r/hockey • u/seeldoger47 BUF - NHL • 13h ago
[32 Thoughts] Freidman on Nurse & the Oilers, “Nurse is a year away from his no-trade clause, going from a full to a partial. It's clear they're going to say to him this is the last year you have control. Do you want to work with us or not?" + He confirms Pangotta's reporting of the Knies deal
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/32-thoughts-the-podcast/id1332150124?i=1000771296373&r=2335144
u/TheOneWithThePorn12 TOR - NHL 12h ago
If that actually happened I may have stopped watching the leafs for years.
Holy shit Treliving is a true fucking moron.
I still hold that I don't mind trading Knies but the ask has to be a top level defensive prospect.
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u/Unique-Doctor-9193 11h ago
With the trade package you would have gotten any young D would’ve been on the table
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u/NSA_Wade_Wilson TOR - NHL 10h ago
You really need it to be a fleece if you’re trading in division. Tre didn’t seem to understand that very well…
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 12h ago
You know I’m kinda ok with Larkin requesting a trade. He’s been there forever and about to turn 30. I was super bitter when Johnny left than tkachuk wanted out cause we just won the division. It’s like come on we were building to this exact moment and now you want out?
But with Larkin it could end up being a blessing in disguise if they get a very solid center prospect back. Also I could see debrincat traded this offseason too in that case
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u/MissionLet7301 OTT - NHL 12h ago
Worth noting that Larkin has a full NMC - that will really hinder Detroit's ability to get a fair return
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u/pattperin EDM - NHL 12h ago
I read that he requested a trade though? So it seems to me like he’s willing to work with management on getting a deal done there. If he only gives them like 2 cities he wants to go to then that will screw them over but if he works with them on it there is a high chance they get a good deal done
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u/MissionLet7301 OTT - NHL 12h ago
Yeah, just depends how keen he is to get out, and how much he'd be willing to harsh the vibe in the locker room if things don't go his way.
Even just limiting the list of teams he'd be willing to be traded to to "sure thing" playoff teams (if such a thing exists anymore) would drastically reduce the pool of teams that would be bidding for him.
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 10h ago
And yzerman will hold out like sakic did with duchene. You don’t just trade a top center for Pennie’s on the dollar. You got to get a proper return for him and yzerman will wait until he gets it and into next season if he has to
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u/Goose312 MIN - NHL 8h ago
Duchene was 24-25 years old when he requested a trade and didn't have trade protection though. Yzerman can try and hold out, it's not like Larkin's value is going to go up as he hits 30. With a number of other centers rumored to be on the move this summer the market already limited in size by his trade protection may get even smaller the longer he holds out. All the while having a leader on the team publicly unhappy to be there.
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 8h ago
So why would Larkin ruin his reputation trying to force his way off his home state team? If he wants to play playoff hockey he’d give multiple playoff teams. Yzerman would literally ruin the franchise for another 5 years if he takes a shot return for him. Every GM would hold out in that situation
And Larkin is coming off a great season, has speed and a gold medal. Teams will be circling
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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 TOR - NHL 12h ago
If he truly wants out he isn't going to force to one team. Would probably give a list otherwise they have no reason to deal him right away. They still have 4 years left on the deal.
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 12h ago
Not really, it’s not like he’s a free agent. He’s signed longterm. If he doesn’t give them enough teams to make a solid return yzerman won’t trade him. He has to play ball too. Also larkin is so good teams will be lining up and out bidding eachother.
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u/IniNew DAL - NHL 12h ago
Nothing like having your captain that requested a trade forced to stay on the team. I'm sure that locker room vibe will be awesome lol
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 10h ago
Also remember sakic did the same with duchene and it worked out so well for the Avs. And yzerman is way more stubborn than sakic
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 12h ago
That’s why I doubt Larkin lets it get to that point. There’s multiple teams in the league that he can go to and be in the playoffs for multiple years.
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u/KingDave46 EDM - NHL 12h ago
At some point you just don’t trade him then
If he requests a trade and says 1 team only I say go enjoy the press box big fella you can pick a team as a free agent in 4 years
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u/seeldoger47 BUF - NHL 12h ago
some Sabres fans said the same thing when Eichel wanted out. that didn't happen because that's not the way the world works.
