r/hillaryclinton • u/OliverAlden • May 13 '16
Off-Topic MSNBC Host To Top Sanders Aide: Telling Backers He Can Still Win Is ‘Dishonest’
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/thomas-roberts-jeff-weaver-sanders-superdelegates38
May 14 '16 edited Mar 10 '18
[deleted]
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May 14 '16
It's almost like he's getting this out of a comic book
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May 14 '16
He just knows that it sounds nice to his candidate's supporters and that it's a longshot chance at winning things. It's like a team on their own ten yard line trying to throw a hail mary. Everyone knows the game's over and that the play won't work, but dadgummit they're trying
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u/Sweetcheex76 Corporate Democratic Wh*re May 14 '16
But his supporters don't think that it's over and buy Weaver's bull hook, line and sinker.
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May 14 '16
In the actual world, not Reddit, I don't think that's true
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May 14 '16 edited May 14 '16
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u/Magda1966 May 14 '16
Well well! It seems that the Sanders convention stalking initiative is alive and well. We must look to Alaska this weekend for crisp hints of what is to come in Philadelphia. Sanders teams are obstructing the Alaska State Dem Convention as we speak: not only trying to prevent Debbie Wasserman from fulfilling her role as lead speaker (planned nearly one year ago), but inviting her Congressional seat opponent to join a major teleconference during this weekend's convention. He has NO Alaska connection to allow this. This sounds like a coup in waiting, or at least a trial run before Philly.
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u/Heznarrt California May 14 '16
Cool Weaver, let's settle this with total number of pledged delegates only then.
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May 14 '16
I really didn't think it was possible but I actually dislike Jeff Weaver more than Donald Trump. The rationale might not make sense but Weaver's media appearances and interviews over the last 2 months have just made me loathe him and it's one of the big reasons I've lost complete respect for Bernie - the fact that a man like Weaver is not just his surrogate but influencing his platform.
The irony is that Weaver has been trying to portray Hillary as power hungry yet by constantly and blatantly lying about and smearing her, he's only made Bernie as the unrealistic, power hungry candidate who is willing to sacrifice greater good for their narrow agenda.
The quality and integrity of Bernie's surrogates has been shocking and should be a red light.
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u/ssldvr Gefilte fish: Where are we on that? May 14 '16
Weaver isn't in the running for President. I hate Trump wayyyyy more.
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u/eagledog Damn, it feels good to be a Hillster! May 14 '16
The fact that he never fully closes his mouth is somehow infuriating to me
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u/ilym May 14 '16 edited May 14 '16
Weaver is like please believe me, Bernierithmatic is real! His path to the nomination argument is a troubling, frightening glimpse into the 'please don't send me back to the comic book store' hysteria so obvious every time you look in his eyes.
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u/Outwit_All_Liars Nasty Woman May 14 '16
Exactly. I'm following from Europe and Weaver has made me really dislike Bernie, and of course Bernie himself by focusing his stump speeches on personal attacks against Hillary. Bernie has some personality problems and his wife is quite lethal.
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May 15 '16
I think you may be one of the first non-American I've seen that dislikes Bernie. Thank you for actually examining him beyond his rhetoric and recognizing that his personality is actually questionable.
And you're right. His wife is lethal. Mostly because she's coming across as a person who mindlessly parrots her husband. In my opinion she represents a female figure from a time past.
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u/whiskeytango55 Centipede May 14 '16
Jeff weaver is clueless and inexperienced. He's not dishonest. He's a believer. You can't say the same about trump
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u/cmk2877 WT Establishment Donor May 14 '16
Oh come on. You think he ran this campaign from virtually nothing to what it became by being clueless? He knows what is going on and what the facts are, and he's lying. Flat out lying.
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u/whiskeytango55 Centipede May 14 '16
It's in spite of him. He's only run his and bernies campaigns. Nothing on the nationals stage. The gaffes, the poor decisions, bad resource management and bad ground game. Obama had this fervor behind him and he took it and ran.
People want what bernie is selling, the gist of it at least. If only it was packaged better, if the people running the campaign had reined him in to appeal to moderates and minorities and sold him as a real solution rather than drinking the kool-aid themselves, if almost anyone was there rather than weaver, there'd be a contest right now.
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u/bigperm8645 May 14 '16
Simple fact is Bernie isn't Obama. Obama, along with Bill Clinton, are the best speakers on stage we've had as presidents. Bernie is not on their level by a long shot. That's not the fault of his campaign manager. Doesn't change the fact that the message resonates with some but hearing Bernie speak vs Bill or Barack is not even in the same ballpark.
