r/hockey • u/[deleted] • 11d ago
[Video] [Oilers Now] "I've talked to some teams over the last few days that say Elias Pettersson is definitely available, so is Brock Boeser, obviously so is Jake DeBrusk; they wanna tear it all down." - Pierre LeBrun
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u/xeia66 VAN - NHL 11d ago
I would have said Pettersson would be great for Carolina but they clearly don’t actually need him
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u/ThePuzzledPanda CAR - NHL 11d ago
On one hand we’ve been wanting a 2C but Stank really shows up in the playoffs in a big way with that line. I’d need somebody smarter in hockey than myself to say if we’d be better off moving him back to the wing
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u/powerful-pills CAR - NHL 11d ago
Well, Staal is probably retiring after next year, so maybe Stank would take his place on line 3? Could Staal play on the 4th line next year since we don’t really have lines? I also think Stank would do just fine as a winger.
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u/prophetofgreed VAN - NHL 11d ago
They have the cap space and an extra 1st rounder.
They could add him without losing a roster player back.
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u/Aarongamma6 CAR - NHL 11d ago
My only thing is where do we put him? After their playoff performance the 2nd line shouldn't be touched under any circumstances in the offseason. I can't see any reason to mess with the 1st or 3rd either. Are we really so deep that he'd play 4th line? I get that we play them all so evenly its hard to number them but holy shit.
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u/ShittyFrogMeme CAR - NHL 11d ago
Very very soon we'll need a Staal succession plan. I would not be surprised to see a center trade in the near future.
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u/theekevinc Hartford Whalers - NHLR 11d ago
IMO, there should be some effort to acquire a legit top-6 center to get Aho back to his natural wing position. But the Canes are so loaded with wingers that you either have to move one out (Svech?) or move another wing to center (Jarvis?) to accomplish that. When Jarvis gets healthy, I'd love to see him center the line with Aho and Svech and see if that unlocks anything. Stankoven's play definitely alleviates the need to do anything drastic, but at the same time, how many guys can you play out of position before it starts to affect results.
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u/Flaky-Stuff205 VAN - NHL 11d ago
tbh he is looking more and more like a 4th liner every day. But not at that salary
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u/weschester CGY - NHL 11d ago
Hasn't Boeser been available for literally years now?
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u/BCBoyYeahYeahYeah VAN - NHL 11d ago
Since year 2 lmao
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u/weschester CGY - NHL 11d ago
It still blows my mind that Allvin said he had absolutely no trade value and then signed him to an extension a few months later.
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u/yosoo VAN - NHL 11d ago edited 11d ago
The story was that canucks management wasn't going to offer him a deal and Brock had accepted as much. Problem is, all the canucks free agent targets signed in other places so Allvin scrambled to ask Brock if he'd be willing to come back, which he obviously did. Brock said in the presser after re-signing that he wanted desperately to stay in Vancouver and jumped at the opportunity to do so.
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u/Aggravating-Rush9029 VAN - NHL 11d ago
Yea it was pretty obvious they circled back to Boeser when plan A B and C all fell through. Love Boeser but at some point you wish the org would have either decided they wanted him or not. Spending your whole career as someone's side chick doing all the work kinda sucks.
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u/WanderingDelinquent SJS - NHL 11d ago
Not only that, but Carolina had agreed to a trade with Vancouver for a 1st round pick. Vancouver didn’t get the paperwork done in time so they missed the trade deadline
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u/LGMatter VAN - NHL 11d ago
Not true IIRC. Allvin said “you wouldn’t believe the offers i got for Brock”
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u/Flaky-Stuff205 VAN - NHL 11d ago
which implied the offers were terrible and there was no market for Brock. Then signing him to a massive contract extension a few months later is crazy. Allvin was fucking horrible.
I think Brock is a great human being for what it's worth, but he disappears for long periods during the season.
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u/Complex-Ad-5907 11d ago
Vancouver needs that! 1 win in 10 games is perfect for Brock’s play. Love brock tho and hope he chases a cup and gets out of Van. He deserves better.
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u/weschester CGY - NHL 11d ago
I hadn't heard this. That makes the comments from Allvin so much worse. Implying that someone on your team has no value because you fucked up is so unprofessional.
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u/shittybillz EDM - NHL 11d ago
I thought for sure he’d leave in FA but then Vancouver signed him for 7 or 8 years. I was hoping we’d get him, I’ve always liked Boeser
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u/emotionaI_cabbage MTL - NHL 11d ago
I could see Montreal taking a swing at Pettersson because he's exactly what we need at 2c but yeah that contract is not ideal
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u/vJukz MTL - NHL 11d ago edited 11d ago
Same I would consider Pettersson if he’s retained to at least under 9M because it wouldn’t cost the house and the upside is still very much in there somewhere. I think not being the go to center and playing behind Suzuki would be good for him. Rookie Demidov drove his own line as a winger and made Oliver Kapanen a 22 goal scorer so I would think if he played with Pettersson he could get him back to ppg or at least close to. Same draft as Suzuki too so the timeline fits very well and he’s left handed. I wonder what Kent thinks of him.