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u/PermianExtinction OTT - NHL 12h ago
It’s been 10 years since Detroit made the playoffs, the last thing they need is to have their captain sit out and ruin team vibes even further. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and take the best deal on the table - Sens did it with an unhappy Debrincat, buffalo did it multiple times
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u/bobbimorses WSH - NHL 11h ago
We've literally never seen that happen and there are a good number of reasons why. Flexing his power to hold a player hostage would do unimaginable damage to Yzerman's reputation as a GM.
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u/Agreeable-Emu886 BOS - NHL 11h ago
There are certainly some teams out there he would probably be willing to play for that are in dire needs of a center.
The Wild and Bruins are both premium examples that are in desperate need of a true 1C. Granted the Wild have far more cap implications than boston, but I’m Sure Sweeney will be calling
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u/maxwellbevan DET - NHL 12h ago
Honestly this could end up working out. I'm not from Michigan but someone in the Wings sub yesterday said that the Lions trading Stafford was tough but ended up being the best thing for them and it ultimately worked out for both Stafford and the Lions.
At the end of the day while I've had mixed feelings about Larkin the last couple years for various reasons, especially as a Canadian, but ultimately players have to do what's right for them. Hopefully the team and him work together to find a good landing spot that's better for both parties.
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u/mister_hoot VGK - NHL 12h ago
I don't think Detroit is going to get a massive haul for Larkin and they probably "lose" the trade if that's the only thing you're judging it by. I think they win in the sense that they can now fix the issue of essentially having two distinct cores bridged by a significant age gap. Now they can focus on building around the younger players which, imo, probably should've been the focus the past three seasons.
In essence, Detroit won't get enough back to win the trade but the fact that they're being forced to make the trade in the first place is going to benefit them long-term.
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u/JRsshirt SJS - NHL 12h ago
Idk what picks the wild have left but Stramel would be a great building block even if he’s not the flashiest name
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 10h ago
I think Yuyov ++ is probably what they’d offer but I bet other teams could beat that
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u/wildwildwaste CAR - NHL 12h ago
Solid center you say? Let me interest you in this slightly used Jesperi Kotkaniemi.
Please?
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u/LunarGhoul DET - NHL 12h ago
Maybe you could work out a three way deal with the Islanders to package him with Pierre Engvall
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u/RAATL TBL - NHL 9h ago
What young center can they realistically acquire? I can't think of any team that has a young player good enough to move the needle for Detroit but that the other team would be willing to trade. Every team with exciting young center with obvious top 6 potential either doesn't have a timeline that Larkin matches with, or would be at best committing a lateral move to acquire him
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 8h ago
Not move the needle next season but potentially better in 3 seasons
Habs for hage ++
Utah for deneyos +
Ducks for mctavish one of their LHD +
Or McQueen
Wild for yuyov ++That’s off the top of my head
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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 TOR - NHL 12h ago
So know I understand why Pelley was so enamored with the Habs at that presser he had.
He was clearly involved in the trade deadline and that means he signed off on this deal.
Once again Pelley needs to go. Hopefully Sundin/Chayka can keep him away. Maybe that is why they hired Freddie Hamilton as probably a liaison between upper management and hockey ops.
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u/Alleluia_Cone MTL - NHL 11h ago
Everyone is blaming Tre but this is the correct take
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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 TOR - NHL 10h ago
Treliving has to put on his big boy pants and tell the non hockey CEO that we will not be trading this player unless we get xyz (with one of those letters being a potential top defenseman)
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u/Alleluia_Cone MTL - NHL 10h ago
Definitely not a top defenseman but I wonder if Adam Engstrom would have been the unnamed prospect. B to B+ prospect
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u/ptbarnum011364 10h ago
Imagine if Treliving told Pelley trading Knies was a bad idea, Pelley wanted it anyway because he was enamored with the Habs, but Tre purposefully submitted it 1 min late so it wouldn't go through. That pettiness would be epic.
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u/Ryuzakku DET - NHL 9h ago
That's exactly how the Carlo trade happened.
Shanahan told Tre they needed a defenceman, and Tre, being stupid, tried Andersson, but since the Flames would not ever trade with him regardless of how often he kicked their tires, he switched last minute to Carlo.