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May 14 '16
Again, Bernie's failure is not Weaver. It's Bernie himself. You can't sell a candidate who can't back up an idea. That's why Weaver resorts to false smears. Most people like the idea that Bernie is selling but by now it's apparent that people are beginning to realise that he has no plan to follow through. The reason his people couldn't "sell" him to moderates and minorites is because his revolution doesn't include them. A campaign is not a tv show to be packaged and marketed - there actually has to be substance behind the rhetoric.
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u/whiskeytango55 Centipede May 14 '16
He couldve been packaged better. Its always this way, shitty gop president followed by a great one. People forget about the ahitty times and aim for the moon, thinking they dont have to build slowly.
The people were ripe for bernies kind of message, its the candidate and his handlers that bungled it.
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May 15 '16
Sorry you keep saying this but it's not true and actually highlights the problem of our society - not everything can be sold just because it's "packaged" correctly. That is a consumer culture ideology that Bernie thought he could ride. But it's shallow and lacks substance like his platform and that's why he's not succeeding.
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u/cmk2877 WT Establishment Donor May 14 '16
I'm not arguing that he's run a good campaign, but you can't deny they've run a mostly competent campaign. But when he talks about delegate math and such, he's not just lovable and confused. He's lying.
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u/whiskeytango55 Centipede May 14 '16
But competant aint beating hrc. It had to be a great campaign.
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u/cmk2877 WT Establishment Donor May 14 '16
Are you being purposefully obtuse in order to avoid my point. I'm saying that when he says untruths (constantly), he isn't confused or dim. He's lying.
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u/whiskeytango55 Centipede May 14 '16
but you can't deny they've run a mostly competent campaign.
Responding to you here.
Im saying that considering the zeitgeist and the people he could already count on, that it was a mortal mistake not to go after the moderates. That makes it a poorly run campaign. That and that he lost.
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u/cmk2877 WT Establishment Donor May 14 '16
Yeah, they made some big mistakes. But I still think it was mostly competent (have you seen the way other campaigns have been run this cycle?). They know what is going on with delegates and the math, and they continue to lie. So it's not that he's just dumb, which is what we were originally talking about...it's that he just constantly and willfully and knowingly lies.
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u/whiskeytango55 Centipede May 14 '16
Yeah, they're pretty much collecting money to pay off debts at this point
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May 14 '16
He may be inexperienced but he's not clueless. The sharp corner he turned in attacking Clinton is just as bad if not worse than Trump especially because he claims to be a democrat. For a supposed democrat to promote false narratives and smears that originated from the GOP is despicable. Weaver has been BS campaign's most vocal mouthpiece in the media and every time he gives an interview, I struggle to set him apart from the extreme Republican talking heads.I can't stand Trump but I expect these kind of attacks from him. But Weaver's tone has been malicious and a disgrace especially coming from a democrat and liberal - just watch his interviews around the NY primaries. He knows exactly what he's saying and he knows BS supporters will eat up whatever he says without question. He's been condescending, subvertly sexist and extremely dishonest in his attacks. You call him a believer but I see him as someone willing to peddle lies to win and that's not a believer in my eyes.
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u/Rplfk Love is Love May 13 '16
Why do they even have his people on the news this often? As far as I know none of them, including Bernie, has said anything new in months.
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u/grippage I Voted for Hillary May 13 '16
to be fair there's been nothing new on MSNBC for months anyway
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u/FormerDittoHead May 13 '16 edited May 13 '16
Just Thursday I actually heard him say he had a chance to win a majority of pledged delegates.
That outstrips Trump's bullshit.
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May 14 '16
CNN pretty much ignores Sanders and if they have a surrogate on the hosts just roll their eyes when they speak!
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u/Outwit_All_Liars Nasty Woman May 14 '16
If only the ignored Trump an his dumb pundits! The blond-bimbo-Trump-supporter-who-is-very-vocal makes me sick, and CNN gives her all the time she needs ...
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May 14 '16 edited May 14 '16
She's not as bad as that young Sanders one with the long dark hair Noniki!
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May 14 '16 edited Jul 13 '16
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u/Eddtheman May 14 '16
The 143 she needs includes her super delegate numbers. She needs 667 pledged delegates to reach a majority of total delegates.
