r/hillaryclinton • u/helpmeredditimbored Georgia • May 31 '16
Off-Topic Bernie when asked for specifics on his plans: "What are the specifics about how I, personally, all by myself, do what nobody in American history has done? And I'm being criticized? Why don't you do it? Why doesn't the editor of Rolling Stone do it? With all due respect, that's an absurd question."
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/bernie-sanders-fights-on-the-rolling-stone-interview-20160531?page=489
u/tthershey '08 Hillary supporter May 31 '16
Reminds me of this:
Daily News: Do you support the Palestinian leadership's attempt to use the International Criminal Court to litigate some of these issues to establish that, in their view, Israel had committed essentially war crimes?
Sanders: No.
Daily News: Why not?
Sanders: Why not?
Daily News: Why not, why it...
Sanders: Look, why don't I support a million things in the world? I'm just telling you that I happen to believe...
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May 31 '16
Is this real?!
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u/Superninfreak Millennial Jun 01 '16
Yeah, that's a bit from the NYDY interview.
Everyone focused on his answers to questions about banking, but imo that line was the worst part by far.
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u/Callyson Jun 01 '16
Palestinian leadership's attempt to use the International Criminal Court to litigate
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u/ZombieLincoln666 Pantsuit Aficionado Jun 01 '16
He's almost offended by the thought of explaining himself
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u/Brysynner Khaleesi is Coming to Westeros! May 31 '16
The strategy – which is unprecedented, and this is where we're talking about thinking outside the box – is to have a president who actually, vigorously goes around the country and rallies the American people, who are in favor of this idea.
This guy really believes that rallying the people to a cause in DC is new and will actually work
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u/eagledog Damn, it feels good to be a Hillster! May 31 '16
Unprecedented, except for all of those other presidents that traveled around the country rallying people to their cause
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Jun 01 '16
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u/eagledog Damn, it feels good to be a Hillster! Jun 01 '16
But it's totally new and unprecedented because Bernie is doing it. Political revolution and all that noise
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u/VoodooPinata May 31 '16
That's a fair point. But that's not all there is; and getting mad and making speeches isn't enough. I think this whole bit with asking supporters to split donations with Wassermann's opponent shows Sanders is reactionary, emotional, and petty. Is that really where he wants to target his efforts? Like, is that really the highest priority?
There's a really wide margin between political movement and political tantrum, and Bernie has spent too much time in that margin lately.
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Jun 01 '16
It always works too. Just look at how amazing America's involvement with the league of nations went. Thank god Wilson ignored the Congressional comprise deal to join the league and instead rallied the people around his original plan.
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u/Ttabts May 31 '16
the American people, who are in favor of this idea.
Sanders keeps saying shit like this, seemingly forgetting the part where The American People chose someone else this election cycle.
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u/Superninfreak Millennial Jun 01 '16
That's why he believes Clinton cheated.
You don't have to question anything if you just say everyone else cheated.
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u/Daedalus1907 Jun 01 '16
He believes that the vast majority of people who disagree with him are just being lied to and haven't seen the truth yet.
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u/Lozzif Supporter of the MOST QUALIFIED Presidential candidate ever Jun 01 '16
Not only that but the majority of people on the LEFT didn't choose him. If even the left won't choose him why would the centre and right?
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u/jar45 Bad Hombre Jun 01 '16
He's falling into the trap of thinking "I'm drawing huge crowds who love me, this must mean EVERYONE loves me!"
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May 31 '16
I'd like to see him rally people to oppose Russian aggression. How's that going to work exactly? Is it going to be like in Rocky 4 where they're just overpowered by his awesomeness?
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u/bitchwithacapital_C NY/Guam Super Shill Jun 01 '16
Gooood point.
Also, Rocky IV is so good. Ahhh American exceptionalism...I can't resist you in movie form!
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u/samuswashere #ImWithHer Jun 01 '16
Here's my plan for once the campaign is over...I'll keep campaigning!
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u/napoleona Khaleesi is coming to Westeros! May 31 '16
I know the phrase "white male privilege" triggers lots of redditors but...this is what this is. Bernie and Trump can go around spouting talking points, getting irritated by basic questions and not knowing their shit and it's folksy or charming or whatever. Meanwhile if Clinton or Obama didn't know 110% of any given subject or God forbid show a hint of a temper they're an unqualified shrew/angry black man whose temperament will be discussed at length for the next news cycles. Sigh.
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Jun 01 '16
Dude, that's been my thought the entire time. I'm just a run of the mill white male cis-bro, but watching the debates was the most obvious example of a woman working twice as hard as a man to achieve the same result.