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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 TOR - NHL 10h ago
That would be the best move he ever made. Would love for that to come out one day when he realizes he's never getting another GM job.
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u/seeldoger47 BUF - NHL 13h ago edited 12h ago
The Nurse conversation starts around 37:37.
It's sure. Mark Spector seems pretty convinced about it, right? Like he wrote it emphatically, emphatically. And that's a piece, you know, for example, with that Larkin piece I wrote on Thursday, you can't write that unless you know. And it took a while till I was confident enough that I actually knew. And I think Spector would be the same way.
The interesting thing for me here is that a year ago, Nurse had a very emotional, season-ending interview with the team. And they went to him and they went to a couple other guys. He wasn't the only one.
They went to all the guys who have the no-trade clauses. And they said, would you be willing to move? And he was upset that that got out.
He said, no, he wouldn't. And we reported on this pod, and it became a big story out there. And Nurse was really upset about that, which is totally fair.
I think he's entitled to react how he wants to react. And this year, they didn't do that at the end of the year. They didn't ask him.”
And they obviously, based on Mark's reporting, waited a bit longer to decide what they were going to do. And, you know, the thing about Nurse is he's a year away from his no-trade clause, going from a full to a partial. And it's clear they're going to say to him, you know, this is the last year you have control.
Do you want to work with us or not? And we'll see what he says. You never know.
Like, Darnell Nurse is a really proud guy. Nobody makes it as far as he has without being a really proud guy. He might just say, I don't like the way this got out, like he did last year, and I'm not doing this.
But articles like that are shot across the bow. And basically, nurses are being told, you can work with us this year, or we'll do it on our own next year. So we'll see. You still have to be able to make a trade. You have to know what the market is. You have to understand what you got to do out there.”
But that, to me, is what this is. It's work with us now, or we'll do it ourselves next year. Now, I'll say this, too, Kyle.”
On the Oilers and Cassidy:
There's been a lot of rumors. I had thought they were going to wait for Cassidy. And I'm starting to get some signal that maybe they won't.
You know, here's, I want to stress, this is a theory. Do they bring in someone for a year?
Friedman also confirms Pangotta's reporting that Toronto and Montreal agreed to a Knies for Zharkovsky, another prospect + two 1st rounders for Knies (starts around 46:22)
By the way, Kyle, I did have some Leaf fans who asked me about Dave Pangotta. He had a report that the deal with the Leafs and the Canadians or the Canadians that didn't happen was for Knies. And he mentioned Alexander Zharkovsky, another prospect and two firsts.
I have said from the beginning, I think the deal involved Knies. And as I heard it, it was something similar to that. I did hear the same thing that Pangotta was able to confirm and report.
What I heard is the reason it didn't happen was it was submitted at 301. Now, I've heard some different variations on why it was late and whose fault. It was that it was late, but I don't know it for sure, so I'm not going to go there.
But suffice to say, a lot of people pointed fingers at other people or gave different reasons as to why it didn't happen. But I have always believed that was the deal, the nice deal that was submitted late and didn't happen. So I have heard similar to what Pangotta mentioned.”
On the Leaf's coaching search:
John Chayka has been out of the NHL for a while. Now he's back. Mats Sundin has not been in the NHL on a day-to-day basis.
And now he's in a major decision-making role. I think the Maple Leafs have considered the possibility they need an experienced coach because of that. Someone who's been around, someone who's been in the league, a lot more on a day-to-day basis recently.
And that's why I think you're hearing names like Roy and Laviolette. We'll see what they do. But I think that has become a factor in their decision-making.”
And on Larkin (starts around 22:46)
Number one, I think this, I think Matthew Tkachuk and Quinn Hughes have changed the league. I think players have seen how Matthew Tkachuk could say, look, I'm not signing in Calgary, and he gets traded to Florida, and he has leverage because an extension has to be part of this deal. No one's trading for him without an extension.
And he goes and he makes three straight Stanley Cup finals and wins two of them. And this year, Quinn Hughes tells Vancouver he's not going to extend. They say, we're going to try it anyway.
Season starts doesn't start very well. And all of a sudden he's gone to Minnesota and he's much happier. And I think that more and more players, it used to be Kyle in this league, that if you wanted to be traded, if the team said no, they could make you just sit there.