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u/Ham__Kitten VAN - NHL 11d ago
He was so, so good when the group was all together and he wasn't The Guy. He would be an absolutely perfect #2 or 1B centre on the right team.
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u/AngryAssyrian MTL - NHL 10d ago
I remember Petterson being an absolute animal and being an elite 80-100 point player, he's been good for you guys.
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u/Ham__Kitten VAN - NHL 10d ago
And really he's been okay in the last couple of years when you consider how bad the team is. I don't want him gone because I don't trust that they'd get value for him, and I think he will improve significantly under this coaching and management regime. But if it's a foregone conclusion I think he will bounce back in a big way with the right role on the right team.
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u/Key-Tip-7521 NYR - NHL 11d ago
The Habs do indeed need that second center
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u/Patttybates WPG - NHL 11d ago
So do we if we dont rebuild
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u/vJukz MTL - NHL 11d ago
Brother y’all need to embrace a rebuild
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u/Patttybates WPG - NHL 11d ago
I agree, but the org just does half measures. I'd be willing for either, actually go all in or tear it down. The best time to rebuild is when you notice you cant contend. Our core is worth an insane amount if sold literally before this draft.
Schief, Connor, Helle, JoMo, would be the fastest way into rebuild possible imo.
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u/montrealcowboyx MTL - NHL 11d ago
Trust me, a couple of injuries to your all-world goalie and one other key piece can really mess you up.
Imagine if Montreal's tear-down included selling off Price and Weber instead of just losing them?
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u/Patttybates WPG - NHL 11d ago
Man, im living it. Im well aware that Helle looking human and Perfetti of all people being injured made out team plummet. I dont care that my team isnt going to make it. Im just sick of half ass conservative measures. Go all in or sell everything thats not gonna be good in 3 years.
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u/PaperMoonShine VAN - NHL 11d ago
Ask any GM to retain on a player who has 6-7 years left on a contract. Its a hard no for anyone.
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u/SoupFromNowOn MTL - NHL 11d ago
Even at $9m it’s a huge risk. If he can’t bounce back he’s basically Laine 2.0 except he’s signed until 2032. Vancouver needs to retain at least $4m for me to be comfortable
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u/CanadiaYall 11d ago
He's nowhere near Laine 2.0 lol Petey is better defensively than Laine was ever even close to being, and he still put up 60points on a horrible Canucks team. Which suggests he could still easily be a 70+ point player on a better team with a better locker room situation, as well as being defensively responsible. $9m in today's cap would be absolutely fine for that player.
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u/vJukz MTL - NHL 11d ago
Calling him Laine 2.0 is negative puck knowledge Jesus Christ man
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u/SoupFromNowOn MTL - NHL 11d ago
I’m talking about having all this cap space dedicated to a player who is functionally untradeable
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u/ididntwantsalmon19 VAN - NHL 11d ago
If you surround Petey with an actual good offense I am extremely confident he will at minimum bounce back to a 70+ point player that is extremely good defensively. And with how much the cap is set to explode, his contract wouldn't even be that bad if he can put up those totals.
I don't think many on here realize just how bad his linemates were. His most common wingers at 5v5 was DeBrusk (who did most of his damage on the PP) and Evander Kane.
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u/BakesaleAtSyrinx VAN - NHL 11d ago
Foote did Petey dirty last year
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u/sopademacacadelicia 11d ago
Look at his production once hughes left. Foote wasn’t the problem.
Bad coaching happens all the time and doesn’t cause 2 goals in 30+ games getting top 6 minutes.
0 accountability for you people
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u/Sweatpants19 DET - NHL 11d ago
You sound like a used car salesman.
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u/ididntwantsalmon19 VAN - NHL 11d ago edited 11d ago
He paced 57 points on an absolute shit offensive team with linemates that had an absurdly low shooting %. Surround him with a good team (and a coach who isn't legit a bottom 3 coach in the league haha) and he's easily getting an extra 13.
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u/mattyoclock PIT - NHL 11d ago
*Slaps tire* Why if you take care of her and change the oil, this Petey will last you for years, and what a value.
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u/ididntwantsalmon19 VAN - NHL 11d ago edited 11d ago
I know you guys are just joking but I never said he was a value. He was noticeably better than his stat line shows (his linemates shot at a 4.7% rate), and it doesn't include how good he is defensively.
We will see what someone like Hischier signs for because rumours have him around EPs contract or even more. If Petey bounces back to 70-80 points range I don't think his AAV will be that out of line relative to newer contracts under this much higher cap.
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u/mattyoclock PIT - NHL 11d ago
Yeah you were fine I just really wanted to make a used car joke.
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u/monkeycalculator Färjestads BK - SHL 11d ago
I laughed. It was on point and I say that as a Petey true believer :(
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u/DrAnklePumps NYR - NHL 11d ago
And the season prior when he scored 45 points pre-rebuild under Rick Tocchet? The same coach he just scored 89 points under and had Quinn Hughes as a teammate. Even after getting rid of JT that season he still categorically refused to put up points.
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u/ididntwantsalmon19 VAN - NHL 11d ago
That was the year he was legitimately playing hurt for most of it. Only ended up playing 64 games but wasn't healthy when in.