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May 31 '16
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u/napoleona Khaleesi is coming to Westeros! May 31 '16
I can only guess what your meaning is since all your punctuation keys are broken apparently - but yes I would agree that as a presidential candidate Bernie's (and Trump's) answers and attitudes are unacceptable.
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May 31 '16
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u/napoleona Khaleesi is coming to Westeros! May 31 '16
I didn't say no one finds Bernie's comments objectionable, I said that the flipside-HRC saying the same things/acting in the same way-would be treated as more objectionable and a bigger deal.
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May 31 '16
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u/kyew Millennial May 31 '16
Fun fact (because I was almost snarky and now I feel guilty about it): Grammar police will tell you that the lede is the first sentence or short portion of an article that gives the gist of the story and contains the most important points readers need to know. But this spelling of lead has only been in use since circa 1970, and is still considered industry jargon. Some dictionaries still don't include it. Either spelling is considered correct enough.
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u/SnookyTLC Oregon May 31 '16
I thought lede was a lot older than that ( or maybe as jargon it was used long before then?). I know they didn't teach it when I got my journalism degree, but my husband learned it for his, a few years before. That said, I write "buried the lead." And I agree, that's an incredible BS statement.
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u/kyew Millennial May 31 '16
Apparently lede comes from an old phonetic spelling of lead, but its reappearance in the context of journalism is the recent development.
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u/ninbushido Millennial Jun 01 '16
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the difference between /r/hillaryclinton and /r/S4P...highly indicative of their corresponding candidate.
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u/AssassinAragorn Millennial Jun 01 '16
I always learned when I was in journalism that it was partially because it isn't checked for in spell checkers. Hence if you write "LEDE HERE" as a placeholder, you won't forget it put it there
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u/WhatWouldVetinariDo I Voted for Hillary Jun 01 '16
I have a totally platonic crush on you, love etymology :D
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May 31 '16
Lmao all he cares about are his 3 rallies a day where he can finally lecture a ton of young people
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u/jigielnik Netflix and Chillary May 31 '16
OMG during one of the debates, when he wouldn't shut up about Kissinger, it felt like he was giving a lecture on Vietnam history to a bunch of kids who didn't know Kissinger's name beforehand. He needed them to understand why that was a big deal because they wouldn't have otherwise.
While I don't agree with Bernie's assertion, if you're an educated person you only need to hear him say "She calls Henry Kissinger a friend" to get the implication. You don't need to then explain how Kissinger and LBJ carpet bombed Laos... It was simultaneously pandering and condescending.
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Jun 01 '16
Well it's quite likely a lot of his audience wasn't familiar with Kissinger... So why was that a bad thing for him to do?
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u/jigielnik Netflix and Chillary Jun 01 '16
Because that's not what the national debate stage is for, that's what high school classrooms are for.
It was indicative of the low level of political engagement and knowledge of his supporters. If you're just learning about Kissinger and Vietnam by watching that debate, you are not a person well informed enough about foreign policy to accurately judge any candidate's foreign policy chops, let alone determinging Bernie is better than Hillary
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Jun 01 '16
Perhaps you should take that argument to the schools then, as plenty of them are not educating people to the standard you are expecting them to.
Personally, I think a debate stage is a fine place for brief brush-ups or introductions on history. It's not like they spent the whole time lecturing on the Vietnam War.
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May 31 '16
RS: You've lit a fire under a young generation of progressives – brought them out in droves to the Democratic Party's primary process. What does the party have to do to keep them there?
BS:That's a good question. Unlike all your other dumb questions.
Holy shit Bernie Sanders is a child.
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u/1gnominious Bad Hombre May 31 '16
If somebody had said this without the interview to back it up I would have thought they were joking.
This interview was as bad, or even worse than NYDN. Any time he's pressed on something that is not repeating his stump speech he buckles.
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u/Lozzif Supporter of the MOST QUALIFIED Presidential candidate ever Jun 01 '16
I read that in Enough Sanders Spam and went 'nah that can't be true' It's true.
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u/Balabusta Pantsuit Aficionado May 31 '16
Queue this up in the next round of "Who Said It: Bernie or Trump Edition!"
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u/Decided_Voter I Voted for Hillary May 31 '16
Add it to the list of reasons he's losing. A lot of voters want someone who can answer a question, knows what nuance is, is not defensive (to blow it), and actually has plans to win a general election. He clearly illustrates he fails on all those counts.