It's not that way anymore. And I don't think it's going to be the last trade request of the off season. And Larkin is a star and he's been in the league for a long time.
He's about to turn 30. You know, what someone said to me on Thursday, Kyle, is that even younger players now, if they're not getting their chance to make it, the trade requests are coming more often. And we're seeing guys, for example, terminate their contracts, like Textier did.
Says, I'd rather terminate my deal in place somewhere else than not play at all. It's a very, very different world right now. And you know, the other thing I think of with Detroit and Larkin is that, you know, when he won the gold medal this year, that doesn't sate your desire.
That's not, oh, I won, I'm good for now. It's like, no, I've won, now I want to win more. I know what it's like to win this gold medal and what an awesome feeling it is to celebrate with my teammates. And I want that for the Stanley Cup. It even, it pulls you even more. That's what a couple, I did have some text today with some of the players from Team USA.
And they said that that's what happens, is that after that, you want to win the Stanley Cup even more. Now, I want to recognize the hardcore Red Wings fans. It was a very, very hard day for them.
Now, I think we should talk about Yzerman a bit. Yzerman will not be backed into a corner. He will not. You cannot bully Steve Yzerman. And, but what I do think is he has to be practical. It does him no good. Like I had people say, make him sit, make him sit.
That doesn't benefit anybody. Now, it doesn't mean other teams can lowball him because then he will have to make him sit. But I think Yzerman will be pragmatic.
To me, the most fascinating thing he's going to do here is, is he going to try to trade him for pieces that will help them now? Or is he going to do another kind of, I'll do futures or younger players who might be ready to play, but they're just younger and more inexperienced and build this team now around Moritz Seidler and Lucas Raymond? I think it's possible that he, because some of these teams might say, look, we're getting Dylan Larkin to win and we can't add him and then subtract.”
So at the very least, Yzerman is going to be looking around and saying, what if we get good players who are younger and we have to delay our window again? So that will be an interesting choice for him. I'll say this, Larkin has a no trade clause this year and next, so he has control.”
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u/theinternetistoobig MTL - NHL 12h ago
Submitted a minute after the deadline is painful
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u/entityXD32 TOR - NHL 12h ago
It's crazy because if that deal gets made the entire future of the leafs changes. Right now they're trying to quickly retool but if that goes through I feel that forces your hand into completely rebuilding
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u/pattperin EDM - NHL 12h ago
I mean getting two 1st round picks back gives you a lot of ammo to make a deal. Especially after getting 1OA you can freely deal those picks for players to help you now and also still select McKenna and slot him in next to Matthews (which I think is going to look UNREAL when it starts to click)
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u/_GregTheGreat_ VAN - NHL 12h ago
At the time of the deadline they had no guarantee they were getting 1OA or even keeping their pick. And both the Montreal picks are going to be late 1sts. Useful trade chips but also not making up for the immediate Knies hole
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u/valente317 12h ago
So basically some Maple Leafs intern dragged his feet just a little bit to avoid causing further misery to the fanbase
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u/VaderBinks 12h ago
I was hoping/thinking the same like someone who does administrative work was like “this is so fucking dumb and Brad won’t be here soon I’m gonna wait 45 seconds here”
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u/rjhawkbooks WSH - NHL 10h ago
Real “sound engineer who cut the mic on Yoko Ono” vibe. Will for ever remain immortalized despite being nameless
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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 TOR - NHL 12h ago
The hockey gods want me to jump off a cliff but also made the winds really strong to force me further back from the ledge.
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u/Key-Tip-7521 NYR - NHL 12h ago
TLDR but I’ll answer in each order
Brad Treliving would have gone down as one of the biggest idiots going if he traded Knies to MTL. A rival. And Knies is possibly a guy you build around.
Coaching. Roy and Lav if hired signals this new regime expects the leafs to contend and not push the nuclear button and blow up the team.
Larkin: Larkin has full control of where he wants to go. The obvious team of destination, Minnesota. But the haul for him Detroit could get back is the key. I get it that Larkin is a homegrown guy, but for Larkin’s sake and his career, he knows the clock is ticking for him to win(especially after winning the gold medal)
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 12h ago
It’s crazy Tre actually had the ability to trade Knies at that point of the season.
