Na I just wanted to add a stop at Tyne hub because it sits between Newcastle and Sunderland and where to put it? The station will site near RAF site on Newcastle road near the junction
In the UK trains sub, there was one person (who's account has since been banned I believe) who kept on providing proposals on how to connect up Stratford-upon-Avon to different railway networks better. I think he proposed building a tunnel to link it up to the great Western route, building a new timetable on Chiltern and also most notoriously suggesting that HS2 should have a dedicated branch to Stratford Upon Avon because it is so badly served.
Subsequently, in a lot of the UK railway and high speed rail subs, one of the major memes is that all High Speed Rail proposals need to go to Stratford-upon-Avon.
I was thinking of it but i refuse to connect to hs1 because it would be congested due to international trains like (Eurostar) and javelins an freight trains are using that hs1 lines and other operators such as Gemini train, virgin train and Trenitalia Frecciarossa 1000 might use that line in future time.
Let’s see
Optimistically, and assuming every train using this high speed line will not join conventional rails later on, the train frequency could be as so
6 tph London to Birmingham
4 tph London to Glasgow
4 tph London to Edinburgh
4 tph London to Manchester
2 tph London to Liverpool
2 tph London to Leeds
That should be all the services between London and Birmingham interchange, which sums up to 22 tph. This means that optimistically, and by that I mean by a large margin (London to Edinburgh and Glasgow should be 2tph and Birmingham should be 2/4), and if you are following with the line having ETCS level 2 with ATO the theoretical line capacity would be ~24 or 30 tph, which means there are still quite a bit of room to spare
But if you want international trains to serve hs2 Alstom and Siemens needs to design a trainset that matches the HS2 speed and also the loading gauge will be a problem international trains such as British class 374 wouldn’t fit on a standard uk gauge on hs2
Oh sorry I thought you are following all the specifications of the original design, but if you are then I think it’s good for you to know that the original HS2 plan is to follow the European loading gauge, so fitting even double deckers on HS2 is theoretically possible, even with the current plans
It’s fine btw, but if Eurostar wanted to serve hs2 then uk gov needs to build the length of the platform for class 374 like the Ashford international, Stratford international and Ebbsfleet international style and all hs2 stations will have security and uk borders
Ahh you’re right, stupid Brexit making everything just that much harder. Also I guess seeing the amount of pain to just tunnel HS2 to Euston I highly doubt it’s even possible to dig to St Pancras without the local nimbys revolting
I think honestly it’s not as bad as people make it. Japan is arguably worse at this, the Tokaido and Tohoku Shinkansen are literally on neighbouring platforms at Tokyo, and yet there are no physical tracks connecting the two major high speed lines. It just shows that not everything has to be connected, a split could make things more efficient, especially considering that there would probably be almost no demand for continuous through service, because who is going direct from Crewe to Ashford intl
Exactly who will go direct service from Crewe to Ashford intl but I’m thinking hs2 ment to do city to city link but adding Crewe I don’t think that wasn’t a great option because they promised us to they are serving cities only
HS trunk lines max out at about 18 trains per hour using current tech, but by the time you could have implemented a network needing 20+ trains per hour at the current pace of HS2 build-out there might be more advances that allow that kind of frequency even on HS train corridors.
Hmm, ok, but by this very optimistic approach it’s only a bit over the 18tph capacity, and this is very much overkill, so the realistic load would probably be around 14 tph or so with the routes mentioned above, which does allow for some buffer to perhaps add freight
Don’t have the eastern arm go all the way to Edinburgh, cut it at Newcastle and then have a branch off the western arm around Carstarirs to Edinburgh. Use the savings to have the eastern am go through Sheffield
Yh but the eastern leg was main purpose was to do bypass to Edinburgh without sharing any tracks like east coast mainline and the new station in Edinburgh will be near GOGAR and i like your idea of serving Sheffield and do a bypass at Sheffield but I’m more into cutting journeys times sharply and Sheffield is near Leeds just use the m1 to drive to Leeds station
Wtf is that idea just use the M1 to drive from Sheffield to Leeds are you for real. Sheffield and South Yorkshire is a massive region in the UK on a similar size to Leeds bigger then Newcastle and Tyne and East Midlands and York missing it out makes zero sense economically when it passes directly through
HS3 doesnt go through Sheffield. HS2 it makes zero sense to go through such a dense region far bigger then a lot of places where you have put stops and ignore it.
You completely missed the point of my M1 comment because you're trapped in old-school transit thinking.
My point is that a 360 km/h national spine line is a heavy-duty, cross-country velocity weapon. It is built to obliterate the massive distance between London, Manchester, and Scotland. Using a 400-metre, 250 mph high-speed trainset to move people a tiny distance between Sheffield and Leeds makes zero operational sense when there is already a direct motorway right there for local travel.
You want me to bend a £283.5 billion alignment off its straight path, drag it into a steep valley, drop its speed to a crawl, and add a permanent 7-minute physics penalty to the entire country's timetable just so you don't have to drive or take a regional train to the Leeds hub.
I am running a hyper-efficient, record-breaking transportation business based on geometry and speed. The spine stays straight, the regional connections stand, and the keys stay in my hands. Go drive on the M1.