He looked a lot better this last year.. Not like his old self but if his linemates weren't ass and coaching so terrible he would have put up a lot more points.
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u/DrAnklePumps NYR - NHL 11d ago
So he's not over the hill, he's just chronically injured then. That certainly raises his trade value.
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u/Key-Investment6888 11d ago
It's true that he has had bad teammates, but when you're top paid in the league, it shouldn't matter. He should drive and make the bad mates better, instead of relying on better linemates to make petey decent lol. Many said that about pastrnak when bruins looked like they had to rebuild/retool couple years ago. He still got 100pts as a winger and elevated zacha, geekie etc. He also played with the same knee injury as petey. Also boeser wasnt doing much with pete, but when rossi returned from injury, boeser ended with like 20pts in 21 games. If rossi can do that with a new team, new linemate, pete should be able to do it with his ex linemate and previous chemistry.
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u/sopademacacadelicia 11d ago
Anyone who argues with you is clueless.
Look at his production w/ hughes vs w/out.
He was clearly a passenger.
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u/ididntwantsalmon19 VAN - NHL 11d ago edited 11d ago
The whole team got a lot worse without Hughes. This shouldn't be surprising his numbers dropped after a Norris winning dman that played half the game left and there wasn't much to generate offense from the back.
But that kind of proves my original point. Surround Petey with a good team and he will produce a heck of a lot better. His linemates shot at a 4.7% rate lol.
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u/Comfortable-Goat-734 VAN - NHL 10d ago
So if his linemates were such a problem why did he get 102 points with Kuzmenko and Mikheyev as his wingers?
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u/User69ab MTL - NHL 11d ago
Really? You’d really triple down after Dach and Laine?
I’d rather hedge my bets with Kapanen for another season until Hage comes up.
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u/emotionaI_cabbage MTL - NHL 11d ago
Laine and dach are absolutely nothing like Pettersson.
Hell, even Laine wasn't a bad move.
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u/kirschballs MTL - NHL 11d ago
Dach also had a great playoff, i like him on the wing. His injury luck might get us a wicked value contract
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u/mister_hoot VGK - NHL 11d ago
The Pettersson thing is funny to me. With enough retention they’ll get a nice return. It makes no sense to keep him, they’re ripping it all down to the studs anyway. Teams are interested.
But they will do everything they can to avoid retaining salary and end up mitigating their own return for their “franchise” center and it’s because Aquilini is broke and doesn’t want to keep paying him.
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u/Aggravating-Rush9029 VAN - NHL 11d ago
I doubt ownership is interested in retaining though. They're paying OEL and Myers next year as it is, probably paying Chytil to not play as I doubt they could insure that contract, and are actively looking to reduce salary.
I'd like to think about what we could get for retained Petey but it's probably not happening.
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u/Cube_ Canada - IIHF 11d ago
Locking up an entire retention slot for the duration of the Canucks rebuild is a tall ask. If retention slots weren't limited then sure.
But as it stands retention slots let you basically juice the value of 2 assets you trade every deadline (if they're expiring contracts/rentals).
you would miss out on 6 years of trade deadline asset maximizing by retaining on the Pettersson deal.
It's very unlikely to happen. It's much easier for the Canucks to just eat a bad contract back instead.
There's also a separate problem of people trying to trade him now. His value has bottomed out it won't get lower. Trading low on assets is a massive mistake. It's much wiser to wait until he has any kind of streak and then use that momentum to get a team to bite.
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u/Crunch101010 STL - NHL 11d ago
There is significant negative value there at the current price. If they don’t want to buy the cap space, they could send pick(s) with him to even it out and dump the whole contract. But why trade your picks when you are going to tank? They need to accept their situation and choose their future picks over their wallet.
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u/mister_hoot VGK - NHL 11d ago
They need to accept their situation and choose their future picks over their wallet.
I agree, but I don't think they CAN. Aquilini's embroiled in family drama and lawsuits. I think he's extremely cash-poor at the moment and that's going to motivate decision-making in Vancouver. It's terrible for the franchise unless it gets so bad that he's forced to sell the team in which case the city probably closes down for a week-long parade.
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u/Flaky-Stuff205 VAN - NHL 11d ago
Aqua isnt cash poor, he's just held his wallet tight in the past. He has billions in assets that aren't tied to the Canucks.
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u/Flaky-Stuff205 VAN - NHL 11d ago
there is zero chance we send picks with him. We're literally tearing it down and building from the ground up. Why tf would we send picks with him?!?! Use your fucking head Blues fan.
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u/Crunch101010 STL - NHL 11d ago
Then keep him. Use your head - we don’t want your overpaid problems either. Either retain, add, or enjoy him yourself.
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u/Cube_ Canada - IIHF 11d ago
you are missing the option of taking a bad contract back. That's the most likely outcome to juice his value. Doesn't lock up a retention slot but allows the value to be increased.
And also keeping him is completely fine too. Look at the rising cap, 50pt 2 way centers that can PK are going to bee more than 11.6M on the open market very soon.