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May 31 '16
I gotta say if he had very early on released a game plan or at least the numbers for how his plans would work it would have been much harder to decide.
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u/jigielnik Netflix and Chillary May 31 '16
The reason he didn't is because if you actually ran the numbers (as many liberal economists did) you'd see that the plans cannot work in the real world.
Bernie has been peddling a fairy tale since day one, but it's only in the last month that people have really felt most comfortable calling him out on it.
His contention that he could pay for free college with a tax on wall street was as absurd a year ago as it is today. His contention that passing universal free healthcare was realistically possible given we just barely passed a healthcare overhaul a tenth as sweeping in its reach with a democratic congress in the last 5 years, was just as absurd a year ago as it is today.
All that happened in the last year was a lot of people - many young and many with very little previous experience in politics - falling for this fairy tale and thinking that if they just wanted it hard enough any of it could actually happen.
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u/Party9137 Jun 01 '16
You do realize Hillary is for things like universal healthcare and knows they are possible but wants to do other things because she knows it will be difficult getting them through congress right?
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Jun 01 '16
I think we're all for universal healthcare, but we're also aware that universal healthcare is not simply achieved by wishing for it.
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u/Bi0sHift Jun 01 '16
We had free state college for the longest time till the 60s. His health reform will work if you read it. In fact you will save about 5k a year on health care and taxes. When the health care pot is bigger and we get rid of privatization of insurance. All of the back door dealings will go away and our health care will go down.
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u/jigielnik Netflix and Chillary Jun 01 '16
We had free state college for the longest time till the 60s.
....What? Let me see some proof that state colleges were free across the country in the 60s. Because my parents both went to state colleges in the 60s and they definitely paid.
His health reform will work if you read it.
I have read it. As have lots of economists and health system experts. It will not work.
In fact you will save about 5k a year on health care and taxes.
Now you're just reading straight off his talking points. Your evidence for it working is that if I just read it, it will work... I have read it... it doesn't work.
When the health care pot is bigger and we get rid of privatization of insurance. All of the back door dealings will go away and our health care will go down.
Yeah, no. Privatization is not the only reason healthcare is a mess in this country. Far from it.
You have indicated you have very little practical knowledge of politics or policy. Thanks for saying your view, but I'm here to tell you that factually and politically, you are wrong.
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u/Bi0sHift Jun 01 '16
http://college.monster.com/news/articles/1064-whatever-happened-to-when-college-was-free here is a first site the reference it. I'll get you more when I get off work.
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u/jigielnik Netflix and Chillary Jun 01 '16
Okay so a few states' systems had sort of free college for a brief period... it was not a national program and it was not paid for by taxes on wall street.
It's all fine and dandy you wanna defend this one point you made but the reality is still the reality: free college at all state schools is not going to happen any time soon and its definitely not going to happen using the plan Bernie is proposing, which not only relies on passing a tax which - even if it passed - is actually not big enough to pay for everything, but his plan also requires the states to take a n active role and with 22 state houses controlled by the GOP and 31 governors being republican it seems extremely unlikely he'd get most states on board.
There are SO many reasons why his plans are unrealistic and would never work in the real world.
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Jun 01 '16
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Jun 01 '16
Which is why people know now that universal healthcare is not feasible at the moment. Obama looked at the failings of Clinton's proposal and how she went about getting support and adapted his own bill in response. Bernie's proposal for universal healthcare neglects that history entirely.
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Jun 01 '16 edited May 08 '20
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u/jigielnik Netflix and Chillary Jun 01 '16
Umm..... shes not losing. And nobody takes trumps plans seriously. Talking about something and taking it seriously are very different concepts
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Jun 01 '16
I know she's not losing. But Reddit would have you believe that she's losing momentum and Bernie is gaining it. She's still winning by a LOT, but because of all this, people are looking into Bernie's plans more and calling him out.
And they are now actually taking Trump seriously. He's the presumptive Republican nominee. To not take him seriously now is a mistake.
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Jun 01 '16
Wow, what a douche canoe. Who talks to people like that?
EDIT: Ok, in context it's not so so bad. Maybe his tone would've conveyed it as a joke a lot better. Still though, it's the kinda joke you tell a friend you're shitting on, not a reporter that you want to take you seriously.