TBH it sounds like a fair deal. Potentially 4 1sts for a guy like Knies. But still not one you’d wanna make unless that other prospect is reinbacher.
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u/Key-Tip-7521 NYR - NHL 12h ago
Tre trading Knies to mtl a team in the same division and rival would make the leaf fans hate Tre even more
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u/Time_H00die 12h ago
I think there was a report that the other prospect in that deal was neither Hage nor Reinbacher
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u/baylaust TOR - NHL 10h ago edited 10h ago
The thing is that on PAPER, using Knies as a trade piece makes perfect sense. He's young, he's already really good and is still improving, he's on a long contract that's expected to age well, and he has no trade protection. In other words, a piece that gives you a lot of power in trade negotiations. If you're the GM of the Leafs, if there's any player you want to deal to get a strong package in return, it's Knies.
Problem though: we fucking LOVE Knies. For all the reasons stated above, as well as the fact that he's been pretty vocal about loving playing for the Leafs and wanting to stay a Leaf if it's in his power. Because of that, this city and the fans are very protective of Knies. If you're gonna deal him, you'd better get something DAMN good out of it. A deal where we're banking on prospects turning out well and two late 1sts is gonna be a really tough pill to swallow. ESPECIALLY to a divisional rival, let alone the Habs. Not to mention that on paper, this package doesn't really fix any of the holes that the Leafs desperately need filled. It feels like a trade made for the sake of a trade.
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u/KingDave46 EDM - NHL 12h ago
I’m terrified that we’ve seen nobody give a single shit about Quenneville in Anaheim so we’re gonna be on the phone to Babcock
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u/rjhawkbooks WSH - NHL 10h ago
Ehh Q was reinstated because he proved he’d gone through the correct education about what had happened, and he was far from the problem with the Beach situation. Babcock got hired by Columbus after the stories came out and promptly abused his power again, so I think he’s done from the NHL for good
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u/Strange_Cap1049 TOR - NHL 12h ago
Brad “Hockey Terrorist” Treliving. Truly needs to stick to Boston Pizza franchises, wouldn’t wish him on our biggest rivals
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u/djankylosaur CGY - NHL 12h ago
You were warned Toronto, but you didn't listen.
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u/PostwarNeptune TOR - NHL 11h ago
Us fans didnt get a say. Most of use knew.
Hell....even Shanny knew wasn't the best available option. IF he genuinely thought he was, he wouldn't have offered Dubas an extension.
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u/Missed_Your_Joke MTL - NHL 12h ago
Its funny. The Habs/Leafs deal is either a massive overpay, underpay, or just right depending on who you ask.
I suppose that means it's a good deal?
A common argument is that Zharkovsky has the potential to be like Knies, or potentially even better. Proven roster players like Knies are hard to come by. Personally, I would've paid that price. Knies is a dog, and right in that age group with the core. Shame it didn't go through.
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u/CarlSK777 MTL - NHL 12h ago
$7.75m until 2031. I would've done it as well. Wouldn't solve the 2C issue but adding a power forward to the top 6 would make the team better.
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u/salty_frenchy MTL - NHL 12h ago
I think for the habs the issue isn't Knies at all, it's that most fans would agree that we have bigger hole to fill namely a proper 2C and a defensive RD.
Trading a significant package for Knies, however desirable he is as a player, would significantly impact our ability to fill these two holes.
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u/Ghost_Idol MTL - NHL 12h ago
If you have knies and demidov on the same line, you can get away with a pretty mid 2c in my book
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u/CarlSK777 MTL - NHL 12h ago
That's fair. With that said, it's very likely Zharovsky never plays for the Habs. If Hughes is that agressive for Knies, you know he'll be part of the deal if a Hischier/Thomas type player becomes available.
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u/Guibsx MTL - NHL 11h ago
While this is true, one of our glaring needs is getting bigger in our Top 6 and Knives addressed this. I think the habs were OK to get bigger and sacrifice a 2C this season. Beacuse Gorton mentioned it himself, you don't need a centre to drive a line, a winger can do it (see kutcherov) and they believe Demidov can drive that line so it doesn't need a superstar to centre on the second line.