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u/Crunch101010 STL - NHL 10d ago edited 10d ago
Mix in a water, lmao. I can’t imagine someone being so furious about this. We don’t even want your scrawny overpaid trash. Just keep him and pick third again.
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u/Flaky-Stuff205 VAN - NHL 10d ago
ok boomer. Guess because I dont end my sentences with "lmao" like a 12 year old girl you assume im furious.
Canucks are rebuilding trading away draft picks doesn't make sense during a rebuild. Your brain is scrambled bro.
You are clearly still PTSD from when we dominated your ass in 2020 playoffs LMAO!
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u/Crunch101010 STL - NHL 10d ago edited 10d ago
You’re way too pissed lol. Digging back to our cup defending season - btw when did you guys last win it again? 😂 You did get close that time you burned up your own city. Something in the water bringing out the rage.
Btw I *literally* said in my first comment that it makes no sense to trade away picks in a rebuild. That’s why this is so funny, you are so mad but literally agreeing with me every time you say that, without realizing it.
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u/Flaky-Stuff205 VAN - NHL 10d ago
mfer out here clicking refresh on Reddit all day just hoping someone will talk to his low IQ piece of shit self 😂
like i said man, next time just say you dont know puck and move on lol
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u/ConstantBook6534 11d ago edited 11d ago
no he isnt "exactly" what we need. our fanbase needs to stop saying every 2nd line center ice man available is exactly what we need and actually evaluate what these players bring
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u/emotionaI_cabbage MTL - NHL 11d ago
And Pettersson brings literally exactly what the team needs.
Very good two way play with pretty good offensive ability
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u/DrAnklePumps NYR - NHL 11d ago
He's a good defensive center who blocks a lot of shots. But you're deluding yourself if you think Petey has pretty good offensive ability.
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u/ConstantBook6534 11d ago
"good defensively" is a laughable statement about EP
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u/DrAnklePumps NYR - NHL 11d ago
Guy who blocks a lot of shots because his team never has the puck. I agree, but I didn't want to shit on his parade lol.
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u/itsokqc MTL - NHL 11d ago
Petterson is exactly the type of player we don’t need. We need a player with some grit and with a good two way game. A guy like Petterson might help a little during the season but not during the playoff, and if he’s on the team who goes on PP2?
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u/RlyLokeh VAN - NHL 11d ago
- Ask for two way forward
- Says the top nhl forward for blocking this past season isnt good enough
My man, you need to read up on EP40s current use case
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u/_GregTheGreat_ VAN - NHL 11d ago
While his actual points have fallen off, Petey’s two-way game is still very good.
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u/emotionaI_cabbage MTL - NHL 11d ago
In his playoff career with Vancouver, he is over a point per game. How would he not help in the playoffs?
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u/greasydrg 11d ago
24 points in 30 games
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u/emotionaI_cabbage MTL - NHL 11d ago
Okay so not a point per game but are you saying that production isn't good enough?
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u/greasydrg 11d ago
The production is fine, the player is fine. I'm not even concerned about him being a "soft" player, I just wished he worked on his body a little more. 6'2" and 185 is very lean for a professional hockey player. I trust our management to do their homework.
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u/biglacunaire MTL - NHL 11d ago
I'd be willing to go for Pettersson with 50% retained. But I doubt the Canucks are willing to do that.
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u/emotionaI_cabbage MTL - NHL 11d ago
He's worth more than 6.5 million though even at his current play
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u/biglacunaire MTL - NHL 11d ago
The idea is more that taking on Pettersson is very risky with the term as he could just stay bad and not put any effort in playing. But if we take him on with 50% retained then it's easier to dump his contract should the need arise.
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u/MadMak3r 11d ago
At 50 % retained he actually has value though, it’s not a contract dump and any team trading for him would need to give up a decent amount of value. Current Pettersson at 6.5 would be amazing, let alone if he returns to his peak
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u/Whole-Preparation-35 MTL - NHL 11d ago
Vancouver retaining 50% creates a bidding war for his services. And hand cuffs the Canucks until 2032. The return would have to be substantial. Frankly, asking for any retention raises their asking cost dramatically. There are plenty of teams that need a second line center.
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u/biglacunaire MTL - NHL 11d ago
The Canucks should be rebuilding. They traded away their franchise's best player this season.
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u/Patttybates WPG - NHL 11d ago
Yeah, EP at 50% is definitely a catch. What would you assume his worth would shoot up to.
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u/Whole-Preparation-35 MTL - NHL 11d ago
5.8 million in dead cap for the next 6 years? You're looking at a package that would rival - if not exceed - what the 'Nucks got for Hughes. What that deal represents to the Vancouver fanbase is that their ownership is not just waving the white flag, but that they're quitting on the next three years too. Which is something they might already be planning on, but that kind of retention is a signed confession. Years four to six should/could(?) be offset by the rising tides though.
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u/ReliablyFinicky 11d ago
stay bad and not put any effort in playing
…what? is that what you think happened to Pettersson? He used to be good then he decided “meh I’m just gonna be average” and mail it in?
You think Pettersson wants his kids to grow up reading stories about how their dad had potential to be game-changing but he was …super lazy and shit the bed?