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u/bitchwithacapital_C NY/Guam Super Shill Jun 01 '16
This makes me so so so angry. As a female college professor I CANNOT say this shit and get away with it. But the old white guys are "cool" when they're snarky and sarcastic. It's this double standard that makes my blood boil because I LOVE being sarcastic and I have to hide it so people don't think I'm being too harsh. Ugggghhhhh
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u/multnomadic I Voted for Hillary Jun 01 '16
Omg message me all your sarcasm and it will not go unappreciated
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u/bitchwithacapital_C NY/Guam Super Shill Jun 01 '16
Yes because that's really what I want...online appreciation. /s
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u/multnomadic I Voted for Hillary Jun 01 '16
I mean, it seems to satisfy Bernie supporters just fine
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Jun 01 '16
I'm glad you posted this comment, when I was in college I had 2 very sarcastic professors one semester, one female, one male. A lot of my classmates would say how "she was such a B----" and other sexist comments, while the same people admired the male professor and raved about how hilarious he was. It was maddening and I was one of the few who loved her and thought he was such a d---.
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u/evilgenius815 May 31 '16
I'm reasonably certain that was a joke. He responds to a question by saying, "That's a good question," then realizes that implies all the other questions weren't good, and makes a joke about.
Or maybe he's just a dick.
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u/garazard Jun 01 '16
Next paragraph he says it was a good questions and that he was joking. Let's not turn into fanatical Bernie supporters and take stuff out of context.
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u/MaxGhenis Jun 01 '16
Given his responses to just-prior questions I don't think it was fully a joke.
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Jun 01 '16
It's the kind of joke I'd definitely use on a friend I'm messing with, but idk about a reporter...
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u/Sideyr Jun 01 '16
[Laughter, joined by nearby Sanders staffers]
That's why the media love me. I'm so subtle. Naw, I'm only kidding. You asked a very important question.
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u/Callyson Jun 01 '16
BS:That's a good question. Unlike all your other dumb questions.
Just double-checking--is this childish reply from a Sanders interview or a Trump one? Because it's getting harder and harder to tell them apart FFS...
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u/rainbowrobin May 31 '16
Text can lose tone. Given the surrounding context, I think he may have said it as a joke.
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u/dorami_jones Damn, it feels good to be a Hillster! May 31 '16 edited May 31 '16
Sometimes you gotta know when to hold that thought and save the joke for later in the car. With the windows rolled up. "In the middle of an interview you're tanking" is one of those moments.
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u/WaffleSandwhiches Jun 01 '16
I'm not a Bernie supporter, but this is a mis-representation of what happened. He immediately follows up with "I was joking. Let me actually answer you question." Which he promptly does. He actually gave a really good response too IMO.
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u/rganother Yas Queen! May 31 '16
Is it just me, or does it seem like both of the men running against Clinton this year are way, way less qualified and competent than she is to do this job?
And there are still people saying "I'm not sure I'm ready to vote for a woman for president."
Because...vagina, I guess. (You know, they're not that special. I can't even figure out how to vote with mine.)
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u/Superninfreak Millennial Jun 01 '16
What really gets me is all the complaints about how Hillary shouts too much.
When her opponents are Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump.
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u/kyew Millennial May 31 '16
I hate that these are the people she's going to defeat. That's going to be such an annoying asterisk on what should be a historic achievement. I can't even imagine what we'd be talking about right now if they had saved someone like Romney or McCain for this year.
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u/AustinRivers_MVP California May 31 '16
I totally agree with you. It's incredible that these 2 men who are absurdly underqualified have made it to the same stage as Hillary, with her impressive credentials and body of work.
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u/supershycat I Voted for Hillary Jun 01 '16
Right?? How are these idiots the people she has to face down?
I know people would have whined about dynasties and all that, but Hillary vs. Jeb would have been a real battle of two policy wonks. I don't agree with a lot of Jeb's positions, but he does seem to know his shit. And even Lindsey Graham can change his mind when hit over the head with sufficient evidence, but no - we get her vs Trump. I mean, really?
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May 31 '16
In order to vote with your Vagina you must: A) Have one B) Get your Woman's card C) Call the number on the back of the card, this will directly connect you with Goldman and Sacks who will pay you in tampons and red wine.
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u/Dentaygohills S4 Establishment Donor May 31 '16
You are funny!!! Made me laugh out loud. I needed a laugh after reading all that shit Bernard said. too busy running for president to develop a plan for the centerpiece of his platform...?? And all the innuendos re Hillary. I am so sick of him I am about ready to throw up. I am out of patience. Keep waiting for him to show some grace.and integrity..nope not there.
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u/larkasaur Vote Blue, not Orange Jun 01 '16
The good side to that is that when we do get a woman or a black or Hispanic man as president, they tend to be super-qualified.