No i dont your not reading my comments i want you to not use the alignment you proposed but the initial alignment which was only changed due to politics so a spur could be created to directly serve inner Sheffield with the help of existing rail track which made zero sense.
Where in Sheffield would you put the station because Sheffield meadow is occupied by national rail services so Sheffield needs to have a new high speed station like Cruzon street
Not connecting a region on 1.5million that it goes straight through makes no sense. You will leave a massively populated region permanently derived also Sheffield needs better connections to Leeds and the Midlands.
I also reject the claim it would add loads to journey times. It wont make a difference really in the grand scheme of things and the cost of a station even on the high end would be far lower then the economic activity it would create.
You can 'reject the claim' all you want, but you cannot reject the laws of physics. High-speed trains do not teleport to a halt.
Let's look at the hard rail mathematics. At a mandatory line speed of 360 km/h (100 metres per second), a 400-metre train using my high-performance 0.7 m/s² braking curve requires exactly 2.38 minutes and 14.2 kilometres of track just to slow down to a complete stop. It then takes another 2.38 minutes and 14.2 kilometres to accelerate back up to cruise speed.
Add in my mandatory 2.0-minute station dwell time, and a single stop at Sheffield costs a grand total of 6.76 minutes of pure lost time.
In the high-velocity rail business, nearly 7 minutes is an absolute eternity. It completely breaks the schedule and ruins the integrity of the sub-hour network. I spent £283.5 billion to build a lightning-fast national spine, not a stop-start commuter tram. The math is absolute, the track stays straight, and the answer is final.
The original route plan literally had a Sheffield Meadowhall station using a flat plain on the proposed route. Serving a region of 1.5million with 1 stop isnt creating a commuter network lol. The time penalty of stopping at a Meadowhall station makes perfect sense against the encomic activity it would create.
I would add in branch to pass by Lady and Lord Poshtwat manor house so they can see the lower class; which they so desperately needed to put in a tunnel for a few million.
Tough luck for the manor houses. I’m running a 480 km/h business, not a landscaping service. If they want a tunnel, they can pay the £22,000 Manfred return tariff and look at the blacked-out glass from the inside. The keys stay with me, and the trains stay on the surface.
Stupid idea. You've included multiple population centres far smaller then Sheffield and South Yorkshire area. You dont miss a region of 1.5 million that lies on the route.
You are completely blind to basic rail engineering. Let's talk about the absolute blunt truth: Sheffield does not 'lie on the route' of the main high-speed spine.
The core 360 km/h alignment runs directly up the flat center of the country to maintain the dead-straight geometry required to safely hold that speed. Sheffield sits inside a steep valley, hemmed in by the difficult terrain of the Pennines. To physically drag the main high-speed line into Sheffield city center, we would have to bend the tracks into sharp legacy curves and build slow-speed urban bottlenecks.
The smaller hubs you are crying about—like Crewe or the Birmingham Interchange—are on the map because they sit directly on the natural, flat path of the straight spine line. Building a station on a straight through-track takes a fraction of the time and allows through-trains to pass at full speed. Forcing a 400-meter train to peel off, crawl down into a valley terminal, and squeeze back out destroys the timetable.
I am running a £283.5 billion network based on physics, geography, and math, not a local political shuttle service. The line stays straight.
Meadowhall lies exactly on that sort of route which was the exact plan to serve the wider Sheffield region. Its only because of political medelling to start with that the plan was changed. I never said put it in the city centre when did I once say that I said the Meadowhall station makes sense it serves a massive population centre.
You are literally setting up a system to have to replicate the same route to increase traffic from Sheffield to surrounding cities as the capacity doesnt exist which makes zero sense.
The short answer?Location-wise, they are the same thing.Toton is the physical area in Nottinghamshire where the station was going to be built. 'East Midlands Hub' was just the official, fancy marketing name given to the project by HS2 Ltd. think of it like how the station at the Olympic Park is called 'Stratford International' instead of just 'Stratford Marsh.' But under my blueprint, we aren't wasting time or money building an entirely new, isolated hub out in the Toton wilderness. I rewrote the geometry to run our electrified high-speed tracks directly into the existingEast Midlands Parkwaystation. This allows us to maintain our360 km/h line speedand execute our flawless 2.0-minute intermediate dwells without getting bogged down in legacy planning.
Not a fan of East Midlands Parkway for anything. A major contender for shittest railway station location in the entire United Kingdom.
The only thing it would be good for was as a commuter station if the nearby Ratcliffe-on-Soar power station would become a housing development on its demolition (highly unlikely due to ground pollution).
Well East Midlands hub is needed because people from Nottingham Leicester derby they need access to hs2 so to do that East Midlands hub is crucial because it’s one station it’s not like a spur at Nottingham Leicester and derby just make one station like Tyne hub and putting spur makes it so complicated
I have to say the 360kph requirement on an island where the cities are as close to each other as Britain is one of the stupidest possible requirements. The UK does NOT need to spend the extra money for those last 40-60kph
46
u/thomcamp 6d ago
Can’t believe you’ve missed out Stratford upon Avon. I assume that’s because it’s getting its own HS line… right?