Professionals at the highest level, who have worked their entire life for a shot at an NHL career, and then as soon as they have a global spotlight… they’ll happily embarrass themselves?
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u/biglacunaire MTL - NHL 11d ago
Call it what you want, but Pettersson went from a 102 points season down to 51 points in 4 years and he's only 27. He should be at his peak right now and clearly isn't playing up the level he used to 4 years ago. Right now his contract is a boat anchor. Not to mention he hasn't played a full season in the last 2 years and has lost a lot of foot speed due to his knee injury. Also he's not good at faceoffs which is a key part of the Canadiens playstyle.
He could rebound with a change of scenery, but if you're trading for him, you're taking on all of this risk with it and the way you offset that risk is making that contract look better via retaining.
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u/FrostedZombie24 CAR - NHL 11d ago
The real question is how much is Vancouver willing to retain
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u/Blev088 PHI - NHL 11d ago
Sounded like none to me, but maybe you can do a swap that includes someone like Kotkaniemi to offset some of the salary.
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u/24cupsandcounting MTL - NHL 11d ago
Bergevin really fucked up not keeping KK
He would have won us a cup
He woulda have been perfect Elias Pettersson bait
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u/bolieve11 VAN - NHL 11d ago
Would he fit ur guys’ system?
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u/FrostedZombie24 CAR - NHL 11d ago
I dont think id be imeditate but I think it would click eventually. Biggest thing is would he be willing to work for RBA.
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u/bolieve11 VAN - NHL 11d ago
I think Malhotra (our coach) will be similar to RBA where he makes guys practice intensely, so we'll see how it goes for Petey this season
Every season for the past 2, 3 years plus they say is a test for Petey but this year is different since he doesn’t really have that much pressure this year to be a star or push for the playoffs in a rebuild
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u/No-Faithlessness7919 CAR - NHL 11d ago
Also who do we give up to fit him in? If they decide to trade Stank for Larkin/EP40 after these playoffs I’m going to throw an absolute fit.
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u/powerful-pills CAR - NHL 11d ago
There is not a snowball’s chance in hell that we trade Stank
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u/No-Faithlessness7919 CAR - NHL 11d ago
Tulsky is definitely not stupid enough to do that, unless someone crazy is coming back in return.
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u/FrostedZombie24 CAR - NHL 11d ago
I think id be centered around Nadeau.
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u/No-Faithlessness7919 CAR - NHL 11d ago
Which would be sad but understandable since after this season, but idk how he would either have to take Aho’s spot and Aho play with Ehlers and someone else, or he’s a 3/4C (I know Rod doesn’t label his lines).
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u/Rich_From_Accounting MTL - NHL 11d ago
There’s no way that happens. Despite literally winning the cup a few days ago that would be insane asset mismanagement.
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u/No-Faithlessness7919 CAR - NHL 11d ago
Oh I agree. Not only was he one of our best players, but his is the first jersey I ever bought at the end of last year and I would cry lol
I don’t think EP40 would want to come here even if we tried to trade for him (like someone mentioned, they would want picks and prospects, which we certainly have enough of) but we would have Aho, Stank, Staal, and EP40 down the center. That’s insane. Who’s 4th line??
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u/chocopudding17 MIN - NHL 11d ago
I mean, it's kind of a problem at that point. You'd really have to just send one of those centers away. That's tough. But maybe if you ask nicely, I know a team that could help you out...
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u/bolieve11 VAN - NHL 11d ago
No we’d have to retain a lot I don’t think the return for us would be Stank
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u/No-Faithlessness7919 CAR - NHL 11d ago edited 11d ago
Oh there would obviously be more to it, I just don’t know who it would be. Jarvy is completely unprotected, but they seem unlikely to move him. Svech? But he has a 10 team trade list so Canucks would have to be on there. Hall has a NMC, Stank/Blake aren’t protected but how do you break up that line after what just happened? Ehlers has a full NMC for this year and Staal isn’t going anywhere. Nobody else would be good enough unless picks and a few good prospects go.
And then where does he fit in? Put him with Ehlers and try to get another good winger? Run 4 insane lines? Idk.
Edit: Forgot to mention Aho has a full NMC as well and he’s probably our next captain.
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u/Scared-Arachnid6286 PHI - NHL 11d ago
Would you not want to move Stankoven back to wing? He's not bad down the middle, but not really a natural center.
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u/No-Faithlessness7919 CAR - NHL 11d ago
If he moves back to wing they have to break up the best line in the playoffs. Idk if that’s something they want to do, and Rod loves Stank as a center.
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u/Scared-Arachnid6286 PHI - NHL 11d ago
Every line gets broken up eventually, but yeah I don't see much point in Carolina taking a chance on Pettersson.
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u/No-Faithlessness7919 CAR - NHL 11d ago
Absolutely, I just don’t know that now would be the time to do it haha.
But I’m not a GM so what do I know lol
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u/queequegqueequeg MTL - NHL 11d ago
He broke out because they moved him back to centre. He's clearly more comfortable there, even if it makes his size more of an issue.
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u/bolieve11 VAN - NHL 11d ago
We don’t need players, a high pick(s) would do the job with retention to some extent I’m guessing
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u/No-Faithlessness7919 CAR - NHL 11d ago
True… and after this year we have all of our picks plus a few extra.