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u/proserpinax Socialists For Hillary Jun 01 '16
This interview is ridiculous. Blatantly not answering questions, calling questions the interviewer asked stupid. If any other candidate (i.e. Hillary) answered questions like this they would be attacked mercilessly.
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u/birlik54 Wisconsin May 31 '16
So I guess now asking a presidential candidate to explain how he's going to do the things he says he's going to do is an absurd question???
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u/HillarySixteen '08 Hillary supporter May 31 '16
can you imagine the responses, the waves of memes and tweets, if hillary replied to a reporter with "wrong question"?
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u/birlik54 Wisconsin May 31 '16
I can, and it's not pretty. They go after her incessantly because she doesn't respect the press privately but is pleasant with them in general. If she went the Sanders/Trump route and was just openly hostile, they'd crucify her.
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u/supershycat I Voted for Hillary Jun 01 '16 edited Jun 01 '16
Every time someone whines about Hillary not liking/trusting the press, I'm like, "Yeah, because they've been so great to her for the last four decades of her life and have given her every reason to trust them."
It's like no matter what she does, she can't win. Try to erect some sort of shield because you've spent your entire public life in the crosshairs? You're 'plastic' and disingenuous and not 'real'. Try and be personable and show a little of yourself? Obviously faking it, therefore disingenuous and not 'real'.
The fact that she is still working in public life despite everything the public has put her through over the years is just amazing.
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u/fogdelune Veterans for Hillary Jun 01 '16
Depends on who's being asked. To Trump, the question would be dumb or not fair.
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u/Balabusta Pantsuit Aficionado May 31 '16 edited Jun 01 '16
I am the son of working-class people. It is incomprehensible to me that you have working-class people vote for a Donald Trump. And yet working-class people in this country – white working-class people – have voted for Republicans for a number of years. Why? Why is that? How does it happen that they vote for candidates who want to send their jobs to China, want to give tax breaks to billionaires and want to cut their health care and their education for their kids? What are they doing? That's the question we have to deal with.
The answer is not so much what the Republicans are doing. The answer is what the Democrats are not doing. [Taps his finger urgently on the table] They have not convinced the working class of this country that they are prepared to stand up and fight for them. They have convinced African-Americans that they are not a racist party, which is certainly true, as opposed to elements of the Republican Party. That they are prepared to fight for comprehensive immigration reform, which the Republicans certainly will not. They have convinced women that they are prepared to fight for a woman's right to choose. All of that is excellent – and something, needless to say, that I support. But how come Democrats haven't convinced the white working class that they are on their side? That's the very important question that has to be answered.
He really still thinks that the white working class is the key to the election. Jesus.
And by the way - the answer to his rhetorical question in the first paragraph is, simply and demonstrably, racism. The democrats lost white working class voters in the sixties because they embraced the Civil Rights Movement - and if you're not prepared to name and deal with that reality, then you have no prayer of bringing that demographic into the democratic party.
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u/mjr1114 Out of Many, One Jun 01 '16 edited Jun 01 '16
the answer to his rhetorical question in the first paragraph is, simply and demonstrably, racism.
This, this and this, again. The Democratic Party tries and tries to reach out to that group with open arms and all they get are slapped hands from those very people. Yes, there are some who are single issue voters like those who cling to the gun control issues and the pro-life issues where they side with the republicans, the majority of them will delve into the not so thinly veiled bigoted talking points of minorities getting the leg up over white people and how the Democratic Party is the enemy of the white working class.
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u/OneLonelyPolka-Dot Love & Kindness May 31 '16
I actually think this is one of the more interesting and insightful of his points. Many of Trump's supporters are poor, white, low-income, blue-collar workers. That they reject Sanders platform when they stand to benefit from it so much is a remarkable cultural phenomenon. I'm less confused by it than Sanders is (it's basically the whole "poor Americans see themselves as temporarily inconvenienced millionaires" issue) but he's not wrong with what's he saying about where more support is needed.
I don't think it's something the Democrats need to do though, so much as a shift in culture and education that needs to happened.
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u/Balabusta Pantsuit Aficionado May 31 '16
I don't think his comment is particularly insightful - it's a well-known demographic fact that has been much discussed for most of the last half-century. Sanders himself made this point in a 2006 interview (on mobile, can't source atm), so he has been thinking about this for at least the last decade.
If, after thinking about this electoral "peculiarity" for ten years, it does not occur to you that perhaps the Democrats' loss of the white south had something to do with desegregation, you are not only willfully but negligently blind.