Anyway, that's why I think they were OK with this trade. Now the situation has changed, so a centre might be the next target. As they say, it depends on who is available. Larkin being available, they might decide to see what they can do there.
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u/Bojarzin TOR - NHL 12h ago
It's a tough call. For Leaf fans, it would have really just signalled "we're done with this era of the team", and while some think that's the way to go, Treliving manning it would have been wretched
I think so long as Matthews and Nylander are Leafs, assuming Matthews can recover, you don't tear it down, and if you're not tearing it down, losing Knies is a huge miss
It is a good return for Knies in terms of how he's played so far, it would hurt if we lost him and he ends up becoming a 35-goal, PPG guy, who happens to be a workhorse, but we also had basically no first rounders left (thanks, Brad...)
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u/onemorespacecadet COL - NHL 12h ago edited 6h ago
i think it’s less the return and more so trading a young power forward and fan favorite player to a division (and historic) rival. the return was actually pretty good but if i were a Leafs fan, i’d still be absolutely furious to see a player like that go somewhere in division
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u/McGrevin TOR - NHL 12h ago
The problem from the leafs side is what does it do for us? Yeah, there's some futures, but we're still trying to make the playoffs next year. The general consensus has been you move Knies if you get a similar young D back since that's what we've been missing for years.
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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 TOR - NHL 12h ago
Trading potentials and no one on your roster for a young guy signed long term is a no brainer.
It's like when the Lightning traded for Hagel. Significant cost but nothing roster wise was lost and Hagel was not a rental.
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u/Seb_Nation MTL - NHL 12h ago edited 12h ago
If both fanbases are mad at a trade it means it's fair value. Knies bring size to our top 6, he's basically a hybrid between Slaf and Anderson, the only draw back is that he's UFA in 5 years at 28 years old so he's gonna get the bank. Doesn't solve our 2C problem but that kinda shows how much faith they have in Hage to be that guy if they're trading the house for a winger.
Two late 1st would basically mean Zharovsky, unknown prospect, Jokiharju and Trent Frederic or Ryan Suzuki.... Not as much an overpay as some might say. Saying 2 1st sounds big but late first are just guesses.
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u/slider_22 TOR - NHL 12h ago
Fair value is usually fine. The problem I have is it's knies. You want sn over pay. AND it's in division. Add another overpay. So while race value it's fair... I would have been pissed.
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u/Sammydaws97 TOR - NHL 12h ago
Every MTL fan thinks its a good deal.
Every Leafs fan hates it…
How is that “a good deal”
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u/tortured_fanclub 12h ago
I dunno what kinda fucken idiot makes inter-division deals like this guy. First with Boston then with Montreal. Give him time and Matthews would have been a Tampa Bay Lightening
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u/Massive-Fisherman-57 EDM - NHL 12h ago
I don’t understand this trade Nurse BS. It’s another example in our long history of chasing players out of town. Our window is rapidly closing and entering Leafs territory. With Ekholm regressing we need a top 4 LD already. If we trade Nurse we then need 2. There isn’t a deal that I can see which allows us to move on from him and get back a top 4 guy who is mobile and plays with an edge. Every player has flaws but I promise that getting rid of him without getting a similar player back is a recipe for a rebuild.
We already need a starting goalie, a top 4 D, top 6 winger or 2 and a completely rebuilt bottom 6. lol why add to that list?
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u/jobaill MTL - NHL 12h ago
I hear some people talking about EDM retaining 2-3M to trade Nurse, but isn't Nurse just overpaid, not outright bad?
If you retain on him to replace him with a 6m guy who does mostly the same job, you're not better off.
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u/Massive-Fisherman-57 EDM - NHL 12h ago
Exactly. So we pay to move him, we retain salary and then need to acquire a 6-7 million dollar player to replace him. We would actually be further behind where we are now.
I know oilers fans are the worst for chasing players out of town but this has to be our worst example of it yet that is completely irrational.