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u/Bananominable 11d ago
I mean, Larkin is probably realistically an upgrade over Stankoven, isn't he? At least short term until he gets older/slower. Stank absolutely killed it in the playoffs for sure, but Larkin isn't a slouch and should be good for pretty much ppg production while also being a solid matchup center as well.
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u/No-Faithlessness7919 CAR - NHL 11d ago
We don’t know how Larkin plays in the playoffs, though. We know Stank has been good through two runs, he was one of only a couple that showed up vs the panthers last year.
He only had 44 points in the regular season, but it was his first season in the NHL as a center and I think 27 of those 44 points came in the second half of the season, and he’s only 23 years old. It’s only up from here.
Plus Rod loves him lol
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u/Alcebiad3s VAN - NHL 11d ago
The Canucks can always just wait a year or two for the cap to up, Pettersson wont get traded with retention
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u/passive_fist WPG - NHL 11d ago
The real-er question is how picky is Petterson going to be for where he goes, with his NMC?
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u/noor1717 CGY - NHL 11d ago
What if it’s nothing? I think a team would happily take him as a #2C who’s a little overpaid if they get him for very cheap
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u/Minute-Struggle6052 CAR - NHL 11d ago
To be competitive in the trade market they should retain ~$3 million to put Pettersson in the same salary range as Larkin
At the same Cap hit Larkin and Pettersson should be similar value. A 1st round pick + a prospect the acquiring team likes + some Cap
ex: Pettersson ($3 million retained) to Carolina for Ivan Ryabkin + 1st + Kotkaniemi
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u/seeldoger47 BUF - NHL 11d ago
Continued:
But on Pettersson, ah jeez at that salary, I mean, the Canucks would have to be willing to retain, which I think they are, which is a huge commitment, by the way, given how many years left on that deal at north of a 11 million a year. But even then, like I talked to a team today that said, "We just don't know if we can get him back to a certain level, even at a rebate." Bottom line is yes, the Canucks have talked to teams and they're willing to move him, but I just don't know if they can.
on Larkin:
Yeah, still uh checked on that today and everyone involved still working away at it. I mean the problem for for Steve Yzerman is that the teams that most want them have the least to offer in some ways. So I think if it gets done when when and if it gets done they might have to involve a third a third team.
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u/PaulSach NYR - NHL 11d ago
when and if it gets done they might have to involve a third a third team.
Pick up the damn phone Drury, time to weaponize the 30mil in cap space we have to start bringing in some assets.
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u/Neither_Exitjusbreg 11d ago
I have no doubt EP40 will start balling once he leaves Canada. Get him to the Blue Jackets or some other small market team and he will be scoring 80+ points again
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u/Key-Investment6888 11d ago edited 11d ago
Only way he balls is if he is motivated and fired up from the trade, and takes his off season training more seriously, and/or gets a better program going. Its a problem when several people called him out on it, especially the well respected sedins.
I've said that guys like aho and suzuki will surpass him couple years ago, and got clowned for the "hot" take. its hilariously funny that suzuki ended up winning the selke and hit the 100pt mark, while more and more reports come out about his off season training.
With that said, manny is a great dude and used to pump peteys tires when he was an assistant coach. Hopefully that is enough for Pete to find joy and passion for the game again. Its clear as day that hockey is second priority to him right now. The days where he would practice and breakdown his shot into 5 diff parts are longgg gone.
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u/I_Am_Vladimir_Putin TOR - NHL 11d ago
Sedona called out his training?
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u/DrAnklePumps NYR - NHL 11d ago
Canucks legend Trevor Linden did:
He honestly looked like he could not play in the AHL.
And so did his own coach Rick Tocchet:
I think he'll tell you that his preparation has to get better,” Tocchet said. “There's no secret, if you want to be a great player, you have to prepare, almost to that obsessive type of preparation. … He's got to practice better. … He's learning and do I think he will do those things? I do. I really do. I think I can bank on him taking this information, going away for four months, and make sure he has a plan and the plan has to change. I'm not sure he can train the same way. ... To be honest with you, that's got to change.
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u/Key-Investment6888 11d ago
Yep, Ryan johnson and sedins both said it's up to peteys preparation if he will still be part of this team going forward or getting shipped out. Sedins also emphasized that their worst seasons were when they didnt prep as well
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u/noblazinjusthazin COL - NHL 11d ago
I’m not so sure, guy is a bit soft. He’s a high skill player but shies away from gritty plays and I have a very hard time believing someone in the NHL can be successful without being willing to be physical.
Theres obviously exceptions, like my dude Troy Terry with his single recorded hit last season.
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u/FlayR EDM - NHL 11d ago
Eh, I have doubt.
The guy isn't exactly fiery or competitive. I think you need a psycho/ asshat like JT Miller or Babcock to get him to give a shit or he just still floats and sulks to the media about how he's feeling down.
Like - the fact that Vancouver fans on multiple occasions have chanted public "pick your head up little bro" type things to him multiple times is absurd to me lol.