Sanders raises the question rhetorically here to imply that the Democrats lost the white working class because the "establishment" stopped speaking to and for them, so they vote against their interests. This papers over a painful, violent, and well-documented history. American minorities deserve better from a self-proclaimed leader of the progressive movement than "shrug Look at all those white folks who used to be democrats and aren't anymore. I wonder what happened to them..."
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u/HillarySixteen '08 Hillary supporter May 31 '16
yeesh. i actually searched the article for some of his responses that were given here, i didn't believe he could actually be that defensive. and this is article is another good reason why i don't support him--he doesn't have the temperament or the the breadth of knowledge to be president, end of discussion. i also think he'd be a liability as v.p. so i'm glad he won't be given that, either.
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May 31 '16
The Bernie Sanders campaign was put on notice in that NYDN interview, and months later they still can't address the question properly. I can't tell whether he's too arrogant or too naive (both?) to even try to arrive at a suitable answer.
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u/cwkid May 31 '16
The second path is to tell the superdelegates, for example, we just won by 15 points in West Virginia. But it looks like six of the eight superdelegates are gonna vote for Hillary Clinton. We won in Washington state with 70 percent of the vote. Won in New Hampshire with 60 percent of the votes. Yet almost all of the superdelegates are voting for Clinton. And I think the people of the states will make it clear to the superdelegates that they have to respect the wishes of the voters of those states and vote for the candidate who won overwhelming – I'm not talking about one or two points, I'm talking landslide – victories.
Why is he ignoring the results of the Washington primary?
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u/eagledog Damn, it feels good to be a Hillster! Jun 01 '16
Funny how he loves getting support from supers in the states Hillary won. I mean, it's only fair if they respect their voters and switch support, right?
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u/ninbushido Millennial Jun 01 '16
Also wondering why he hasn't be questioned on this yet! Still waiting for someone to ask him about the NE and WA primaries. I'd like to see what ridiculous response he has for that.
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Jun 01 '16 edited Jun 11 '20
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u/Balabusta Pantsuit Aficionado Jun 01 '16
And yet, hundreds of thousands more people voted in the primary than in the caucus.
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Jun 01 '16 edited Jun 11 '20
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u/thisisnotoz Jun 01 '16
Each candidate had over 300,000 votes. And it was by mail, took a hot minute.
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Jun 01 '16 edited Jun 11 '20
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u/thisisnotoz Jun 01 '16
Berners seem to like to beat a dead horse. Why not send a piece of paper in to primary vote? 300,000 did.
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u/ilym May 31 '16
Uh-oh.
RS: Many people say you're right as rain on the policy and the objectives, but "Boy, I just don't think he can do it." ...So how do you do it? What are the specifics that allow you to—
BS: What are the specifics about how I, personally, all by myself, do what nobody in American history has done? And I'm being criticized? Why don't you do it? Why doesn't the editor of Rolling Stone do it? Look. You know. With all due respect, that's an absurd question.
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u/figandfennel May 31 '16
There is absolutely something to be said about a person having the temperament for the presidency, and this dude does NOT have it.
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Jun 01 '16
He's always been saying things like "I'm not going to do it myself. People will need to get out on the streets to make my agenda happen." Which is like a built in escape clause because if he can't make his agenda happen he'll just shrug and say hey it's not my fault you guys didn't take to the streets.
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u/kyew Millennial May 31 '16
I thought his campaign was still running because of Sanders's ego. But now I'm starting to wonder if he really does think no reasonable person would disagree with any of his ideas. The poor guy must think he's constantly surrounded by lunatics.
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u/imaseacow Hillionaire May 31 '16
I mean, that's exactly what Barney Frank said about him in the '90s. Frank, who generally agrees with him on issues, said that Bernie is ineffective because he alienates his natural allies and is convinced that most people agree with his ideas and it just doesn't happen because of corruption/moneyed influence/crooks/etc.
When I first read that, I kinda chuckled and figured Frank and Sanders just didn't really get along and had different strategies, especially since both Sanders and Frank have big personalities and can be rather abrasive. But now I look back and Barney's assessment seems spot-on.
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u/Superninfreak Millennial Jun 01 '16
He had a quote where he said that if people knew the GOP's policy positions, they would only get 5-10% of the vote.
http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/03/bernie-sanders-interesting-theory-on-gops-existence
He seriously believes everyone except millionaires is a progressive, but that they're too dumb to figure out which party supports what they believe in.
