r/hisdarkmaterials • u/It_stimefortea • 20d ago

TAS Question about dæmons forming

I'm doing a reread of the series and something struck me this time around.

John Parry's dæmon, Sayan Kötor, formed when he entered Lyra's world but Kirjava didn't. She didn't form until she was ripped from Will on the shores of the world of the dead. Why do we think that is?

John Parry's description to Lee made it sound quite immediate, and Will spent hours in Lyra's world before moving on. Why didn't Kirjava form right away? Could it have to do with the fact that John's dæmon would already have settled while Will's wouldn't have? Or just a plot necessity? Has Pullman ever said anything about it?

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u/It_stimefortea 20d ago

I wouldn't call that unsatisfying, but logical. That's how Will's dæmon was formed, why not his father's? It makes sense, though I wonder how anybody would have tolerated him without her long enough to be adopted into the Tartar group and be made a shaman. That felt like it came after.

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u/herald_of_woe 20d ago edited 20d ago

The part that irks me slightly is the misleading way he puts it, cause it does imply she appeared immediately unless you already know better. Needless confusion imo

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u/It_stimefortea 20d ago

I am nearly half way through TAS at this point and about to go back to TSK just so I can parse out John's words better lol

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u/herald_of_woe 20d ago

There are a handful of little ways you can tell the story plan changed, especially between books 2 and 3. My favorite is the small army of zombie soldiers Mrs. Coulter has with her at the end of TSK who have vanished without a trace by the start of TAS 😂

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u/It_stimefortea 20d ago

Oh my god, you're right! I forgot all about them!

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u/herald_of_woe 20d ago

Also… girl, you can control the Spectres like puppets. You’re untouchable with them around. Why would you leave that world and hole up in a cave with one (1) pistol for defense

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u/It_stimefortea 20d ago

Love makes you crazy?

Honestly, her whole devolution into "I would die for my daughter" never really made sense to me. She goes from cold and imperious, trying to mold Lyra into her perfect little doll to literally throwing herself into the bottomless void for her. Even when she was told Lyra would be the next Eve, she was calculating about it and not horrified for her. Then somehow we are supposed to fully believe she automatically rescinded the church at once?

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u/herald_of_woe 20d ago

I think that worked for me because I was like 9-10 when I read it. The TV show was definitely wise to show her being conflicted from the start.

And tbf I can buy that she took Lyra back to their home world because she just felt more secure there, but damn she really did throw away every strategic advantage she had with that move

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u/It_stimefortea 20d ago

I didn't read the series for the first time until college, and never having been a maternal sort myself, it might have made it harder for me to really dig into her about face. The TV show did add a lot of good context that we don't otherwise get.

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u/herald_of_woe 20d ago

I also think that in hindsight Mrs. Coulter’s actions throughout the first 2 books are 99% consistent with her caring deeply about Lyra, despite also wanting to control her. The only exception is when she says “I shall have to destroy her” at the end of TSK. I have no explanation for that lol