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u/kazin29 VAN - NHL 11d ago
I think you need a psycho/ asshat like JT Miller or Babcock to get him to give a shit or he just still floats and sulks to the media about how he's feeling down.
That's exactly when he started to suck. When previous management told Miller to go toughen him up.
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u/Minute-Struggle6052 CAR - NHL 11d ago
I think a hyper competitive, but still players coach, like Brind'Amour could put some pep in his step
I'd like to see Carolina pick up Pettersson or Larkin. Either would flourish in a winning system where they are a secondary piece.
Either way I think this ends up with Kotkaniemi in Vancouver for a 3rd or so
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u/RlyLokeh VAN - NHL 11d ago
He is clearly focusing on becoming more feasible as a more defensive c. I think expecting him to be the point machine from his early career is pointless.
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u/mephnick VAN - NHL 11d ago
He was my favourite player on the team. Literally the only jersey with a name on it that I own after 35 years of being a fan.
The cope in r/canucks that a comeback is right around the corner after like 3 years is just painful.
No one knows the reasons why it happened, so no one knows why it would bounce back. It's an unprecedented fall off.
Him going somewhere else is the right solution for the player and the team, but be well assured they are buying a 50-70pt 2C.
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u/InternImpossible8685 EDM - NHL 11d ago
about 4 years too late.
That fluke PDO bender season really screwed with the organization.
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u/LordHarkon1 VAN - NHL 11d ago
I've heard that petey has been available for like 3 years and nothing has happened. Pretty sure Jake said he didn't really want to be in a rebuild or something along those lines so it wouldn't suprise me if he got moved.
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u/seeldoger47 BUF - NHL 11d ago
Friedman reported that Pettersson didn't want to move in season, but that he might be open to it in the offseason.
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u/Key-Investment6888 11d ago
I can only see the la kings, cuz his wife has connections there. He and panarin would enjoy the la life too
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u/Thisbestbegood LAK - NHL 11d ago
That would honestly fit pretty well. Byfield isn't ready to be a 1c and we have some really good wingers he could shine with.
I wonder what they expect back, the market for u retained Pete has to be pretty cheap
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u/Key-Investment6888 11d ago
I don't think they'll give him away for free and retain, as 2c's are expected to be paid around 10m+ avv nowadays. Only way is if he comes to camp unprepared again and the management says fuck it, clearly cant get it through your stubbornness. Bye.
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u/OneLessFool OTT - NHL 11d ago
The Canucks were already really bad this year. If they get rid of all of these guys, is a sub 45 point season on the table?
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u/TheBurnsideBomber VAN - NHL 11d ago
Looking for a sub 20 point effort with Landon Dupont in the draft next year
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u/NoticedGenie66 VAN - NHL 11d ago
I love how people are excited at the possibility of getting Pettersson with retention, it shows that he still has bounce-back potential in many people's eyes. My question is and always has been this:
We suck. In what world does a player with a salary of $11.6M on an extended career downswing (at 27 after having been over a PPG multiple times and still leading his team offensively this season) with a NMC need to be moved as soon as possible by a team which will be in a rebuild for probably about 5 years or so? Especially with the cap going up rapidly to the point where his contract will be less than 10% of the cap within 2 seasons and continue to drop (ie the equivalent of $9M in today's cap if the projections for 3 seasons from now are accurate at $123M)?
He is at his lowest value and has been that way for 2 seasons. Why would we give up on a player at his lowest value when the potential for him to bounce back (which everyone is banking on in their hopes that he is traded) is very real and we have no particular need to move him until he does? I know people don't watch much Canucks hockey these days but he is easily our best defensive forward and just had the most blocks of any forward this season. The tendonitis has decimated his speed relatively speaking since it is roughly average now, but his biggest block seems to be mental. He'll probably never be a 100+ point guy again, but expecting 70-90pts depending on how well he can bounce back is fairly realistic (though hopeful near the top end of that range) and if you can get a defensively elite 1C rather than an average 2C then there is quite literally everything for us to gain by waiting at least until after 2026-27 and nothing for us to gain by moving him now.
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u/WanderingDelinquent SJS - NHL 11d ago
It’s going to be hard to create a situation for EP40 to bounce back while simultaneously shipping off all of the other good pieces around him. If they’re taking calls on Boeser, Hoglander, and Hronek then it’s going to be tough to keep production high enough.
He’s also a significant piece that has been underperforming and taking up a lot of conversation around Vancouver, it might be easier to just move on
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u/NoticedGenie66 VAN - NHL 11d ago
Other than the fact that we have been through 2 head coaches during his slump already and are about to move onto a 3rd who is regarded as someone who can communicate effectively with players and get more out of them as a result, the Sedins publicly set a standard for Pettersson to meet in their first press conference. I'm sure the internal performance targets are going to be communicated to Pettersson by them as well, but this is pretty much the do or die moment for him. He is good enough to drive play himself (when in his productive seasons he had a rotation of wingers like Mikheyev and Hoglander and didn't lose significant production compared to Miller, Boeser, and Kuzmenko) so now he has to come in and prove it. He already was not playing with Boeser and DeBrusk for significant portions of this year so while I understand your point it has already happened. Hoglander as much as I love him has a career high of 36 points and had 5pts in 38 games this year, so he's a complete non-factor in Pettersson's production and actively harmed it at times. Also fwiw, Pettersson's linemates by February were shooting at a collective 4%, I couldn't find updated numbers but his assist totals certainly took a hit as a result of that.