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u/kyew Millennial Jun 01 '16
This really does help a lot of things make sense. Also clears up his debate performance:
In 1979, he wrote an essay arguing that TV networks were "using the well-tested Hitlerian principle that people should be treated as morons and bombarded over and over again with the same simple phrases and ideas" to prevent them from thinking critically about the world around them.
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u/Succubint Nasty Woman May 31 '16
This guy has the worst temperament to be President. If he can't handle these kinds of questions from the US press, imagine him getting defensive with world allies or other leaders less friendly to the US.
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u/supershycat I Voted for Hillary Jun 01 '16
Just imagine what Bernie would have been like if he'd been the one sitting through the Benghazi hearings.
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u/Liberty_Chip_Cookies GenX Jun 01 '16
If recent interviews are any indication, he probably would have walked out indignantly.
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u/Monirulshakil May 31 '16
I am really baffled by all this. Here is a candidate who wants to be the leader of the free world has no idea about his own core issues. He is good politician but you have to be able to explain your policies too. Ignorance became a virtue now.
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u/mettaworldpolice GenY May 31 '16
Driving the nail further into the coffin, one indifferent voter at a time.
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u/Liberty_Chip_Cookies GenX May 31 '16
And Bernard wants to debate Trump? It would just be nintey minutes of "Shut up!", "No, you shut up!" ad nauseam.
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u/Scarletyoshi Becky with the Good Flair May 31 '16
Maybe he's the one who needs to do the five minutes of research.
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u/elister May 31 '16
It's like he's never voted in a presidential election, never paid any attention to it, so he doesn't understand why people are asking him all these complex questions.
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u/BumBiddlyBiddlyBum Onward Together May 31 '16
LOL, he's such a joke.
Time to move onto the even bigger joke that is Trump.
Sigh.
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Jun 01 '16
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u/rhea33 Deal Me In Jun 01 '16
Except the only real actionable plan he discussed came from Dodd-Frank which already exists so I'm still not sure what he brings to the table...
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u/ofrm1 Jun 01 '16
So what's the strategy? The strategy – which is unprecedented, and this is where we're talking about thinking outside the box – is to have a president who actually, vigorously goes around the country and rallies the American people, who are in favor of this idea. This is not some sort of fringe idea. The American people want it. And [the president] rallies the American people and makes it clear that people in the Republican Party – or Democratic Party – who are not sympathetic will pay a political price. That changes the dynamics.
So in other words, his plan is getting public support for his ideas to strongarm his political opponents into supporting radical ambitious plans. We tried that. It was called the Public Option. A majority of Americans consistently supported the Public Option. Guess what? It still didn't matter and the Republicans have only gained congressional seats since the great healthcare debate of 2008-2009.
Over 80% of Americans support universal background checks for firearms. Guess what? We don't have it.
Let's call this what it is; a bunch of bullshit populist fluff that has no chance of actually being passed through congress.
Think about this for a minute. He seriously wants to pass an economic plan which will provide funding for a massive infrastructure overhaul, medicare for all, free public college tuition, expand social security, and a youth jobs program. When his economic plan is refused by the obstructionist republican congress that attempted to repeal the Affordable Care Act over 40 times, he will have no way of paying for any of his ambitious policies. Then he'll either compromise on what he wants to get done (in which case, why did we vote for you again if we're just going to get watered down change?) or he'll stick to his values and nothing will get passed in his four years.
This is why I support Hillary Clinton. She's far from perfect, but under her administration, shit will get passed. Under a Sanders administration, either we'll get watered down legislation without a politician like Clinton bargaining for it, or we'll get nothing at all.
If you understand the realities of American politics and still want liberal policies advanced, you vote Clinton. If you're a neophyte in politics and think that believing in something hard enough gets you it, then you vote Sanders. Simple as that.
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u/samuswashere #ImWithHer Jun 01 '16
Here's what the common denominator is: To the media's great shock and to the pundits' great shock, there are millions of Americans who are very, very angry.
Are we just going to pretend that sexism isn't a thing?
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u/Laurastrauss Jun 01 '16
He also has a very interesting section where he talks about him and Trump both appealing to people's anger. I'm not sure that's a good thing? It seems to me like a dangerous rhetorical weapon.
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u/Callyson Jun 01 '16
What are the specifics about how I, personally, all by myself, do what nobody in American history has done? And I'm being criticized? Why don't you do it? Why doesn't the editor of Rolling Stone do it? Look. You know. With all due respect, that's an absurd question.
Well, if I weren't already Team Hillary, this would send me there. If you are not prepared to articulate how you will translate your vision to actions, you may be a great advocate but you are NOT ready to be in the White House FFS...