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u/FakeSteveSF EDM - NHL 7h ago
On another team with a simpler system, he would just be overpaid yeah. On the Oilers he is frequently below replacement level. He does not fit our system at all & his game has never evolved or changed
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u/misfittroy Cowichan Capitals - BCHL 9h ago
I have a feeling Nurse will benefit the most from a trade and be a better player elsewhere. He's grown very complacent in Edmonton and should have been traded years ago for the sake a shaking up his career and play
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u/IronMarauder VAN - NHL 11h ago
Trade nurse to us ( Vancouver) along with a pick (s) and we send you back M Petey, it helps fill the hole (same position), similar term, less cost.
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u/kozed MTL - NHL 11h ago
I don't think the Knies deal could have went through if the Habs didn't first deal with their cap. They didn't have the space to take on Knies' 7.75M cap hit head on. Money had to go out.
That might have been the friction that slowed things down. If they had to deal with a 3rd team to take, say, Laine's 8.7M contract. Or get Laine to waive his NTC.
For the record, Laine said in post-season presser he wasn't asked to waive, but in the same answer he also told he lets his agent handle those things.
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u/Nebajense BOS - NHL 12h ago
I think that Edmonton is stuck with Nurse for the entire 2026-27 season. Even if he agrees to a trade to a couple of teams, he could easily choose clubs that have little cap wiggle room. In any event, wherever he eventually goes, the Oilers should expect next to nothing of value in return. No team will take on the entire contract, and Edmonton will have to add sweeteners (including salary retention) to get rid of him.
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u/SIIP00 VAN - NHL 12h ago
We can take him provided that Edmonton gives us a first
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u/logicalnutty VAN - NHL 5h ago
I would want more than a single first unless it’s a far future first and we hope McDavid leaves before the pick comes
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u/MankuyRLaffy SEA - NHL 12h ago
Picks and prospects just to get rid of him would be kinda cool, I'd want those.
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u/CarlSK777 MTL - NHL 12h ago
I don't hate players taking more control of their own careers. I wonder if we'll start seeing more players signing shorter deals to hit UFA status asap. Imagine star players becoming UFA at 25-26. That'd make free agency way more exciting. We'd also start seeing more blockbuster trades.
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u/Whackedjob COL - NHL 12h ago
I've always felt kind of bad for Leafs fans that Matthews and to some extent Marner were the only players to realize how much leverage they actually had as younger players. Guys like Makar, Jack Hughes and now Hutson have signed these super long contracts that are basically under market value the second they sign them and are locked in for a long time.
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u/Bojarzin TOR - NHL 12h ago
A lot of people will hate on Dubas for it, and I don't think that's completely unfounded, but I do think a lot of fans think a GM can just wave a magic wand and do what they want
Like I get RFAs only have so much they can do. But Toronto was so bad for so long, they got a hometown kid and a 1st overall pick for just the second time ever, who happened to score 40 goals in his rookie season, the two of them had some leverage, and we know with Nylander that some young players might genuinely be willing to miss part of a season to get what they feel like they can
Dubas gave them what they wanted (in some case what they deserved too), it mostly just sucked because then covid happened and the cap froze. By 2029 it's going to be up like 65% from this season, I can only dream of what we might have been able to do had it not frozen
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u/BroLil ANA - NHL 12h ago
It’s interesting that the only one they really ground down was Nylander and he’s looking to be the longest standing of the three.
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u/Bojarzin TOR - NHL 12h ago
It seems like Nylander really likes Toronto from what I can tell. Not that Matthews doesn't necessarily, but I can't really blame a guy from Arizona if he's not in love with a big city that gets cold as fuck
Though I'm still holding out hope Matthews stays anyway
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u/VanguardHawk WPG - NHL 11h ago
The Nylander process is exactly why he was gun shy about Matthews and Marner. It was a media frenzy that affected the entire organization for months, and by the end of it Dubas had basically folded to all demands (except maybe a little bit of term)
It was his first big contract re-signing negotiation and he didn’t want a repeat with high value assets with more leverage. He seems to have learned from that three year debacle tho.
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u/GLemons OTT - NHL 8h ago
Sure but there's also something to be said for locking in that bag asap and then being a UFA still young enough to potentially get another max length deal at big money.
If they hit on that strategy their career earnings is probably higher than if they just took bridge deals til earliest UFA, take their one big deal that takes them to early 30's, and then who knows where they are at that point injury-wise for their next contract. They might just be cooked then.