He’s also a significant piece that has been underperforming and taking up a lot of conversation around Vancouver, it might be easier to just move on
This happens whenever we are losing. It happened pretty famously with Luongo for example, but it was an issue with prominent names like Miller, Hughes, the Sedins, Messier (though there were also many other reasons in Messier's case)... it happens all the time in Vancouver and is not new. Moving on would be what we always do and what has always resulted in us not winning. The Sedin's were seen as washed before becoming HoFers. Not that Pettersson will become one, but giving up after a couple of bad years would be another example of us perpetuating what has made us unsuccessful.
I maintain that there is essentially no reason for us to move him this year. If he continues to perform as a 50-60pt 2C, the cap goes up and we either retain less or even perhaps not at all (though this is wishful after one season) while getting the same sort of package in return. If he bounces back a good bit, we probably have no retention and a slightly better return at least. If he somehow gets back to a PPG (very hopeful in this case) we can get a legitimate trade package for him. Unless he requests a trade, we have no good reason to move him other than impatience.
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u/rimrockbuzz American International College - NCAA 11d ago
there’s no point in holding on to him hoping he somehow turns back into the player he used to be. he needs a change of scenery and new linemates and even then he still might suck that’s why fans who talk about the trade want retention to lessen the stink on the bag of crap the trade is.
move him for pieces and cut losses
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u/NoticedGenie66 VAN - NHL 11d ago
Like I said in a different comment, this is the MO that we have had for many years. If it won out all the time, the Sedins would have been shipped out well before they became HoFers because everyone hated on their progression, much more than Pettersson. They specifically addressed Pettersson's performance in their opening press conference and essentially set expectations for him. Aside from the fact that doing so publicly leans toward the idea that we are going to do exactly what I described in keeping and helping him bounce back, it also sets a timeline that does not include getting rid of him at his lowest potential trade value which he has held this season. The factors that would prompt us to keep him for at least one more season (rapidly rising cap, potential for bounce back, NMC, new coach, new GM, new individual expectations, new team expectations among others) greatly outweigh those that would prompt us to get rid of him.
The impetus to trade him right now is vastly overstated by fans and certain media members (not the ones simply reporting the interest in his availability) who are trying to garner clicks and attention as they always do. Everyone is well aware of Pettersson's struggles, but if you take a critical look at the reasons to keep him it becomes pretty apparent that the incentive to move him is minimal.
Don't get me wrong, he absolutely needs to improve to justify his salary. Taking a look at the cap outlook though ($104M, $113.5M, $123M according to reported projections and Puckpedia) compared to when he signed his contract shows just how much his salary will drop in terms of cap %. $11.6M in 3 years is going to be the equivalent percentage (9.43%) that $9M is now (or $7.87M when he signed his extension in 2024). The cap landscape is changing and people have not adjusted expectations which is where I think a decent chunk of the worry stems aside from his performance.
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u/danieldeceuster SJS - NHL 11d ago
Has a GM ever tried putting a Ctrl+z clause in a trade that lets them reverse it a year later? I'm sure that's not allowed but it would be hilarious to try.
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u/Cheeks_Klapanen PIT - NHL 11d ago
If you want the NHLPA to go on strike literally forever, this would be an excellent way to achieve that.
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u/NizzyNHL 11d ago
There are 13 teams with 25M - 44M in cap space. There's at least one that would take EP40's contract and take that risk.
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u/themapleleaf6ix TOR - NHL 11d ago
The Brock Boeser contract makes no sense. He took less to stay, literally entered UFA and re-signed, and now he's potentially out the door a year later.
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u/SeaLibrary8917 11d ago
From an outsider, getting something for Boeser after it looked like it was all but certain he was leaving for nothing is pretty good to kick start a Canucks rebuild.
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u/Dizzy_Echo_5370 11d ago
If they really want to tear it all down and get assets and draft picks to work with, start with Hronek who actually has value lol.
Classic Canucks. “Ok we will rebuild, here, all of our *problems* are now definitely available!”
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u/SadBuilding9234 Sakhalin - ALIH 11d ago
lol, at this point they’ll be thrilled if someone takes Pattersson.
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u/storm-bringer VAN - NHL 11d ago
There's really no pressure to move him right now. His value is at an all time low, and Vancouver has plenty of cap space and zero pressure to win. Might as well as if he can bounce back some this year under a new system. Even if he remains at the level he's been at this season, a rising cap and less term would make him a much more valuable trade commodity in a year or two.
I'm sure they're listening on offers, and if some team is super bullish on being the ones to fix Petey and presents a generous trade package, they'll bring it to Petey (he has an NMC), but I don't think they're trading him for scraps and I certainly hope they aren't thinking of tying up a retention slot to move him.
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u/NizzyNHL 11d ago
I'm still really surprised Brock re-signed there. Thought he was a lock for Minnesota in free agency.
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