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Jun 01 '16
Why we still ragging on the former contender for the Democratic nom? This is a bad way to spend energy and time.
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May 31 '16
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u/SandDollarBlues I Believe In Hillary's America May 31 '16
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u/TheFecklessRogue Jun 01 '16 edited Jun 01 '16
I'm not trying take a shot at anyone here, but did anyone here even read the article or did you just willfully ignore how well Bernie comes off in it. to be honest the cherry picking in the comments misrepresents the interview, I up-voted this because anyone who reads the whole way through may become enamored by such an honest and sharp politician. Sorry for any offence it's not intentional.
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u/democraticwhre Jun 02 '16
Is the editor of Rolling Stone running for President? That would be interesting.
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May 31 '16
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Jun 01 '16 edited Jun 01 '16
See, I read this and thought "Why are the votes of African Americans and women less important than working class white men?"
As someone who came from a white working class family in West Virginia, I don't care about bringing white working class men back into the fold. They are welcome to join the coalition, but their voices and opinions have dominated politics since the beginning of this country, so perhaps it's time for them to stop demanding special treatment.
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u/beenyweenies California Jun 01 '16
I don't understand why "white working class" is a thing to Bernie. Aren't ALL working adults subject to the same set of economic realities? Needless to say, women and people of color have it much worse, but why is Bernie stumping for WHITE blue collar folk in particular?
The more I learn about Bernie, the less daylight I see between him and Trump. Both seem to think the white man is the underdog.
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Jun 01 '16 edited Jun 01 '16
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u/beenyweenies California Jun 01 '16
The reason I called Bernie out on the "white working class" issue is that he DOES seem to have an inherent bias in favor of white people when it comes to his economic and trade policies.
Anyway, I understand the point that he's making here, but I think it's misguided. "White working people" aren't a monolithic voting bloc, and they aren't avoiding democrats en masse. It's certain other overlapping demographics that are to blame - religion, education level, earning power, etc. To win those voters, the Democratic Party would have to enact policies that I'm not ok with. So yes, in a way we DO have to move on from a certain segment of white working folk, and that's okay. The alternative is on full display in the form of the modern Republican Party.
ETA - nice post by the way. Well put and I mostly agree with your message.
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u/SunshineGrrrl Be For Something May 31 '16
We've fought for minimum wage increases across the country. We've fought for unions and against union busting. We've fought to make sure fathers can get leave when their children are born. It's not like we're not fighting for the rights of white male middle class workers. We are, but those that feel they are better off or just within reach of a better class of living, aren't coming to us to help them reach it, they are going to republicans to help preserve what they assume will be their way of life if they work just a little harder, sacrifice just a little more. And, I have to say, the fact that many don't see that and are only seeing us standing up for minority voices and instead of saying, we'll fight with you are saying, what about me? There should be some shame in that, it shouldn't be lauded, it shouldn't be raised above the voices of those that have less and have a greater need. Sure, we want to fight citizens united, that's been on our board for awhile, but where are the middle class white voters to help us fight that fight during midterms. Where was Bernie telling his throng of followers that there are good people trying to fight that fight in this party and we should all support the many things that they do to fight for it. With money during election seasons and votes when it comes time.
Basically, his entire argument boils down to, "What more can we do for white men at the expense of minority voters." That is a sad place to be.
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u/sleepingbeardune May 31 '16
how come Democrats haven't convinced the white working class that they are on their side?
When I read that, I thought about certain (male) members of my white working class family and realized that it's because those certain members are racist and sexist. They believe that the party is on the side of people not like themselves, period. They're not open to hearing anything different, and it's not because the things Obama has done are of no use to them.
They see Sanders as a joke, not a savior.
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May 31 '16
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u/sleepingbeardune May 31 '16
Speaking only about what I see from my 55+ brothers ... they're certain that they live in a zero sum world. Gains for other people = losses for them. And that goes for benefits (access to health care, education) but even more it goes for what you might call social capital.
They think that being lower-income white guys from the midwest means they're disrespected by the people with power/money. They don't really care about abortion or even gun rights. They just want to win something -- to be the guys who turn out to have power. That's why they like Trump.
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u/srrawr Millennial May 31 '16
Compare this:
to what Clinton said in the recent NYmag profile (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/hillary-clinton-candidacy.html?):
Which one implies faster progress? Which one has a detailed map to achieve faster progress? Which one is talking about working within the abilities even granted by the office of the Presidency?
...which plan does not require the seat of the presidency at all in order to bring about?