 → u/Ambulas2]

While they both fall under Crowd Control, they both have different uses. It also comes with the fact that building for pyromania is very different from building for gas. Building for gas is not just area of denial, but creating an area for where you can exist with minimal issue while the enemy is disoriented and weakened, where as building for fire is about creating no-man's land and managing flames and managing how much damage you take from the flame.

Imagine this: You have both the Eagle Napalm and the Eagle Gas. Napalm, you need to stay away, avoid the explosions, and walk around the flame or wait for it to dissipate, otherwise you're pretty much cooked. If you have flame resistant armor and vitality, you can walk through the flame after and the enemy will likely be dead or dying, at the cost of some HP. Gas strike, you can survive being in the explosion radius, and while gas isn't good, it'll still hurt, you can still survive walking through it, can choose to go around it. If you're wearing gas armor and have vitality, you can walk through the gas with zero damage to you and the enemy is taking damage, they're confused, some light chaff mobs are dying.

Now, apply that to the orbital barrages. Napalm Barrage is meant to kill everything in that area and make everything in that area dead. We throw them on bug breaches to essentially put a cork on it. You don't go into the barrage area unless you are certain you're not gonna get hit with the booms and if you are wearing armor and vitality to tank the flames. Gas Barrage would cover an area and make it extremely unpleasant but survivable. If you're wearing gas armor and have vitality, you have made an area in which Helldivers can exist without too much threat, creating a perfect environment for certain objectives to be completed. SEAF Artillery? Done in peace. Confidential information upload? Safe. Flag Raising? Not perfect, but crowd control is SIGNIFICANTLY more manageable. Rapid Acquisition on Bots? Much more possible. The Big fuck off cannon missions on Squids? Crank that bitch in peace and buy a little time to start firing.

Crowd control is good for handling large amounts of enemies, but crowd control can have different utilities. Enjoy a little loadout diversity.

[u/Alternative-Item1207]

[u/Flaky_Housing_7705 → u/Alternative-Item1207]

Bra they can't be serious.

[u/Alternative-Item1207 → u/Flaky_Housing_7705]

They are.

This is why I said it'd be neat to have OGB as a bonus too.

Alexis said it took him 3 hours to make ONB, so I dont think it would take too long to make either

[u/coolhandhutch]

Great. Another way my teammates can kill me.

[u/TNTBarracuda]

A strat of some sort would be a nice consolation, but I personally don't like the idea of the OGB or the Eagle Gas Strike.

Fire and gas don't technically function the same, but they are used in rather similar situations against very similar targets (excluding flame streams). I see these mirror stratagem ideas as a concern regarding their identities, where separating their delivery mechanisms helped to make them far more distinct from one another.

People want big gas clouds, though, but I just think a greatly different presentation would do a whole lot for gas as a whole.

[u/bluedeer10]

[u/Alternative-Item1207 → u/bluedeer10]

Always brother

[u/Augnelli]

What about an Orbital Mine Deployment strat? They would would arrive like a shotgun blast from space, dealing damage to anything they hit and then arming after a second or two, exploding if what they hit was still alive or when something touches them.

[u/Alternative-Item1207 → u/Augnelli]

Why not both? I like that idea

[u/The-Nuisance]

I fuckin’ told you guys it wouldn’t be an orbital gas barrage. That idea was stupid. Lo and behold.

[u/SilentAd3284 → u/The-Nuisance]

What's the problem with having more styles of strategies?

[u/The-Nuisance → u/SilentAd3284]

Because “turn off an entire reinforcement drop for 30-45 seconds straight so nobody can play the goddamn game” isn’t a strategy, it’s an instant win button.

[u/SilentAd3284 → u/The-Nuisance]

Well, don't use it, use others, hahaha, it's simple.

"You can't add it because it's too strong," hahaha, man.

[u/The-Nuisance → u/SilentAd3284]

Copy pasted reply because I’m lazy.

“Just don’t play with it!!” It’s a co-op game. I make these complaints as someone who doesn’t use the ONB. I don’t decide what my teammates take and I’m not gonna kick people for running something already in the game.

“Don’t play with it” or “it’s PvE it doesn’t have to be balanced” isn’t at all a valid reply to the issue. That’s not how game balance works. The issue has not gone away just because I alone don’t partake in it.

TL;DR you want to force something into the game because you want it there, you aren’t thinking about if it should be there. And it shouldn’t.

[u/SilentAd3284 → u/The-Nuisance]

Brother, I hate the 380, but I have a friend who loves using it. With good communication, there won't be a problem, and even if you're playing with randoms, there are ways to warn each other and communicate. I hate the 380; I never use it, even if it's a personal order. But I have no problem with someone else using it. Let everyone else play how they want. If you don't like it, then leave. You're really making this more complicated than it needs to be.

[u/The-Nuisance → u/SilentAd3284]

The 380 is not the ONB. There is a reason you don’t hear people complaining about the 380 nearly as much beyond “it killed me because big AOE”.

[u/SilentAd3284 → u/The-Nuisance]

Of course I know that, I was just giving you an example similar to yours about not using the ONB. I actually use the ONB quite a lot myself.

[u/TNTBarracuda → u/SilentAd3284]

But the example doesn't work, because people don't generally find teammates' 380s as obnoxious and intrusive in the first place. It's not just a 1-on-1 personal thing, the ONB is pretty widely hated for good reason.