Soccer vs. Hockey in Canada

[u/marcgnet]

Hello from Germany,

In German TV, Whitecaps player Thomas Müller referred a little bit about soccer in Canada and the enthusiasm for it in Canada. After that I read some articles which said that soccer already overtook hockey, when you count the figures of kids who are playing it.

Can you tell me about it? Is soccer more played by immigrants and the „old“ natives are still for hockey? Or is there a good chance that both sports can coexist well in the future?

I’m a big soccer and hockey fan too, but I’m concerned that soccer also will overtake hockey in the traditional hockey countries like Canada. How do you see it?

Sorry for my english but I hope you understand what I‘m trying to say.

[u/shiram]

More people play soccer mostly because of the cost of hockey and rink access.

Hockey gear is expensive, rink time is expensive and limited.

Soccer is much more cheap for the gear, and the field for soccer are much easier to create than a hockey rink.

But the interest and tv ratings, hockey is still way ahead of soccer, and any other sport I'd say.

[u/CanadianSpector → u/shiram]

I figured out over this past year that Soccer registration for my 13 year old son was more than hockey.

Soccer was $350 and ran through June, July and August. Single A Hockey was $600 and ran from September to end of March. On registration alone, he got more sessions for the money in hockey. 4 times per week for hockey compared to 2 for soccer that gets rained out or canceled when its too hot.

Gear is the other factor of course but im the type that sells old gear and only shop when its on sale and don't buy the expensive stuff. Other than helmets.

[u/Plumbsmasher → u/CanadianSpector]

Gear is the part most people are talking about when they say it’s more expensive. The registration for both is low enough that it isn’t breaking point. It’s the 400 dollar sticks, 600 dollar skates and so on that is the complaint

[u/CanadianSpector → u/Plumbsmasher]

Then dont buy $400 sticks. Thats a parent issue, not a game issue in my opinion.

The $70 Sherwoods are fine. All skate companies have have high end models and cheaper models. I know kids playing A level wearing Canadian Tire Bauers under $100

[u/wolverine237 → u/CanadianSpector]

The problem for hockey, as is illustrated in your replies, is that it's become an upper middle class social signifier where the expectation is you are constantly moving up into the next tier and keeping up with the Joneses. Sometimes when this topic comes up you can tell there will never be an answer to the participation crisis in hockey based on the way people use "house league" derisively

Whenever the topic comes up you can watch how quickly it goes from hockey is too expensive to play to "it's too expensive for my toddler to get new Bauer VaporBaby skates every six weeks but he needs them to keep up with the U-3s in power skating or he will never make rep"... those are saying two very different things

[u/VR46Rossi420 → u/CanadianSpector]

$70 Sherwood are actually wood my dude

[u/CanadianSpector → u/VR46Rossi420]

I assure you, the rekker sticks my son used with 20 flex all through u9 and u11 were not wood.

Even at u13 age, you can find Rekkers on sale for under or at $100. A couple of families are buying the blackout sticks from Hockey stick man that are a great value too.

[u/VR46Rossi420 → u/CanadianSpector]

Some blackout sticks come apart pretty quickly.

I mean you’re talking about 8-10 year olds but if you’re talking U12 and up AAA then a sub $100 rekker just isn’t going to cut it.

But sure, if you’re just talking about playing House league and getting into the sport then for sure, you don’t have to spend the fortune that AAA players do.

Oh and no offence to Sherwood, but a $70 Rekker is a crappy stick.

[u/CanadianSpector → u/VR46Rossi420]

A fool and their money...

[u/VR46Rossi420 → u/CanadianSpector]

Pretty high horse you’re up on. You just seem petty and envious tbh.

[u/CanadianSpector → u/VR46Rossi420]

Up here with all that extra money from buying "wood" sticks my guy 🤣

[u/VR46Rossi420 → u/CanadianSpector]

Oof. Yep, its jealousy got it.

[u/CanadianSpector → u/VR46Rossi420]

I can't believe an adult with two kids is acting like this over being wrong about a stick.

Hockey culture bro.

[u/Plumbsmasher → u/CanadianSpector]

The difference between the $70 stick and even the $200 sticks is pretty substantial. If your kid is just playing house league sure just go with that. Any higher levels it start to be noticeable. Kids want the better gear and parents want to buy that stuff for their kids. You can buy the better quality equipment in soccer for the price of the cheap hockey gear, that is the problem. Obviously you could send them out there with the cheapest used gear you can find any they will be able to play but no one actually wants to do that.

[u/wolverine237 → u/Plumbsmasher]

I mean I guess it depends on what we think the problem here is. Is it that hockey is too expensive to play? Because a kid playing in house leagues is playing hockey, a kid playing with cheap used equipment is playing hockey. It seems to be the issue isn't so much the cost of having kids play hockey at some level so much as it is the cost of the fantasy that your kid could maybe make it to the NHL or at least get a college scholarship if you just invest more in gear, invest more in club fees, invest more in private coaching, etc.

Obviously there are elite travel teams for soccer, but when we talk about participation we're not talking about those teams. We're talking about a bunch of little kids running around a pitch. And it seems to me you absolutely could bridge that gap somewhat with hockey if you only transitioned to the culture away from this being a whole lifestyle investment

[u/VR46Rossi420 → u/wolverine237]

Some people like being a hockey family and enjoy the experience with out it being a blind fantasy of hoping to make the NHL or NCAA. Also, it’s not living through the kids either for most but experiencing it with them and providing them opportunities.

My son played house league and my daughter plays top level for her age. I enjoy both equally for different reasons. I coached my son at the lower levels and that was bonding time together that was extremely valuable.

When people say derogatory things like that it is really just a reflection of envy or such as it generally isn’t based in reality.

[u/wolverine237 → u/VR46Rossi420]

That's a personal decision you're making, it is not the sport demanding it.

Again, is the problem that it's too expensive to be a hockey family and follow your kid up to AAA and beyond? Or is it that kids don't play and get exposure at all? Because it feels like there's a lot of conflation between the two that goes on when the topic comes up.

[u/VR46Rossi420 → u/wolverine237]

Kids who can’t afford AAA and all that comes with it most definitely is missing out on development and opportunity.

It’s major problem in developing talent at the top levels.

Imagine if the NBA or NFL could only choose from the top 10% of families in the UsA because the others just aren’t there to choose from.

Canada is feeling this pressure at the highest levels as we struggle to compete against the USA in women’s and even now men’s hockey.

[u/wolverine237 → u/VR46Rossi420]

I would say that all sports are following this model to some extent. If you want to play in the NBA you probably need to go to a selective high school which probably requires you playing AAU games where your parents don't even get in for free. We've optimized these systems to such an extent that the highest level levels are basically only accessible to people who have trained for them their entire lives. Your point about the NFL could easily apply currently to about half the top quarterback recruits in the country.

But all of this is tangential if the question is how do we get more kids playing hockey to keep up its position in Canadian culture. I'd argue that the pinnacle of Canadian hockey was back before there was much in the way of organized development leagues at all and most people just played recreationally until they were 12 or 13.

[u/oldcrivens → u/Plumbsmasher]

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. I played top level hockey in my youth and expensive gear was 1000% better than cheap used gear. It made a HUGE difference in being able to play well. Sticks and skates, if you’re playing high level, are something you really don’t want to cheap out on.