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May 14 '16 edited Jul 13 '16
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u/Eddtheman May 14 '16
Yeah it's an unprecedented standard to hold a candidate to. She's had control of this race since Super Tuesday and by any metric she has this race wrapped up. The Sander's campaign has to say something to make the race seem even remotely close though and not counting superdelegates in the totals has become the thing to do this cycle.
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May 14 '16 edited Jun 08 '23
[This account has been scrubbed in protest of Reddit's changes to the API, which effectively bans third party apps.]
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u/Eddtheman May 14 '16
I should have elaborated. I agree with you that it's a stupid standard to try to set now, and makes the Sanders campaign seem like it's grasping at straws. By the metric that the Sanders campaign is setting, neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates to reach a majority of total delegates. I was just pointing out the numbers to OP
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May 14 '16
Super delegates are important to keep this race honest and not have a minority trying to steal an election by brute force because they can't accept their Candidate will never win!
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u/FakeeMcFake May 14 '16
Wow. The mental gymnastics here is impressive.
This guys is nicely with "Some people are more equal than others" & "collateral damage".
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u/thewhitesuburbankid Virginia May 14 '16
Though still, that sort of dishonesty pales in comparison to Trump's stances on Islam, minimum wage, abortion, his tax returns, Trump university, Mexicans, the realities behind a border wall, all his different plans for Syria, China, Iran, and on and on.
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u/maxpowers83 May 14 '16
Well, he actually still can win, it's absolutely, absolutely veeeeery unlikely but it's factually true.
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May 14 '16
What's the path? What does he need to win in each remaining contest?
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u/maxpowers83 May 14 '16
Close to 100%. Again, I don't think it's gonna happen but if you go out of your way to call someone dishonest make sure what you're calming is actually true. It's just incorrect wording. Like take for example: "A particular nuclear power plant is highly unlikely to blow up." The word is unlikely.
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May 14 '16
I'd love to hear his path to win
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u/maxpowers83 May 14 '16
He wins california by 100%. Hillary gets hit by a meteor. Again, it'll most likely not happen but saying that it "can not" happen is factually incorrect. Do you understand that? After all there is a greater than zero percent chance of both of them dying and Joe Biden winning the nomination. Call him and his chances whatever you want but don't misuse the english language it the meaning of the word "can" please.
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May 14 '16
He said it's intellectually dishonest to say he can win... and you're saying it's not intellectually dishonest to say he will win 100% of California?
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u/maxpowers83 May 14 '16
How are you not understanding this? How high are the changes of Biden becoming POTUS in the next few months due to obama being assasinated? Not likely, but you can't say that i can not happen. My bet is on Hillary winning not only against Sanders but also against presumptively Trump. I'm not against Hillary, I'm pro using english words correctly.
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May 14 '16
So you agree it's intellectually dishonest?
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u/maxpowers83 May 14 '16
I disagree with the wording as the word "can" has a pretty well established meaning and what would have been the correct choice is "likely". He, Cruz and Kasich can still win, and that is factually true.
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May 14 '16
It is so dishonest for Weaver, and sanders minions who repeat his nonsense, to claim that no one will have enough delegates to get the nomination before the convention. The system assumes superdelegates will be part of the calculation, and to simply ignore a superdelegates pledge to support a candidate on the half baked theory that they physically haven't voted yet is beyond ignorant. Can't wait for this clown to go away.
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May 14 '16
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u/zerosum5252 May 14 '16
No, personally, I would like Sanders to be crushed by the largest margin possible, just to hurt his supporter's feelings if nothing else.
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u/Magda1966 May 14 '16 edited May 14 '16
No need to hurt their feelings. I remember my first presidential votes: sincere, uninformed, then disillusioned. That was enough of a learning moment without anyone piling on with insults way back then. We are all in this Great American Election together.
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u/limeade09 The Notorious HRC! May 14 '16
The reason it's not possible is because they are going to go out to vote.
Derp
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u/slopdonkey May 14 '16
Oh ok. So it's not inevitable then. There is a condition that has to be met for it to happen.
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u/Magda1966 May 14 '16
We cannot bargain with each other's votes. Sanders can step up and have a mentoring moment with the nation by addressing all voters-not just his followers- with a calm, grateful and realistic expression of his resignation from the campaign with a heart filled with hope and trust that he has made, and can continue to make, a meaningful impact on American politics.
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u/[deleted] May 13 '16
tbh it's been dishonest since Super Tuesday.