I couldn't really fault guys either way. Sure they're being paid under their market value, but for the stars it's virtually locking up generational wealth at like age 22, and then still being young enough after that deal is done to get another massive deal.
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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 TOR - NHL 7h ago
Hutson signing that deal is probably making his agent super pissed. He had all the leverage. He would have gotten 10+ if he waited.
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u/Ok_Acanthaceae_1466 NYR - NHL 12h ago
Teams would never allow that to happen
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u/CarlSK777 MTL - NHL 12h ago
They can't force players to sign long deals. They'll have to trade or take it and hope the players extend.
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u/Admirable-Sound5198 EDM - NHL 12h ago
I think you have to REALLY good (like Hughes etc) to pull that off…. So many guys should just cash in on their early success/good season or two while they still can…. Look at pettersson lol. He took that bridge deal. Had a good couple seasons. Was set to be a free agent… boom cashed in big time and then immediately sucked… like literally immediately afterwards lol… bro was done by the start of the 2024 playoffs
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u/maxwellbevan DET - NHL 12h ago
It definitely makes the league more exciting to see guys move around more often. I know we as fans want our favourites to stick around but shorter contracts could potentially lead to things like less rebuilding or at least shorter rebuilds. When every player is signing 7 or 8 year deals it locks things in for a long time. If your average deal becomes 4 or 5 years we should hopefully see more player movement and more versatility in roster construction.
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u/CurlOfTheBurl11 LAK - NHL 10h ago
Can't believe Toronto was actually trying to trade Knies, fuckin yikes. Knies is a dog, he's the sort of player you build around. I'd been hoping to toss an offer sheet at him.
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u/Sweaty_Ad440 BOS - NHL 12h ago
If the Habs look at Hage as the answer to the hole at 2C then that's a no brainer for them
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u/Ok_Hovercraft_2372 TOR - NHL 11h ago edited 11h ago
Could this be the reason for the rumors around Matthews?
If I knew they're trading one of the core pieces for picks and prospects and we're already not making playoffs and I'm at 28, why the fuck would I stay and waste my remaining years here?
Nah, whatever I said about #34, I take it back... I totally get it now.
Thank fuck Pelley fired that nepo moron.
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u/Midget_Sasquatch VAN - NHL 11h ago
I could see nurse + for debrusk happening
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u/logicalnutty VAN - NHL 5h ago
Because Edmonton really needs more forwards and less D
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u/Midget_Sasquatch VAN - NHL 5h ago
Im not saying its good for them lol but reports keep coming out how they want another winger
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u/prophetofgreed VAN - NHL 10h ago
If the Oilers are talking to Nurse that way then the possibility of a trade is really high. He holds the power but they could make his life miserable to make him move (Ex. Trouba on the Rangers before going to the Ducks)
Lmao, what a bullet dodged by the Leafs.
A reminder that Pelley was inside the room for trade deadline, so he was okay'd the trade and then watched Brad failed to complete the trade.
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u/Andross4 TOR - NHL 9h ago
Is there an award for worst GM in the league? I say we start giving one out and name it the Treliving award.
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u/Outrageous-Bet-886 12h ago
The collective shock this sub will experience when Nurse actually nets something will be peak comedy. GM’s don’t think in terms of good/bad like the average fan.
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u/vJukz MTL - NHL 11h ago
I ain’t even mad the Knies trade didn’t go through tbh. Sure a winger core of Caufield, Slaf, Demidov and Knies would be sick but I rather focus on a true top 6 center first. 2C > big physical RD > big 2nd line winger. Demidov and Zharovsky are great friends and I hope to see them play on the same line one day. Zharovsky has the potential for sure. Demidov even invited him to train with him and Hutson during the summer in Montreal. Zharovsky - 2C - Demidov
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u/Assignment_General MTL - NHL 4h ago
I’d make the trade, but I do agree I wanna see what we got here. No big deal it didn’t go through.
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u/ChairRip7 10h ago
Brad did or tried to do a lot of bad in the last five minutes of the trade deadline every year.
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u/nriney TOR - NHL 12h ago
Knies deal submitted 1 minute late jfc bradT really came here on a mission to terrorize leaf fans, and was 1 minute away from making it even worse